did Diaz planed to kill Tommy before he betrayed?

[skyfamster]

before he died ,he said"I should have you made" what does this mean?

I should have you killed ?

or

I should have you promoted?

[MrMateczko]

Knowing that Diaz attempted to kill Lance, he would obviously kill Tommy.

Diaz was so selfish, he wanted to kill every enemy in his sight.

[ZoomZoom]

Probably yes after he have done all the dirty work Diaz would have killed Tommy...But Tommy got him first...

 

[skyfamster]

Diaz was so selfish, he wanted to kill every enemy in his sight.

maybe, but He said he trusted Tommy,also Tommy is that kind of player he always expect.

[ZoomZoom]

Diaz was so selfish, he wanted to kill every enemy in his sight.

maybe, but He said he trusted Tommy,also Tommy is that kind of player he always expect.

That is just acting man giving hima lot of money for those dirty work and making him to trust Diaz but in the end :bang:

[skyfamster]

Diaz was so selfish, he wanted to kill every enemy in his sight.

maybe, but He said he trusted Tommy,also Tommy is that kind of player he always expect.

That is just acting man giving hima lot of money for those dirty work and making him to trust Diaz but in the end :bang:

I think R* uses Diaz mouth to build character Tommy as a tough ,capable,gutsy guy.

So,I think his kind words of Tommy is from his heart, not just some acompliment.

[MyDog]

Diaz was so selfish, he wanted to kill every enemy in his sight.

maybe, but He said he trusted Tommy,also Tommy is that kind of player he always expect.

That is just acting man giving hima lot of money for those dirty work and making him to trust Diaz but in the end :bang:

I think R* uses Diaz mouth to build character Tommy as a tough ,capable,gutsy guy.

So,I think his kind words of Tommy is from his heart, not just some acompliment.

Why the hell would a guy like Diaz take a honest liking to a disposable pawn (from his POV) such as Tommy?

[skyfamster]

 

Why the hell would a guy like Diaz take a honest liking to a disposable pawn (from his POV) such as Tommy?

Diaz's other employees are too weak.

I think if lance havn't attacked him, Tommy would cover himself well，and be regarded highly by Diaz

every boss in VC like Tommy boy

This is the typical way R* compliment the gamers ,R* makes us think we're the most popular tough guy like tommy,niko etc。。。

[MyDog]

Why the hell would a guy like Diaz take a honest liking to a disposable pawn (from his POV) such as Tommy?

Diaz's other employees are too weak.

I think if lance havn't attacked him, Tommy would cover himself well，and be regarded highly by Diaz

every boss in VC like Tommy boy

This is the typical way R* compliment the gamers ,R* makes us think we're the most popular tough guy like tommy,niko etc。。。

Diaz may have respected Tommy's ability to get a job done, but that's as far as it goes. Diaz is a sociopath. Most crime bosses are sociopaths, otherwise they couldn't murder and have people murdered with no remorse.

[Gareth Alan Willmer]

 

before he died ,he said"I should have you made" what does this mean?

I should have you killed ?

or

I should  have you promoted?

Fact In the mission Death Row where you rescue lance Kent Paul clearly states that Lance Vance tried to jump diaz. Had Lance of not done this then tommy wouldnt of had to rescue lance and kill diaz sooner

 

 

 

 

Fact 2 Diaz did not want to kill tommy and had him made like diaz clearly said in the next mission rub out

 

 

It was Lance Vance that caused the problems and who forced Tommy to take out diaz. Lance always was a stupid prick.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Gareth Alan Willmer

[Nukey Shay]

BTW it's "I could have had you made!"

 

Which is unlikely, because Diaz was just a pawn to Sonny anyway. Diaz would have little influence if Tommy was to become a made man within the mob.

[MyDog]

BTW it's "I could have had you made!"

 

Which is unlikely, because Diaz was just a pawn to Sonny anyway. Diaz would have little influence if Tommy was to become a made man within the mob.

Pawn to Sonny? What are you talking about? They didn't even know each other. Diaz was Vice City's most powerful drug lord, he was the one responsible for the deal ambush.

[ZoomZoom]

Lance always was a stupid prick.

Now that is true...But I still think Diaz would have killed Tommy after all the dirty work was done.

[Nukey Shay]

Pawn to Sonny? What are you talking about? They didn't even know each other. Diaz was Vice City's most powerful drug lord, he was the one responsible for the deal ambush.

"Pawn" in the sense that he wanted Diaz replaced with his own man (explained in the intro beginning)...thus controlling the drug trade in VC. That was the whole reason for Tommy to be there at all.

 

And it's pretty evident that there was no "ambush", per se. The whole thing was a setup from Sonny from the get-go (to make Tommy believe that it was Diaz...providing the motivation for Tommy to go after him). The money and the drugs involved in the deal are sitting right in Sonny's office when Tommy calls him from the hotel. Also notice that Sonny is alone in the office at the time, which suggests that nobody else from the intro cutscene knew about the setup. All anyone would know is that Tommy was responsible for "losing" both.

