Jump to content

No transplant for dying dad who is illegal immigra


YankeesPwnMets

Recommended Posts

YankeesPwnMets

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/j..._n_1245630.html

 

I can see both sides of the argument. One side says that nobody should be rewarded for breaking our law. Also, if he can't pay for post medical bills to prevent organ rejection, then what is the point? He will die with the organ in him, and that organ could have gone to another needy person with the insurance to pay for everything.

 

However, when we are talking a human life, then a lot of things change. He is a father with a kid, and his daughter might never get to be with her father when she grows up. As a doctor, you are under the Hippocratic Oath to help save people, but this man is an illegal immigrant who broke the law by entering this country. If I were a doctor, I'd have absolutely no clue what to do here.

 

What is your POV on this?

 

Another POV is that if this guy gets what he needs, then he is a slap in the face to all the other immigrants who sacrificed everything to live in this country legally. My mom and pop sacrificed a lot so I could live in this country without having to hide from cops everyday., so I could pursue the dream to make a living on what I love to do. But then again, do you really want to end this man's life because he isn't legal?

Edited by YankeesPwnMets
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely a tough decision.

 

See what I would do is ignore the law and save this mans life. If you're going to risk breaking the law just to save a poor mans life who I'm assuming came here into this country illegally because he had no money, and wanted to earn a little bit more freedom, but in the end have to deal with the a decision that could leave him dying on a hospital bed, then I'd go for it. We're humans, we don't let the law make decisions for us, we make our OWN. The law is enforced to maintain a stable balance of peace, and this poor man dying isn't so peaceful emotionally. His kids are gonna be heartbroken and crying in tears. Retract the law away for a moment and give the poor man a right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's a criminal.

He's a human being.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's a criminal.

He's a human being.

I don't care. Break the law and you receive no sympathy from me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YankeesPwnMets

Take a look at it from this way:

 

If your dad was an illegal immigrant that needed a transplant, would you want him to live longer, or would you just have him die on the hospital bed?

 

@Mockage: There is an argument to go against your claim. I can say that why should anyone get a waiver from the law? Prisoners with cancer don't get released from jail, but this illegal immigrant should get an organ to save their life? Can you explain that?

 

Also, I don't really have a side. I'm just trying to see some flaws in everyone's claims and put a good argument against it.

Edited by YankeesPwnMets
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Transplant, then deportation or prison time. Simple as that.

Then the tax payers support him in prison, sh*t the guy the organ should go to would have to support him. I'm sorry this guy feels compelled to illegally immigrate but tuff titties my man. You broke the law, dyin or not that was yur choice. Sorry to sound cold on the matter but society is so stuck in the gray area that it forgets that the laws are written with black ink on white paper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leik oh em jeez!

If he comes over here illegally, then receives a free organ transplant he wouldn't have gotten otherwise, isn't that the same as stealing the organ?

 

Say the organ is given to the criminal now, and next month you've got a father of five that's got the money and/or insurance to pay for it, but there's no organ for him and he dies on a table. Have you really done any good?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it's very unfortunate, the people from my country immigrate because they want a better life, something that's very difficult to have here if you are poor.

 

But he entered the country illegally and he knew it so...

 

Its very difficult to say something because both sides have a valid argument, i would do what Mockage said:

"Transplant, then deportation or prison time. Simple as that."

 

Its the fair thing, and both sides get what they want.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leik oh em jeez!
Its the fair thing, and both sides get what they want.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. Like if you steal a Ferrari and get caught, and then they let you keep the Ferrari after a few years in prison. The criminal isn't supposed to get what they break the law to obtain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's a criminal.

He's a human being.

He's a part of the rebel alliance, and a traitor. Take him away!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gareth Alan Willmer

That is just ridiculous allowing someone to possibly die like this shows the mentality of some people in power. The man did work for 14 years and paid his insurance i dont see the big problem.

