MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 What is it I'm hearing about British electrical safety standards being superior to those found in the United States or Canada. Take a look at . A commenter posted "I'm pretty certain that doesn't meet British safety standards, oh wait..", another person proceeded to comment "f*ck america with their stupid unsafe plugs". The problem showcased in the video turned out to be a shared ground connection that was dispersing a crapload of stray voltage from some appliance elsewhere up the line on the circuit. The room that they are in looks like a utility room of sorts with HVAC equipment audible in the background, so that explains the reason for their problem. I have heard things about BS 1363 (the UK's official mains power plug) being declared the safest in the world. A good portion of this website's members live in the United Kingdom, so perhaps someone who actually lives there can fill me in on this small internet phenomena. I do know that plugs are required by law to be fitted with sometimes replaceable fuses of a certain amperage rating depending on the thickness of the wiring used in the power cord. It is also to my understanding that the electrical code mandates that in addition to the traditional circuit breaker protection and residual current device (GFCI variant) protection in damp areas. The purpose of this thread is provide a medium for others to express their opinions regarding the issue. Every effort has been made by me to ensure it's worthiness on the Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Electrical wiring code, just what every GTA fan registered on these forums to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Electrical wiring code, just what every GTA fan registered on these forums to talk about. This thread is in the best suited subforum for non-GTA related chat. Soon I'm gonna be taking an electrical apprenticeship course for work in new building construction. This is one of my interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crokey Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 ...so perhaps someone who actually lives there can fill me in on this small internet phenomena. Wow, you mean the 13amp British Plug is an small Internet Phenomena, and not the standard plug we've been using to power our electrical devices since the 40's... well you learn something new everyday. But to answer your query in regards to fuses, they are required as they link the live wire to the live pin, so without the fuse to complete the circuit then you don't have elastic trickery. A simple search of a 13amp wiring diagram on google will show that. In all electrical installations in the UK regardless location and premises are required to have a main circuit breaker, incomer and main fuse box, which are all required to be wired in single phase (or at least 3 phase in larger premises which require more industrial or commercial power mainly entertainment venues and factories) The UK plug however is safer than the US plus for two simple reasons, the earth pin is longer than the live and neutral and the live and neutral have a collar on them so you can't accidentally touch them when inserting a plug. This earth pin also is used to open a shutter for the live and neutral to reduce the risk of electrical shock on the socket. I know this from years of working with electrical equipment not just 13amp, but 5, 15, 16, 32, 64, 125amp etc etc etc, but Wiki is your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 ...so perhaps someone who actually lives there can fill me in on this small internet phenomena. Wow, you mean the 13amp British Plug is an small Internet Phenomena, and not the standard plug we've been using to power our electrical devices since the 40's... well you learn something new everyday. But to answer your query in regards to fuses, they are required as they link the live wire to the live pin, so without the fuse to complete the circuit then you don't have elastic trickery. A simple search of a 13amp wiring diagram on google will show that. In all electrical installations in the UK regardless location and premises are required to have a main circuit breaker, incomer and main fuse box, which are all required to be wired in single phase (or at least 3 phase in larger premises which require more industrial or commercial power mainly entertainment venues and factories) The UK plug however is safer than the US plus for two simple reasons, the earth pin is longer than the live and neutral and the live and neutral have a collar on them so you can't accidentally touch them when inserting a plug. This earth pin also is used to open a shutter for the live and neutral to reduce the risk of electrical shock on the socket. I know this from years of working with electrical equipment not just 13amp, but 5, 15, 16, 32, 64, 125amp etc etc etc, but Wiki is your friend The standard plug that you've been using since the 1940s? Are you talking about BS 1363 (post WWII) or BS 546 (pre WWII)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenline Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I was really shocked to see you post another thread about electricity. Watt are you trying to achieve my making these threads? Maybe you should pull the plug on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 I was really shocked to see you post another thread about electricity. Watt are you trying to achieve my making these threads? Maybe you should pull the plug on this