F*CK DLC

[Pat]

 

why should people who have paid nothing for this content be entitled to it for free and you find it aceptable that me and a 100000's of other fans loose out on our 20 pounds now that would be worse business practice for sure!

The content should have never been charged extra for in the first place, which means that if we had our way, you and all of those other people would never have been required to spend twenty pounds for content that should have already been in the game (and partially was). Even if they decided to release the content for free now, refunds are possible for people who bought the content. They won't, though; trying to convince EA that they made a mistake is like trying to convince you that what BioWare did was disrespectful to their customers and is an action that should not be supported.

[Jay]

Absolutely, incomprehensibly wrong. The day that the sentiment "the customer is always right" becomes false is the day that corporations rule our lives and we are forced to do whatever they tell us to do - kind of like a famous novel by George Orwell, perhaps you're familiar with it, it goes by the name "1984."

 

 

Well it's already dead and gone by my books anyway.

Anyone who has worked retail not hesitating for a second to dance on its grave, either.

 

The customer is always a c*nt.

[Mark]

Absolutely, incomprehensibly wrong. The day that the sentiment "the customer is always right" becomes false is the day that corporations rule our lives and we are forced to do whatever they tell us to do - kind of like a famous novel by George Orwell, perhaps you're familiar with it, it goes by the name "1984."

 

 

Well it's already dead and gone by my books anyway.

Anyone who has worked retail not hesitating for a second to dance on its grave, either.

 

The customer is always a c*nt.

Yep, having spent my entire working life (lol only 5 years I know) in a customer service role across quite a few companies, it's a case of our rules, buy this sh*t or f*ck off. We're not interested in what your opinions are. We offer something, you pay for it. Want more? Pay more. Our product, our rules. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

[OysterBarron]

 

why should people who have paid nothing for this content be entitled to it for free and you find it aceptable that me and a 100000's of other fans loose out on our 20 pounds now that would be worse business practice for sure!

The content should have never been charged extra for in the first place, which means that if we had our way, you and all of those other people would never have been required to spend twenty pounds for content that should have already been in the game (and partially was). Even if they decided to release the content for free now, refunds are possible for people who bought the content. They won't, though; trying to convince EA that they made a mistake is like trying to convince you that what BioWare did was disrespectful to their customers and is an action that should not be supported.

Pat i have alot of time for you but your under the illusion that this was supposed to come as standard when it never has, This has been a well known fact for ages! even befor the slip up of info in the video! the prothean was only going to be accesable as of launch and to be included with the N7 collectors edition. i hate to say this but your fighting a lost cause! wether it be that the DLC is on the disk or not. anyone that has the standard edition is not entitled to it and are just moaning becasue they have to put there hand in there pocket like i said its pretty bloody simple.

Edited March 12, 2012 by oysterbarron

[Jay]

But then again the customer is right to be angry when they're lied to, and are sold something that can only be utilised by paying more.

 

There'd be no contention here if nobody was lied to.

[OysterBarron]

Someone at ea did f*ck up in the interview but it still doesnt change the fact that the dlc was meant for the collectors edition if anything i think the vidwo makers have forgoton that main fact.

[E.A.B.]

 

DLC is great, when a producer finishes a game they still have a few months before its released so why should they just sit around with their dicks in their hands watching Redtube all day? I'd rather day 1 DLC then no DLC at all. Suck it up sweetheart, welcome to the world of business.

 

I've cut a few deals with people where I knew I was f*cking them over, and even *I* know that its f*cked up, really over greed, and that if I use that excuse I'd just be justifying what I'm doing but not actually endorsing or condoning it

 

The mortgage crisis was just business as well, and as is when a boss lays off workers even though he really has no reason to other than not being able to afford a second house.

 

They call people like you stooges, btw.

 

 

oh boy another DLC rage thread... if you dont want DLC, then just dont f*cking buy it.. dont bitch about it

Well, when its an integral part of the game...

 

Yes, some of us care about plot. A lot.

 

 

Did you work for that gold plated mansion? We pay the SAME price for our game as other system players and deserve the same stuff and not need to feel limited on our games.

You my friend are delusional.

 

You bought a game for the same price, but you need to understand that it does not mean you deserve anything other than what is advertised on the box. If you want that DLC on that other version of the game you're gonna have to buy that. If it's on another console, you're gonna have to buy that too. It's not about fair or unfair, how much the game is and how someone else with another version of the game on a console you don't own gets what THEY paid for. It's about you not realizing that you are getting exactly what YOU paid for.

