Gene manipulation & Playing God

[OysterBarron]

Just watched the program horizon in the UK and there's some awesome and scary stuff being covered! They have found a way to to program life to an extent to suit there needs! Yeast making diesel, Taking luminescent jelly fish cells they can make there own synthetic version of the cells! Its turning into a huge industry apparently, Next Microsoft maybe? Have any of you followed this closely! iv'e only just heard about this and it seems amazing! They are dubbing it bio hacking as you use a computer to program the synthetic cells!

 

For those who want to know more i googled it for you!

 

GOOGLED

Edited January 18, 2012 by oysterbarron

[Robinski]

If God didn't want us doing these things he wouldn't have left his life-building code so easily decryptable.

[sivispacem]

 

If God didn't want us doing these things he wouldn't have left his life-building code so easily decryptable.

This.

 

We've already been able to create entirely synthetic replicas of single-cell organisms that breed, function and behave like their biological base suggests they should. Forget genetic modification; in all honestly we can't be that far from custom-made, self-replicating, entirely new synthetic organisms. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes that moral or religious beliefs should prevent us from conducting this kind of research should go live in a cave somewhere and stop bothering civilised society. We have already begun making significant progress towards curing supposedly incurable diseases, growing perfect replacement organs in laboratory conditions and all manner of other developments. I cannot even quite fathom the "playing God" argument by the religious loonies- I mean, if we're created in God's image, and have the power to do what he has apparently done, and free will, then there's surely no moral argument against it, as we're basically just creating new organisms the same way he apparently did.

[coin-god]

That assuming god exists. Even if he does, he gave us the power to understand how to do this. It would be ironical if he didn't want us to do it.

[Mike Tequeli]

The worst part about the playing God argument is that I get it a lot from people who aren't even religious. What exactly is their point? Are they just against learning a little too hard or something? I'm sick to death of hearing it because it has to be the sh*ttiest argument ever, in the sense that it isn't actually an argument, more of a catchphrase really.

 

I'm excited to see some truly unique new lifeforms created.

[Typhus]

It is our destiny to kill God. Literally, kill him. You know why he warned us against the 'sin' of pride? Because he fears us, he fears the unbridled power of the human mind. Once we prayed to him on bended knee, beseeching him for miracle cures and warmth and food. And now, thanks to our own ambition and work, we rely on ourselves.

I like the idea of playing God, the power he wielded like a pathetic child shall soon be ours, ours to use as we see fit.

 

I often considered how best to kill him. How does one murder God? But now I know, you make him obsolete, worthless. We shall ascend into Godhood and one day will conquer death itself. And all he'll be able to do is sit up there, impotent and weak, as we defile everything he told us was so very sacred.

 

And the funny thing is, he can't do a damn thing to stop us.

[K^2]

You guys are all living in the past. You can go and buy transgenic aquarium fish at Walmart. We're not entering age of genetic manipulation. We've been living in it for a few decades. How you feel about is absolutely irrelevant. It happened. It's done. All you can do is adjust your way of thinking to the fact.

 

Human modifications are yet to hit mass market. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if we already have a significant population of individuals with artificial genes, thanks to gene therapy and viruses. But the real turning point is a few years ahead, when we'll start directly modifying gamete DNA. Engineered gametes with subsequent in-vitro bypass both the legal and practical problems of human cloning/modification. If you want to have a child with blue eyes and blond hair, it can already be done. Safely and legally. Hell, give me a budget and I'll do it. It's that easy. The market simply hasn't caught up with capabilities yet. But it's a matter of years, not even decades.

 

And that is a good thing. Ever since we invented medicine, our genetic pool has been degenerating quite badly. The only difference between incest and what we've been doing is time scale. We've been in-breeding on global level for at least a couple of centuries now. It shows. There are only two solutions. Eugenics or genetic manipulation. And I'm for the one that doesn't get me called a Nazi. Yeah, it will be expensive at first. Yeah, the rich will get all the best genes. But it will trickle down. Best of all, we'd put selection back into place. It won't be natural selection anymore, but we'll have actual selection for advantageous genes, and that's what we badly need.

 

So yeah. Future is already here. Welcome and have a nice stay.

 

 

It is our destiny to kill God. Literally, kill him.

I think you are taking Nietzsche a little too literally.

[GrandMaster Smith]

 

I mean, if we're created in God's image, and have the power to do what he has apparently done, and free will, then there's surely no moral argument against it, as we're basically just creating new organisms the same way he apparently did.

