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Flame

HRT 1.4

Recommended Posts

Lennie.

If you want help I'm in..

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Flame

Thanks for your readiness to help me, I'll try to finish the work alone.

 

Lennie, that place will be fixed by me, or I include fixes by Aztecas_5's.

 

 

LAn, № 24:

Another visit to Pershing Square and Police Station

 

I offer you again to visit Pershing Park and to look at the police station building, note on the inscriptions on the last image — they explain you some details.

 

0_1b6908_35a21fd3_M.jpg 0_1b6909_8bfd6a9e_M.jpg

 

0_1b690a_a01fcc82_M.jpg 0_1b690b_15af6270_M.jpg

 

You can see these screenshots also on Mod DB

 

Read news about this on hrt-mod.com:

LAn: Another visit to Pershing Square and Police Station

Edited by Flame

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MrMateczko

It's amazing how one scene can show why HRT 1.4 is so awesome :)

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Flame

I glad that you think so, MrMateczko. Soon will be new images. :)

Edited by Flame

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little_idiot

Having 2Gb of RAM for my PC seems that 1025Mb is a limit for me in terms of Streaming Memory. Installed are following mods:

- RoSA (with mip-maps);

- BSOR;

- all peds replaced;

- all weapons replaced;

- all vehicles replaced.

 

ZMZx.jpg

 

Once reached 1000 + smth Mb my game freezes\craches\no models loading and so on.

So the question is very simple: Flame, do you have same issues at certain point when stream memory reaches 1Gb? Is there any ways to clean it? Just wondering how it is possible for you to develop HRT when we all have this dumb problem?

Thanks!

Edited by little_idiot

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Reyks

(...) You should unite with smb else, create some kind a team. You could post list of textures that ain't done yet, so everyone who would like to help,will have a chance to do it, for example, send a texture via email and you can decide is it good enough for hrt or not. (...)

Good idea! Somebody like Flame needs people he can really really really rely on, tho (not somebody who will quit this team because of life or something without telling). Choosing the right people is tough.

Man if only Ash was still around, that would be a perfect team.

 

Once reached 1000 + smth Mb my game freezes\craches\no models loading and so on.

So the question is very simple: Flame, do you have same issues at certain point when stream memory reaches 1Gb? Is there any ways to clean it? Just wondering how it is possible for you to develop HRT when we all have this dumb problem?

Thanks!

He's aware of those issues,

. The only way to avoid this kind of stuff at the moment it is by using less streaming memory I would say around 256mb or so, anything above is bound to have issues at some point.

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Silent

Man if only Ash was still around, that would be a perfect team.

He'd rage at Flame for using outdated tools :(

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The_GTA
Once reached 1000 + smth Mb my game freezes\craches\no models loading and so on.

 

So the question is very simple: Flame, do you have same issues at certain point when stream memory reaches 1Gb? Is there any ways to clean it? Just wondering how it is possible for you to develop HRT when we all have this dumb problem?

Thanks!

Good point. GTA:SA is a 32bit application. Let's hope textures will not be too big. Using a 64bit OS increases the amount of memory GTA:SA can use.

 

I am pretty sure Flame has his mod tested out thoroughly, so don't worry. :)

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Flame

Having 2Gb of RAM for my PC seems that 1025Mb is a limit for me in terms of Streaming Memory. Installed are following mods:

- RoSA (with mip-maps);

- BSOR;

- all peds replaced;

- all weapons replaced;

- all vehicles replaced.

 

ZMZx.jpg

 

Once reached 1000 + smth Mb my game freezes\craches\no models loading and so on.

So the question is very simple: Flame, do you have same issues at certain point when stream memory reaches 1Gb? Is there any ways to clean it? Just wondering how it is possible for you to develop HRT when we all have this dumb problem?

Thanks!

 

Hello, little_idiot. Thanks for the interest to my mod. I really know about this memory problem, but at the same time I do not know, how to decide this. This is programmer's work. GTA-modding does not stay in place and sooner or later will be released something, which can help us fix some bad consequences.

 

It does not affect on the development of the mod in any case.
What about work of the mod with all these limits. Strangely enough, but when I test it (sometimes I just run in the game about an hour) all work good (x64 system, 8 GB RAM). When I see inappropriate behaviour of the game, I try to optimise textures, and then everything good again. So, I think that game with mod will work good, at least without trees, new peds and new cars.
Edited by Flame

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Silent

Using a 64bit OS increases the amount of memory GTA:SA can use.

Not by default.

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The_GTA

Not by default.

I am pretty sure you refer to IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE, while I was referring to the OS physical memory usage.

 

Imagine you forgot to close your Firefox process when playing GTA:SA, thats a 400mb. The 32bit OS has to map them somewhere inside the 4gb, and memory fills up

pretty fast. Kernel drivers and shared modules (mapped to upper mem) take like 1gb.