Hold on a second, its this kind of complacency that lets people take advantage of you to begin with.

 

People know this already, but they also have a sense of fairness and righteousness that is tested when companies do dumb sh*t like this. You can't deny people the right to act and be influenced, partially , with emotion. Because that's the basis of our soooooouuuuuuulllls.

 

sooooooooooooooul traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain

 

 

Where is the Bioware penis

 

You said there'd be Bioware penis. My mouth feels too dry now, please.

I don't think you get it; I'm done with you. There really is no point in arguing with you because all this time you've done nothing but justify bad business practices without taking into consideration what anyone says to the contrary. Plus, all of your arguments are done from a perspective that just isn't believable. It's pretty obvious you would take a bullet for Bioware, same way Obama's best, personal friend and adviser would not be eligible to discuss, objectively, Obama's policies in a neutral panel.

 

I think someone made a point that game companies need more money so its somewhat understandable, and that's a good argument! I'm willing to accept this, and we'd need to see the balance books to see just how true this is and how strongly it holds out. Then, we'd need to look at how other companies might handle the supposed rise in costs, and perhaps even look at EA's practices in terms of community management, and see if this has had a large part in the whole ordeal.

 

I think it has.

 

Anyway, you don't do any of this. See, whenever I'm presented with an argument, I at the very least, acknowledge that those arguing have their reasons and are absolutely, positively not lying to me or intentionally harming me. I try to accept the criticism, and see if there are faults within me that can be taken care of, or if there are strong counter points. This doesn't mean I'm biased, by the way. Not in the least.

 

But you are so strongly biased that any argument to the contrary is useless against you, just as any argument against (internet argument, you knew this was coming) Hitler's advisers would be useless because they are so steeped in their love as to be blind. So I'm done with you, because there's no point

 

 

add ontop of the fact that anyone changing game files without Biowares or EA's approval has no rights anymore so from a legal standpoint theres nothing you can do unless like you say you dont buy the games anymore in witch case you know where to go!

 

Bahahahah. That's some faulty logic when taken out of this context, because it assumes that the laws are fair to begin with and are agreed upon by all parties. Who makes the laws? Who has the power to enact them and how much power do they have over the people subjugated to them?

 

Actually, in this context it still applies; if EA had f*cking childporn on the disc you'd say that you shouldn't even be able to find it because you can't alter the disc and you made a contract not to. That is called side stepping an issue and presenting a totally different argument that has no relevance.

 

 

You really think that they want bankrupt because the products where not deemed satisfactory? Christ, they went bankrupt because people are loosing their jobs left, right and center and cannot afford to buy new vehicles, it's that choice between that new car or putting food on the table.

 

last f*cking quote, I swear, but the auto industry was in decline before the mortgage crisis, and it had more to do with sh*tty cars.

Edited March 12, 2012 by E.A.B.

[OysterBarron]

Ive been deepthroating bioware since mass effect 1! im simply trying to clear up a misconception that people are having while they hastily jump on the EA hate train. when really apart from one off quote they havent been lied to at all. if you had spent more time reading my replys instead of thinking about cock jokes then you may have realized the point i was trying to make. im not talking about dlc in general i was refering to the mass effect one and trying to clear up the sh*t being said that has been blown out of proportion.

 

at the end of the day you say your done with me then yet you quote one of my points as acceptable. i take on peoples opinions when i know there not spouting absolute rubbish and im not the only one out of the 8 people that ive spoken to about this agree that there was more sh*t being spouted out than fact. at the end of the day ive proven my point now what ever you want to beleive about the bioware bs is upto you but more fool you!

 

my beef wasnt with you anyway eab i just needed to do some educating!

 

 

[Pat]

Pat i have alot of time for you but your under the illusion that this was supposed to come as standard when it never has

The character is on the f*cking disc and you said yourself that From Ashes was released as DLC because, and I quote, "they did not have the game finished by the deadline." You're backtracking now. Which one is it, oyster? Was it an incomplete game, or was it DLC from the beginning? And if it was the latter, why the f*ck was the character ever on the disc, if he cannot be accessed without the DLC?

