Piracy and V

[Mokrie Dela]

So a thought just occured to me, and im not sure if it's been done before. If it has, please politely point me to the correct topic, and do not reply. If this topic is cloned, please do not spam it with pointless posts.

 

 

OT:

 

I was just thinking about Piracy and games, more noticably the antipiracy measures. Batman: AA had something in, that if you played illegally patched versions, certain features didn't work (possibly a bug, but its what i heard). And PC users will be aware of some of the measures taken to prevent piracy.

 

But do we think V will take any different approaches to piracy or, more likely, will they parody it in game or make references to it?

 

As a console (360) user, i don't know of any measures beyond the "online pass" that EA and so many other selfish companies use, and they seem to be designed to rape the preowned market, more than counter piracy.

 

With SOPA and PIRA distant memories (and the outside threat of them returning), It seems to me that Piracy is very much a big part of the modern entertainment world.

 

I'm not too aware of what measures R* could take to counter piracy, but i do know that often such measures are counter productive.

 

Now to the in game stuff. As mentioned SOPA was a big thing. With V taking place in today's world (presumably), it would make sense for piracy to feature in some form. Perhaps on the radio, perhaps a few missions connected to it. Would it be a good or bad idea for R* to parody what was such a huge deal? would it gain them more enemies.

 

Anyway im interested to hear your thoughts on both how V may tackle piracy, or if/how it'll potray it in game.

 

Discuss (and please, no spam or bs posts. Thank you).

[koothara]

If we can shutdown piratebay 50% of piracy will be stopped(shutting down megaupload is a good example).Piratebay is the main enemy of PC gaming.

[Ispintechno]

If we can shutdown piratebay 50% of piracy will be stopped(shutting down megaupload is a good example).Piratebay is the main enemy of PC gaming.

There are a dozen decent torrent sites. You shut one down another gets better.

 

Its the same as the war on drugs. Good luck.

[Exkabewbikadid]

If what happened with LA Noire is any sort of precedent, then V may end up using Softwaresheild IronWrap, which means that the files would be encrypted and modding the game will not happen. Supposedly Max Payne 3 will use this DRM as well.

 

Now personally, I couldn't give two sh*ts less about modding because 99% of mods are sh*t anyways, but this will be detrimental to the online community. I hold the opinion that if you pay for a software license, then you should have every right to tinker with the software on your own computer. Hopefully they will not be implementing such DRM with V, but I won't be surprised if it happens.

 

As for parodying it, probably not. Publishers would rather deny the existence of piracy beyond their justifying the use of DRM. No sense in drawing attention to something you don't want people doing.

[Simon_V]

There will always be PIRACY, no matter what they do, as for Rockstar Games and V, I think they're not bothered... every game from Rockstar Games made Millions.

 

Example: San Andreas on PlayStation 2... Note: ''The PS2 was/is the most pirated console''

 

PS: R* has to make fun of piracy.

[Ispintechno]

Piracy always will be around, and I think the number of people who want to pay for entertainment vs the number of people who steal it will remain fairly constant. I don't think publishers have to worry about going broke or losing their shirt over it.

 

Since the 80's music was free too anybody with a dual cassette ghetto blaster. Movies where free to anybody with two VHS machines. If you had a commodore 64 you could copy all your friends games and double side your disks using a pair of scissors to get even more.

 

When it comes to games most people are happy to pay for it, and the number of people who don't want to will stay the same whether it is hard or easy.

[DeafMetal]

There will always be PIRACY, no matter what they do, as for Rockstar Games and V, I think they're not bothered... every game from Rockstar Games made Millions.

 

Example: San Andreas on PlayStation 2... Note: ''The PS2 was/is the most pirated console''

 

PS: R* has to make fun of piracy.

This. Did you know that GTA:SA is still being sold? o.O We're nearing the end of this console generation and that game, which was on the last generation, is STILL selling enough to be manufactured.

[tomino]

Hello (1st post)

I am not sure if i want piracy to stop...