 

Okay so hes an imagrant its not like he didnt pay his own way or mooch of the state.

 

Christ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leik oh em jeez!

 

That is just ridiculous allowing someone to possibly die like this shows the mentality of some people in power. The man did work for 14 years and paid his insurance i dont see the big problem.

 

Okay so hes an imagrant its not like he didnt pay his own way or mooch of the state.

 

Christ

That criminal needs to be stopped. He has violated the law and must go to jail or pay his fine.

 

But really, him even working here means he's stolen a job from a LEGAL American citizen. If he's been here 14 years that means that's one American that's been out of work for 14 years because of him, and 14 years worth of stolen pay checks. Look at our economy, look at our unemployment rate. This country can't afford to give things to people because we feel bad for them. Yes, it's a sad story but you've got to look at the bigger picture. You do this once, then it has to be done every time. Then we've got people coming over to out country just to get free surgeries, then taking even more jobs. You can't make the system THAT easy to take advantage of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's a criminal.

He's a human being.

I don't care. Break the law and you receive no sympathy from me.

He's not a criminal. It's not a felony to be here illegally. It's a misdemeanor and it isn't even charged as such by US attorneys. Go learn immigration law buddy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can say that why should anyone get a waiver from the law? Prisoners with cancer don't get released from jail, but this illegal immigrant should get an organ to save their life? Can you explain that?

Simple - Health Care is a right to everyone. Everyone no matter what position they stand in whether it be an illegal immigrant or not should receive treatment in any kind of disease or condition. Yeah, I get it, the man is a criminal, but to leave him dying in a hospital bed because he broke the law is the right thing to do?

 

Despite the fact that our economic system is at a high low, this man should deserve treatment. Give him jail time afterwards, not a problem. There's plenty of other people striving to situate themselves in this country, but it appears that this man just slid by and went with the flow. But like I said, health care is a right to everyone. Give him a transplant, and punish him afterwards. Simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a large shortage of organs available. People die all of the time because they simply can't find an organ in time. Since they are a scarce resource, they should be reserved for American citizens. I don't want this guy to die, but saving him means an has to American die in his place.

izx6.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a large shortage of organs available. People die all of the time because they simply can't find an organ in time. Since they are a scarce resource, they should be reserved for American citizens. I don't want this guy to die, but saving him means an has to American die in his place.

Where do you make a cut-off then? What about permanent residents? Are they good enough for you? I really can't stand this whole notion of giving preferential medical care to people because they have citizenship or not. I don't give a f*ck if you're illegal or not, you deserve all the medical care you can get. We should have universal healthcare. We should treat everyone, and it should be funded with taxpayer money. This is f*cking healthcare, life and death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leik oh em jeez!

 

Simple - Health Care is a right to everyone. Everyone no matter what position they stand in whether it be an illegal immigrant or not should receive treatment in any kind of disease or condition. Yeah, I get it, the man is a criminal, but to leave him dying in a hospital bed because he broke the law is the right thing to do?

 

Despite the fact that our economic system is at a high low, this man should deserve treatment. Give him jail time afterwards, not a problem. There's plenty of other people striving to situate themselves in this country, but it appears that this man just slid by and went with the flow. But like I said, health care is a right to everyone. Give him a transplant, and punish him afterwards. Simple.

The entire problem is that he is leeching the economy. Putting him in jail wouldn't help. He needs to go back to his home country immediately, and deal with his health there like he would have if he never came here. Is it a happy ending? No, but it's fair. That's the way it has to be. Don't allow the rights of someone here illegally to over rule the rights of the people that are here legally. We have the right not to be leeched off of.

 

 

We should have universal healthcare. We should treat everyone, and it should be funded with taxpayer money. This is f*cking healthcare, life and death.

You simply CAN NOT do it that way. If you do, then you end up with U.S. citizens paying for the entire world's health. If you want to be a part of the system, you have to make your way in, and you have to pay for it.