thread. It's my hobby and it's my passion. That's what it is. I know how not to get shocked, I know how to properly wire outlet receptacles and light switches. As for pulling the plug, I don't think so. Sorry. Good jokes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crokey Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The standard plug that you've been using since the 1940s? Are you talking about BS 1363 (post WWII) or BS 546 (pre WWII)? Well to put it your terms the BS1363... although nobody in the UK, not even Sparkies (Electricians), wholesalers or manufacturers refer to it as that in general parlance. It's always referred to as a 13 Amp plug. The BS 546 you refer to is a either a 2amp, 5amp or 15amp variant, and as such are refereed to as such again like the 13amp. The 2amp and 5amp are not used anymore and should have been replaced in any premises that have had them installed as if memory serves me right are now illegal. The 15amp however still gets used today widely in the entertainment sector more specifically with lighting, however this is slowly getting replaced and switched over the safer 16amp Cee-Form plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 People have always bragged on the internet about why the North American plugs are inferior. That is the purpose of this thread, to debate why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwalker83 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Electrical wiring code, just what every GTA fan registered on these forums to talk about. Well, this is chit-chat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrinPA Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 If this was just about American, I'd be able to discuss it because I'm familiar with it. But I don't know much about the British side of things. I have heard that American power at 60hz is more noisey for musicans than in other countries, not sure if it's true. But I know it's quite a problem here, my friend owned a recording studio and spent over $2,000 on a custom made Monster Power supply filter. I just accept the hum on my amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
na89340qv0n34b09q340 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Could have went in the question topic. Generally if you're not asking a philosophical question, or a question that would generate a lot of discussion/different opinions it belongs in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crokey Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 People have always bragged on the internet about why the North American plugs are inferior. That is the purpose of this thread, to debate why. The US Plug has thin pins which are prone to getting bent easily and the readjustment of which leads to metal fatigue. The UK plug is thick and therefore not liable to bend as easy without possibly destroying the whole plug. The safety gate on the socket is also the major plus point to the UK plug, as the earth pin which is longer will open up the gates for the live and neutral pins, and with the added "collar" on the live and neutral reducing the risk of fingers accidentally touching them during insertion which is already limited due to the ergonomics of the plug. The fuse added into the mix is also a plus point, for reasons you should already know. If this was just about American, I'd be able to discuss it because I'm familiar with it. But I don't know much about the British side of things. I have heard that American power at 60hz is more noisey for musicans than in other countries, not sure if it's true. But I know it's quite a problem here, my friend owned a recording studio and spent over $2,000 on a custom made Monster Power supply filter. I just accept the hum on my amps. Power Conditioners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 People have always bragged on the internet about why the North American plugs are inferior. That is the purpose of this thread, to debate why. The US Plug has thin pins which are prone to getting bent easily and the readjustment of which leads to metal fatigue. The UK plug is thick and therefore not liable to bend as easy without possibly destroying the whole plug. The safety gate on the socket is also the major plus point to the UK plug, as the earth pin which is longer will open up the gates for the live and neutral pins, and with the added "collar" on the live and neutral reducing the risk of fingers accidentally touching them during insertion which is already limited due to the ergonomics of the plug. The fuse added into the mix is also a plus point, for reasons you should already know. If this was just about American, I'd be able to discuss it because I'm familiar with it. But I don't know much about the British side of things. I have heard that American power at 60hz is more noisey for musicans than in other countries, not sure if it's true. But I know it's quite a problem here, my friend owned a recording studio and spent over $2,000 on a custom made Monster Power supply filter. I just accept the hum on my amps. Power Conditioners Another problem is that North American plugs are slightly more difficult to replace. Most people don't bother doing this because the Western World, even the UK, and especially Canada lives in a society where everything broken is thrown out and either thrown in a landfill for 1,000 years or given to a third world country where people make themselves ill trying to salvage heavy metals from PCBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly