Bully Fatally Stabbed, Killer Walks Free

[GreatGig]

So because budding criminals in your mind never learn we should just ignore them till some new budding criminal who's being picked on become the judge, juror, and executioner with repercussions or any outside calm headed third party?

Yeah that'll work.

Budding Criminals learn to get away with it.

They torment whom ever is available.

This is why Gangs form, either to beat on or prevent being beaten.

 

Until you have been tortured by a group of thugs you don't know what it feels like to fear going to school or even out in the neigbourhood. Friends disappear when you are targeted. The cops say, "Boys will be boys". Until your a bloody mess then it's, "What did YOU do to provoke it?", "Why didn't YOU go somewhere else.", "Stop hanging around the areas they are in.", "YOU know there's going to be trouble, why are YOU causing all this?", "Do YOU have any proof?", "Have YOU talked with the parents.", "That occured on school property, it's out of our hand.", "If you have proof bring it to an attorney."

How many days, week, months, of getting slapped in the back of the head everytime 'they' pass you, having your books and papers shreaded, your class projects sabatoged, your bicycle(s) destroyed, your lunchs taken or ruined, Your chair kicked in class and YOU being sent to the principals office for distruption of the class, do you take before you break, give-up, stop attending. You can't kill or even injure any of the thugs, because the others will take vengance on YOU for daring to hurt one of their own.

The Criminal Bully will never quit, he has no reason to not continue, it's ever so much fun to have POWER and know your can keep it up forever, until some snot nose puts a blade into you.

And the real RATS are those kids who know whats going on and are afraid to 'tell' on the bully.

 

Live it before you issue your condemnation on the kid.

Where in the bloody hell have you ever heard boys will be boys?

 

I've been in a few fights when I was younger (none ended with me stabbing any one in an adrenilin rush), mostly after I grew a pair and stood up to the ones that were doing the bullying and I have never I repeat, never heard any adult in a position of power just brush off spats like that.

Both parties were punished equally for the more extreme cases of diliquents I've known they either got sent to alt schools where they send all the sh*t heads, or Juvenile detention. No one was written off.

 

Now this might be a little different in the 3rd world country you seem to think you live in, but when it is brought to attention here in the real world it is handled in most cases. All you people condoning what this kid is doing sound like fear mongerer's on nbc after columbine.

I've actually heard that many times. Our headmaster in school would quite often brush off fights by saying "boys will be boys". After I had a run in with the police after retaliating to a guy who tried to bully me, he said, to both of us, "Although sometimes boys will be boys, they sometimes have to be men". Wise words but the bully was too thick to see what he meant and tried it again the next day. Adults who have the power to sort this stuff don't necessarily have the intelligence to do so. Sometimes their age becomes a factor too. Older men around here are well known as being "hard men", people who can handle themselves. The youth are known as fashion-loving sissies. The older men (as was the headmaster) are far more likely to tell you to grow a pair, man up etc. It seems that, luckily for you, some places are good and get this sh*t sorted. Unluckily for some of us, not all places are capable of this.

[Absurdity]

Yes. Spot f*cking on mate. It has nothing to do with the fact that I genuinely fear for my safety due to the fact I've been faced with guns, knives broken glass and bottles before. I carry a knife out with me every day with intent to stab someone - just the same as the thousands of other people who carry some form of weapon on their person in case they have to defend themselves with it. I've only ever felt the need to use my knife once in self defense and I'll happily say that it has saved my life more than once. If that makes me an irresponsible sh*tbag then so be it.

You're going to reflect the bullets are you? With your cutlass?

 

Get f*cked, Dundee.

 

 

[Pat]

No, I haven't, but it can't be that bad. At some point, you probably realize that you're killing him... And you stop.

You are by far the most infuriatingly ignorant person I have ever seen on these forums. Please, put at least a shred of research into adrenaline before passing judgment on it, because it is extremely obvious that you don't have even the slightest clue what you're talking about.

[Rebel]

No, I haven't, but it can't be that bad. At some point, you probably realize that you're killing him... And you stop.

You are by far the most infuriatingly ignorant person I have ever seen on these forums. Please, put at least a shred of research into adrenaline before passing judgment on it, because it is extremely obvious that you don't have even the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Does he ever know what he's talking about?