I bought gtaiv in pc the second day it came out. I go home happy and install it. I am prepared to play for 10 hours but the first time i tried it, i get a message that my dvd is not legal . I try again nothing, i unistall and reinstall nothing. 10 days i was trying and the game started in 1 of 15 efforts.

So after this dissapointment i installed the crack and my game-life became easier. Of course rockstar fixed this after one year of patches, but i would be realy angry if i was to wait one year with a 40 euro game that i could not play!!!

So, if this is going to happen again, i say yes to piracy.

[Mokrie Dela]

 

If what happened with LA Noire is any sort of precedent, then V may end up using Softwaresheild IronWrap, which means that the files would be encrypted and modding the game will not happen.  Supposedly Max Payne 3 will use this DRM as well.

 

Now personally, I couldn't give two sh*ts less about modding because 99% of mods are sh*t anyways, but this will be detrimental to the online community.  I hold the opinion that if you pay for a software license, then you should have every right to tinker with the software on your own computer.  Hopefully they will not be implementing such DRM with V, but I won't be surprised if it happens.

 

As for parodying it, probably not.  Publishers would rather deny the existence of piracy beyond their justifying the use of DRM.  No sense in drawing attention to something you don't want people doing.

 

Modding. I didn't think of that. Encryption would be harmful to that, yes, and am i not right when i say these very forums were created by the modding community? So if it was not for modding, these forums wouldn't exist?

 

Anyway i wonder that, if it wasnt for R*'s f*ck up with hot coffee, that we might have seen some form of modding support?

 

We've also seen mods that put Vice city in San andreas, or VC in III, effectively pirating the game onto another. That's an interesing thought. Officially i suppose R* may oppose modding - there's been a lot of conversation about that - but secretly they must like it or something.

 

As long as there's games they will be pirated and posts above are right that it will never fully stop.

 

@tomino, i'd be careful giving backing to piracy on these boards - to mods: don't remove the comment (unless directly linking to piracy) as i want this to be an open conversation.

 

I have to admit to using a CD crack with SA. My disc had a crack (ironic) in it so I didn't want to run the risk of it breaking. The game was 100% legal though, and i may still have the disc to prove it, and the disc was also "version 2" the unmoddable one. So the patch allowed me to mod. It's a grey subject, and one officially outlawed on these forums,

 

As for your and my problems, DVDs are redundant now. With services like STEAM and D2D (and the next xbox supposedly not having a DVD drive) i think the future of games is download only. That'd solve the Disc space issues, and the weakpoint of disc drives (transfer rates between the drive etc and the heating up discs always have).

 

Download only games - how can THEY tackle piracy? What's stopping you copying the game to a flashdrive and giving it to your mates?

If they prevent that, what if you took the game round to play with a mate? Or bought a new console? Would we have USB activation decives that you plug in and can only play the game with one connected? I think World of Warcraft had something similar.

 

Audio now has a system that if you rip and burn a song you'll get nothing but digi-noise. I've heard it and it sucks.

 

We bought the game/music, we should be able to mod/remix it, rip it, burn it to a CD (who made a CD for car journeys when they were young) or whatever. I believe that piracy is bad now because of the aggresive steps taken to counter it.

 

PS @tomino, I personally class a no CD crack, in the instance we both explained, as NOT piracy. If you bought the game legally, like i did, and it just broke or something, then imo there's no issue. But it's a touchy subject on these boards. Im gonna edit my first post to include this but seeing as it's your first post, let me say this:

Please remember to NOT link or mention ANY service that provides these cracks in this topic, or any other. Mentioning "a cd crack" is ok in this topic, if mentioned generally ("getting a no cd crack due to a damaged disc bought legally" is fine, "I copied my mate's directory and got a no cd crack from http://madeupnocdcrackwarezpiracywebsite.net" is not ok). So be careful what you say on that subject.

 

But that doesnt mean we can't discuss the subject, just avoid endorsing such measures, and stress that you're obeying the law (i would never dream of pirating GTA in any way shape or form, as i love the game and wouldnt want to take from R*)

Edited March 26, 2012 by Mokrie Dela

[tomino]

Ok, i am sorry if i broke any rule. If there is a problem, a mod should remove my post.

