NBA Discussion

[InstantCClassic]

Bulls' Paxson already announced at the beginning of January that Rose will not be on the court until he is 100% cleared by the doctors. Now he's engaged with full contact and is targeted to play in a few weeks.

 

I have to say that as a Bulls fan, I am far more scared of the Pacers than the Heat. They were pests in the 2011 Eastern Conference Playoffs.

 

Also, got Durant being MVP this season.

[Funktipus]

Knicks better NOT trade Iman Shumpert to Phoenix for Jared Dudley. Why trade our best perimeter defender????

 

I'm listening to Stephen A. right now, and he's going off. I liked Jeremy Lin (who's having a solid year) and hated to see him go, but I understand why the Knicks did it. This proposed trade makes ZERO sense!!! Knicks are always doing this crap. We have a young guy with a lot of potential who WANTS to play defense - KEEP HIM!!!

[mark-2007]

Anyone watching any All-Star weekend stuff? The broadcast over here in England begins in half an hour. I didn't catch the Rising Stars game, but it looked high-scoring and fun - just what All-Star events are for - and Faried had a monstrous game.

 

I've seen a fair bit of talk about James White in the dunk contest - who'd I never heard of before, I must admit, but sounds like he'll be a lot of fun to watch.

[MLGTA]

Anyone watching any All-Star weekend stuff? The broadcast over here in England begins in half an hour. I didn't catch the Rising Stars game, but it looked high-scoring and fun - just what All-Star events are for - and Faried had a monstrous game.

 

I've seen a fair bit of talk about James White in the dunk contest - who'd I never heard of before, I must admit, but sounds like he'll be a lot of fun to watch.

I watched the dunk contest and the all stars game. Dunk contest was meh to me but the all star games was ok. But did any see what the players were wearing this all star weekend. Just awful to watch

[Funktipus]

I hate sounding like an old man, but maybe it's time to scrap the dunk contest. We've already seen the best (Dr J, Jordan, 'Nique, Webb, Vince) - what more can you do?

 

To me, the whole weekend was a borefest. Ne-Yo?? Alicia Off-Keys?? Are you kidding me? C'mon NBA get some folks who can actually sing!

 

RIP to Dr. Jerry Buss.

[mark-2007]

Yeah, the dunk contest was a bit of a bore. James White failed to live up to the hype, and the winning dunk from Ross was him dunking over a four foot high kid... who was crouching. That's the first time I watched the contest live, and it's even worse when seeing how many attempts it takes sometimes.

 

The 3 pt contest was entertaining - Kyrie got red hot in that last round, very fun to watch. I think I was one of the few to actually quite like the Shooting Stars contest - seeing some of the retired players wincing their way around the court.

 

The All-Star game itself was pretty fun too, I thought - a relatively close game with some highlights, notably Kobe's defensive job on LeBron... I suppose he's gotta get his victories where he can this season.

 

And yeah, I'm with you on the music front, Funk - the performances f*cking blew. I'm not too fussed really, as I had it all recorded so I could skip through it, but Fall-Out Boy and some sh*tty, insipid folksy guy, along with Ne-Yo and Alicia Keys... christ. The whole All-Star event lacks the pomp and circumstance of a Superbowl, so the musical performances seemed a bit empty, should just do away with them.

[Funktipus]

Knicks are in trouble. No defense, no heart, no effort, too much relying on three-point shots, and aside from Felton, no one drives to the damn basket. What happened last night in Indy was a disgrace!

 

Knicks sent Brewer to OKC and signed Kenyon Martin to a 10-day contract.

 

Crazy game last night between NY & GS. Curry was unstoppable. Why is it every player has his career game against the Knicks? At least the Knicks won this time. Carmelo & JR were clutch.

 

Rasheed Wallace had surgery to repair a broken bone in his foot. He's out for 8 weeks. It's over for him.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Funktipus

[Shenmue18]

Man, my Mavericks have really been disappointing this year, I don't think they'll even make the playoffs this year. Against the Grizzlies they couldn't even put up 90 points and Dirk was 4-11. Such a drastic change from the level they were playing at 2 years back.

[ALeonard28]

Man, my Mavericks have really been disappointing this year, I don't think they'll even make the playoffs this year. Against the Grizzlies they couldn't even put up 90 points and Dirk was 4-11. Such a drastic change from the level they were playing at 2 years back.

