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MIKON8ERISBACK

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MIKON8ERISBACK

I have with me yet another one of my trademark theories. Please remember that im not a troll who's been trying to instigate console fanboy wars on the forums. Please do not mistake this thread as being inflammatory.

 

Rockstar Games has promised that this will the "biggest and most ambiguous game" that they've ever created. Other such marketing terms used included "bold, new direction" "a very big map" and other such terms suggesting something on the scales of which mankind has never before seen.

 

We must focus on the technical capabilities (or lack thereof) of both the PlayStation 3, and the Xbox 360. Consoles are very difficult to modify or add aftermarket hardware to, and every aspect of the game from content to texture detail to framerate to screen resolution must be tweaked to make the most of what it has to offer, while at the same time, satisfying technical limitations and even corporate red tape.

 

I'm starting to suspect that Grand Theft Auto V will wind up being a PS3 exclusive due to the fact that Sony's critically acclaimed Blu-Ray disc storage medium is the only medium that will fulfill the storage demands that this "bold, new direction" will demand. It is anticipated that the features that may make the final cut will include a golf minigame, a rollercoaster minigame, a working gym and it's vast map size. It is said (not verified) that this will demand 2 to 8 discs of program files data on the Xbox 360's DVD-DATA storage medium. In that case, the initial installation process would take as much as half an hour to complete. Contrary to popular belief, one would not constantly need to navigate through different discs to unlock map regions. The additional discs would only be used to install program data on the hard drive.

 

A single layer Blu Ray disc (the cheapest one available on the publisher's part) can hold 25 GB of program data. If the PS3 can read dual layer discs, we're talking about storage capacities of up to 50GB.

 

The next question is the Xbox 360's physical hardware vs the PS3s. CPU clock speed, RAM, etc.

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How is anything you present any different then past comments on the PS3 exclusive from Rockstar Games?!? At present, even AGENT could become a dual platform game, nothing is confirmed an exclusive at the moment...nothing. That said, Agent is still slated as a PS3 only game, it's just rumored that it will follow in LA Noire's footsteps

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Original Light

 

The next question is the Xbox 360's physical hardware vs the PS3s. CPU clock speed, RAM, etc.

They're almost exactly the same.

 

Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec

PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec

 

Vertex Shader Processing

Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec

 

Filtered Texture Fetch

Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec

PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec

 

Vertex Texture Fetch

Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec

PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec

 

Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock)

Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec

 

Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock)

Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec

 

Multisampled Fill Rate

Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz)

PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz)

 

Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing

Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

 

Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing

Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

 

Frame Buffer Bandwidth

Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering)

PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices)

PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

 

Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth

Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU)

Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)

Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)

PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer)

PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

 

Shader Model

Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture

PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture

 

Xbox 360 has the advantage in most cases.

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Games really don't take up that much space if you don't want them too. The 2 TV shows in GTA IV (CNT and Weazel) take up 1.76GB, if they were to just drop TV stations I'm sure any limitations on size would be solved.

All those extra activities you put forward wouldn't take up more than a few MBs (including models and textures).

 

R* likes money and they're not going to not miss out on a huge portion of the market.

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Sony didn't pioneer BluRay, the only thing gamers can lay claim to is that Sony chose a bold console build feature-set wise, it cost them plenty because BD was not cheap at the time!! It lost money including BD in every console made.

That being said as well, Sony only followed an earlier game-plan of rolling out PS2 with DVD, so you got a player and game system in one, a media console of sorts, supporting USB media as well

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Only thing i see for 360 thats a problem is the DVD the 360 uses is 9GB. Im 1000000% sure the games gonna be bigger then 9GB... They could pack it all on a few disks and FORCE users to install to hard drive, but that would not be very enjoyable.

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MIKON8ERISBACK

Slamman: A high end video (DVD) store at the Square One Shopping Center in Mississauga, Ontario sold Blu Ray discs for $90 Canadian Dollars (almost identical to US currency) back in 2007. Blu Ray disc has almost no picture quality advantages over DVD if you don't have an HD television.

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Blu Ray disc has almost no picture quality advantages over DVD if you don't have an HD television.

And DVD has no picture quality advantages over VHS on a small crappy black and white CRT...

