Bully Fatally Stabbed, Killer Walks Free

[Otter]

...oh, you want to get pedantic all of a sudden?

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wanton

 

 

Glad the cops helped... stop crimes? How about getting you head unpunched? Stolen property returned? Caught a mugger? What's the success rate for that, Charlie?

[Tryst]

I happen to not be dead, nor any one else by my hand, so success rate 100% thanks for asking.

2.

deliberate and without motive or provocation; uncalled-for; headstrong; willful

[d0mm2k8]

I really don't get the reason you people are emphasizing the '12 stabs' thing. You would be okay if it was one stab but 12 is too far? That one stab could of still killed the guy.

But y'know, because this kid was filled with adrenaline and rage due to being chased down (after attempting to flee) and a victim of unprovoked assault he wanted to make sure no harm would come to him (believe it or not you'd all do it, don't try to deny human instinct), he just flailed the knife into him.

This guy only wanted to cause misery and pain, hinder the victim life mercilessly, why the hell should the kid care about going into all out defensive mode. Which we would all do in that situation. Does that really make him a criminal?

If a usually nice animal was been mercilessly beaten and chased by a person for no reason, causing it to instinctively tear out his throat, would you blame the animal? Of course you wouldn't, its the persons only f*cking fault.

 

I believe this is justified.

Edited January 5, 2012 by d0mm2k8

[OchyGTA]

From what I could gather from the article, the kid took every chance to avoid this confrontation and thus has every reason to defend himself from an unprovoked attack even if it resulted in death so I do not see have any personal issues there. I am aware that US law is slightly different to UK law but it is likely he'd be prosecuted under voluntary manslaughter as he obviously had the intention to cause death or GBH (not sure what the equivalent is in the states) otherwise he wouldn't of had the knife. However, in the heat of the moment he obviously suffered a loss of control from the unprovoked attack so the act he committed is at the very least understandable.

[Adler]

Prospectively speaking, this case should teach pricks to think twice before bullying somebody. Better to let people know that they have the right to defend themselves rather than allow bullies to think they have vulnerable victims.

 

If one bully's death is enough to prevent further victimization of bullying then I'd say, "fair trade."

[GTA_stu]

There's a Naples in America now?

 

Anyways I think a murder charge is obviously not required, but some kind of charge is. I mean, regardless of the extent to which someone is antagonised, you can't just stab someone 12 times. In the chest and abdomen, and he was carrying a knife in the first place. Why would he need to carry a knife in the first place? There was some kind of pre-meditation here.

 

I see what people are saying about how he tried to avoid the situation and he acted under adrenaline and it was a moment where he lost control. But, "losing control" is not an excuse. Punch the guy, or at the very worst stab him once. But to stab him 12 times and in the abdomen and stomache tells me he was trying to kill him, or there was at least a degree of intent there. I don't seriously think he feared for his life. Why would he think his life was in danger?

 

If someone punches you in a bar, does that give you the right to kill them?

[lil weasel]

 

[...].

There is no excuse for murder (are you too thick to understand that? now quit with the insults when people don't agree with your viewpoint), there are literally a billion different ways (I counted) to handle bullying and not murdering some one in 'self defense' so why couldn't this guy off you know called a friend, maybe get on a different bus. sh*t, run even. No this kid did not do any of that, he fought back with a knife and stabbed the other kid. If you can't see the wrong in that you have some ethics issues going on.

People who say they can't rely on authority to help sound like people who haven't actually tried (no one likes a rat mentality) or have done something wrong themselves. (I can't call the cops because I'm holding a pound of coke!)

Sure florida law might agree with you, but I do not.

 

Budding criminals never learn, just as laws rarely prevent the criminaly minded from committing crimes.

Things like restraining orders arn't armed body armour, they are paper, which only an honest person will obey.

 

A Recap:

 

[the judge] based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. […]

Saavedra “demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno"

 

Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head

Saavedra attempted to get away […]

the judge said Saavedra had “no duty to retreat” and was “legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force

[saavedra] was in a place where he had a right to be and was not acting unlawfully. He had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm ... (He) was under attack from the first punch to the back of his head until he stabbed Dylan Nuno

 

[During the hearing] The judge also highlighted that Saavedra would skip school or find other ways home to avoid the bus.

 

Said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno’s mother. “I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.”

 

[Fireman]

 

You seem to be confusing self defense with an enraged attack of revenge towards all the times he was "bullied".

 

He wasn't fighting to survive, he got punched, he brought a knife with him, probably with the idea that he'd use it (in fact he showed it to two teens in the bus) at the first possible opportunity.

 

Seems like it wasn't the first time he got assaulted or harassed, else he wouldn't have brought a knife. Why didn't he go to the authorities?