 

LOL we're created in it's image because we have the intelligence to know right from wrong.. Just because you have the ability and freewill todo something, doesn't mean it's right todo it.

 

Now I won't argue that can definitely be some good that can come from genetically modifying things, but there can also be even worse repercussions.. An experiment with GM salmon a few years back showed that after being set in the wild, after the succession of ~40 generations they had all completely died off.. We've barely scratched the surface of genetics, we have so much more to learn before we think we can just manipulate anything we wish. We're going to kill ourselves off if we continue down this path of thinking that man is superior to god..

 

 

 

 

It is our destiny to kill God. Literally, kill him. You know why he warned us against the 'sin' of pride? Because he fears us, he fears the unbridled power of the human mind. Once we prayed to him on bended knee, beseeching him for miracle cures and warmth and food. And now, thanks to our own ambition and work, we rely on ourselves.

I like the idea of playing God, the power he wielded like a pathetic child shall soon be ours, ours to use as we see fit.

 

I often considered how best to kill him. How does one murder God? But now I know, you make him obsolete, worthless. We shall ascend into Godhood and one day will conquer death itself. And all he'll be able to do is sit up there, impotent and weak, as we defile everything he told us was so very sacred.

 

And the funny thing is, he can't do a damn thing to stop us.

 

Holy crap.. the ignorance.. ugh. Maybe you don't believe in God, maybe you do. But to say if there is one that "And the funny thing is, he can't do a damn thing to stop us".. that has to be the f*ckin stupidest thing I've ever heard lol. If God created the entire physical universe, designed and engineered the human body and breathed the very life into it, name one logical reason why God couldn't kill you in an instant if he wanted to?...

 

 

[sivispacem]

LOL we're created in it's image because we have the intelligence to know right from wrong.. Just because you have the ability and freewill todo something, doesn't mean it's right todo it.

"Conventional" religious wisdom dictates that God was the epitome of "good". "Conventional" religious wisdom teaches that God created living things. Ergo, creating living things is ethical.

[Typhus]

It is our destiny to kill God. Literally, kill him. You know why he warned us against the 'sin' of pride? Because he fears us, he fears the unbridled power of the human mind. Once we prayed to him on bended knee, beseeching him for miracle cures and warmth and food. And now, thanks to our own ambition and work, we rely on ourselves.

I like the idea of playing God, the power he wielded like a pathetic child shall soon be ours, ours to use as we see fit.

 

I often considered how best to kill him. How does one murder God? But now I know, you make him obsolete, worthless. We shall ascend into Godhood and one day will conquer death itself. And all he'll be able to do is sit up there, impotent and weak, as we defile everything he told us was so very sacred.

 

And the funny thing is, he can't do a damn thing to stop us.

 

Holy crap.. the ignorance.. ugh. Maybe you don't believe in God, maybe you do. But to say if there is one that "And the funny thing is, he can't do a damn thing to stop us".. that has to be the f*ckin stupidest thing I've ever heard lol. If God created the entire physical universe, designed and engineered the human body and breathed the very life into it, name one logical reason why God couldn't kill you in an instant if he wanted to?...

Well, why hasn't he killed me? Why not? Why does he allow me to insult him and call him out with impunity? Because he's a coward. He understands that his time is up, his time has come and went. For years he bullied the people of this world, playing his sick little games with them, screwing with their heads, condemning them for the very impulses he built into them. Creating an idea of 'sin' which encompasses every single human construct or idea.

 

God is the enemy of progress, he is the roadblock which bars the path to greatness, at every step he has belittled us and gave us the royal guilt-trip.

 

And now he knows that I have his number, he knows I'm wise to his act and he is afraid of me. I've seen inside his mind and know how he thinks. He is a coward, he doesn't have the guts to kill me, he is incapable of killing me because I am better than God. Is that 'logical' enough for you, dear child?

[K^2]

Typhus, have you ever considered that you are serving a purpose as a cog in the machine? You are showing what kind of pitiful and pathetic existence it is to be vain and ignorant to the rest of us. If there is a God and he has a plan, you are playing your part precisely as intended. Why should he possibly want to destroy you?

[Emhyr]

And now he knows that I have his number, he knows I'm wise to his act and he is afraid of me. I've seen inside his mind and know how he thinks. He is a coward, he doesn't have the guts to kill me, he is incapable of killing me because I am better than God. Is that 'logical' enough for you, dear child?