Offtopic: [My dvd had no problem, i still play gtaiv with the dvd. Maybe it was a hardware bug, and of course i play now without a crack or no-cd patch because i said earlier that rockstar fixed it. I like to buy the cd-dvd because of the case book and the poster ]

All i want to say is that sometimes they put "hard" security in their games that in the end they cause problem to people who legaly own it. I was inserting and ejecting my dvd and people who downloaded it was already in algonquin... And people say ( i don't know, i am not a technician) that gta's security is eating a lot of resources and make the game run a little slower.

I don't know, maybe they should try a different road for security.

[UtricularEwe001]

why do you want to stop piracy

 

then how am i supposed to play EA games

 

and as for GTA 5,whoever pirate this game should be ....well executed

[Celticfang]

From my experiences with Steam, I know for certain there's pirate copies of IV and EFLC on some sites that neeed you to sign up and download fake clients.

 

As far as digital distribution and modding, it's a double edged sword. R* can never offically support modding, and services like Steam or D2D auto-update games and wipe mods off of installs.

 

I've been on boards wihere 95% of users there admit to pirating software, not just GTA, but any software, then whine and moan when said boards get hammered with TOS violations.

[IBrahemoX1X]

i'm just gonna say not anyone can afford buying a 60 $ game or music .

 

in my country there's no original game retailer just the virgen mega store , in it's in another city ,

 

the dollar is high against my currency that mean the 60$ is a very high price , .

 

not anyone can afford so please don't come talking about PIRACY , ,, and R* isn't VERY GREEDY like EA .

[Shreddy Krueger]

If what happened with LA Noire is any sort of precedent, then V may end up using Softwaresheild IronWrap, which means that the files would be encrypted and modding the game will not happen. Supposedly Max Payne 3 will use this DRM as well.

 

Now personally, I couldn't give two sh*ts less about modding because 99% of mods are sh*t anyways, but this will be detrimental to the online community. I hold the opinion that if you pay for a software license, then you should have every right to tinker with the software on your own computer. Hopefully they will not be implementing such DRM with V, but I won't be surprised if it happens.

 

As for parodying it, probably not. Publishers would rather deny the existence of piracy beyond their justifying the use of DRM. No sense in drawing attention to something you don't want people doing.

I agree with you for the most part. I'm a console gamer so modding is out of the question for me. But when you say you should be able to tinker with the product after purchasing it, that's actually directly against the language of the law (at least where I live, forgive me if the piracy laws are different in your neck of the woods). The general language for purchasing software such as a video game are along the lines that basically state that when you purchase a game, your purchasing THE RIGHT TO USE THE SOFTWARE AS THE SELLER INTENDED, thus effectively making 'modding' illegal. Purchasing a game does NOT mean you OWN the code that is copied onto that disc, you simply purchased the right to hold it and use it. However, lots of game developers realize that modding actually makes the community stronger for a particular game so they don't go about shutting it down, etc etc.

 

Anyway, I'm not intending to start an argument or anything, just throwing my 2 cents in about the whole modding thing.

[Turbojohn]

I'm pretty sure that if you use a copied version of GTA IV the camera gets shaky. Like when you are drunk ingame. But it's constant.

I know this cause I downloaded the game to see if my computer could handle it. As I would just waste money on a game I wouldn't be able to play. After playing it. That happened. Since I could run the game. I bought it.

I'm not saying I'm a pirate. I never pirate unless on occasions like this. And if I like the game I buy it. If I don't I won't even play it for more then an hour before deleting it.

But yeah I'm sure GTA V could do something like that. Something that would actually be funny. Like you randomly start getting chased by the cops. It would be hilarious and ironic. Also seeing some idiots on youtube saying they found a bug in the game that makes them start getting chased at random.

[Gtaghost22]

and as for GTA 5,whoever pirate this game should be ....well executed

This

[Mokrie Dela]

Ok, i am sorry if i broke any rule

You havnt (at least I don't think you have). Just warning you in advance.