[ryuclan]

Honestly when I see "day one DLC " I think bullsh*t.

[trip]

I'm not going to argue on the side of DLC as a business model for companies to make money but think of this...

 

The cost of home video games has not changed all that much since the days of the Atari2600. I tried to find some figures or charts but I couldn't(maybe I didn't look hard enough).

 

That fact that we are paying the same price for something like this:

 

as we did for this over 30yrs ago:

 

...it's almost mind blowing.

 

Bear in mind Atari2600 Space Invaders was written by one guy, Skyrim probably had a hundred people working on it. I almost feel we should be thankful that games aren't $300 a pop - not including DLC prices. I'm no economist, and I understand the whole game industry and market has changed to the point where video game production equals larger returns than it did 30 years ago, but come on.... Ahhh, I'm sure there is a lot more thinking and sh*t to factor in.

 

And I ramble.

[OysterBarron]

Pat i have alot of time for you but your under the illusion that this was supposed to come as standard when it never has

The character is on the f*cking disc and you said yourself that From Ashes was released as DLC because, and I quote, "they did not have the game finished by the deadline." You're backtracking now. Which one is it, oyster? Was it an incomplete game, or was it DLC from the beginning? And if it was the latter, why the f*ck was the character ever on the disc, if he cannot be accessed without the DLC?

Im not back tracking what i said or meant was that yes the character was on the disk! the rest of the illusive content that is included on the dlc is not present! the on ahes DLC was always earmarked for the collectors edition and was advertised accordingly. The quote was derived from the fact bioware had said that a seperate team was put onto this project after the main gane had gone into certification! just because a character that was not advertised as coming with the pack and was just unlockable through the collectors edition pack was included on disk this does not prove that any of the content in the pack was taken out of the full game. this would also bring in line the second comment from them saying that they dont take content out of the game! as the content from ashes witch is a mission not a character they were refering to wasnt in the main game. I have no idea why people think a games producer would go out of his way to openly lie ti the entire community is in his best interest? this is why i say it has been blown out of all proportion! and wether it be the dlc was in the collectors edition or not 9 times out of ten the colle tors edition would have been just as exspensive.

 

Other subject. day one dlc bullsh*t! If the DLC came as a code in the box for free on day one would you still be thinking bullsh*t?

 

trip. i havent really thought about it like that!

[Pat]

 

the rest of the illusive content that is included on the dlc is not present! the on ahes DLC was always earmarked for the collectors edition and was advertised accordingly.

So why include the character on the disc at all if From Ashes was advertised as being exclusive to the collector's edition? You still have not given a decent explanation as to why the character is on the disc. It does not make sense. If the character is intended to be part of From Ashes, which is downloadable content, he should not be on the disc at all. There's no f*cking reason for it. That is why people have theorized that the DLC was taken from the game to be sold as downloadable content, and you still have not given a valid argument against this theory.

 

I don't care about From Ashes, I don't care about the collector's edition. I want to know why the character is on the disc if he is part of the DLC. He can't be accessed without the DLC, so he is part of the f*cking DLC.

 

Why is the f*cking character on the disc.

 

 

If the DLC came as a code in the box for free on day one would you still be thinking bullsh*t?

No, because then it would be a case of them saying "we didn't have time to put this in the game, so here, you can download it." The difference is that they aren't charging us extra for a complete game in that scenario. It's like charging ten dollars for a patch for a multiplayer game.

[Andrew]

 

I don't care about From Ashes, I don't care about the collector's edition. I want to know why the character is on the disc if he is part of the DLC. He can't be accessed without the DLC, so he is part of the f*cking DLC.

 

 

Because they may have forgotten to take him out before the game went for certification? There's a million and one reasons why he's still on the disk, could be a simple as being forgotten about.

 

Does it really matter that there is a character on the disk? A lot of you here are getting your knickers in a twist over nothing at all. It's not like they included the entire DLC on the disk.

[Pat]

Because they may have forgotten to take him out before the game went for certification?

Why was he ever on the disc in the first place if he was intended to be downloadable content.

[Andrew]

Because they may have forgotten to take him out before the game went for certification?

Why was he ever on the disc in the first place if he was intended to be downloadable content.

Who f*cking knows and who f*cking cares? I certainly don't, I'll enjoy ME3 and then leave it at that, the DLC doesn't bother me nor does the fact that there's a character in my game I cannot play because I have to pay some money for that character.