Edited by leik oh em jeez!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

YankeesPwnMets

Well, his wife will be the one donating the organ since they both match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Simple - Health Care is a right to everyone. Everyone no matter what position they stand in whether it be an illegal immigrant or not should receive treatment in any kind of disease or condition. Yeah, I get it, the man is a criminal, but to leave him dying in a hospital bed because he broke the law is the right thing to do?

 

Despite the fact that our economic system is at a high low, this man should deserve treatment. Give him jail time afterwards, not a problem. There's plenty of other people striving to situate themselves in this country, but it appears that this man just slid by and went with the flow. But like I said, health care is a right to everyone. Give him a transplant, and punish him afterwards. Simple.

The entire problem is that he is leeching the economy. Putting him in jail wouldn't help. He needs to go back to his home country immediately, and deal with his health there like he would have if he never came here. Is it a happy ending? No, but it's fair. That's the way it has to be. Don't allow the rights of someone here illegally to over rule the rights of the people that are here legally. We have the right not to be leeched off of.

That's bullsh*t. It's not leeching when you're talking about a life and death situation. These people come here because they want opportunity and they want a better life. Do you know why this country is so powerful? Immigrants. Andrew Carnegie? Scottish immigrant- he didn't come here on a 5 year waiting period and need a sponsor and need to sit through a bureucratic ass f*ck line. What about the guy who founded Intel processors? An immigrant. Ebay - immigrants. All people who come to America and make our economy stronger. Do you think a f*cking fat-ass American child is going to contribute to the economy the way a hard working person who comes here for the sole purpose of working and earning money is going to? Answer that seriously. The whole process of immigrating to this country is a complete crock of sh*t and it takes so many years and so much bullsh*t processes that people don't even bother anymore. We tell China they can keep their oppressed scientists who want to come here and innovate. Middle eastern engineers who want to come here and invent things of the future are turned away. It's f*cked up, plain and simple. Your ancestors who came here through Ellis Island did not go through what an immigrant has to go through today. Part of my family has been here since the 1600s from Scotland, and they sure as hell did not need to go through a 3-5 year waiting period coupled with needing to marry someone to get sponsorship.

 

You simply CAN NOT do it that way. If you do, then you end up with U.S. citizens paying for the entire world's health. If you want to be a part of the system, you have to make your way in, and you have to pay for it.

 

Every other country has it, and they're doing just fine. France has the number one ranked healthcare in the world with their universal system. We're talking about HEALTHCARE. Not free handouts, government housing, government jobs, etc. This is f*cking healthcare man - life and death. You want to tell a dying immigrant child who was brought here by his parents, the ones who made the mistake, that he should go f*ck himself?

Edited by Irviding
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where do you make a cut-off then? What about permanent residents? Are they good enough for you? I really can't stand this whole notion of giving preferential medical care to people because they have citizenship or not. I don't give a f*ck if you're illegal or not, you deserve all the medical care you can get. We should have universal healthcare. We should treat everyone, and it should be funded with taxpayer money. This is f*cking healthcare, life and death.

Saying we need universal healthcare, or that healthcare is a right, or that teh HMOs are evil, etc. doesn't magically make more organs available for use. Because there are more people needing organs than there are organs available, a choice has to be made on who deserves the organ more. I believe an American citizen takes precedent over a non-citizen when it comes to who should receive it, sort of like a young person is more deserving of an organ than an old person.

izx6.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Where do you make a cut-off then? What about permanent residents? Are they good enough for you? I really can't stand this whole notion of giving preferential medical care to people because they have citizenship or not. I don't give a f*ck if you're illegal or not, you deserve all the medical care you can get. We should have universal healthcare. We should treat everyone, and it should be funded with taxpayer money. This is f*cking healthcare, life and death.