[.2D]

 

Yes. Spot f*cking on mate. It has nothing to do with the fact that I genuinely fear for my safety due to the fact I've been faced with guns, knives broken glass and bottles before. I carry a knife out with me every day with intent to stab someone - just the same as the thousands of other people who carry some form of weapon on their person in case they have to defend themselves with it. I've only ever felt the need to use my knife once in self defense and I'll happily say that it has saved my life more than once. If that makes me an irresponsible sh*tbag then so be it.

You're going to reflect the bullets are you? With your cutlass?

 

Get f*cked, Dundee.

Edit: In fact no, I wont insult you. You're clearly too stupid to address the rest of my post with any maturity so there's no point throwing petty insults around. Good day sir.

[fireguy109]

I support the bullied kid on this. He snapped, but it's not like he didn't have serious provocation. And while it may seem like 12 times is a bit excessive to some of you, if you're angry and the kid is down on the ground you could stab him 12 times in only a few seconds. I highly doubt your animal rage is going to simmer in that short of a time.

[lil weasel]

We've reached the point of this being a round-about,

the Bully backers don't understand being tormented to the point of nervous breakdown.

The tormented should just pack it in and stay home until the Bullyboys 'grow-up' and become home invaders.

 

 

[Tryst]

Has any one said they back the bullies? Not condoning the kids actions != backing the bully.

[Twang.]

All I'm saying is, if the kid didn't want to get stabbed, he shouldn't have been bullying anyone. Simple as.

[Absurdity]

Edit: In fact no, I wont insult you. You're clearly too stupid to address the rest of my post with any maturity so there's no point throwing petty insults around. Good day sir.

"Yes that's exactly what I do. You f*cking moron"

 

I caught it. Hardly worth the edit with all the effort you must have put in to that chief.

 

Your justification, is, what? You live in the today where we all unfortunately face frequent acts of violence and everyone else who wears sweat pants outdoors and is too f*cking stupid to lace their own trainers carries a knife.

 

Not much water in that then is there.

 

[ryuclan]

I wouldn't wish death on anyone but sometimes people keep asking to get their asses kicked. The kid this guy was bullying probably was much of a fighter. sh*t happens when people f*ck with other people for too long. I don't know the specifics but honestly I can't say I wouldn't have let the boy go if I was on the jury. The bully didn't deserve to die but the other kid did deserve to live his life without some jackass f*cking with him all the time. I don't know. The world keeps spinning.

[lil weasel]

I guess we can reach a consensus:

 

• No one should be allowed to defend themselves using any form of physical (contact) force, thus avoiding doing too much damage to their assailant or be subject to the full force of the law.

• Targets have the positive defense of staying home, or leaving the community.

• Bullies (and any overbearing persons) may continue their predations until a legal and proper authority intervenes.

• So as not to be considered a spoil sport (or Tattle-Tale) no person or persons (under age of 21) shall interfere by reporting such activities.

• Once aware of the situation the Authority must determine why the Target continues to antagonize the bully and put a stop to it by removing the target from the community.

 

 

[.2D]

 

Edit: In fact no, I wont insult you. You're clearly too stupid to address the rest of my post with any maturity so there's no point throwing petty insults around. Good day sir.

"Yes that's exactly what I do. You f*cking moron"

 

I caught it. Hardly worth the edit with all the effort you must have put in to that chief.

 

Your justification, is, what? You live in the today where we all unfortunately face frequent acts of violence and everyone else who wears sweat pants outdoors and is too f*cking stupid to lace their own trainers carries a knife.

 

Not much water in that then is there.

Yes. That's exactly what I was getting at.

 

 

I wasn't trying to hide anything from you with my last post, I just figured it better of me to not bother throw petty f*cking insults around. Maybe I should take a page out of your book, I mean who can't respect just how much effort you put into this;

 

 

You're going to reflect the bullets are you? With your cutlass?

 

Get f*cked, Dundee.

 

My justification on topic is that the kid had more than enough reason to believe he could have been seriously harmed, and therefore more than enough reason to defend himself, knife or no knife. He just so happeend to have a knife. If you'd bothered actually reading my post rather than picking at one sentence and making c*nty comments about it, you'd have seen that.

 

My justification for carrying a knife myself is again, because I genuinely fear for my safety in the areas I live in and/or have to travel through. Just the same as the rest of the thousands of people who carry weapons in case they have to defend themselves with them. Are they all irresponsible sh*theads too?