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I strongly doubt that it wont be on 360. The preformance of the consoles are very simmilar when you peel away the disk drives. Also if it were to be on up to 8 disks then it would take up atleast 2-3 blu-ray disks as Team Bondi said they dropped about 3 desks of stories from the script because it would have meant using 2 blu-rays so I dont think the PS3 can read dual layer Blu-Rays if that was the case. If you take a look at GTA IV there is quite allot on there and if I am right the whole game takes up 6.5 gb so I would say that at most it would take up 2 disks on 360 if anything as there is still another 2 gigs free on the DVD and then ontop of that you have another 8.5 gigs so I doubt V would take 10.5 mor gigs of space than IV.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the IV space useage i.e. Map Gb, Vehicles Gb, Missions Gb etc...?

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It won't be. At best there will be an DLC exclusive but the game will be on both platforms. Yeah it might take longer for the game to install on the xbox but lets face it, for this game i think we can wait a while.

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Inncognitoo

Are you crazy?? Why the hell would anyone think R* created V just for PS3?

Sure the x360 does have less memory storage for games due to the dvd layer, but you do know the disc drives get updated once every 3-4 months, which gives them more memory.

 

GTA is R*'s golden child, There is no way in hell that they would lose money to make it exclusive, especially when the x360 sells more copies than the ps3.

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The disc space issue - GTA4 had the biggest main story this gen and hours of spoken dialogue - TOTAL SPACE 6.6GB

 

red dead redemption uses 6.7GB

 

when these games came out 360 discs had a max capacity of 6.8

 

well now 360 discs have a max capacity of 7.8GB, So given the size of GTA4 and RDR plus an extra GIG I think R* will have little problem getting it on the 360

 

even if it does go on multiple discs it will be no more the 2, the majority of the space is used up with music and dialogue so the game world and 1/2 the missions and all the music would be on 1 disc and the rest of the missions will be on disc 2

 

has for other hardware issues, the ps3 has more problems with its split ram,skyrim has shown this.

 

these boards really deserve a better quality ps3 fanboy your attempt was pitiful and ignorant

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I think they should use 25GB from the PS3 disc and then for Xbox it should be put on two or three disc to make it up to 25GB, as an xbox owner I wouldnt mind at all giving up 25GB of hard drive for GTA V biggrin.gif but should be an option so you dont have to keep changing discs. .

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Sigh.. Rockstar would lose tons of money, and no, Sony wouldn't cover the losses because for starters they wouldn't be able to afford that. I think this should be locked before a console war starts.

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I know BluRay is not meant to display on normal NTSC, or even on SDTVs that I'm aware of, not without some loss, since the medium is expressly for Hi-Def, supporting multichannel audio, which has an HD defined in computer audio codecs, but the term doesn't relate specifically to HD video, it's just meaning the best audio conversion from analog to digital possible, some are better then others. DATA capacity also bears little to relating to Hi Def video or audio, data capacity for BluRay is more relating to the GByte storage limits, add to that any compression schemes used, sharing media types, video, audio, and data to eat that real estate up

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Guns N R0se

I wish it would be PC only... it will never happen, but I can dream inlove.gif

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as Team Bondi said they dropped about 3 desks of stories from the script because it would have meant using 2 blu-rays so I dont think the PS3 can read dual layer Blu-Rays if that was the case.

Well.. Uncharted 3 is 44 GB in size and its on a dual-layer blu-ray disk! So.. The PS3 CAN infact read dual-layer Blu-Ray disks #FACT

 

On Topic: it wouldnt bother me if GTA V was a PS3 exclusive.. Becuase i'm a PS3 owner, but i dont think R* will risk losing so much money if they did this!

Edited by Gtaghost22
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I wish it would be PC only... it will never happen, but I can dream inlove.gif

Then keep dreaming.

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I strongly doubt that it wont be on 360. The preformance of the consoles are very simmilar when you peel away the disk drives. Also if it were to be on up to 8 disks then it would take up atleast 2-3 blu-ray disks as Team Bondi said they dropped about 3 desks of stories from the script because it would have meant using 2 blu-rays so I dont think the PS3 can read dual layer Blu-Rays if that was the case. If you take a look at GTA IV there is quite allot on there and if I am right the whole game takes up 6.5 gb so I would say that at most it would take up 2 disks on 360 if anything as there is still another 2 gigs free on the DVD and then ontop of that you have another 8.5 gigs so I doubt V would take 10.5 mor gigs of space than IV.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the IV space useage i.e. Map Gb, Vehicles Gb, Missions Gb etc...?

PS3s can read dual-layer BRs, MGS4 was ~40GB IIRC (uncompressed 7.1 audio takes up a ton of space).

 

For your last question (these are the IMG files for GTAIV PC):

Vehicles: ~82MB

Weapons: ~4MB

Maps (including interior, props, generic lods [most likely decompressed for PC for load times]): ~5.4GB

And mission is split up into many different files (like different paths, decisions, scripts, etc - but it's not much.