He attempted to avoid the confrontation, he was pursued, attacked, and surrounded. He was defending himself and used lethal force to do it, which is justifiable by Florida state law. If it had been an enraged attack, it would have been unprovoked; he would have pursued the bully himself, and he wouldn't have tried to escape the confrontation multiple times. Explain to me how you truly believe this to be an aggressive attack when he didn't even want to fight in the first place. f*cking explain.

Could you explain me why he brought a knife to school if he wasn't being harassed/assaulted before or why he would feel the need to bring a knife to school and show it to his friends?

 

Since when are enraged attacks unprovoked? Enraged attacks are about provoking, provoking to the point that someone snaps, which he clearly did, as you described by this adrenaline rush. And what tells you that the bully didn't try to break loose while he was being stabbed, yet the killer kept stabbing him.

 

You keep showing up with the Florida state law that says the following:

 

"He had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm ..."

 

I'm doubting whether or not he was in danger of death or great bodily harm. The situation must've looked ten times as threatening to the killer as it was, because I wouldn't say a punch to the head is great bodily harm.

 

This is about whether or not it's actually morally justified, not if it's justified according to Florida state law, we know it is, we can all read.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Fireman

[Tryst]

Budding criminals never learn, just as laws rarely prevent the criminaly minded from committing crimes.

Things like restraining orders arn't armed body armour, they are paper, which only an honest person will obey.

 

A Recap:

 

[the judge] based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. […]

Saavedra “demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno"

 

Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head

Saavedra attempted to get away […]

the judge said Saavedra had “no duty to retreat” and was “legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force

[saavedra] was in a place where he had a right to be and was not acting unlawfully. He had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm ... (He) was under attack from the first punch to the back of his head until he stabbed Dylan Nuno

 

[During the hearing] The judge also highlighted that Saavedra would skip school or find other ways home to avoid the bus.

 

Said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno’s mother. “I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.”

So because budding criminals in your mind never learn we should just ignore them till some new budding criminal who's being picked on become the judge, juror, and executioner with repercussions or any outside calm headed third party?

Yeah that'll work.

[Adler]

There's a Naples in America now?

 

Anyways I think a murder charge is obviously not required, but some kind of charge is. I mean, regardless of the extent to which someone is antagonised, you can't just stab someone 12 times. In the chest and abdomen, and he was carrying a knife in the first place. Why would he need to carry a knife in the first place? There was some kind of pre-meditation here.

 

I see what people are saying about how he tried to avoid the situation and he acted under adrenaline and it was a moment where he lost control. But, "losing control" is not an excuse. Punch the guy, or at the very worst stab him once. But to stab him 12 times and in the abdomen and stomache tells me he was trying to kill him, or there was at least a degree of intent there. I don't seriously think he feared for his life. Why would he think his life was in danger?

 

If someone punches you in a bar, does that give you the right to kill them?

He was carrying the knife because their fellow teenagers had announced the fight on the bus already (yes, that detail was in the article). Repeatedly, he had tried to avoid the fight therefore simply possessing the knife does not imply that he had intended to kill. Rather, he sought to defend himself when given reason to i.e. when Jorge struck him.

[GTA_stu]

There's a Naples in America now?

 

Anyways I think a murder charge is obviously not required, but some kind of charge is. I mean, regardless of the extent to which someone is antagonised, you can't just stab someone 12 times. In the chest and abdomen, and he was carrying a knife in the first place. Why would he need to carry a knife in the first place? There was some kind of pre-meditation here.

 

I see what people are saying about how he tried to avoid the situation and he acted under adrenaline and it was a moment where he lost control. But, "losing control" is not an excuse. Punch the guy, or at the very worst stab him once. But to stab him 12 times and in the abdomen and stomache tells me he was trying to kill him, or there was at least a degree of intent there. I don't seriously think he feared for his life. Why would he think his life was in danger?

 

If someone punches you in a bar, does that give you the right to kill them?

He was carrying the knife because their fellow teenagers had announced the fight on the bus already (yes, that detail was in the article). Repeatedly, he had tried to avoid the fight therefore simply possessing the knife does not imply that he had intended to kill. Rather, he sought to defend himself when given reason to i.e. when Jorge struck him.

But the thing is there's a difference between using reasonable and excessive force when defending yourself. There was no way his life was in danger, a punch to the back of the head doesn't scream to me "oh sh*t I'm about to die". Was it reasonable to stab him after he was punched in the head? Debatable. To stab him multiple times, and in the chest and abdomen? I don't think that's reasonable at all. He took it way too far by stabbing him multiple times, when there was no justification to do so.

[SmC12]

But the thing is there's a difference between using reasonable and excessive force when defending yourself. There was no way his life was in danger, a punch to the back of the head doesn't scream to me "oh sh*t I'm about to die".

A punch to the back of the head can very much be fatal. So his life was in danger if he didn't defend himself and allowed the bully to continue taking punches at his head. It was completely justifiable.