[Pat]

 

I certainly don't, I'll enjoy ME3 and then leave it at that

Then go play ME3 and leave it at that. If you don't care about the debate, I don't understand why you feel the need to reply.

[The Killa]

I actually kind of think this whole reaction over the Prothean (sp?) character is hugely dramatic. Before I say anything else, let me say the only BioWare games I've ever enjoyed is KOTOR and SWTOR (although it's been kind of disappointing in many regards), infact I almost loathe BioWare because they put a high importance on things that irk me the most in video games: linearity and romance on a serious level. So spare me the BioDrone nonsense.

 

Anyway, am I the only one who honestly doesn't give a f*cking toss what or wasn't on the disc? Oh, the character slipped through. Oops, big f*cking deal. Sure, you can edit the game files and so on but what fun would that be? You have a near-worthless character and you're missing out on the content and the story that would be the entire point. The only thing I'm ever worried about is weather or not the extra content is enough to justify spending money on. If I was a Mass Effect fan I'd surely buy it, even if it was on the disc. I couldn't care less. Nobody is forcing you to buy the DLC anyway.

 

And the way companies do DLC doesn't bother me. It's no shocker companies are out to make money. I'm grateful to be able to enjoy any video game nowdays, and if I enjoy to the extent that I want more content then I'll happily pay for more of it. If I didn't enjoy it, then I won't - simple. No big deal.

 

People are way too quick to jump on EA / BW's back these days. Yes - they're no shining example of utter brilliance, but it's nearly embarrassing how much hate they get.

[OysterBarron]

Its obvious pat he was finished and coded before the game went into cetification there is no rule that says they cannot do this and like i stated before companys have been doing this for a while now! jusr because standard edition people cant access him as standard doesnt mean it shouldnt have been included on the disk.

 

bloody read man instead of picking out select qoutes just to try and disprove my very valid points.

[Pat]

Its obvious pat he was finished and coded before the game went into cetification there is no rule that says they cannot do this and like i stated before companys have been doing this for a while now! jusr because standard edition people cant access him as standard doesnt mean it shouldnt have been included on the disk.

 

bloody read man instead of picking out select qoutes just to try and disprove my very valid points.

And once again you're repeating the same argument; that there is "no rule" against this. That doesn't make it acceptable behavior. It's not illegal if I call you a c*nt to your face, but is it acceptable? It's not illegal if I paint a suggestive image on the hood of my car and drive past a preschool, but is it acceptable? Quit trying to compare "acceptable" and "allowed," because they are two different things, which you do not seem to understand.

 

If he was finished and coded before the game went into certification, there's still no reason to put him on the disc, unless they had intended to put all of the content related to him on the disc. Which means it is an unfinished game and they are charging extra for the finished product.

 

I'm not ignoring any points of your argument, I'm just tired of seeing the same points over and over again, after I have already addressed them.

[The Killa]

 

Which means it is an unfinished game and they are charging extra for the finished product.

 

 

"All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc', EA told GameInformer.

'As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2,' EA concluded in their statement."

 

How is a DLC mission made by a separate team that left a small thing on the main disc now mean the vanilla game is "unfinished"? You're making too bold of a conclusion.

 

But I'm sure you'll just tell me it's one big conspiracy and they're a bunch of liars who are out to suck your wallet dry.

[Pat]

 

'As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc."

And yet downloadable content like TBoGT or TLaD include multiple new characters that have absolutely zero trace on the disc and work absolutely fine. Feel free to say "oh but this is a different engine;" you still won't have me convinced. EA has lied enough before that I have no reason to trust them now.

 

Even if - if - they're telling the truth, and From Ashes truly never was meant to be part of the core game, I still consider it to be charging extra for a complete game. They didn't have the content finished before the game was finished, but they were working on it, which means they could have delayed the game and added the content to the core game. It is a dick move to their customers, and this is still assuming they were telling the truth.

 

 

But I'm sure you'll just tell me it's one big conspiracy and they're a bunch of liars who are out to suck your wallet dry.

When all else fails, claim your opponent is a conspiracy theorist.

[The Killa]

 

'As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc."

And yet downloadable content like TBoGT or TLaD include multiple new characters that have absolutely zero trace on the disc and work absolutely fine. Feel free to say "oh but this is a different engine;" you still won't have me convinced. EA has lied enough before that I have no reason to trust them now.