To be fair, the Mavericks are a completely different team roster wise. 3 or 4 players left from the Title run I think? The biggest loss was probably Chandler. I don't think the Mavs are as bad as their record indicates, same with my Suns. If you guys can figure out the PG spot and find a solution at center, I think you're definitely a playoff team. I really like Collison, but Dallas doesn't seem to share my opinion.

[mark-2007]

Anyone catch the videos of the Heat doing some pre-game dunk warm-ups? Lebron's is at 3 seconds-ish, pretty damn good

 

 

 

And anyone catch Kobe's dunk vs. the Hawks last night?

 

 

 

Still prefer his one against the Nets a couple months back , I think he blew by Lopez and Wallace?

[Bartleby]

Is there any team in the Eastern Conference that can challenge the Miami Heat this year? I was thinking about this earlier, and the only team I think of that can even put up a proper fight would be the Indiana Pacers, but that's assuming they can keep up on offense. Derrick Rose might be out until next year so Chicago probably won't be a threat, and New York has had trouble winning games against good teams on top of their age possibly being an issue down the stretch. Everyone else in the Playoffs in the East don't seem like they could realistically challenge the Heat.

 

As far as the West goes, the only two teams I could see potentially taking down the Heat in the Finals would be San Antonio or OKC. Denver has had trouble shooting from the perimeter lately, and I don't think the Clippers have enough experience. Meanwhile, the Thunder may have learned a few things from last year's Finals, and the Spurs are, well, the Spurs.

 

So it seems to me Miami is pretty firmly in the driver's seat this year. Thoughts?

[gta_player5]

It's the Miami Heat and then everyone else in the Eastern Conference and it's by a wide margin.

 

The Knicks flew out of the blocks to start the season, starting 18-5. They have since stumbled and accumulated a record around .500. I don't want to blame injuries and age, but I think the older members of the team are getting even older before our very eyes. Before Sunday's game against the Heat, Jason Kidd was 17-for-82 from three-point range since January 7. Marcus Camby has barely seen the court this season. Rasheed Wallace played well at the beginning of the season, but injured his foot and could miss the rest of the season. Recently acquired Kenyon Martin has not yet worked his way back into playing shape. On top of all of that, Raymond Felton has been getting cooked by seemingly every guard in the NBA and Steve Novak forgot how to shoot.

 

The Knicks have a deep team, but their age and injuries (sometimes resulting from age) are really getting to them.

 

Indiana has a very good defensive team. I figured they would be the No. 2 seed before the season started, but after Danny Granger got hurt I didn't think they would be as good. In his absence, however, Paul George and David West have been playing at all-star levels. If George and Granger assimilate into the lineup well when Granger is healthy again, or if Granger comes off the bench à la Amar'e Stoudemire, that lineup could be even better, especially considering last year's playoff experience.

 

The Heat are in a different stratosphere right now. A healthy San Antonio Spurs team would give them a good game, but I think the Heat would win the series in six. OKC is a very good team, as well, but I'm not sure they are at the point where they could win a best-of-seven against Miami. It would be a better series than the 2012 NBA Finals, but I still think Miami would win.

[Jonesizzle]

You say San Antonio and OKC, but I am worried about Memphis. They have playoff experience and have played well in the playoffs. I say it's either them or OKC against Miami in the finals at this point in the season. If Heat keep steam rollin' into the playoffs, it could get ugly in the East.

[mark-2007]

Yeah, the East is looking pretty clear cut.

 

The Knicks are sliding, .500 over their last ten games, and I can't see them picking it back up - this is the rough patch everybody predicted they'd suffer towards the end of the season. They did a good job at the start of the season to build such a good record that this slide should still see them with a good seeding - maybe even top 4.

 

Chicago with a healthy Derrick Rose could certainly be a threat to the Heat, but a healthy Derrick Rose, as you say Bartleby, may be a good few months away still.

 

That leaves the Pacers, who've already managed two wins over Miami so far. I definitely think they have the potential to make it a six or even seven game series, but I think Miami takes the East this year.

 

Also, don't forget the Celtics. They pushed the Heat to seven games last season. Of course, it'll be much more difficult this time around with no Rondo, but they do seem to get hyped up for the rivalry that's been developing. they're probably in for a lower play-off seeding, probably 6-8 range, and could even end up as a tough first round match-up for the Heat.

 

Coming to think of it, if the Heat get pushed in tough series consecutively, they could get tired by the ECF, and could drop to a Pacers/Knicks/whoever in another long series. Don't count on it though.

