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The evolution of GTA.


Mainland Marauder

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Honest Bill

Fair enough, however, The Sims is obviously a greatly sped up microcosm of real life with actual goals and objectives which are clearly delineated for the player. The game experience becomes rewarding because there is a feeling of accomplishment to be attained and there is a deeply personal feeling of customisation as a reward, you can change things to your liking.

 

Which is why character customisation is less boring than being hungry. When you customise, you feel a psychological bond to the game world, and you have effects on it. the sense of accomplishment is what makes games (GTA, Sims etc) so addictive. you get out what you put in, i think that's a big factor and i hope to see more of it in V

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Racecarlock

 

I just want to be able to hold ten weapons in my pocket, get away with speeding and vehicle to vehicle hit and run, free roam the map without having to go back to my house or a burger shot every hour to sleep or eat virtual food.

 

Fuel, hunger, and sleep. The perfect trifecta of unneeded pointless busywork. Especially pointless in a GTA game where I want to explore and rampage, not eat and wait for my gas tank to fill up. I got a plane to fly, bitch, I don't want to have to eat or die.

Good take and all, but I just don't buy it myself. Specifically, I don't buy that any of it is or was that imposing on the gameplay.

 

"Sleep" is easily integrated with the save function. Everyone saves. In SA this also had the effect of canceling a "hungry" effect, or canceling a gang war. You had a lot of stuff on the side you could either do or don't. You could shoot hoops in Sweet's driveway, so did it become a sports game? Of course not.

 

The eating thing was just fine, really, and some of CJ's best dialogue was locked essentially until you porked him up on Cluckin' Bell and the like. Get him fat, walk by that chubby Latina hooker you see strolling around his hood. Respond negatively. This stuff almost makes the game worth another playthrough.

 

Like I'd mentioned, that plane you're flying wasn't part of GTA at one point. It is now. And there will be other things that get incorporated into it. And Rockstar has a way of doing this without interfering much with the core gameplay, unless you're one of these sticklers for the tried and true formula.

 

GTA's "tried and true formula" is to expand and evolve and continue doing so. When that stops, so does GTA. Some people just want lots of driving and shooting around a generic mob film storyline. This is the kind of mindset that allows game makers to keep putting out the same old thing year after year. The kind of mindset that has modern rock radio full of Nickelback soundalikes. The kind of mindset that keeps politicians spouting the same meaningless talking points every election year. No matter what it is, putting something fresh out there takes a lot of effort and resources and there's no reason to if people are happy paying over and over again for the same old.

I didn't dislike the feature because of the physique tweaking. I hated it because it was on a timer. Some guy suggested that sleeping also be on a timer so that your guy would pass out if he stays up to late. Dying from hunger, passing out from lack of sleep, these things suck.

 

Think about it. Imagine being on top of mount chilliad just exploring and enjoying yourself when all of a sudden BAM! hunger pains. There's a very good reason I use the no hunger cheat whenever I start up the game.

 

I don't have a problem with sleep being used to save, nor the time jump it causes. I have a problem with people asking that you either sleep every X hours/minutes/seconds or you pass out. That's not fun, that's not engaging, and that's not enjoyable. It's realistic, but since when was GTA about making the protagonist have the motives bars from the sims? It may be nice for role players, but not everybody is a role player, so forcing role playing on everyone is just plain selfish.

 

I mean, this would be like me asking that the character either does a tank rampage side mission every hour or kills himself out of boredom. Yeah, I might like tank rampages, but I realize that it would be a dick move to those who don't. The people suggesting these role playing things don't seem to realize that.

Edited by Racecarlock
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Mainland Marauder

The cheats to disable any of that are great if you're just messing around in the wilderness for a long time. That's different from the storyline, in which generally people are either going to stop and eat something or, better yet, just walk up to one of the vending machines placed just about everywhere and reset the "timer." And get health! Doesn't that kinda say "living world" more than just having a random heart floating around on the street that magically heals you?

 

It takes a long time to actually die of hunger in SA, unless your CJ runs around routinely with no muscle and no fat. It's just like the gang wars. When a territory gets attacked, you can ignore it and then it only becomes disputed, and you can go right in there whenever and blast some Ballas and take it right back. Piece of cake. And gang territories don't become too relevant until the final mission strand when you need 35% of them to finish the game. All this is stuff that effects very little in the main gameplay but does quite a bit to bring CJ alive to the gamer, and the world he lives in.

 

GTA anti-heroes live in a world full of pointless stuff like eating and sleeping, just like we do.

 

How'd you like Bully? Jimmy passed out and respawned in his room when you didn't get home in time.

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be."

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Racecarlock
The cheats to disable any of that are great if you're just messing around in the wilderness for a long time. That's different from the storyline, in which generally people are either going to stop and eat something or, better yet, just walk up to one of the vending machines placed just about everywhere and reset the "timer." And get health! Doesn't that kinda say "living world" more than just having a random heart floating around on the street that magically heals you?