Edited January 6, 2012 by .2D

[Creed Bratton]

He's a kid. Kids can get overly emotional. Especially when they're victims of bullying. He acted in self-defense. Sure he over-reacted, but you can't expect an emotionally compromised kid to make a right decision. It was a good ruling even if he was wrong to stab him 12 times. But justice and law aren't the same thing. So if you think that justice demands the kid to be thrown in jail, tough luck. Law says otherwise. In this case however, I think justice and law are in perfect harmony. That kid bullied him, and he stopped him.

Edited January 6, 2012 by GTAvanja

[sivispacem]

My justification for carrying a knife myself is again, because I genuinely fear for my safety in the areas I live in and/or have to travel through. Just the same as the rest of the thousands of people who carry weapons in case they have to defend themselves with them. Are they all irresponsible sh*theads too?

For the most part, yes.

 

Statistically, your more likely to be attacked, killed or seriously injured if you are carrying a weapon in public than if not, so that kind of flies in the face of your whole "I fear for my safety" justification. In fact, carrying a knife in public makes you considerably less safe, according to all available statistics. So, what is left after that justification is rendered pointless- emotional support? That said, it's nice to see mandatory suspended prison sentences for people carrying concealed weapons in public at the moment, and burden of proof lies with the defendant to demonstrate that they had good reason to be in possession of the weapon, so if caught you should expect to spend some time at Her Majesty's pleasure.

[lil weasel]

What... "according to all available statistics"?

From whom, based on who's reports of what incidents?

 

You threaten me with your Orange, I show you my Apple, You run away. Who reported it?

Edited January 6, 2012 by lil weasel

[.2D]

I accept the fact that carrying a concealed weapon is probably a bad idea and could very well get me in a lot of trouble. As for it making me less safe, in some ways yes, you're right. But considering carrying some form of concealed weapon has undoubtedly saved my life or saved me from serious harm multiple times, I feel much safer carrying a weapon. Again, I realise the consequenses for carrying concealed weapon, but it's a risk I'm willing to take if it means I'm able to protect myself from harm if need be. Statistically you may very well be right on all accounts, but in my experience carrying some form of protection has done me far more good than it has bad.

[sivispacem]

 

What... "according to all available statistics"?

From whom, based on who's reports of what incidents?

Quite simple, really. There was a comparative study done a while ago (can't remember exactly when) which was based on research on the statistical likelihood of individuals carrying a concealed blade in the UK- not a high proportion by any means. This was cross-referenced with reports of victims taken to hospital whilst possessing a concealed weapon over a year-long period to provide a proportional statistic, which was then compared to the statistic for serious injuries caused by violent incidents over the same period. What do you know, those carrying concealed weapons were far more likely to be killed and injured in a violent incident than the baseline. Ergo, it's more dangerous to carry a concealed knife in the UK than it is to be without one.

 

 

But considering carrying some form of concealed weapon has undoubtedly saved my life or saved me from serious harm multiple times, I feel much safer carrying a weapon....but in my experience carrying some form of protection has done me far more good than it has bad.

How do you know this, though? How can you definitively say that "carrying a concealed weapon has saved my life" or saved you from serious harm? I mean, the fact you are carrying a knife precludes you from being able to know definitively what would have happened had you not been carrying one. Also, I'm not sure where you live- Basra? Mogadishu? - but, at the risk of sounding condescending, I honestly don't believe there's anywhere in the UK which is statistically so dangerous that carrying a concealed weapon is an effective way of protecting oneself.

 

Also, there's f*ck all point carrying a concealed weapon unless you've been properly trained in its use. If not, and you come up against someone else whose armed, then you're playing a dangerous game of "who can hit a vital organ by pure chance in a high-stress situation first" and the odds of one of you copping a serious injury are probably about 60% a head. If your capable of scaring muggers or assailants off by waving a blade in their general direction, it's safe to say they had no intention of causing you any harm in the first place.

Edited January 6, 2012 by sivispacem

[Fireman]

Your statistics are meaningless, why? (well not exactly meaningless, but they don't tell the entire story, people who carry weapons will be injured more often, but the reason isn't just carrying the weapon)

 

Because those people carrying weapons already had them for a reason (being assaulted/threatened/feeling unsafe before) and are much more stressed out than people who aren't carrying a weapon in the first place (because they apparantely feel safer), which will result in more violent incidents (first of all because there are weapons involved and second of all because they're more likely to "defend theirselves" and third because they already feel unsafe, thus they're on edge).