[MyDog]

Pawn to Sonny? What are you talking about? They didn't even know each other. Diaz was Vice City's most powerful drug lord, he was the one responsible for the deal ambush.

"Pawn" in the sense that he wanted Diaz replaced with his own man (explained in the intro beginning)...thus controlling the drug trade in VC. That was the whole reason for Tommy to be there at all.

 

And it's pretty evident that there was no "ambush", per se. The whole thing was a setup from Sonny from the get-go (to make Tommy believe that it was Diaz...providing the motivation for Tommy to go after him). The money and the drugs involved in the deal are sitting right in Sonny's office when Tommy calls him from the hotel. Also notice that Sonny is alone in the office at the time, which suggests that nobody else from the intro cutscene knew about the setup. All anyone would know is that Tommy was responsible for "losing" both.

Actually no. The deal was set up by Cortez, whose right hand man Gonzalez gave information to Diaz about it. That led Diaz to ambush the deal, and later Tommy to kill Gonzalez.

[Nukey Shay]

The doublecross was the real deal.

 

Proof is in the picture...both the money and drugs are in Sonny's office right after the massacre. Do you have an explaination of how they got there if Diaz set up an ambush to take them? As you posted, they didn't know each other.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Nukey Shay

[MyDog]

So just because Sonny has money on his table means that it's the same money he used to conduct the deal? No. He's a Mafia boss. He has lots of cash.

[Mr_Leone]

Diaz was a self absorbed idiot. Most likely, he'd rather die then give up power!

[Nukey Shay]

So just because Sonny has money on his table means that it's the same money he used to conduct the deal? No. He's a Mafia boss. He has lots of cash.

LOL

 

Of course we know this even without the visual aid.

 

So why are they there? They weren't in the previous cutscene before the event.

[MyDog]

So just because Sonny has money on his table means that it's the same money he used to conduct the deal? No. He's a Mafia boss. He has lots of cash.

LOL

 

Of course we know this even without the visual aid.

 

So why are they there? They weren't in the previous cutscene before the event.

The previous cutscene happened at least several hours before the An Old Friend cutscene. I say at least because you can make it as long as you like. Maybe it was the end of the week and Sonny's capos were bringing him his cut. Maybe it was from another drug deal. It's not known. What is known is that it was Diaz who botched the deal, not Sonny. It doesn't even make sense to try to get into the drug trade of Vice City then decide to keep both money and the drugs right at the first trade. No-one would do business with him after that.

[Nukey Shay]

You mean just as it makes no sense for R* to place those objects there in the first place? With Sonny sitting alone looking pleased with himself just waiting for the telephone to ring (because he knows who it will be)? He's got his investment back, plus the merchandise (minus whatever he cut from it to provide false clues for Tommy to follow). Best yet, he's got Tommy totally under his thumb for a minimum of bloodshed. House wins - 3:1

 

From your POV, You can feel a bit of sympathy for Sonny (hey - Tommy lost all of his money he lent to him). From my POV, he's a doublecrossing prick that deserved his end.

 

BTW I don't know how much time passes between the first cutscene and the deal that late afternoon (liked you mentioned...it could be a week or more), but it's well into the small hours by the time Tommy speaks to him (9pm + the drive to Ocean View). Plenty of time for the shooters to get the stuff to L.C. One of the guys in the first cutscene mentioned that the family won't touch drugs...so it otherwise seems out-of-place for it to be there at all, eh?

 

Time to agree to disagree. At least I gave you something else to think about.

[MyDog]

 

You mean just as it makes no sense for R* to place those objects there in the first place?  With Sonny sitting alone looking pleased with himself just waiting for the telephone to ring (because he knows who it will be)?  He's got his investment back, plus the merchandise (minus whatever he cut from it to provide false clues for Tommy to follow).  Best yet, he's got Tommy totally under his thumb for a minimum of bloodshed.  House wins - 3:1

 

From your POV, You can feel a bit of sympathy for Sonny (hey - Tommy lost all of his money he lent to him).  From my POV, he's a doublecrossing prick that deserved his end.

 

BTW I don't know how much time passes between the first cutscene and the deal that late afternoon (liked you mentioned...it could be a week or more), but it's well into the small hours by the time Tommy speaks to him (9pm + the drive to Ocean View).  Plenty of time for the shooters to get the stuff to L.C.  One of the guys in the first cutscene mentioned that the family won't touch drugs...so it otherwise seems out-of-place for it to be there at all, eh?

 

Time to agree to disagree.  At least I gave you something else to think about.

1. He was waiting for the phone to ring because he expected the deal to be done.

 

2. I don't feel sympathy for Sonny.

 

3. What the blond guy says is that the families won't touch drugs, referring to the other families in LC. He was pointing out that should Forellis go into drugs, it may cause problems with the other families because they weren't dealing drugs.