 

It takes a long time to actually die of hunger in SA, unless your CJ runs around routinely with no muscle and no fat. It's just like the gang wars. When a territory gets attacked, you can ignore it and then it only becomes disputed, and you can go right in there whenever and blast some Ballas and take it right back. Piece of cake. And gang territories don't become too relevant until the final mission strand when you need 35% of them to finish the game. All this is stuff that effects very little in the main gameplay but does quite a bit to bring CJ alive to the gamer, and the world he lives in.

 

GTA anti-heroes live in a world full of pointless stuff like eating and sleeping, just like we do.

 

How'd you like Bully? Jimmy passed out and respawned in his room when you didn't get home in time.

I hated passing out in bully. Besides which, there are plenty of good ways to increase immersion without making me get a burger every hour. I don't need CJ to be "Alive" I just need him to be fun. And fun he is. The ability to summon a jet out of thin air, then fly it with the tank properties cheat enabled is one of the things that keeps me close to SA this very day. Hunger? I could very easily do without hunger. I use the no hunger cheat, as I've said before. I don't need my protagonist to have realistic motives straight out of the sims to make me like him. I mean, I get what you're saying about genre blending, but the Genres GTA has mixed so far have worked well enough without me having to get my player character to bed on time.

 

But I bet you're wondering what suggestions I have for immersion. Well, first of all, expand the list of pedestrian actions, like getting into taxis and such. Working public transportation. This includes buses and airports, and I want to see pedestrians using all of them as well as me. But I also want the player to gain more abilities that do result from realism and don't get in the way of anything. For example, sitting on benches and chairs. Another one is being able to take hostages and drag bodies, either dead or knocked out. Being able to use fireworks, interacting with pedestrians (In non splatting them against the curb ways I mean), and so much more. There's plenty of ways to increase immersion without bringing back hunger and adding in fuel and a sleep timer. I don't care how little time it takes to reset those timers, it's still annoying.

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i am a girl on the internet

I personally thought working out in SA was pretty fun (as opposed to the usual "create your character" routine that some games follow). Eating didn't really impede on the gameplay, so I never really noticed it until CJ was hungry. I posted in another thread regarding fuel, and to be honest, it would work pretty well with GTA. As others have mentioned time and time again, Mafia II pulled it off quite nicely.

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Mainland Marauder

 

I use the no hunger cheat, as I've said before.

Right, I caught that earlier, you use a cheat to disable the hunger. You like flying tanks so inputting cheats is standard operating procedure for you, it seems. I use cheats when I'm goofing around too, and Rockstar puts them in there in large part for people doing that. No hunger cheat, no problem. So where's your beef? Beef....feeding CJ burgers....WHERE'S THE BEEF?!?!? Get it? herp derp.....

 

 

Mainland Marauder looks around, awkwardly realizing nobody else thinks that was funny

 

Ahem.....anyway, an hour in real time is three or four game days. I've never fooled around on the summit of Chiliad for that long on end. That seems boring. But there's that subjective word again - what bores you might excite me and vice versa.

 

The production time between games gets longer and longer, so between all these features, and ways to disable them, a lot of people can find themselves right back playing one of the old titles. Those who have known me here for awhile know how I feel about San Andreas. Still the greatest game in the series, I think. And it was those little things that put it over the top for me.

 

I had to stop playing and laughed for a couple minutes the first time I saw that Cluckin' Bell guy and listened to some of his lines. Beats the hell out of picking up a spinning heart in the alleyway. But we'll agree to disagree then.

 

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be."

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Smokin Aces

Great post!

 

And as far as I am concerned. GTA is simply a life simulator. That is its genre. You are playing the life of another person who is trying to make it in a capitalistic society.

 

You are pursuing money and everything and anything money can by. GTA is a portrayal of capitalism at its worst.

 

That is the GTA recipe.

 

It isn't a specified genre. It is a genre breaking series. You can't categorize it.

 

It has every aspect of any game you can think of incorporated into it.

 

Questing, First Person Shooting, Racing, Life simulating, Exploring, Leveling, Competition, absolutely everything is incorporated.

 

I love the topic OP!

 

Hopefully it will stop some of the people who think they know what GTA is from shooting down great ideas that members come up with on the basis that it is not "GTA like"!

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How'd you like Bully? Jimmy passed out and respawned in his room when you didn't get home in time.

Sorry I just have to point this out:

He didn't just go back to his bed (atleast not always) most times he'd wake were he dropped and he'd be missing things that someone had stole through the night, I once woke up with only my shoes then another time only my shoes had been taken and many other variations.

 

This is why I found it funny, in that game.

 

 

I suppose it's similar to blacking out in TBOGT, but I don't think anyone ever stole from you.

 

 

 

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Fair enough, however, The Sims is obviously a greatly sped up microcosm of real life with actual goals and objectives which are clearly delineated for the player. The game experience becomes rewarding because there is a feeling of accomplishment to be attained and there is a deeply personal feeling of customisation as a reward, you can change things to your liking.

 

Which is why character customisation is less boring than being hungry. When you customise, you feel a psychological bond to the game world, and you have effects on it. the sense of accomplishment is what makes games (GTA, Sims etc) so addictive. you get out what you put in, i think that's a big factor and i hope to see more of it in V

Excellent OP; And I also agree with the statement that the game is about freedom, specifically the freedom to test and try every little parameter and function that the game developers included, to see what you can accomplish. A fair amount of replay value in the GTAs comes from pushing these limits and thinking up fun little challenges for yourself, given the game rules and physics.