 

If these people weren't carrying a weapon but still felt as unsafe, they'd probably still end up with injuries in the hospital just because they're so pumped up while walking through the streets that they'd trigger the "fight response" sooner than others.

 

 

 

Anyway, that isn't even what this topic is about, it was about whether or not it was self-defense against death or greater bodily harm.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Fireman

[abishai.kochara]

saveedra went too far I would've hit back and gone off but stabbing? I mean come on! someone punches and you just kill him?

damn thats crazy!

he went too far, the bully got more than he bargained and this guy walked off...........

Edited January 6, 2012 by abishai.kochara

[GTA_stu]

 

Quite simple, really. There was a comparative study done a while ago (can't remember exactly when) which was based on research on the statistical likelihood of individuals carrying a concealed blade in the UK- not a high proportion by any means. This was cross-referenced with reports of victims taken to hospital whilst possessing a concealed weapon over a year-long period to provide a proportional statistic, which was then compared to the statistic for serious injuries caused by violent incidents over the same period. What do you know, those carrying concealed weapons were far more likely to be killed and injured in a violent incident than the baseline. Ergo, it's more dangerous to carry a concealed knife in the UK than it is to be without one.

 

 

Whilst I agree that carying a knife generally doesn't make you safer, those statistics don't necessarily tell the whole story. A relatively high proportion of those carrying knives will be gang members, be it highly organised or a rag tag bunch of yobs hanging around on the street corner. They will be far more likely to go looking for trouble and be involved in violent incidents in the first place. It doesn't take into account the different behaviours of of knife carriers or separate them into different categories.

 

If you hang around with a bunch of friends and you all carry knives, and you have "enemies" and generally are a trouble causer or get involved in more violent conficts then obviously you will be more likely to get injured or worse. But if you are a responsible person and a normal non yobbish type who avoids confilct whenever they can then there's no reason you wouldn't be "safer". Of course it depends on what you define by being "safer" in the first place.

 

Maybe not necessarily safer from injury, but you will be safer from crime. And although when you do get involved in a violent conflict the chance of injury may rise, the overall chance of being a victim of crime could very well be lower. It can act as a deterrent. I'm not saying it's the most effective or most responsible one, but it can act as one nontheless.

[anus]

I see nothing wrong here.

 

Infact, I think the judge made a very good decision.

[ZDANZ96]

 

I agree with the ruling, but he should've stabbed him once or twice, not 12.

I don't think the number of times he stabbed the bully would eventually mean something.

 

He could well stab him 34 times or 1337 times that wouldn't make any difference. Also, he got what he deserved. If I was in his place I would do the same or worse, like burning him alive?

[sivispacem]

 

I don't think the number of times he stabbed the bully would eventually mean something.

Why not? A single, injuring blow capable of taking someone "out of a fight" as it were is a perfectly legitimate, rational and proportionate action. Stabbing an injured, comatose and immobile individual who is incapable of defending themselves an additional 11 times, to the point of fatality, oversteps the boundary of what is considered "proportionate". You could argue it was "deserved", but "deserved" and "proportionate" are two different responses. Also, the longer an individual continues stabbing their victim, the greater the demonstration that the response is not out of necessity (fight versus flight) and is instead about calculated, aggressive rage. Stabbing someone multiple times over a period of more than a few seconds is usually taken as a sign of premeditation in violent attacks, as any "moment of madness" in a rational person would have passed.

[ZDANZ96]

 

I don't think the number of times he stabbed the bully would eventually mean something.

Why not? A single, injuring blow capable of taking someone "out of a fight" as it were is a perfectly legitimate, rational and proportionate action. Stabbing an injured, comatose and immobile individual who is incapable of defending themselves an additional 11 times, to the point of fatality, oversteps the boundary of what is considered "proportionate". You could argue it was "deserved", but "deserved" and "proportionate" are two different responses. Also, the longer an individual continues stabbing their victim, the greater the demonstration that the response is not out of necessity (fight versus flight) and is instead about calculated, aggressive rage. Stabbing someone multiple times over a period of more than a few seconds is usually taken as a sign of premeditation in violent attacks, as any "moment of madness" in a rational person would have passed.

Well, you can see that he stabbed him 11 more times to kill him. So that he would never bully him anymore.