The advantage on a 64bit machine with 8gb of memory is that the OS can map Firefox and the kernel drivers onto the upper 4gb of physical memory, and instead map

your game onto the lower 4gb.

 

I'd dare to say that the memory manager has a hard time making even those 2gb available for GTA:SA because it is a 32bit machine.

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LINK/2012

but MMU

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Flame

LAn, № 25:
LODs


In game is using Level of Detail (LOD) method, when main object have a worse version; this low quality object you see only on far distance from main object (for better performance). In HRT for better quality of graphics are replaced not only textures of main objects, but and textures of LODs (we will say LODs in meaning «LQ versions of objects»).

You can see, how look improved LODs on screenshots from LAn section of Los Santos. These are screenshots from map editor and I enabled displaying only LODs.

Improved LODs with active using of MIP mapping (another feature of the mod) makes really better draw distance in the game!

0_1bbd7f_2bae90dc_M.jpg 0_1bbd83_d8a78e8e_M.jpg

0_1bbd86_cb3ccfbd_M.jpg

You can see these screenshots also on Mod DB


Read news about this on hrt-mod.com:
LAn: LODs

Read also:
Ads by hosting, goodbye. Help the site


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Silent

Mipmaps on LODs? Pretty useless though, since they'll be stuck on the lowest mip 99% of the time.

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Reyks

Mipmaps on LODs? Pretty useless though, since they'll be stuck on the lowest mip 99% of the time.

#silentpatchit?

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Silent

#notabug

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El Dorado

#thenmakeitasaimprovement

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miclin

#silentPATCHnotUPDATE

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Flame

I did not write somewhere about mip maps on LODs, be careful. Silent, if you do not like mod or me - do not write something in this thread and do not provoke me - I will use that programs which I like.

 

Thanks.

 

By the way, earlier I tested adding of MIP maps on LODs and result was not bad.

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George Costanza

How is he provocating you? He is just said it's not needed because it has low to almost no effect

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Silent

I did not write somewhere about mip maps on LODs, be careful. Silent

 

Improved LODs with active using of MIP mapping

I wasn't even remotely criticizing, but I see you don't like any kind of advice. Fine, your choice.

Edited by Silent

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El Dorado

First, I need to say that I'm very excited about this project, not only you are retexturing, but also fixing models. And I know there are a lot of wrong models in this game.

Well, for mipmapping or lods or whatever I can't say nothing because I don't know what to talk about

For tools, I need to side with Silent. I do understand your point of view, for a project in this size, you need something easy to work with. There are modern and better tools to do this kind of job, and the resutl is very significative, not day-night difference, but still. And sadly this new tools are not that user friendly like the classic ones. That's one of the reasons that I said and say again: The community needs to imrpove these tools, to be a total replacement fo TXD workshopr or G-TXD, but maintening the user friendly side and at the same time bringing in the new technologies

Edited by El Dorado

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DK22Pac

The community needs to imrpove these tools, to be a total replacement fo TXD workshopr or G-TXD, but maintening the user friendly side and at the same time bringing in the new technologies

More patience please.

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El Dorado

We will have sir, we will have.

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Flame

I want to clarify some aspects.

I have a very positive attitude to Silent's works and do not have something against advices. But only if these advices made with good intentions, not haughtily.

I insist on tolerance of other opinion.

When Silent said once that I use old programs - this is normal. When two times - this is too much, but still okay. But when this was said for ten times - this looks like a trying to irritate me.

I never came to Silent's threads to teach he something.

So, I have the right stand by my opinion. Even when it is wrong.

I like these old tools and mod will look very good with using them. We are talking about modding, about soft that created by modders for modders, not professional programs. I don't use Photoshop 1.0 to ask me to go to the more modern version. :) TXD Workshop and G-TXD are cult programs and practically the only one of its kind. I do not understand when I see insults against these programs. For the years, I learned to avoid all their flaws and final textures can be improved with other tools. Of course, I only support when modders create new tools, I always applaud to any progress and evolution in GTA modding world.

What about MIP maps. My English still is far from ideal, I can say something not very clear or correct. I didn't mean in that post that I use MIP maps on LODs (despite on that I trying to do this and result is not bad), I said that in the mod are using and MIP maps (for the main textures), and improved LODs.

Now again my main trough. If a person has a different opinion - no need to constantly teach him.

Edited by Flame

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MrMateczko

I said this before, let him just do the textures and models, after all this hard work, we'll decide on the final touches.

Calm down everyone!

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The_GTA

Now again my main trough. If a person has a different opinion - no need to constantly teach him.

I have always respected your opinion, Flame. Do not let good old Silent get to you. You must have heard a lot of people recommend x and y during HRT development, lol. And I do not mind either on matters concerning my behalf. Let's just calm down. :)

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Silent

Hey, Ash here posting from the dead as I feel like some stuff should be cleared up here cause there's some shade being thrown around here in regards to this and textures in general. :p

 

Firstly I respect Flame and understand the stress of such a large project such as this and just how draining it can be at times, not to also mention that he's taking on San Andreas as well where as I've only gone through Vice City (but had to collect textures from various other Rockstar Games inc. San Andreas) but I do feel the need to point out some issues in his previous comments not to insult, but to help others understand that basically we're just different in style.