[Funktipus]

The Knicks are sliding, .500 over their last ten games, and I can't see them picking it back up - this is the rough patch everybody predicted they'd suffer towards the end of the season. They did a good job at the start of the season to build such a good record that this slide should still see them with a good seeding - maybe even top 4.

 

Knicks don't want the fourth spot - that would put them in Miami's bracket. You want to finish 2 or 3, thereby avoiding the Heat until the ECF.

 

I've been saying all year NY's reliance on the three will come back to haunt them. The defense isn't the same, guys are banged-up, and now they're facing the toughest part of the schedule.

 

Still ticked over how they gave the Miami game away, but they had a nice comeback win in Cleveland after Anthony left with knee issues.

 

Detroit & OKC back-to-back. I doubt Carmelo plays either game.

[InstantCClassic]

As a Bulls fan, I want the Heat to get demolished. Routing for the Spurs in the West and want them to show Lebron a flashback to 2007.

 

Pacers are a pretty darn good basketball team, and while my team is good on defense, our offense is really slacking. I just quit following the Derrick Rose updates. If he isn't back by next week, I say shut him down for the season and prepare him for training camp. Resign Korver, start Belinelli, waive Rip. We're good from there.

 

All you're gonna hear throughout the Pacers - Heat potential ECF series are constant whistles, in favor of Miami...last night's game with the Magic proved it.

[Jonesizzle]

 

All you're gonna hear throughout the Pacers - Heat potential ECF series are constant whistles, in favor of Miami...last night's game with the Magic proved it.

The Battier call was bogus, but everyone is going to complain about the calls LeBron does or doesn't get. I have someone tell me that almost every time he drives he fouls because he forces people out of the way.... but that's what happens when you are 6'8'' 270 lbs and have the finesse of a 1 or 2 guard. It's hard to call a foul on a man who plays like men among boys in the NBA some games.

[Funktipus]

Knicks had a tough loss to OKC the other night. I would've gotten the ball down low to Amar'e first. If nothing's there, then kick it out to J.R Knicks better win tonight before they go on to the west coast.

 

Amare's out for six weeks - scar tissue on his knee has to be cleaned out. Carmelo is day-to-day - damn.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Funktipus

[mark-2007]

Amare's out for six weeks - scar tissue on his knee has to be cleaned out.

Ugh, I'm guessing this is gonna be a constant feature of his career now? He seemed to be doing a decent job, but a six week set back will make him rusty again.

 

Also, since the thread's been locked for Juvenile's topic on DeAndre Jordan's dunk on Brandon Knight. I'd heard about this beforehand and had a feeling that'd be what the topic was on after just reading the title - love the reaction shots of all the players.

[Funktipus]

Ugh, I'm guessing this is gonna be a constant feature of his career now? He seemed to be doing a decent job, but a six week set back will make him rusty again.

 

This will be a brutal 5-game west coast trip for the Knicks. I'll be satisified with 2-3.

 

The team is saying Carmelo MIGHT give it a go tonight against the Warriors.

[mark-2007]

I didn't catch any of the Knicks-Jazz match last night but my lawd, looking at that box score, that looks like one ugly game and one even uglier Knicks team. No Melo, Amar'e or Chandler. Kurt Thomas played nearly thirty minutes, Marcus Camby made an appearance, Kenyon Martin lacing up. They got the win though. Not sure what the Knicks' long-term plan is, what with the ancient relics of basketball they've collected, even their rookie is old - they're suffering enough this season from injuries and wear and tear so I'm wondering if and how they'll overhaul their roster this season.

 

I guess it's a "championship or bust" thing, but I can't see anyone beating the Heat in the East come April/June. I reckon the best way for the Knicks to build a genuine competing side is to get some cheap draft picks, people like Shumpert, and cheap, perhaps risky, free agents, a la J.R. Smith, but then don't plug the gaps with so many oldies.

 

EDIT: Nuggets are doing well too. Got their own winning streak going, thirteen now after beating the Thunder in OKC last night. Could jump up into the top four in the West, but they look a lock for at least top 5 with being eight games ahead of the Warriors.

 

Looking at the pay-off picture at, there's one thing I'm unsure. According to the NBA site, the Clippers are sitting 4th with a win % of 0.676, with Memphis above them in 3rd with 0.682 and Denver below in 5th with 0.681. How come the Clips aren't 5th and Denver 4th? Or is it that a team from each division has to be in the top four for some reason (what reason)?