 

I watched the cutscene one more time and it seems that Sonny was planning to send Tommy down to VC to work drugs in the city. With the Harwood butcher reputation, Sonny didn't want to keep Tommy in LC. The dialogue goes:

 

Sonny: We treat him like an old friend and keep him busy out of town. OK? We been talking about expanding down South, right? Vice City is twenty-four carat gold these days. The Colombians, the Mexicans, hell, even those Cuban refugees are cutting themselves a piece of some nice action.

 

Here he obviously says that he wants to send Tommy to expand the business down in Vice City.

 

Sonny: We don't need him to. We just set him loose in Vice City, we give him a little cash to get started. OK? Give it a few months. Then we go down, pay him a little visit, right? See how he's doing.

 

There, he said that they wouldn't need Ken to hold Vercetti's leash, but let Tommy loose in Vice City. They would give him some cash to get started, and then after a few months they would come and see how the business is going.

 

So basically, you can clearly see that Sonny is discussing expanding business down in Vice City, where Tommy would be his representative. He's discussing this with his top men, obviously, as a boss of the family wouldn't exactly have a meeting with regular made men. They're not exactly people Sonny would hide such a thing from.

 

So we come to a conclusion. Sonny was planning to send Tommy to be his drug dealing representative in Vice City, however traitorous Gonzalez said everything to Diaz, who then botched the deal and stole both money and drugs.

 

PS. I don't know where you won 3-1? I beat your every argument.

[Zee]

Pawn to Sonny? What are you talking about? They didn't even know each other. Diaz was Vice City's most powerful drug lord, he was the one responsible for the deal ambush.

"Pawn" in the sense that he wanted Diaz replaced with his own man (explained in the intro beginning)...thus controlling the drug trade in VC. That was the whole reason for Tommy to be there at all.

 

And it's pretty evident that there was no "ambush", per se. The whole thing was a setup from Sonny from the get-go (to make Tommy believe that it was Diaz...providing the motivation for Tommy to go after him). The money and the drugs involved in the deal are sitting right in Sonny's office when Tommy calls him from the hotel. Also notice that Sonny is alone in the office at the time, which suggests that nobody else from the intro cutscene knew about the setup. All anyone would know is that Tommy was responsible for "losing" both.

Interesting. While This isnt the official interpretation, but I wouldnt be surprised if there is some truth to this.

[MyDog]

Pawn to Sonny? What are you talking about? They didn't even know each other. Diaz was Vice City's most powerful drug lord, he was the one responsible for the deal ambush.

"Pawn" in the sense that he wanted Diaz replaced with his own man (explained in the intro beginning)...thus controlling the drug trade in VC. That was the whole reason for Tommy to be there at all.

 

And it's pretty evident that there was no "ambush", per se. The whole thing was a setup from Sonny from the get-go (to make Tommy believe that it was Diaz...providing the motivation for Tommy to go after him). The money and the drugs involved in the deal are sitting right in Sonny's office when Tommy calls him from the hotel. Also notice that Sonny is alone in the office at the time, which suggests that nobody else from the intro cutscene knew about the setup. All anyone would know is that Tommy was responsible for "losing" both.

Interesting. While This isnt the official interpretation, but I wouldnt be surprised if there is some truth to this.

All facts taken into consideration, it doesn't make any sense that Sonny would do it himself.

[Nukey Shay]

He stands to come out ahead 3:1 on his "investment" (pardon your misinterpretation of what I meant by that ratio). So yes, it does make sense that he'd do it. There's no other reason why the table is full of drugs. He's not going to be peddling it around LC, and he never sends it down to VC. As far as that goes, he wouldn't need to be buying more of it from two other guys he doesn't know if he already had junk to deal. It just simply vanishes in a puff of Wiki-logic (lol).

 

The fact that the game characters never uncover the truth is of no consequence...just as Tommy never discovers who the actual shooters are (who are way too efficient to have been working for Diaz anyway).

[Zee]

yeah i kinda like that. adds to the mystery of the story.

 

Vice City is not a standard urban crime game. Weird things happen, like Tommy drinking auntie poluets zombie juice. It's why I love it.

[MyDog]

Looking carefully this time, there actually are no drugs on the table. Just a suitcase full of money and several envelopes of it.

[Nukey Shay]

I refuse to argue with the blind

 

No offense

[MyDog]

I refuse to argue with the blind

 

No offense

Before you call me blind use your own f*cking eyes to watch the cutscene again and you'll see. Or better yet, give me a screenshot pointing to where the drugs are because if you don't prove that there are drugs there, there aren't any.

[Node]

 

I refuse to argue with the blind

 

No offense

Before you call me blind use your own f*cking eyes to watch the cutscene again and you'll see. Or better yet, give me a screenshot pointing to where the drugs are because if you don't prove that there are drugs there, there aren't any.

Sorry to pop your bubble but:

 

 

Point proven.