Saying we need universal healthcare, or that healthcare is a right, or that teh HMOs are evil, etc. doesn't magically make more organs available for use. Because there are more people needing organs than there are organs available, a choice has to be made on who deserves the organ more. I believe an American citizen takes precedent over a non-citizen when it comes to who should receive it, sort of like a young person is more deserving of an organ than an old person.

Then that's just a fundamental ideological difference, and I'm not going to convince you otherwise. After volunteering in a cancer treatment facility, and then eventually working there from age 13-18, you realize after seeing terminally ill children of all creeds, colors, and yes, immigration status, that little things like whether the child was born here or south of the border don't matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its the fair thing, and both sides get what they want.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. Like if you steal a Ferrari and get caught, and then they let you keep the Ferrari after a few years in prison. The criminal isn't supposed to get what they break the law to obtain.

Does the guy die if they don't give him the Ferrari?

user posted image
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Then that's just a fundamental ideological difference, and I'm not going to convince you otherwise. After volunteering in a cancer treatment facility, and then eventually working there from age 13-18, you realize after seeing terminally ill children of all creeds, colors, and yes, immigration status, that little things like whether the child was born here or south of the border don't matter.

What's your standard for judging who gets an organ and who doesn't? First come, first serve?

 

 

Also, I don't care about skin color or creed or that sort of thing. But I think immigration status does play a role. Let's say I went to Canada and I was dying from heart failure. The hospital that I went to there had only 1 spare heart, but had two people (me and a Canadian citizen) who needed it. I would reasonably expect them to give it to the Canadian citizen over me, because I wasn't a citizen and he was. It wouldn't be personal, just a tough choice they had to make.

Edited by Chunkyman

izx6.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leik oh em jeez!

 

Do you think a f*cking fat-ass American child is going to contribute to the economy the way a hard working person who comes here for the sole purpose of working and earning money is going to? Answer that seriously.

I'd just like to point out this specific question.

 

Option 1: Family of illegal immigrants comes to the US, get jobs in cleaning/construction, all share a small home, and one $300 car, and two TVs made in the 80s. All extra money is sent back to the rest of the family back in home country.

No job for Americans, so they're on unemployment.

 

Option 2: American kid gets job in construction, his mom in cleaning. He buys a new LCD TV, xbox, etc. And eventually a truck to drive to work.

No job for illegal immigrants, so they stay home.

 

Who works harder? They've both got the same jobs.

Who contributes to the economy more?

The immigrants take tax-free money out of the economy, and don't recirculate it back in. Just like a leech. In the process, now the government has to pay unemployment to the Americans.

The Americans family pays taxes, recirculates money back into the economy, and pay their part to be a part of the system. Everyone gets what they earn, no one has to rely on anyone else.

 

 

Why should I have to struggle harder to make some else's life easier? They need to take care of themselves, it's not my job to support them.

Edited by leik oh em jeez!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simple - Health Care is a right to everyone. Everyone no matter what position they stand in whether it be an illegal immigrant or not should receive treatment in any kind of disease or condition. Yeah, I get it, the man is a criminal, but to leave him dying in a hospital bed because he broke the law is the right thing to do?

 

Despite the fact that our economic system is at a high low, this man should deserve treatment. Give him jail time afterwards, not a problem. There's plenty of other people striving to situate themselves in this country, but it appears that this man just slid by and went with the flow. But like I said, health care is a right to everyone. Give him a transplant, and punish him afterwards. Simple.

The entire problem is that he is leeching the economy. Putting him in jail wouldn't help. He needs to go back to his home country immediately, and deal with his health there like he would have if he never came here. Is it a happy ending? No, but it's fair. That's the way it has to be. Don't allow the rights of someone here illegally to over rule the rights of the people that are here legally. We have the right not to be leeched off of.

You seem to be more concerned on the law rather than a life or death situation. I don't see what's the big f*cking problem here, it's only a transplant. Most transplants are performed without much flaw and the victim survives. What's the big deal? It's health care. We're human beings, we don't leave other people purposely dying in the middle of nowhere.