 

@Shreddy Krueger: that's exactly what I want, a discussion about piracy and how it could affect gta v. I see no argument. You're fine

 

Fair point though - you're paying for the liscence to play the game, not owning the code. Hmmm

 

The idea of non legit games having a constant 6 star wanted level makes me laugh.

The thought of pirate morons getting the game illegally then complaining about 'bugs' is entertaining. How does it work though - how does the game know its legit or pirated? What's stopping the pirates from circumnavigating this measure?

[cryptorelic]

I know a lot of guys who will illegal download GTA V. I also know a lot of guys who illegal downloaded GTA IV for all kind of consoles. PS3 / Xbox 360 and PC. Guess from where ? The Pirate Bay

[xNewtype Acex]

 

R* can never offically support modding.

 

Uhhh, yes, yes they can, many developers do, like Bethesda and GSC.

 

 

and services like Steam or D2D auto-update games and wipe mods off of installs.

 

But that's wrong, ever heard of the Steam Workshop?

 

Officially supported by Valve and other developers that use it, it will eve update all mods automatically for you.

 

So yeah, you don't know what you're talking about if you think developers don't care about mods.

Edited March 26, 2012 by xNewtype Acex

[boxmonster]

Pirates can clearly say GTA IV's subliminal messaging made them do it.

[Freezer89]

If we can shutdown piratebay 50% of piracy will be stopped(shutting down megaupload is a good example).Piratebay is the main enemy of PC gaming.

50% of piracy will be stopped? Yeah, sure..

 

There aren't only torrents. You forgot the hundreds one-click-hoster and usenet-services. And the shutdown of megaupload changed nothing. As already said, there will always be piracy.

[TheDavid]

If you say that mods build this forum, you're a fool.

 

For the longest time, the forum did not support mods, and any mod discussion was forced in the mod topic. Support wouldn't be offered if you had installed mods.

 

I think GTA built this forum, but don't hold me to that.

[Long_Haired_Boy]

I think fans of GTA built this forum. Could be wrong tho.

[Celticfang]

R* can never offically support modding.

 

Uhhh, yes, yes they can, many developers do, like Bethesda and GSC.

 

 

and services like Steam or D2D auto-update games and wipe mods off of installs.

 

But that's wrong, ever heard of the Steam Workshop?

 

Officially supported by Valve and other developers that use it, it will eve update all mods automatically for you.

 

So yeah, you don't know what you're talking about if you think developers don't care about mods.

No, R* cannot legally support things like car mods that use actual vehicles (with licensed content, e.g. a Mercedes replacing a Schafter) as they'd then be using vehicles they hadn't got the license for, leaving them open to being sued over copyright claims, or actual names that they have not got the rights to use.

 

For instance in RDR if they wanted to include Seabiscuit as an easter egg but couldn't get the rights (which happens more often than people think), R* would have to change that easter egg to comply if they did not sign a deal to use Seabiscuit in RDR. Or Secretariat, or a 1900s train, or a revolver, the list goes on.

 

Or if they use licensed songs, they have to go to a record company and buy a license to use the song in that game. Suppose they buy a license for GTAIV. That license only covers GTAIV, They can't use it in EFLC, III, SA, VC or V, they would have to get a license for each individual game. Whereas if they negotiated a license to use (say) Lady Gaga on the RAGE engine, they could use Poker Face on IV, EFLC, V, any V DLC and upcoming RAGE games.

 

The problem arises when modders put their own, again, licensed things in without paying licensing costs. It's been done to death in various topics as to why R* can't use cars, modders can, but they face a hefty legal penalty if they get caught (not just a mod removal as people think). For instance, last year, Indycar forced a take down of a fan-made mod of the 2010 season, and threatened the modders with legal action if they released a mod. Back in 2005, FIRST (owners of iRacing) sued and lost in court againt somebody modding one of Papyrus' games

 

To use your Bethesda example, let's suppose in the next Fallout game there's a gun that looks and sounds identical to the M16. They can't call it that though, as they'd have to go to Colt and sit down and negotiate the rights for the M16 to be in the game. A fan made mod could, in theory, put an M16 in, but it would again be risking running foul of copyright infringement.