Are you trolling right now or you're being serious? I can't understand clearly.Don't you think that god is smarter then you? By definition he created you,he knows what you think,what you do,he can do everything,he can't die,obviously..so why would he spend his time (even if time probably doesn't exist in his life) on you,pathetic little creature he made to serve him or whatever? I don't know how you imagine god,I don't see him as human being,but you obviously see him as little Jesus who's walked on earth thousand years ago.

 

[GrandMaster Smith]

 

 

And now he knows that I have his number, he knows I'm wise to his act and he is afraid of me. I've seen inside his mind and know how he thinks. He is a coward, he doesn't have the guts to kill me, he is incapable of killing me because I am better than God. Is that 'logical' enough for you, dear child?

 

You think God, the infinitely powerful entity that created the universe along with all energy and matter within, is scared of YOU..? A puny human being on a piece of dust flying through the universe which itself it alone is SO MASSIVE in size that it is incomprehensible to our puny intelligence.. is afraid of You..?

 

He is incapable of killing you, because you are better than god? The very being sympathetic enough to even allow for a lowlife like yourself to even exist that created you and the universe for us to experience is below you how exactly..?

 

I have a feeling you're trolling because anyone who understands God and believes in it's existence would never be stupid enough to say the sh*t you just did lol.

 

[anus]

Why deos every topic in this section end up in a religious debate?

[OysterBarron]

Is it more of a question to say that maybe we may have mastered one of the sciences!

[Typhus]

Typhus, have you ever considered that you are serving a purpose as a cog in the machine? You are showing what kind of pitiful and pathetic existence it is to be vain and ignorant to the rest of us. If there is a God and he has a plan, you are playing your part precisely as intended. Why should he possibly want to destroy you?

Pathetic existence? Oh, you mean like an omnipotent being who doesn't even have the guts to show himself and silence one little naysayer? Now that is a pathetic, pointless existence. All that power and nothing to do with it.

I'm going to keep calling him a coward, and you can keep calling me 'ignorant', but the truth is that I know all about God, I know everything he's done and every sin he's committed. Like I said, I've seen into his mind and discovered the truth. And the truth is that he's a pathetic little child, as old as time itself but still lacking in maturity, intelligence or any other virtue he feels qualified to lecture us on.

He is a nobody. And I find it amusing that you insult me for calling him out on his bullsh*t, but that's okay. I forgive you your doubt.

I'm sure whatever God you believe in never showed himself, did he? Never answered your prayers, never returned your calls? You believed in him, loved him, and it got you nowhere.

Now, would you like it if I called you pitiful, pathetic, vain and ignorant?

Because from where I'm standing, I'm the wronged party and you just insulted me with zero provocation.

 

But no, no, I'm being silly. By all means, continue to defend God. Continue to defend a coward who won't even show up long enough to stop me mocking him.

[Viperman]

I don't believe in God.... Your all bananas. Yup I said it, Bananas.

 

Watched this horizon tonight. Absolutely brilliant science. I truly feel were in the greatest age of discovery, with some wonderful things just around the corner. Technology is about to explode again.

 

Agreed with warlord though. A debate about gods existence should be kept for another topic.

[OysterBarron]

Playing god is just the term used it does'nt really have anything to do with him directly, if anything we were created in his image so why should'nt we be able to create like he once did! we have gained the knowledge now! and even 4 year olds can do this science with an hours training its like magic almost. Its kind of surreal wathiching them do this process with the yeast. The diesel floats to the surface then the yeast is filtered out draining off one side and pure diesel runs down the other side . the thing i want to know is could this process be used to make water into wine?

[Creed Bratton]

I hope human modification will be possible even after birth. I'd love to augment myself. First, I'd augment my brain. I'm smart enough, so I'd opt for memory enhancement. I could use eidetic memory.

[Emhyr]

Why deos every topic in this section end up in a religious debate?

Didn't he mentioned god in the first place?

[OysterBarron]

I only mentioned god as it was the title of the horizon program!

[anus]

I hope human modification will be possible even after birth. I'd love to augment myself. First, I'd augment my brain. I'm smart enough, so I'd opt for memory enhancement. I could use eidetic memory.

If we're talking Deus Ex style augments, I'd definitely get the social enhancer.

 

THEN PROCEED TO LORD THE CLUB

 

[Typhus]

I hope human modification will be possible even after birth. I'd love to augment myself. First, I'd augment my brain. I'm smart enough, so I'd opt for memory enhancement. I could use eidetic memory.

And let me ask you, as a free minded human being, wouldn't you feel qualified to make those decisions yourself? How would you feel if you could, as you theorised, improve your body outside the petty confines of its original design only to be told that it went against 'Gods will'? You would be rightly furious. Who is God to patronise you? To treat you as a child?