 

Leeching the economy? There's thousands of illegal AND legal Americans doing the same thing. Not paying their taxes, bills, all that stuff. Americans do it everyday I'm sure. This guy doesn't even make a huge difference. Sure, 14 years is a whole lot and whatnot but dammit I already said, it's a life or death situation. This guy dies, it's a tragedy to his entire family. This guy doesn't die, recovery and possible deportation, which is probably not a problem, at least not to him and his family of course. He'll have to survive without being in America, great. He broke the law, yes, but we can't control the law ourselves, otherwise we'll just have to resort to anarchy and the next day you know violence and crime will explode and hell will break loose. Health care dammit. Someone is dying, treat them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What's your standard for judging who gets an organ and who doesn't? First come, first serve?

 

Yes, and I agree with young before old. I knew a guy who I spent a day or so a week with at the cancer facility who was in his 80s. The guy was just on his way out, and he wasn't going to spend what money his family was going to inherit on heavy treatment. He was a funny guy. He always told me to get the nurses to dance in their thongs for him.

 

 

Option 1: Family of illegal immigrants comes to the US, get jobs in cleaning/construction, all share a small home, and one $300 car, and two TVs made in the 80s. All extra money is sent back to the rest of the family back in home country.

No job for Americans, so they're on unemployment.

 

So what? They're contributing to our economy, and who knows? Those kids will grow up with a stronger work ethic than most American children anyway. And sending money back to the home country isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

 

Option 2: American kid gets job in construction, his mom in cleaning. He buys a new LCD TV, xbox, etc. And eventually a truck to drive to work.

No job for illegal immigrants, so they stay home.

 

Who works harder? They've both got the same jobs.

Who contributes to the economy more?

The immigrants take tax-free money out of the economy, and don't recirculate it back in. Just like a leech. In the process, now the government has to pay unemployment to the Americans.

The Americans family pays taxes, recirculates money back into the economy, and pay their part to be a part of the system. Everyone gets what they earn, no one has to rely on anyone else.

 

 

American kids getting jobs in construction is pretty laughable. Most construction people are usually foreign, and even the inspectors and foreman are Indians now (they are very analytical). Anyway, it shouldn't matter. You're comparing apples to oranges - basically a poor family to a rich family. What about a poor American family that can't afford any of that stuff, and just put their money into buying 6 dollar McDonald's dinners every night. I fail to see how your argument makes any sense. You're essentially saying that affluent people contribute more to the economy than poor people, which is arguable as long as they aren't too affluent. People with >500 grand usually invest and save their money, which does absolutely nothing for the economy. You could refer back to Jackson taking all of the money of the treasury out of the bank and putting it into a safe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

leik oh em jeez!

 

Simple - Health Care is a right to everyone. Everyone no matter what position they stand in whether it be an illegal immigrant or not should receive treatment in any kind of disease or condition. Yeah, I get it, the man is a criminal, but to leave him dying in a hospital bed because he broke the law is the right thing to do?

 

Despite the fact that our economic system is at a high low, this man should deserve treatment. Give him jail time afterwards, not a problem. There's plenty of other people striving to situate themselves in this country, but it appears that this man just slid by and went with the flow. But like I said, health care is a right to everyone. Give him a transplant, and punish him afterwards. Simple.

The entire problem is that he is leeching the economy. Putting him in jail wouldn't help. He needs to go back to his home country immediately, and deal with his health there like he would have if he never came here. Is it a happy ending? No, but it's fair. That's the way it has to be. Don't allow the rights of someone here illegally to over rule the rights of the people that are here legally. We have the right not to be leeched off of.

You seem to be more concerned on the law rather than a life or death situation. I don't see what's the big f*cking problem here, it's only a transplant. Most transplants are performed without much flaw and the victim survives. What's the big deal? It's health care. We're human beings, we don't leave other people purposely dying in the middle of nowhere.