 

 

 

 

Was TBoGT or TLaD a day-one release DLC?

 

 

Even if - if - they're telling the truth, and From Ashes truly never was meant to be part of the core game, I still consider it to be charging extra for a complete game. They didn't have the content finished before the game was finished, but they were working on it, which means they could have delayed the game and added the content to the core game. It is a dick move to their customers, and this is still assuming they were telling the truth.

 

You are? If the truth is automatically assumed, the DLC was worked on by a separate team and the character was added for logistical and technical reasons. If they had deviously decided to make original core content into paid DLC then I'd highly doubt they'd coincidentally forget to remove the entire character, and had worked on adding the model otherwise, or maybe it was to wind people up such as yourself.

[Mister Pink]

I'm with Pat on this one. I mean, I think its very bad practice to have content on the disc that's unlockable after you pay money. Who's going to regulate this? It's hard no to feel cheated out of your cash, if you know it was on the disc already. It's not DLC or and add-on is it? It was already there.

 

I think Pat is just standing up for doing whats right. A lot of you guys, seem to be willingly complacent in something that looks like it's going to be more and more common practice in time to come.

 

SR3 had the feeling of some features that were on the disc were paid 'DLC.' If you can fit it on the disc, it's not an add-on, it's not DLC. For example I believe multiplayer poker in RDR should have been multiplayer from the beginning. It only seemed natural and when I saw it, I was very surprised I couldn't play friends in a game of poker. Low and behold it then comes out as a part of DLC.

 

So there's also the feeling that were once you knew you were playing a completed game that now you'll play a game, you'll see stuff and and question why it's not working, maybe I'll be able to pay for it to work later on in the game, or whens the 'DLC' coming out so I can have my full game.

 

It's sad. Customers need to be on their toes so we're not dicked about. I think this is Pats main point. Lets not be walked over because it sure seems like that.

 

 

[Pat]

 

Was TBoGT or TLaD a day-one release DLC?

Is that relevant? If so, I'd like you to explain how.

 

 

if they had deviously decided to make original core content into paid DLC then I'd highly doubt they'd coincidentally forget to remove the entire character

I'll go ahead and bring up oyster's previous example of the Hot Coffee scandal with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. Not to compare it to the downloadable content, but to show that content can be forgotten and left behind. Rockstar Games had absolutely no plans of ever using that content, so they had absolutely no reason at all to leave it on the disc. Don't use the "well it was just one guy that slipped under their nose" argument, either; it featured professional animations and voice acting. They knew about it, there's absolutely no way they didn't.

 

And like I already said, even if what you're saying is true, and it was always intended to be downloadable content, I still do not think it should be supported. I'm waiting for you to convince me that there's nothing wrong with it.

 

 

SR3 had the feeling of some features that were on the disc were paid 'DLC.' If you can fit it on the disc, it's not an add-on, it's not DLC. For example I believe multiplayer poker in RDR should have been multiplayer from the beginning. It only seemed natural and when I saw it, I was very surprised I couldn't play friends in a game of poker. Low and behold it then comes out as a part of DLC.

It's worth mentioning that I do not support either of these cases as well. I never bought Saint's Row 3 (I played it, but I did not pay them a single cent), and I never bought Red Dead Redemption. I considered it, and if I still used my console, I would buy it, but I would not buy that DLC. I'm not criticizing Electronic Arts and BioWare for this decision simply out of spite - I'm criticizing them because it was a bad business decision.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Pat

[The Killa]

 

Was TBoGT or TLaD a day-one release DLC?

Is that relevant? If so, I'd like you to explain how.

 

 

 

 

And yet downloadable content like TBoGT or TLaD include multiple new characters that have absolutely zero trace on the disc and work absolutely fine.

 

Therefore it wasn't necessary for them to have anything on the disc from a technical or logistical standpoint because it was only released well after the vanilla game, therefore I don't know why you use that as an example. Bioware, on the other hand, used the model for core development purposes and planned accordingly. And don't say "w-well they shouldn't have released it on the first day those evil bastards", because it was entirely their decision, and YOUR option weather or not to buy it.