And therein lies my argument. Man is God now. Man has taken over the role of God. If he has any objections to our actions, it hasn't stopped us reaching the moon or investigating the cloning process.

We are our own Gods, we no longer need to answer to this arcane tyrant. We have conquered him.

[Emhyr]

 

We are our own Gods, we no longer need to answer to this arcane tyrant. We have conquered him.

All I can say is...you play too much games,this "demon" cannot be defeated,if he exists of course.

[Creed Bratton]

 

I hope human modification will be possible even after birth. I'd love to augment myself. First, I'd augment my brain. I'm smart enough, so I'd opt for memory enhancement. I could use eidetic memory.

And let me ask you, as a free minded human being, wouldn't you feel qualified to make those decisions yourself? How would you feel if you could, as you theorised, improve your body outside the petty confines of its original design only to be told that it went against 'Gods will'? You would be rightly furious. Who is God to patronise you? To treat you as a child?

You know I don't believe in god. To me, that word represents an idea of our final stage of evolution. When we're fully evolved, we'll be like gods we created. And using technology to better ourselves and to evolve faster is completely natural. If we evolve enough to make that technology possible, that means our next step in evolutionary faze doesn't depend on outside sources. We will be able to control our evolution one day. Pretty soon too. It's really freaky when you think how incredibly correct a video game like Deus Ex is!

Edited January 19, 2012 by GTAvanja

[Typhus]

I hope human modification will be possible even after birth. I'd love to augment myself. First, I'd augment my brain. I'm smart enough, so I'd opt for memory enhancement. I could use eidetic memory.

And let me ask you, as a free minded human being, wouldn't you feel qualified to make those decisions yourself? How would you feel if you could, as you theorised, improve your body outside the petty confines of its original design only to be told that it went against 'Gods will'? You would be rightly furious. Who is God to patronise you? To treat you as a child?

You know I don't believe in god. To me, that word represents an idea of our final stage of evolution. When we're fully evolved, we'll be like gods we created. And using technology to better ourselves and to evolve faster is completely natural. If we evolve enough to make that technology possible, that means our next step in evolutionary faze doesn't depend on outside sources. We will be able to control our evolution one day. Pretty soon too. It's really freaky when you think how incredibly correct a video game like Deus Ex is!

Ah, but here's a pressing question: Aren't humans already conquering evolution? Other animals certainly build habitats for themselves. But we can create artificial heat to keep out the cold, we can give the disabled prosthetic limbs, even the concept of knowledge has been improved via the internet. We force our environment to evolve to suit our needs, rather than changing to survive our environment.

 

It's fascinating, isn't it? We are physically weak yet our minds allowed us to rise to the top of the foodchain.

[Creed Bratton]

We aren't conquering evolution. That's just what evolution is for us. To adapt sin a way that we can make nature adapt to us. That's still not entirely true. Just ask those people in Haiti and Japan how they feel about that. Some animals evolve to be faster or stronger, we evolved to be smarter. Everything we do is completely natural and it's our way of evolving. Maybe in a few million years if we're still around, we will look different physically as well. Who knows.

[OysterBarron]

I hope human modification will be possible even after birth. I'd love to augment myself. First, I'd augment my brain. I'm smart enough, so I'd opt for memory enhancement. I could use eidetic memory.

And let me ask you, as a free minded human being, wouldn't you feel qualified to make those decisions yourself? How would you feel if you could, as you theorised, improve your body outside the petty confines of its original design only to be told that it went against 'Gods will'? You would be rightly furious. Who is God to patronise you? To treat you as a child?

You know I don't believe in god. To me, that word represents an idea of our final stage of evolution. When we're fully evolved, we'll be like gods we created. And using technology to better ourselves and to evolve faster is completely natural. If we evolve enough to make that technology possible, that means our next step in evolutionary faze doesn't depend on outside sources. We will be able to control our evolution one day. Pretty soon too. It's really freaky when you think how incredibly correct a video game like Deus Ex is!

Its kind of like dues ex except as standard the materials produced by bio hacking do not get rejected by the body apparently! they did speak of using the materials produced for ligament repair!

[sivispacem]

There's absolutely no reason why we should reject biological or physical modifications. Materials like Titanium, Silver and Niobium are completely safe for use in prosthetics, bone repair and other internal uses with no fear or risk of rejection.

[anus]

Isn't silver prone to corrosion though?