 

I like these old tools and mod will look very good with using them. We are talking about modding, about soft that created by modders for modders, not professional programs. I don't use Photoshop 1.0 to ask me to go to the more modern version. :) TXD Workshop and G-TXD are cult programs and practically the only one of its kind. I do not understand when I see insults against these programs. For the years, I learned to avoid all their flaws and final textures can be improved with other tools.

Mainly this part, which I want to break down...

"mod will look very good with them" - Yes, for the utter basics, these tools will allow you to replace older textures with different ones and higher resolution if you wish, they won't look the best they can be, but on a basic level, they will do the job and can be used in small doses as I'll explain later.

 

"soft created by modders for modders" - So DK isn't a modder? ;)

 

"I do not understand when I see insults against these programs" - I guess it's because you don't understand just how much these programs lend themselves to actually BREAKING the game by corruption, that is the main fault here, TXDWorkshop especially repacks textures in a way that can slightly mess the header each time and will slowly build up over time causing the game to just say "f*ck It!" and crash at loading, that's one of the small reasons why large scale projects such as this can work for one person, but when another person installs it to their game, suddenly everything doesn't work.

 

"I learned to avoid all their flaws..." - How did you avoid header corruption, outdated compression codecs and lack of support for other image formats?

 

"...and final textures can be improved with other tools" - OK, No, Noooo, no no no, here lies a problem which affects quality overall in these situations, once you compress a texture, that's it, the quality of the original is downgraded, to then say others should extract these already compressed textures to then run them through other compressions degrading the quality further just to add in features that should be done at packing point is just a daft move. DON'T encourage people to rip these textures, if you want people to play with them further, then upload the SOURCE textures before compression so people can pack them how they wish.

 

Now I do understand though, you've already started this project a long time ago, you've got your ways, hell, if you're like me then you'll want to keep your formats unified, so I REALLY understand the fear and how draining it would be to switch now (trust me, I do, I've had to do it for VCS PC when Silent added YCoCg Texture Support), especially with the size of San Andreas. I also understand how easier it is to use these old programs since you just go in and replace what you want, where as the modern style requires you to have every texture ready, NOT just the ones you want to replace (but it IS easier when you've already gathered to generate a new TXD, short term vs long term, etc). We all have our ways but I am one of those people who would prefer a push to be made to use the modern style, not just for improved image quality but also for improved game support and the freedom to let people experiment with different formats.

 

But again, I understand how starting a project in one style means you'll want to finish that project in the same way, HRT has been around for years, long before MagicTXD and the addition format support was done and whilst you COULD then do new TXD's in the modern style, it would be jarring to what you've done in the past with the other say 85% of the files, so I can understand that, especially the "Oh now those are in THIS format but the REST are NOT" annoyance thing going on.

 

Is Silent wrong to keep mentioning it, maybe, but he's also a big supporter of modern tools and wants to push them to get people away from using the old ones. As far as I'm aware he was also responding to someone who suggested that I should join the team if I wasn't banned, and Silent is sorta right in this case, I wouldn't quite rage at you, but I'd just decline to work with you as our styles are completely different and personally for me I wouldn't want to go back and use TXDWorkshop or G-TXD ever again, from here on out if I'm involved in any GTA texture work, I'll be using the modern tools, but I do think you should carry on here, it's a massive project and I'd be interested to see if you ever make it up to the desert areas and Venturas.

 

No hard feelings eh, re-texturing is draining enough without having to cause a stance change on top of that! :p

 

^ This really isn't my wall of text, I'm just forwarding. So please don't take this as yet another attempt of Silent trying to annoy me.

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Flame

Okay, Silent, thanks that you are forwarded to me Ash's answer (and I want to say again that I don't want any conflicts).

I understand your position and I can agree with you, Ash. And thanks for your answer. I am very impressed by the work that you - I mean all the team - spend with ViceCityStories PC Edition.

I perfectly understand situations, when these old tools can just irritate; TXD Workshop really can break the header of the file, one rescue in this case - to make a copy of TXD before manipulations that can cause damage. For some reason, I'm sure that HRT will be incredibly stable, despite these nuances.

And yes, development was started a long time ago, I have already passed a long way with that tools, and I do not want to switch it's style, at least now; I want to continue the mod as I know and can, and, in my own way, I will try to achieve good results; and if I change my mind - I'm willing to remade some things. Also I really want that modern tools have a comfortable and easy GUI, I really respect the work of the guys who still want to make GTA modding better.

 

Edited by Flame

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El Dorado

Speaking about it, when your work is done, do you plan to release the source textures, ready to be packed into txds?

Edited by El Dorado

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