 

 

I guess i'm saying they shouldn't add half arsed features just for the sake of it, they should weigh up their overall relevance to the gaming experience

Because the GTAs have always included a variety of minigames, it's like getting several games for the price of one, along with a double shot of GTA attitude tounge.gif And precisely as you say, when minigames are consistent with the theme of the game and even help contribute in some way to gaining resources that you can use in other parts of the game, that is when they really work. Otherwise, they feel like cheap tack-ons, and it makes one wonder if there is a single creative mind trying to keep the game consistent.

 

Regarding all the howling on this forum about The Sims, I am leaning even more in the direction that (without selling itself out) GTAV could include more complex empire building and financial / real estate simulations that could be completely in line with the theme of the game, and could even be relevant and functional in both single player and multiplayer modes,providing long term replay value as well as leaderboard motivation.

 

And speaking of multiplayer and The Sims in the same paragraph, I like some people's ideas of safehouse customization, and furthermore the ability for players to congregate at a person's customized safehouse like a game lobby a'la GTA Legends 2012.

 

In the same way that we discuss, dialog, flame and rant on these forums, we could do it face-to-face in real time in the topic host's tricked-out safehouse, while sporting our badass customized avatars. If (inevitably when) a violent disagreement breaks out, the combatants can take it outside and frag each other with their weapons of choice.

 

I know that sounds terribly like the Sims or Playstation Home, but I think that would be in keeping with the GTA theme colgate.gif and would be an excellent way to extend the GTAV experience well after the initial excitement and play-throughs.

Edited by saintsrow
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Racecarlock
I use the no hunger cheat, as I've said before.

Right, I caught that earlier, you use a cheat to disable the hunger. You like flying tanks so inputting cheats is standard operating procedure for you, it seems. I use cheats when I'm goofing around too, and Rockstar puts them in there in large part for people doing that. No hunger cheat, no problem. So where's your beef? Beef....feeding CJ burgers....WHERE'S THE BEEF?!?!? Get it? herp derp.....

 

 

Mainland Marauder looks around, awkwardly realizing nobody else thinks that was funny

 

Ahem.....anyway, an hour in real time is three or four game days. I've never fooled around on the summit of Chiliad for that long on end. That seems boring. But there's that subjective word again - what bores you might excite me and vice versa.

 

The production time between games gets longer and longer, so between all these features, and ways to disable them, a lot of people can find themselves right back playing one of the old titles. Those who have known me here for awhile know how I feel about San Andreas. Still the greatest game in the series, I think. And it was those little things that put it over the top for me.

 

I had to stop playing and laughed for a couple minutes the first time I saw that Cluckin' Bell guy and listened to some of his lines. Beats the hell out of picking up a spinning heart in the alleyway. But we'll agree to disagree then.

As I said, I'm fine with physique tweaking as long as it comes without the stupid hunger timer. And I don't just hang out on mount chilliad. I fly planes around, I gamble in LV, I base jump, I stroll on the beach, and I think I'm going to try some more of those racing activities too. And the thing is, I don't want to have all of that be interrupted by sudden hunger pains, even if it's only every hour. I don't care that it makes the game more realistic, because as I said you can do that without these timed wastes of time and at the same time give the player more abilities to mess around with. Eating may be fun in real life, but that's only because you can taste something. And I don't enjoy having to sleep or get gas for the car.

 

Timed chores are not fun, no matter the time interval between when they need to be done and how much time it takes to do them. I mean, I know fun is a subjective word, but frankly anyone who finds fun in house chores and sleeping already has their game, and I don't see why their game needs to interfere directly with my game and make me possibly travel across half a city to eat a god damn burger.

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God damn its like we're figuring the meaning of life in here.

user posted image
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God damn its like we're figuring the meaning of life in here.

And now, you have attained the true wisdom of GTA, grasshopper... colgate.gif

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Nah Tso Gud
God damn its like we're figuring the meaning of life in here.

It's like this thread is in a completely different forum, it's an actual, valid, reasonable discussion going on here biggrin.gif I hope to contribute once my phone isn't my only means of typing.

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Mainland Marauder
God damn its like we're figuring the meaning of life in here.

Perhaps.

 

It really has seemed to be there is this subset of GTA players who are drawn to discussions about GTA future, and they come off to me as having an overly rigid idea of what GTA is and should be. And to me that's contrary to the way Rockstar works with these things. We have a lot of those kinds of posts, so I was thinking it'd be a good idea to examine what exactly GTA is.

 

Someone says, for instance, there shouldn't be zombies. Well, there are plenty of zombie games, right? And it wouldn't benefit Rockstar any to turn the franchise that built them into another one. But, suppose there was a mission where you had one that was created, and you had to find some means outside the GTA norm to deal with it. You can't shoot it, you can't run it over. It's worked in as a parody of the pop culture zombie craze of late, or possibly the so-called bath salt incidents. Now that's very GTA to me. And is it any less ludicrous than some of the other mission angles?