luggage Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 In that video a circuit breaker should of done it's job and shut off power. I don't like using US wall sockets because they're always on and many don't even have an earth slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 In that video a circuit breaker should of done it's job and shut off power. I don't like using US wall sockets because they're always on and many don't even have an earth slot. No, it shouldn't. The voltage comes from a high power line and down the ground. A ground fault would have tripped on this, but this current doesn't pass through the breaker, so a breaker won't do anything. Prior to filing a bug against any of my code, please consider this response to common concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 In that video a circuit breaker should of done it's job and shut off power. I don't like using US wall sockets because they're always on and many don't even have an earth slot. No, it shouldn't. The voltage comes from a high power line and down the ground. A ground fault would have tripped on this, but this current doesn't pass through the breaker, so a breaker won't do anything. That reminds me, I'm installing GFCI in my upstairs bathroom right now. My house was built in 1992 and apparently the Canadian Electrical Code, circa 1990 which it conforms to didn't have the requirement for GFCIs in multiple bathrooms. That is, according to an electrician who I sought help from. I can swear both the CEC and enforcement of it is like something out of the Wild West. A wall socket in my school which was built in the year f*cking 2000 lacks ground (earth pin) continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Yeah, I'm pretty sure they only inspect the new houses around here as well. The previous apartment complex I lived in, my then girlfriend asked me to put bathroom fan and lights on separate switches instead of the same one. Things I found behind the old switch... Ground wasn't connected, there was an exposed live wire in there, and worst of all, the light and fan were on the live side of the switch. I had to check that one several times, because I just couldn't believe anyone would do something that stupid. Especially in a bathroom. Wet floor while you are changing a bulb and you're a corpse. Unfortunately, also the one thing I wasn't able to fix. Well, at least I left it better than I found it. Place I live at now is better. Definitely not everything is up to the code, but at least it's relatively safe. A couple of outlets need replacing. Maybe I'll flip them while I'm at it. Prior to filing a bug against any of my code, please consider this response to common concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrinPA Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The safety gate on the socket is also the major plus point to the UK plug, as the earth pin which is longer will open up the gates for the live and neutral pins, and with the added "collar" on the live and neutral reducing the risk of fingers accidentally touching them during insertion which is already limited due to the ergonomics of the plug. The fuse added into the mix is also a plus point, for reasons you should already know. So everything is grounded [three pins] in the UK? More often than not, most electronics do not have a third ground pin in America. Even my computer doesn't. Power Conditioners Thanks, the name slipped my mind . The one I mentioned before supposedly turned the AC to DC to eliminate the cycle hum. I didn't know that DC wouldn't mess up AC circuits. Maybe I just misunderstood something. Another problem is that North American plugs are slightly more difficult to replace. Most people don't bother doing this because the Western World, even the UK, and especially Canada lives in a society where everything broken is thrown out and either thrown in a landfill for 1,000 years or given to a third world country where people make themselves ill trying to salvage heavy metals from PCBs. It's either impossible to find somebody who knows how to fix something, or it cost just as much as buying new again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn 7 five 11 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 [ Another problem is that North American plugs are slightly more difficult to replace. Most people don't bother doing this because the Western World, even the UK, and especially Canada lives in a society where everything broken is thrown out and either thrown in a landfill for 1,000 years or given to a third world country where people make themselves ill trying to salvage heavy metals from PCBs. Don't you just cut the end Off another plug, match up the wires and tape it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crokey Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The safety gate on the socket is also the major plus point to the UK plug, as the earth pin which is longer will open up the gates for the live and neutral pins, and with the added "collar" on the live and neutral reducing the risk of fingers accidentally touching them during insertion which is already limited due to the ergonomics of the plug. The fuse added into the mix is also a plus point, for reasons you should already know. So everything is grounded [three pins] in the UK? More often than not, most electronics do not have a third ground pin in America. Even my computer doesn't. Pretty much so apart from some electrical equipment (usually