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Making GTA V PS3 exclusive would be the dumbest possible thing Rockstar/T2 could do. Considering all the hype surrounding GTA V and the fact that it's the most hyped about GTA yet, making it PS3 exclusive and not releasing it on Xbox be stupid. Think about all the revenue that would be lost from Xbox owners by making it a PS3 exclusive. It just doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint. Rockstar/T2 will do what they need to do to make sure the Xbox can handle the game. If that means multiple disks then I'm sure they'll do it. Rockstar/T2 are in the business of making money. With that in mind, there's no way Rockstar/T2 would ignore the millions of dollars they would get from the Xbox owners.

 

Just a side note, the same argument can be made for GTA V being an Xbox exclusive.

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Cole Phelps Gta

I own a 360 but if the 360 is holding it back it can f*ck off. I mean i had to buy the 360 because my ps2 couldnt handle gta iv i dont see how this is any different

#HEEL

 

You're too cowardly to even take the heat for it from the people you troll, instead running to the moderators wasting our time with sh*t you started. GTFO.

 

#BANHAMMER
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Don't forget all the SKU generations of both consoles, things like Dual Layer could probably be implemented with successive models, but just don't expect a world of change, it won't happen

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Wannabe in LS

If uncompressed audio takes up a lot of space - and I don't doubt it because is use AIFF on my 80gb iPod and that's only 2,000 songs max - then the game itself isn't going to be all that massive. For the sake of being played on console, 256kbps audio on the 360 version will be more than good enough if mastered properly. Uncompressed audio for gaming is willy waving.

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Guns N R0se
I own a 360 but if the 360 is holding it back it can f*ck off. I mean i had to buy the 360 because my ps2 couldnt handle gta iv i dont see how this is any different

360 and PS3 ARE holding it back confused.gif

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ShotGunRain

I do hope they use full potential of the ps3 and use multiple discs for xbox so they can enjoy it and us ps3 players can enjoy it.

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Just a side note, the same argument can be made for GTA V being an Xbox exclusive.

How?? The only thing that makes some people think GTA V will be a PS3 exclusive is Blu-Ray becuase it can hold up to 50 gb of size.. its not the Same case with xbox 360, and to be honest i dont think a console exclusive released on multiple disks would ever happen

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Just a side note, the same argument can be made for GTA V being an Xbox exclusive.

How?? The only thing that makes some people think GTA V will be a PS3 exclusive is Blu-Ray becuase it can hold up to 50 gb of size.. its not the Same case with xbox 360, and to be honest i dont think a console exclusive released on multiple disks would ever happen

I don't see how this is so hard to understand. It's all about money. Rockstar/T2 are out there to make as much money as they can. Yes, they're trying to make a great game as well, but at the same time they're not going to make the game super detailed so only the PS3 can handle it. Doing so would be stupid as they would be losing millions of dollars from Xbox owners. You guys can go ahead and accuse me of accusing Rockstar/T2 of being greedy, but all business are out there to make money, and Rockstar/T2 are no different. It just doesn't make economic sense to make it a full PS3 exclusive.

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mikkenugent

What about that magical compression they used for LAN for it to fit on 3 XB disks? I'm sure V won't be any type of exclusive, I don't even think a dlc episode will be given to either side. I'm sure we'll get exclusives like RDR in all honesty.

 

As for the big bold new step, who's to say the step will be that much bigger than IV to warrant such a drastic change in memory? Sure the map Mayde bigger but by how much? We know absolutely nothin about this bold new step, nothin. That's even to the effect of multiple protags, Ned Luke, or any other theory floatin around.

 

The bold new step could be anythin and that doesn't mean that it would or couldn't fit on a standard 360 DVD.

 

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Making GTA V PS3 exclusive would be the dumbest possible thing Rockstar/T2 could do. Considering all the hype surrounding GTA V and the fact that it's the most hyped about GTA yet, making it PS3 exclusive and not releasing it on Xbox be stupid. Think about all the revenue that would be lost from Xbox owners by making it a PS3 exclusive. It just doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint. Rockstar/T2 will do what they need to do to make sure the Xbox can handle the game. If that means multiple disks then I'm sure they'll do it. Rockstar/T2 are in the business of making money. With that in mind, there's no way Rockstar/T2 would ignore the millions of dollars they would get from the Xbox owners.

 

Just a side note, the same argument can be made for GTA V being an Xbox exclusive.

This. icon14.gif

 

Think about it - ... why would Rockstar* risk such a loss on their "largest and most ambitious game" they've yet created?

 

It doesn't add up.

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