 

Remember, you had Carl Johnson the gangster who was looked down upon even by his fellow thugs who becomes a pilot and a part-time trucker and a car garage owner who finds time between being harassed by crooked cops and saving his brother to go on dates, gather all the prime real estate in San Andreas, bet on horse races, shop for clothes (and take forever changing them) and get involved in rap feuds. Then he breaks into Area-whatever and steals a jetpack, flies to the east coast and back, pulls off the largest casino heist in history and singlehandedly storms a naval base and aircraft carrier to commandeer a fighter jet, taking out trained fighters scrambled to take him out. Then he goes back home and takes out a massive drug ring.

 

I'm sure I left plenty of wacky stuff out of that too.

 

CJ was like the Forrest Gump of the hood. Inexplicably the center of the action everywhere he goes. The storyline and some of the missions are absolutely preposterous. But it's fun, and it's still GTA as we reckon it. And it's the envelope some other people say wasn't pushed as hard in IV, though I think they're misguided a bit.

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be."

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having to buy food, drinks, fuel and other stuff would be like an "ongoing" expense to give some more usage to money. of course that should be optional, i mean, it is not too hard to create something that can be toggled off or on. i really like the idea of having to care about something else other than driving and shooting, it would add depth and immersion to the game...fun will never be taken out of gta, you will ALWAYS be able to roam around with a bazooka blowing stuff. but then, WHY do you guys always complain about some realistic/rpg OPTIONAL additions?

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Honest Bill

Mainland marauder,

 

I understand your views regarding a lot of posts in reply to a lot of suggested features

 

"This is GTA not SIMS" being a common phrase which is both stupid and irrelevant. But personally i agree that there is not a single sacrosanct definition of what GTA is, i still think that 'freedom' is one of the cornerstones of the series, certain things which cannot be removed.

 

With this in mind, i appreciate that you enjoyed going to Clucking Bell.. So did i, i liked making CJ fat, and i liked some of the stupid lines etc, however, i want to do it when i want to do it. I don't want to do it when i feel like doing something else and i'm getting an annoying message. This is what i'm trying to get across, the addition of features such as eating, sleeping, getting petrol etc, are absolutely fine, i don't want to impinge on anybody else's fun, but it seems people are often adamant that these things should be mandatory, usually their given reasoning being that they need the game to structure their game time for them because they lack the discipline to do it themselves

 

That's where it becomes a problem, my way of playing has no effect on anybody elses, but many people are insistent that the way they want to play is how it must be.. Liberty is all very well, until we come into a situation where we have a conflict of interests, and that's when we must compromise.

 

I didn't ever ask for eating to be removed, just the mechanic which bugs me about it and will eventually kill my character if i neglect to do it. That seriously bugs me and many other people so it seems. I am playing the game to be entertained, and i prefer the freedom to choose which activities i want to partake in at any given time. That's actually the main reason i play GTA games.

 

@Saintsrow.

 

Those sound like some really good ideas to me. I'd like a bit more complexity and depth to GTA.

Edited by Honest Bill
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theworldfamous

 

God damn its like we're figuring the meaning of life in here.

yeah well some of us are interested in the game beyond being just fanboys and cheerleaders, but coming from a technical, design, marketing standpoint.. you know the stuff that comes with being an 'adult' or 'professional'. suicidal.gif

 

OT:

CJ was like the Forrest Gump of the hood. Inexplicably the center of the action everywhere he goes. The storyline and some of the missions are absolutely preposterous. But it's fun, and it's still GTA as we reckon it. And it's the envelope some other people say wasn't pushed as hard in IV, though I think they're misguided a bit.

 

hahah...good analogy. I still had that feeling in IV a bit, I think it's main pitfall for open world games anyway. I still think 'bold, new direction' means an evolution in that regard. In past games, a lot of design decisions and new/cut features can be traced back to the desire to break that barrier. On the other hand they seem to try to avoid rpg-like grinding and making things mandatory. It's always trying to maintain a balance there.

 

That's why I think you're never gonna see things like eating or sleeping be made mandatory in the game. It's always optional, you may get some benefits out of it but it's never essential. Only Bully made sleeping mandatory, but only because it made it sense for a boarding school environment.

Edited by theworldfamous
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seVensantos

 

I remember playing games as a kid, I'd always dreamed of a 3D world, where you could just drive around if you wanted to.

When you could do anything, break laws or obey them? Just have the freedom.

No more structured game play, sort of like a life sim?

 

Well, the first time I played GTA 3, I like WOW!! This is what I've been looking for and waiting for!! This ROCKS!

 

So to be, the GTA Recipe is freedom. For me, they started it with GTA 3.

I don't like platformers. Mario was ok, fun when i was a kid.

 

GTA is an open world game, its fun and lets you do almost anything. It's a world that makes you believe that its a world.

icon14.gif excellent & agreed.

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Mainland Marauder

 

God damn its like we're figuring the meaning of life in here.

yeah well some of us are interested in the game beyond being just fanboys and cheerleaders, but coming from a technical, design, marketing standpoint.. you know the stuff that comes with being an 'adult' or 'professional'. suicidal.gif

OK, let's try not to antagonize each other unnecessarily in here. We've got a good thing going as it is. This isn't the kind of discussion most people are used to seeing in here.