your 'black' goods like Hi-Fi's, Radio, some computer equipment, your usual Made In China stuff) which is double insulated, you can tell as it will have a square within a square embossed on the voltage stamp/label on the equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 [ Another problem is that North American plugs are slightly more difficult to replace. Most people don't bother doing this because the Western World, even the UK, and especially Canada lives in a society where everything broken is thrown out and either thrown in a landfill for 1,000 years or given to a third world country where people make themselves ill trying to salvage heavy metals from PCBs. Don't you just cut the end Off another plug, match up the wires and tape it on? If it's not in there nice and tight, it's not particularly safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn 7 five 11 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 [ Another problem is that North American plugs are slightly more difficult to replace. Most people don't bother doing this because the Western World, even the UK, and especially Canada lives in a society where everything broken is thrown out and either thrown in a landfill for 1,000 years or given to a third world country where people make themselves ill trying to salvage heavy metals from PCBs. Don't you just cut the end Off another plug, match up the wires and tape it on? If it's not in there nice and tight, it's not particularly safe. Safety Schmafety, getting electrocuted adds character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Traffic Cop Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The plugs in this country are not a good thing, they are a very bad thing. It protects stupid people from killing themselves... therefore keeping idiots alive in the British gene pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil weasel Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The plugs in this country are not a good thing, they are a very bad thing.It protects stupid people from killing themselves... therefore keeping idiots alive in the British gene pool That can be said of most 'safety devices'. Look at how the Automobile Seat Belt allows crazy drivers to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 [ Another problem is that North American plugs are slightly more difficult to replace. Most people don't bother doing this because the Western World, even the UK, and especially Canada lives in a society where everything broken is thrown out and either thrown in a landfill for 1,000 years or given to a third world country where people make themselves ill trying to salvage heavy metals from PCBs. Don't you just cut the end Off another plug, match up the wires and tape it on? If it's not in there nice and tight, it's not particularly safe. Safety Schmafety, getting electrocuted adds character. Loose connections also create resistance which create heat, which will in turn create fire hazards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) A couple of outlets need replacing. Maybe I'll flip them while I'm at it. Most hardware stores sell 10 amp residential use receptacles for 99 cents plus tax. Installation is usually a breeze for me. The only struggle for me is using wire strippers. Use the wire nuts for making connections, not the holes in the back. The holes in the back will sometimes create loose, high resistance connections which can create fire hazards depending on current draw. EDIT: Sorry for the two-in-a-row post. I needed to give him some safety advice. Edited September 18, 2012 by MIKON8ERISBACK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTA_stu Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 EDIT: Sorry for the two-in-a-row post. I needed to give him some safety advice. "The edit button? There's no time! We've got lives to save here people!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
na89340qv0n34b09q340 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 A couple of outlets need replacing. Maybe I'll flip them while I'm at it. Most hardware stores sell 10 amp residential use receptacles for 99 cents plus tax. Installation is usually a breeze for me. The only struggle for me is using wire strippers. Use the wire nuts for making connections, not the holes in the back. The holes in the back will sometimes create loose, high resistance connections which can create fire hazards depending on current draw. EDIT: Sorry for the two-in-a-row post. I needed to give him some safety advice. But he's a physicist! I'm sure he knows where to get outlets, and how to safely install them, and you just c&p'd your other post over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 A couple of outlets need replacing. Maybe I'll flip them while I'm at it. Most hardware stores sell 10 amp residential use receptacles for 99 cents plus tax. Installation is usually a breeze for me. The only struggle for me is using wire strippers. Use the wire nuts for making connections, not the holes in the back. The holes in the back will sometimes create loose, high resistance connections which can create fire hazards depending on current draw. EDIT: Sorry for the two-in-a-row post. I needed to give him some safety advice. But he's a physicist! I'm sure he knows where to get outlets, and how to safely install them, and you just c&p'd your other post over. I actually suck with math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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