 

GSC have (as of January and RPS at least) closed their doors, however playing through the STALKER series, they went with generic names as did GTA out of the box. I may be wrong however, I haven't played any of the STALKER games in a year.

 

Steam does in fact auto update games. For instance: I purchased Wargame: European Escalation, it has had several patches and updates, I modded files, they got reset to the default files by the updates.

 

Steam Workshop

 

So I do actually know what I am talking about.

[Sneakerhead.]

Pirates can clearly say GTA IV's subliminal messaging made them do it.

Pirate Games

Well then, that must of ment that rockstar probably knew there games would be pirated or they already knew it was going to happen.

[MIKON8ERISBACK]

Although PS3 games are free of region restrictions, both the Xbox 360 and PS3 use Advanced Access Content System. Pirates ALWAYS find ways to circumvent it, just remember what Razor1911 did with SecuROM and GTA IV.

[Mokrie Dela]

If you say that mods build this forum, you're a fool.

 

For the longest time, the forum did not support mods, and any mod discussion was forced in the mod topic. Support wouldn't be offered if you had installed mods.

 

I think GTA built this forum, but don't hold me to that.

Modding brought me here and I was part of the modding community. The I started posting I other areas. Without modding I wouldn't have signed up - that's what I meant

 

Back on topic, @celticfang, very good point there. Liscences and rights to names would have an impact on this. I can see now the scope of piracy that modding can allow. Mods that change the radio to include songs not under liscense by R* would technically be pirated, and of the mod became widespread enough, there may be resulting legal action against R*. So modding CAN be considered an aid to piracy.

 

Btw, I can sense a 'mod' discussion arising - please keep any discussion relevant to the topic thanks

[Vanzant]

There will always be PIRACY, no matter what they do, as for Rockstar Games and V, I think they're not bothered... every game from Rockstar Games made Millions.

 

Example: San Andreas on PlayStation 2... Note: ''The PS2 was/is the most pirated console''

 

PS: R* has to make fun of piracy. 

This. Did you know that GTA:SA is still being sold? o.O We're nearing the end of this console generation and that game, which was on the last generation, is STILL selling enough to be manufactured.

The SONY manufacturing plant 45 minutes away from me still runs copies of GTA: San Andreas and get this, Final Fantasy 8 for Playstation 1.

[Finn 7 five 11]

 

Piracy always will be around, and I think the number of people who want to pay for entertainment vs the number of people who steal it will remain fairly constant. I don't think publishers have to worry about going broke or losing their shirt over it.

Exactly this, piracy has been happening for A very long time, people used to pirate vinyls.

I always held the belief that people who pirate were never going to buy the game unless they could get it free.

 

Mokrie Dela, if someone mods the game to have their own music, it is not piracy if the person owns the game and the songs, so if they bought the cd with those songs, they can use it for their personal use.

Besides many games allow you to play your own music through radio, and how is it different to having music blasting through your stereo behind you?

 

Oh yeah, unrelated but "the pirates bay" is hilarious! The name is ingenious and they are blatantly advertising themselves as pirates and have gotten away with it for much longer than other moe discrete torrents.

Edited March 26, 2012 by finn4life

[Mokrie Dela]

Mokrie Dela, if someone mods the game to have their own music, it is not piracy if the person owns the game and the songs, so if they bought the cd with those songs, they can use it for their personal use.

Besides many games allow you to play your own music through radio, and how is it different to having music blasting through your stereo behind you?

Maybe i didn't explain it fully. I was on my phone and the web browser on it sucks.

 

If i make a radio mod, including all music i'd bought, then packaged it on GTA Garage, as a mod, and other people downloaded it, they'd be getting said music for free. Technically speaking that's piracy

 

Or if i edited GTA IV's TV shows to feature episodes of the simpsons. IF i distributed that mod, that would be pirating the episodes. That's what i meant, perhaps i forgot to specify that part....