 

 

@manu90mala: Yeah, money in a video game is pretty much pointless if you don't have things in the game to use it for. That was a big shortcoming of GTA3. I realize often GTA storyline follows the narrative of the protagonist trying to become rich, but even that's not universal in the series. Niko Bellic in particular seemed rather non-materialistic to me. Money was a means to an end, revenge (and the promise of living a regular, nonviolent life eventually) was his primary motivator. There were lots of missions where making money was the priority, but he was roped into a lot of them because of Roman's expensive tastes and his tendency to gamble away his cash. Trying to get rich of course. That was an interesting twist in the typical "rags to riches" GTA yarn.

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be."

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Since San Andreas I actually love the way Rockstar have taken the series, personally i just felt like it was the right time for it to stand up and go "look, enough of the bulsh*t, this is how we want GTA to be, and if you give it a chance, it'll blow you away" they had guts to take it the way they wanted, an it's paid off, they're always taking the chance to kill the series, but they always prove every doubt wrong. I think that they look at the best features in other games and give it their own twist.

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This is a very nice topic we have here... which is also related with GTAV, as we're going for a "bold new direction in storytelling" and such this time around.

 

After being a GTA player for about 6 -7 years, I like to ask myself "What have I learned about GTA after all these years? What makes a true GTA? What's the secret behind the undeniable success of this series?"

 

The OP made some very nice points which answer to these questions I've made, and I totally agree with them.

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I think money will be a large thing in this game. I feel the purchase of real-estate will take a new form in this game. Money will finally mean something more to the player. Could even be a deciding factor on how you finish the game.

 

I know what I am going to say now does not fall into line as what some of you have talked about but as a mechanic to the game with what I have noticed since being on these boards I have the following.

 

What if “one” of the things in the “bold, new direction” was making coop across platforms a reality? People would no longer have to worry about which platform they were playing on. Create a “co-op only gameplay across platforms” then have regular multiplayer modes in the traditional way. It would take care of the naysayers of controls not being equal and join people together from the respective platforms. Kind of a pipe dream but it would be cool.

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Ferocious Banger

Great post!

When I used to be younger I didn't know that a game called Grand theft auto existed.All I knew was there were cricket games and NFS games that EA made.I wasn't exposed to games alot.Some of my friends then showed me a 'shooter' game with a war theme.I was certainly impressed by the fact that I could wield a gun and kill people(enemies).But I always felt that something was amiss,kinda like the 'Higgs boson'.

 

As time went on I grew a lot more friends.I also finally got an internet connection.I started seeing a lot of 'GTA' articles.I was curious to know more about it.

 

My gaming life changed altogether when I got exposed to the first GTA game that I played-Vice city.The 'Higgs Boson(Freedom and the non linearity)' I was searching for in games was finally found by me.I was just fascinated.I was mesmerised.It was a truly awesome feeling.

 

So to me,as many others have said before,freedom is THE thing that defines Grand Theft Auto.The freedom is available for both the players and the developers.For the latter the freedom means that they can expand the sub genres of the game!

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theworldfamous
What if “one” of the things in the “bold, new direction” was making coop across platforms a reality? People would no longer have to worry about which platform they were playing on. Create a “co-op only gameplay across platforms” then have regular multiplayer modes in the traditional way. It would take care of the naysayers of controls not being equal and join people together from the respective platforms. Kind of a pipe dream but it would be cool.

Cool, but definitely a pipe dream. First of all, Sony and Microsoft will never agree to it. Secondly, it's technically difficult because ps3 and xbox are so different. Their online business models aren't compatible either (free vs. premium). There have been some attempts at xbox-pc multiplayer, which is easier because xbox is very much like a pc, but they all failed miserably. There was this game 'shadow....something', nobody played it. I don't think anybody tried anymore since then and the way the industry is moving it's probably never gonna happen again.

 

 

 

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Shreddy Krueger
If you aim to simulate the world, and the world has superfluous, pointless things, then a proper simulation of the world is going to have some superfluous, pointless things.

 

And if the main theme of GTA is freedom, then it has freedom to adapt as time and technology move along. There's a reason why you never see GTA on any of those discussions or lists of game franchises that should've gone away a long time ago. I think that freedom to adapt is why.

And therein lies my issue with developers trying to add more 'realism' to their games. Trying to sim the world is a pretty creative, long-term idea, and I give credit to the Housers (I think) for saying that, however there's just some things that do not, and will never work for a video game. Now everyone's opinion on this is slightly different, everyone has a different level of realism in which they are willing to accept in their games. Sure, pointless things exist in the real world, but incorporating a boring aspect of general life into gameplay content will make the game boring, if there's too much of it. For R* to evolve, sure, they need to gussy up what surrounds their 'core' gameplay, but simply adding things for the sake of "broadening the scope" can be an extremely negative characteristic of a game/franchise.

 

R* has been able to continually evolve GTA and make each installment entertaining. IV evolved in terms of physical gameplay, with a new engine, hardware, and physics in which they built Liberty City on. But in terms of adding elements to expand on the typical GTA gameplay, it was a flop IMO. When I play GTA, I get into the side-mission/extra activities just as much as the main story, but with IV, nearly all of the extra activities were superflouous, pointless things, and it made that aspect of the game less enjoyable than previous instalments of the franchise.