 

He could well stab him a single time, but a fatal stab. In the neck. Of course it doesn't seem proportional because one thing is attack someone verbally, and another thing is attack someone with a knife.

 

And who knows? The bully could well bullied him with a knife back in the time, and he did it as a revenge. You can only know what goes behind the mind of a person who was bullied at least once in his life, when you already were under his situation. As I have said, I would do the same or worse to the bully.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ZDANZ96

[sivispacem]

Well, you can see that he stabbed him 11 more times to kill him. So that he would never bully him anymore.

 

He could well stab him a single time, but a fatal stab. In the neck. Of course it doesn't seem proportional because one thing is attack someone verbally, and another thing is attack someone with a knife.

 

And who knows? The bully could well bullied him with a knife back in the time, and he did it as a revenge. You can only know what goes behind the mind of a person who was bullied at least once in his life, when you already were under his situation. As I have said, I would do the same or worse to the bully.

Totally and utterly irrelevant. A single, fatal blow could be considered self-defence. An injuring blow that incapacitates the attacker, followed by 10 more to ensure a fatality, is disproportionate, regardless of circumstances. His life was no longer threatened, ergo no excuse for continued violence. You can argue all you want about whether he deserved it for his behaviour, but I'm talking in terms of pure proportionality.

[ZDANZ96]

 

Well, you can see that he stabbed him 11 more times to kill him. So that he would never bully him anymore.

 

He could well stab him a single time, but a fatal stab. In the neck. Of course it doesn't seem proportional because one thing is attack someone verbally, and another thing is attack someone with a knife.

 

And who knows? The bully could well bullied him with a knife back in the time, and he did it as a revenge. You can only know what goes behind the mind of a person who was bullied at least once in his life, when you already were under his situation. As I have said, I would do the same or worse to the bully.

Totally and utterly irrelevant. A single, fatal blow could be considered self-defence. An injuring blow that incapacitates the attacker, followed by 10 more to ensure a fatality, is disproportionate, regardless of circumstances. His life was no longer threatened, ergo no excuse for continued violence. You can argue all you want about whether he deserved it for his behaviour, but I'm talking in terms of pure proportionality.

Well you are talking about proportionality, and me about bullying.

 

Different concepts, different ways of talking about each subject. Even though they have quite a similar way of dealing: aggression, both mental and physical.

 

Sivispacem, did you ever suffer bullying to know very well this subject? Anybody else who did suffer, would agree with certain things. I mean these who have suffered both physical and verbally.

 

Yet, you can well make another post talking about how disproportional he was stabbing him 12 times instead of one, but to be honest, it is pretty stupid to stay counting how many times he was stabbed instead of investigating all of the process since the first time the bully, eventually bullied him.

[lil weasel]

Stabbed 12 times. Two were fatal. Which of the two were delivered when? Were they the first and second, or the eleventh and twelfth?

 

It's time to slow down. The real question now is: Should the Law be repealed or modified?

Should Judges be allowed to make pre-trial decisions?

Should Judges be allowed to pass judgement without the input of a Jury?

[Vil.]

 

Sivisspacem: Yeah, I can't imagine you get many adrenaline rushes sat at your PC looking up statistics on Google so I wouldn't expect you to understand. No matter how logical your arguements may seem, without any personal life experience you're arguing nothing but uninformed, moot points. Every single person in the entire world has a breaking point so proportionality is entirely irrelevant. Have you ever lost all control? Are you implying you're a saint? Take into account the victims frame of mind. He had been persistently persecuted by these bullies and tried numerous methods of avoiding confrontation which speaks a 1000 words about the boys rationality. He was pushed, he snapped, the bully got what was inevitiably coming to him. Good show.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Blacklisted.

[Tryst]

Stabbed 12 times. Two were fatal. Which of the two were delivered when? Were they the first and second, or the eleventh and twelfth?

 

It's time to slow down. The real question now is: Should the Law be repealed or modified?

Should Judges be allowed to make pre-trial decisions?

Should Judges be allowed to pass judgement without the input of a Jury?

While we are at it should we just throw out all semblence of a justice and skip it all, let the hot headed emotional kid make the judgement of who deserves to die? For all anyone knows the kid was a prick reguarly called the 'bullie's' mom a fat f*ck for no reason.

 

It doesn't matter which stab did the killing, you don't use a weapon with out the intent of killing some one. And you do not have the right to give that sentence, no matter how 'bullied' you are.