Edited March 20, 2013 by mark-2007

[Bartleby]

New York won't have enough energy down the stretch, they have a bigger age problem than the Lakers do. Since Melo/Amare/Chandler all went down, I hear the Knicks are in talks about re-signing Patrick Ewing, as well as bringing in Kevin McHale and Jerry West for good measure.

 

No way the Knicks contend for a title this year. None. Which is such a shame because on paper, this team has loads of talent in what is clearly geared to be a win-now team. But while that ain't gonna happen without your key players, it certainly won't happen when even with a full roster you can't keep up with contenders on a consistent basis. If this keeps up, I'd be surprised if the Knicks make it to the second round.

 

But hey, better than being a Kings Sonics fan and having to watch the league's worst owners slowly disintegrate your favorite team just to spite both the league and the city that loves them, right? f*ck the Maloofs.

 

And I also noticed the standings. Not sure why it's like that either.

[mark-2007]

Yeah, that Seattle-Sacramento fiasco s a bit of a mess. Looks like there's an important meeting on April 3rd and then a decision will be made by the league. Last I heard the Sacramento offer that had bee patched together under the leadership of their mayor was a bit short of what was expected of them. I'd like t see a team back in Seattle, but it'd be a bit of a tainted and hollow victory for ex-Sonics fans. If they could only just relocate a team no-one pays attention to and wouldn't actually notice moving until the turn up in green and gold... like the Bobcats.

 

Speaking of Charlotte, I read a pretty interesting article on Grantland earlier today about tanking in order to get the top draft pick, check it out here.

 

TL;DR of the article is that rewarding the worst record with the best rookie encourages teams to tank, keeps incompetent GMs in jobs, and creates a losing mentality in some of the most promising players where they alone aren't enough to drag a team up to play-off contention. There's some interesting comments too beneath the article.

 

It raises a couple interesting ideas:

 

- Flipping the script and rewarding the NBA champions with the highest chances.

- Ditching the lottery entirely and allowing rookies to enter a free agent class.

 

Both of these would surely lead to a league where the best, big market teams simply snap up the best talent. Teams like Charlotte, Sacramento, Milwaukee are unattractive to free agents as it is, and so there'd be a high concentration (higher than it is already, even) of talent in the top teams. The author mentions some "trickle down" kinda bullsh*t but I don't see that working. What's more likely is that it becomes a league akin to the English Premier League, with the same two/three/at a push four teams being legitimate contenders and the rest hoping that a rich owner can fund their breakthrough. The salary cap would no doubt lessen this, and the NBA as to is today is hardly conducive to newcomer contenders, but you could most likely say goodbye to the likes of recent contenders in OKC and surprises like the Mavs in 2011.

 

A couple interesting comments beneath the article raised:

 

- The non-playoff team with the best record receives the most chance of drafting first - could lead to a Feb/March tank, as teams (for instance the Jazz and Lakers this year) prefer a hugely talented rookie to a likely first round exit in the playoffs.

- Expansion of the league into a two league system, with promotion and relegation - not sure if this exists in any sports over in the US, but it'd not only make headway into solving the problem with tanking, but also solve the Sacramento/Seattle situation too... attendance would be a problem considering how some teams already struggle.

- A tournament between the non-playoff teams in order to determine who draft first. Worst team in each conference gets a bye into the second round, best of three or even a single game format - I like the sound of this best.

 

Rambled on a bit, whoops. Anyone with thoughts?

[Ari Gold]

The core facts of the post are not even related to basketball since the example I'm using is from the Australian Football League, but I'm bringing it up because, well, despite being a completely different sport, the AFL has a similar draft-picking policy, and debate over tanking in the sport is rife. It's almost identical in that, more or less, the worse a team does in the ladder, the better draft picks it receives. Only last season they introduced a semi-free agency system where players who have been at a club for at least five years can freely enter negotiations with any other club, otherwise players can't really pick and choose who to play for, and can only switch teams through a direct trade, or if they're delisted by the club and re-drafted by another club.

 

One idea I have is to award the top draft picks to those clubs who just miss out on the play-off spots. So, the team which, between the two conferences, finishes 17th (or, merely, the highest-ranked team between the two conferences who doesn't reach the play-offs) would receive the top draft picks, going down in order to teams at the bottom, before resuming at the bottom of the play-off teams up the ladder. I personally think it'd be a great idea (especially for AFL - there'd have to be some tweaking to apply it to the NBA, obviously) since even if teams realise that they have no shot at a play-off berth whatsoever, there's still a very strong incentive not to throw away the rest of the season and to keep pushing for as many wins as possible in order to garner the best possible draft outcome. If you're at the bottom, why try and remain bottom when you can try and push to overtake even one or two other teams if it'll improve you're chances to pick better players in the draft? Such a simple rule change and I think it'd make the league far more interesting.