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Smokin Aces

Just to add to this topic.

 

What do you guys think about virtual reality? Isn't that the be all and end all of video games? Isn't that what the video game industry should be striving for?

 

Virtual reality is a long way off. But that doesn't change the fact that virtual reality is not only a gamers dream, it is a fantasy many people wish would come to fruition.

 

In the far away future, I am sure virtual reality will exist. They will find some type of technology that taps into the area of the brain that creates dreams. And they will manipulate it with some kind of electrical node system which will create a virtual world for you to do whatever the hell you want to do in.

 

There will be sex games, racing games, shooting games, crime games, dinosaur land games. You name it. Virtual reality will be the bees knees eventually.

 

Now, to relate that to GTA.

 

As far as I am concerned, open world games are the closest thing to virtual reality in this day and age. Specifically, GTA is the closest game to virtual reality.

 

Virtual reality = realism. And this is the part I am having trouble understanding. Why are so many people against realism?

 

The housers clearly understand that virtual reality is the bees knees and they are trying to come as close as possible to it as they can with current technology.

 

Again, many people put out great ideas that would add to the realism of the series. And some members shoot them down because they view them as mundane real life activities that they do enough in the real world already.

 

That really concerns me because it leaves me curious as to what these said people want to do in the world of GTA.

 

For instance, a fuel mechanic that forces you to refuel your vehicle at a gas station. I quite like that idea. But many members on this forum think that is a boring real life activity.

 

Eating, another boring real life activity.

 

What else is there? Getting tired? Another boring real life activity?

 

Here is my point of view on the whole idea of these activities being boring real life activities.

 

They aren't. Why? Because it is a video game. When I am refilling my vehicle in a video game, I can pull up to the gas station. Honk my horn a billion times at the idiot that is taking forever to pump his gas. Get out of my car, go whoop the dudes ass, get in his car, drive it out of the way, and fuel up my car.

 

Could I do that in the real world? If I feel like getting arrested.

 

Eating? Boring activity? Maybe in the real world. But when I go to a restaurant to get some food in me in a video game, I can do things I could never do in the real world. In a video game, I can walk into the restaurant. Buy some food. Walk out of the place, pushing every moron who is standing in my way out of the way. Then, when they get mad I pull out a knife and stab the guy 3 times.

 

Getting tired? Boring activity? Maybe in the real world. But no matter how tired I have been in my life I have never fallen asleep on the side of the road, only to awake with no shoes, and a missing wallet. In a video game. That would be cool as sh*t.

 

That is my point of view on the whole idea of people calling these true to life situations boring. They may be boring every day activities in the real world, but in a video game, with a little imagination, refilling your fuel supply, could be the highlight of your day!

 

 

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ultimatelizardman

i don't see how hunger, sleep, etc... could be an issue if handled in the same way as in fallout: new vegas, namely via a "hardcore" option when starting a new game.

they could actually use two checkboxes; "realistic needs" such as eating, sleeping, fuel, etc... and "realistic survivability" which reduces the player's HP to a realistic level.

 

 

 

on the main topic:

 

i believe the ideal "GTA formula" is essentially a combination of TPS, fighter, RPG, stealth, simulator and strategy elements with a heavy emphasis on freedom, especially in regards to how many ways there are in which one can complete a mission and what equipment and tactics one can use to do so. the best way to increase the freedom players have during missions would be to break all missions down into sevral "mini-missions", the means one uses to complete a "mini-mission" would not only determine the specifications and goals of the next, but also determine those of the next main mission as a whole (it's mini missions (or steps, if you will), it's rewards and it's effects upon the game world) and possibly permanently alter the game world.

 

in short, GTA should ideally combine the TPS, fighter, RPG, stealth, simulator and strategy genres into a world where the player's actions have true consequences. ergo, the ideal GTA should be a "world simulator" which does not fit into any genre, as it is a heterogenous mixture of all those which are pertinent to it's theme (crime).

Edited by ultimatelizardman
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Honest Bill
Just to add to this topic.

 

What do you guys think about virtual reality? Isn't that the be all and end all of video games? Isn't that what the video game industry should be striving for?

 

Virtual reality is a long way off. But that doesn't change the fact that virtual reality is not only a gamers dream, it is a fantasy many people wish would come to fruition.

 

In the far away future, I am sure virtual reality will exist. They will find some type of technology that taps into the area of the brain that creates dreams. And they will manipulate it with some kind of electrical node system which will create a virtual world for you to do whatever the hell you want to do in.

 

There will be sex games, racing games, shooting games, crime games, dinosaur land games. You name it. Virtual reality will be the bees knees eventually.

 

Now, to relate that to GTA.

 

As far as I am concerned, open world games are the closest thing to virtual reality in this day and age. Specifically, GTA is the closest game to virtual reality.

 

Virtual reality = realism. And this is the part I am having trouble understanding. Why are so many people against realism?

 

The housers clearly understand that virtual reality is the bees knees and they are trying to come as close as possible to it as they can with current technology.