 

Leeching the economy? There's thousands of illegal AND legal Americans doing the same thing. Not paying their taxes, bills, all that stuff. Americans do it everyday I'm sure. This guy doesn't even make a huge difference. Sure, 14 years is a whole lot and whatnot but dammit I already said, it's a life or death situation. This guy dies, it's a tragedy to his entire family. This guy doesn't die, recovery and possible deportation, which is probably not a problem, at least not to him and his family of course. He'll have to survive without being in America, great. He broke the law, yes, but we can't control the law ourselves, otherwise we'll just have to resort to anarchy and the next day you know violence and crime will explode and hell will break loose. Health care dammit. Someone is dying, treat them.

Yes, Americans do the same thing sometimes, and when they're caught, they're punished. Be that by jail time, back taxes, and/or fees. That doesn't mean it's okay for illegal immigrants to be here. And you can't just say "One person doesn't make a difference" every time. Everyone is one person, what if all of Mexico needed the same thing, would you say "Helping one person isn't going to hurt out economy" to every single one? If not at zero, then where do you draw the line? Rights should be given by legal status, not by how many people did the same thing before you.

 

If you leave the opportunity open for someone to take advantage of the US, soon everyone else will follow.

 

@Irviding: Sending money back to the home country IS a bad thing. It literally leeches money from the economy. 99% of illegal immigrants have no desire to buy anything but the necessities, even if they do have the money. The net result is not a contribution to the economy, but a leech.

 

And to say that American kids getting jobs in construction is laughable is well, quite blind to what's actually happening. I'm American, and I'm a roofer.

Edited by leik oh em jeez!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How are they taking advantage when they want to come here for a better life? Was Andrew Carnegie taking advantage when he came here on a f*cking boat and became one of the top 3 wealthiest men in the country (adjusted for inflation, he still is richer than Bill Gates and Carlos Slim combined twice). He was taking advantage of the American dream. Why do you think other people can't do that anymore? Why do they need to go through 5 years of bullsh*t and have to marry someone to become a citizen?

 

I can't wait until 20 years from now when this nativist bullsh*t is over. It happened with the Irish, then the Chinese, then the Japanese, and now it's the Hispanics.

 

 

@Irviding: Sending money back to the home country IS a bad thing. It literally leeches money from the economy. 99% of illegal immigrants have no desire to buy anything but the necessities, even if they do have the money. The net result is not a contribution to the economy, but a leech.

 

And to say that American kids getting jobs in construction is laughable is well, quite blind to what's actually happening. I'm American, and I'm a roofer.

 

Again, wrong. It doesn't leech money from the economy. Maybe in the 19th century, but not today. This is a global economy, no matter how you look at it. It's not necessarily a drag on the economy if money goes down to Mexico, one of our largest trade partners. These people make up about 2 trillion of our GDP anyway according to most studies (you can go ahead and google it if you want). We could deport them and have no restaurant staff, no landscapers, and on top of that, lose tens of thousands of immigrants who come here to innovate and contribute to our country a hell of a lot more than you ever will.

 

99%? Really? Sounds like a crock of bullsh*t. I don't care if they send some of their money home. There is still contribution to the economy. They work jobs no one else wants to work, and there is a good percentage of them who want to serve in our military, who want to go to college and educate themselves. This country was never a limited access paradise.

 

 

It's not about being native or not, it's about being here legally or not, and contributing your part or not.

 

Clearly you're not familiar with how to immigrate to the US then, and you're talking out of your ass. An immigrant is contributing his part if he is cutting your lawn, just as an illegal who is going to college and trying to get a degree in engineering to innovate for our country. The fatass American kid living in his basement playing videogames sure is doing his part though, right? f*ck, even Newt Gingrich recognizes that immigrating to the US legally is a complete clusterf*ck. Go do some research and come back. It's not pretty.

Edited by Irviding
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.