 

 

I'll go ahead and bring up oyster's previous example of the Hot Coffee scandal with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. Not to compare it to the downloadable content, but to show that content can be forgotten and left behind. Rockstar Games had absolutely no plans of ever using that content, so they had absolutely no reason at all to leave it on the disc. Don't use the "well it was just one guy that slipped under their nose" argument, either; it featured professional animations and voice acting. They knew about it, there's absolutely no way they didn't.

 

If you claim it can be forgotten, then why do you say that there's "absolutely no way they didn't know about it"? And how does that make it relevant? The only parallel is that both Rockstar and Bioware need to clean their code up better.

 

 

I'm waiting for you to convince me that there's nothing wrong with it.

 

That's your problem. You refuse to believe official developer quotes stating the technical reasons and implications for including the character on the disc, and you refuse to believe that problems are because of certain holes in the game engine. You wouldn't believe it if Scarlett Johansonn had her legs spread and said "you can shag me all you want if you think they're telling the truth." There's nothing left to try to convince you about anything.

[Finn 7 five 11]

In essence, DLC makes the game more expensive.

You pay $120 Au for a game, then to have the whole game, you pay more, so like i said, basically they raised the price on games, but brand the increase as 1 day DLC and such, so those people who don't mind DLC wouldn't mind if they just suddenly increased the price of the game at purchase by 50%?

[Pat]

Therefore it wasn't necessary for them to have anything on the disc from a technical or logistical standpoint because it was only released well after the vanilla game, therefore I don't know why you use that as an example.

Because BioWare's excuse is that they needed to have the character on the disc for him to work properly. If we look at other, even larger examples of downloadable content, we know this to be false.

 

 

And don't say "w-well they shouldn't have released it on the first day those evil bastards", because it was entirely their decision, and YOUR option weather or not to buy it.

You're missing the God damned point here; this isn't about me being a dissatisfied customer, this is about BUSINESS ETHICS. I believe it is unethical to release content as day-1 DLC. It only exists as a strategy to make more money from the same customer; there is absolutely no other reason for it. It's very underhanded and I do not support it, nor will I ever support it. I want to know why you support it. Don't tell me "WELL IT'S THEIR DECISION TO MAKE," tell me why you support the decision itself.

 

 

If you claim it can be forgotten, then why do you say that there's "absolutely no way they didn't know about it"?

Failed reading comprehension. I said there is no way they didn't know that it existed - not that there is no way they didn't know it was still on the disc.

 

 

And how does that make it relevant?

It's relevant because you were trying to imply that BioWare is incapable of leaving content on a disc and forgetting to remove it. I was using it as an example to show that such a thing has happened before in the past.

 

 

That's your problem. You refuse to believe official developer quotes stating the technical reasons and implications for including the character on the disc, and you refuse to believe that problems are because of certain holes in the game engine.

Again, failed reading comprehension. I'm waiting for you to convince me that it is an ethical business tactic. That it is an action that I should support. Which, might I add, you still have not managed (or even attempted) to do.

[nightwalker83]

Bear in mind Atari2600 Space Invaders was written by one guy, Skyrim probably had a hundred people working on it. I almost feel we should be thankful that games aren't $300 a pop - not including DLC prices.

Well, for one thing each person working on the game would probably get sh*t pay for the game compared to the amount of effort they put in to creating the game.

[OysterBarron]

The from ashes mission was a collectors edition bonus dlc!

 

The character was obviosly coded while the game was in development because of his interactions throughout the entire game and would have been easyier to bug test with him init than leaving him as the last thing they did while certification was happning! Its pretty damn obvious!

 

they leave any extra content thats not priority till last as all dlc is, as getting the main game finished is number one priority.

 

i wish they had left the c*ntting character out it would have saved me the 3 day headache of trying to get what is a simple enough concept to grasp across. if you still dont bloody understand pat then im not going to spend another f*cking minute truing to pummel it into that dense head of yours in a way you can understand. i thought you was quite intteligent but its obvious you let yourself get led to easyily.

 

i have no reason to lie about such things i have been basing my arguments of of facts presented and things i have learnt about the industry over my multiple years of following it! you keep saying prove it but wheres your proff that the from ashes mission was coded before certificationof the main game thats right youcant because there is none! where as i have 2 quotes from the producers themselves that make complete sense if you dont jump to hasty conclusions.

 

im leaving this here not because you have won but because your level of retardness is pushing me to the edge of suicide and its starting to effect my mental health!

 

oysterbarron out!