 

Again, many people put out great ideas that would add to the realism of the series. And some members shoot them down because they view them as mundane real life activities that they do enough in the real world already.

 

That really concerns me because it leaves me curious as to what these said people want to do in the world of GTA.

 

For instance, a fuel mechanic that forces you to refuel your vehicle at a gas station. I quite like that idea. But many members on this forum think that is a boring real life activity.

 

Eating, another boring real life activity.

 

What else is there? Getting tired? Another boring real life activity?

 

Here is my point of view on the whole idea of these activities being boring real life activities.

 

They aren't. Why? Because it is a video game. When I am refilling my vehicle in a video game, I can pull up to the gas station. Honk my horn a billion times at the idiot that is taking forever to pump his gas. Get out of my car, go whoop the dudes ass, get in his car, drive it out of the way, and fuel up my car.

 

Could I do that in the real world? If I feel like getting arrested.

 

Eating? Boring activity? Maybe in the real world. But when I go to a restaurant to get some food in me in a video game, I can do things I could never do in the real world. In a video game, I can walk into the restaurant. Buy some food. Walk out of the place, pushing every moron who is standing in my way out of the way. Then, when they get mad I pull out a knife and stab the guy 3 times.

 

Getting tired? Boring activity? Maybe in the real world. But no matter how tired I have been in my life I have never fallen asleep on the side of the road, only to awake with no shoes, and a missing wallet. In a video game. That would be cool as sh*t.

 

That is my point of view on the whole idea of people calling these true to life situations boring. They may be boring every day activities in the real world, but in a video game, with a little imagination, refilling your fuel supply, could be the highlight of your day!

My take on this point is, that while you are correct that 'Virtual Reality' has been a gamer's dream for a long time, there is a crucial point to be made here, that is the 'Virtual' part.. I mean if 'Virtual' reality is exactly the same as actual reality, then there is little point to it. For me it's supposed to be reality but with the mundane and the boring parts removed, it is purely entertainment.

 

I can imagine that virtual reality sex games would be extremely popular, but i can guarantee that they would be less fun the more realistic they got.. Oh great my virtual sex partner has a headache....

 

Here's the key in my opinion. Adding realism for realism's sake alone is not only unnecessary, but also makes the game less fun. Features should have a good reason to be there and provide something which adds to the whole experience in a relevant way.

 

Let's take your examples for instance, for going to a gas station, or going and getting a burger, well i have to point out that both these examples lead to you harassing someone, but just in a different setting. The actual ability to eat or get gas seems quite irrelevant to both these scenarios, and are essentially just giving you a different and more believable setting in which to kill people.. Which is fine, i'm not knocking your views, the more immersion the better. But let's be fair, and use San Andreas and GTAIV as an example

 

In both SA and IV you could go to clucking bell, get a burger and then stab someone. Only in SA, i got an irritating message telling me i'm hungry, and would eventually die if i didn't want to go and eat. Was IV's fast food outlet experience really any less rewarding for the omission of this little annoyance? I don't think so.

 

Very few people are opposed to the addition of small and immersive features which we can all agree add some extra layers of realism to make the world a little more believable.. few actually oppose the ability to fill your car up with gas, but many oppose actually having to do it, to avoid getting arbitrarily annoyed by an extraneous mechanic, which as far as i can see, adds nothing to the game in itself

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^^^ There are so many aspects to real world urban and country environments that no game development effort would have the resources to include them all. Even in next gen virtual reality games, creators, developers and designers will still have to decide what elements of reality to include in a game.

 

Precisely as stated in some of the posts above, the parts of reality that make it into the game should be consistent with, and add to, the game's essential nature. This is a tricky balance that requires crystal clear creative vision, plus inspired design to figure out how to implement well.

 

I think most of us agree that a lot of the little things that Rockstar has included in past GTAs have added value, while a few were gimmicky or irrelevant. Let's hope they get the time and the wisdom to really nail it with GTAV.

 

I would like to see the original brainstorming list of what kinds of reality functions and minigames were considered for the various GTA's, and I would like to see the lists as they progressively were whittled down to the few elements that actually made it into each game, including GTAV.

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Racecarlock
Just to add to this topic.

 

What do you guys think about virtual reality? Isn't that the be all and end all of video games? Isn't that what the video game industry should be striving for?

 

Virtual reality is a long way off. But that doesn't change the fact that virtual reality is not only a gamers dream, it is a fantasy many people wish would come to fruition.

 

In the far away future, I am sure virtual reality will exist. They will find some type of technology that taps into the area of the brain that creates dreams. And they will manipulate it with some kind of electrical node system which will create a virtual world for you to do whatever the hell you want to do in.

 

There will be sex games, racing games, shooting games, crime games, dinosaur land games. You name it. Virtual reality will be the bees knees eventually.

 

Now, to relate that to GTA.

 

As far as I am concerned, open world games are the closest thing to virtual reality in this day and age. Specifically, GTA is the closest game to virtual reality.

 

Virtual reality = realism. And this is the part I am having trouble understanding. Why are so many people against realism?

 

The housers clearly understand that virtual reality is the bees knees and they are trying to come as close as possible to it as they can with current technology.