[mark-2007]

I dunno, I think reworking it so that the teams who just miss out on playoffs does make some sense. It allows the best players to go to teams in the best position to launch a serious playoff run, rather than some piss-poor Bobcats/Hornets-esque teams where the only thing they'll learn about is losing. It'll create a better quality of basketball too (or in your case, AFL), with teams trying hard in order to land the top pick.

 

However, can you really say that a team on the edge of playoff contention, like the Rockets/Lakers/Jazz this year in the West, will really want that 8th playoff seed, knowing that their chances of anything but being steamrollered by the top seed are slim (8th beating 1st has happened only four times in NBA history, though all within the past 20 years)? What's far more likely is that teams will perfect their tanking and, if they see their chances of a decent playoff seed slipping out of reach by February/March, they'll try and tank to get that 9th seed. True, it's a lot harder to do right than tanking for the worst record, but I reckon it'd still happen all the same.

 

EDIT:

 

Also, did anyone else see DeMarcus Cousins heinous foul on Chris Paul the other night? Disgusting...

 

[Funktipus]

Well, at least the Knicks got ONE win on the west coast trip, lol.

 

RIP to ex-Knick and Mt. Vernon native Ray Williams, younger brother of ex-Sonic Gus 'the Wizard' Williams. He lost his battle with colon cancer. Dude was only in his 50s.

[mark-2007]

Jesus, reading an article on Ray Williams to see who he was - long before I was paying attention to the NBA, or even born for that matter. 15.5 ppg and 5.8 apg are pretty good career averages though! I certainly should've known the name at least. Sounds like he had a tough job pot-NBA retirement, couldn't find a career and ended up bankrupt and homeless according to this news article.

 

For all players are much maligned for earning a ton of money - although I dunno how much they earned in the '80s, I imagine it'd still be a nice amount - they need more support. This is common in most professional sports, at least it in football over here in the UK (notably Paul Gascoigne and Lee Hendrie). Players often come from working class, inner city areas and spend their formative years preparing for a career in their sport so if that's cut short, or even if they are fortunate and talented enough to have long and illustrious careers (Allen Iverson, Scottie Pippen), they're not well placed to find something to do post-NBA. That combined with poor financial decisions is a recipe for bankruptcy and hardship post-retirement. There ought to be some NBA initiative, or even earlier at college level, to help players handle their money and help the find their feet post-retirement. There's probably something in place a it stands, but it's clearly not enough - in fact this article from Sports Illustrated states that 60% of NBA players are broke within five years of retirement.

 

RIP.

 

Lightening the mood a bit, did anyone see CP3's game-winner vs. the Nets?

 

 

 

He switches hands twice in mid-air, has three players around him, yet still manages to make it and get the and-1. Pretty good.

[Funktipus]

Good stuff mark. Yeah, Ray fell on hard times post-retirement, then his illness made things worse. He & Michael Ray Richardson were fun to watch back then.

 

As for Miami, even if they match or break the '71-'72 Lakers win streak, LA's was more impressive. 18 of their wins were on consecutive nights, and they played FOUR back-to-back-to-backs. Incredible.

[InstantCClassic]

Good fight Miami. It was only fitting for my team to end the streak. This is definitely a morale victory for not only us, but the entire Eastern Conference(Indiana, Boston, New York)

 

Oh, and Lebron would not survive in the 90s era.....i.e Bad Boy Detroit Pistons.....

[Funktipus]

Good fight Miami. It was only fitting for my team to end the streak. This is definitely a morale victory for not only us, but the entire Eastern Conference(Indiana, Boston, New York)

 

Oh, and Lebron would not survive in the 90s era.....i.e Bad Boy Detroit Pistons.....

Shoot, you can go back further than the 90s. Folks talk about how physical the Bulls/Heat game was. Please, that was arm wrestling compared to what I saw in the 70s. Dave Cowens & Paul Silas should be arrested for what they did to opponents. You can't let cats in the paint and not make them pay. But these days, you can't touch wing players anymore, just like you can't touch WRs in the NFL. Both leagues have become soft - they want more offense and less defense.

 

Knicks are on a mini-roll - JR is playing lights out, and Kenyon has been a pleasant surprise. If they can get consistent offense from Shump, they can make some noise.