 

Again, many people put out great ideas that would add to the realism of the series. And some members shoot them down because they view them as mundane real life activities that they do enough in the real world already.

 

That really concerns me because it leaves me curious as to what these said people want to do in the world of GTA.

 

For instance, a fuel mechanic that forces you to refuel your vehicle at a gas station. I quite like that idea. But many members on this forum think that is a boring real life activity.

 

Eating, another boring real life activity.

 

What else is there? Getting tired? Another boring real life activity?

 

Here is my point of view on the whole idea of these activities being boring real life activities.

 

They aren't. Why? Because it is a video game. When I am refilling my vehicle in a video game, I can pull up to the gas station. Honk my horn a billion times at the idiot that is taking forever to pump his gas. Get out of my car, go whoop the dudes ass, get in his car, drive it out of the way, and fuel up my car.

 

Could I do that in the real world? If I feel like getting arrested.

 

Eating? Boring activity? Maybe in the real world. But when I go to a restaurant to get some food in me in a video game, I can do things I could never do in the real world. In a video game, I can walk into the restaurant. Buy some food. Walk out of the place, pushing every moron who is standing in my way out of the way. Then, when they get mad I pull out a knife and stab the guy 3 times.

 

Getting tired? Boring activity? Maybe in the real world. But no matter how tired I have been in my life I have never fallen asleep on the side of the road, only to awake with no shoes, and a missing wallet. In a video game. That would be cool as sh*t.

 

That is my point of view on the whole idea of people calling these true to life situations boring. They may be boring every day activities in the real world, but in a video game, with a little imagination, refilling your fuel supply, could be the highlight of your day!

My take on this point is, that while you are correct that 'Virtual Reality' has been a gamer's dream for a long time, there is a crucial point to be made here, that is the 'Virtual' part.. I mean if 'Virtual' reality is exactly the same as actual reality, then there is little point to it. For me it's supposed to be reality but with the mundane and the boring parts removed, it is purely entertainment.

 

I can imagine that virtual reality sex games would be extremely popular, but i can guarantee that they would be less fun the more realistic they got.. Oh great my virtual sex partner has a headache....

 

Here's the key in my opinion. Adding realism for realism's sake alone is not only unnecessary, but also makes the game less fun. Features should have a good reason to be there and provide something which adds to the whole experience in a relevant way.

 

Let's take your examples for instance, for going to a gas station, or going and getting a burger, well i have to point out that both these examples lead to you harassing someone, but just in a different setting. The actual ability to eat or get gas seems quite irrelevant to both these scenarios, and are essentially just giving you a different and more believable setting in which to kill people.. Which is fine, i'm not knocking your views, the more immersion the better. But let's be fair, and use San Andreas and GTAIV as an example

 

In both SA and IV you could go to clucking bell, get a burger and then stab someone. Only in SA, i got an irritating message telling me i'm hungry, and would eventually die if i didn't want to go and eat. Was IV's fast food outlet experience really any less rewarding for the omission of this little annoyance? I don't think so.

 

Very few people are opposed to the addition of small and immersive features which we can all agree add some extra layers of realism to make the world a little more believable.. few actually oppose the ability to fill your car up with gas, but many oppose actually having to do it, to avoid getting arbitrarily annoyed by an extraneous mechanic, which as far as i can see, adds nothing to the game in itself

I have to agree here. Plus there's this. A lot of people who play games need some element of fantasy. I play skyrim because it lets me slay dragons. I used to play freespace 2 (before it got deleted somehow), because it lets me compete in huge epic space battles with huge ships and shockwave explosions.

 

@Smokin Aces Where GTA comes into this is simple. I feel like a movie criminal. I escape the cops in muscle and sports cars, I pull rocket launchers out of my pocket to shoot down helicopters, and I can spawn vehicles with either a voodoo dance (III era) or with a magic cellphone (IV Era). Even without the cheats, I can very easily bribe the cops in the III era and in the IV era I only have to drive around a corner and the chase is done. At least on one star anyways. And that's the hook. Sure, the environment surrounding me is very realistic and getting closer and closer to VR by the day, but my protagonist can still create a ton of chaos to see how this world reacts both physically (Fire and movement) and intelligently (cop dispatch and pedestrian reactions).

 

So maybe a gas filling animation should be added.

 

But let me ask you this. What would putting eating on a timer solve? There was no problem before, so this is only sticking a timer on to what I consider to be boring busywork. You might think pushing people in the burger line is fun, and it very well can be, but forcing me to do the same is just trying to govern how I play, and I do not like that. I've got mass murdering and vandalism and terrorism and flying planes and exploring to do. There's no way I want to stop in the middle of any of that to sleep, fill up on gas, or eat. Virtual food is not fun to eat at this point because you can't actually taste anything. Maybe when we get to those dream machines you're talking about, but right now all it should do is restore health. I shouldn't starve to death when I'm trying to fly a plane. Sleeping already serves it's purpose as saving, and not having fuel was never a major flaw in the GTA series. Plus I don't consider getting gas to be fun. Having an animation is fine, making me use that animation every hour to keep a car I like is bullsh*t.

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