 

If the victim had died and the bully walked free everyone would be saying "well why didn't he fight back?" or "he should've killed that motherf*cker", and when he actually does people say he's in the wrong? I really don't get it..

[Tryst]

No smc, we would be saying the bully should go to jail too. We aren't condoning what the bully does, just don't find the kid's actions a just reaction to what the bully was doing to him.

[GTA_stu]

But the thing is there's a difference between using reasonable and excessive force when defending yourself. There was no way his life was in danger, a punch to the back of the head doesn't scream to me "oh sh*t I'm about to die".

A punch to the back of the head can very much be fatal. So his life was in danger if he didn't defend himself and allowed the bully to continue taking punches at his head. It was completely justifiable.

 

If the victim had died and the bully walked free everyone would be saying "well why didn't he fight back?" or "he should've killed that motherf*cker", and when he actually does people say he's in the wrong? I really don't get it..

Oh yh you're totally right, I missed the detail where it said he stabbed and killed mike tyson. Sorry, but even a fully grown man would find it hard to kill another person with a punch to the back of the head. It said he was 14 when he stabbed him, and I think the bully was a year older than him? So a 15 year old punching you in the back of the head, unless the kid is a hulking 6ft plus monster really is not life threatening.

 

The only reason he got off is because he was a minor. If it had been adults instead of kids, then I can pretty much gaurantee he would be going to jail.

[Greenline]

Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra).

ADRENALINE. Do you not have any f*cking idea how basic human responses to situations work? He was not actively thinking "I'm going to stab him twelve times," he was fighting to survive. It is the most basic function of the fight

Yeah, I understand that, but 12 times? Act like you're holding a knife, and stab 12 times. Take the amount of effort it takes in order to get through someone's body into consideration too. Did you notice anything? 12 times just seems unnatural, even when you take adrenalin into consideration. This kid is obviously sick, and he shouldn't just get away with it.

[.2D]

I believe this was completely justified. Pat more or less read my mind with his argument. But as for the knife, I see nothing wrong or premeditated about him carrying a knife. I carry a small knife with me everywhere I go and it's saved me from more confrontation than I care to mention. I don't take a knife out with me thinking "I'm going to stab someone", I carry it knowing that if I have to defend myself, it gives me one hell of an advantage. This could very well have been the case here, for all we know he's always carried the knife with him and in this instance, he snapped and used it to defend himself. Maybe he had only been carrying it with him since he started being bullied in case he needed it. I'd say if you're out numbered and fear for your safety, that's a damn good time to defend yourself any way you can.

 

Stabbing the bully 12 times could very well have been a bit exessive, but as has been said previously, once adrenaline kicks in and basic survival instict kicks in, he wouldn't have been thinking about what he was doing, simply fighting to keep himself from harm. At the same however, whether he stabbed the guy 12 times or not, a punch to the face could have killed him just as easily as a knife to the heart.

Considering the kid tried multiple methods and multiple times to avoid any confrontation before being faced with a group of others who had been taunting him and previously announced that they were going to fight him, with or without the knife he had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of being seriously harmed and defended himself. I strongly believe that had he defended himself with his fists or gone to the authorities, the outcome would have been much different for him. Sure, he took another kids life, but I guarantee you he will not be bullied again. Hopefully it also serves as a message for other bullies.

[Absurdity]

I don't take a knife out with me thinking "I'm going to stab someone",

What in the flying f*ck else are you going to do with a knife? You daft git.

[.2D]

I don't take a knife out with me thinking "I'm going to stab someone",

What in the flying f*ck else are you going to do with a knife? You daft git.

There's thousands of different uses for a knife. I mean fair enough, I don't take it out thinking I'm Bear f*cking Grylls and if I happen to get stranded in a rainforst, it could save my life; but surely you understood what I meant? I mean really?

[Democrab]

So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail.

Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense.

So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right?

Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything.

 

You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously.

Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra).

Have you ever been in a situation where adrenaline is taking over? Don't bother lying about it, I can tell you haven't. You don't have control when it is, at all.

 

I once beat up my best friend after we had a row and he kept trying to start a fight for an hour, I can't even remember what happened during the fight. I just remember seeing him running up to me and then later, him being taken away by a teacher. I could have just punched him a bit to make him f*ck off, but instead I pretty much thrashed him.

 

This is good news, hopefully other people read this and realise they can't take bullying too far.

[Greenline]

So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail.

Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense.

So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right?

Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything.

 

You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously.

Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra).

Have you ever been in a situation where adrenaline is taking over? Don't bother lying about it, I can tell you haven't. You don't have control when it is, at all.

No, I haven't, but it can't be that bad. At some point, you probably realize that you're killing him... And you stop.

[.2D]

 

So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail.

Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense.

So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right?

Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything.

 

You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously.

Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra).

Have you ever been in a situation where adrenaline is taking over? Don't bother lying about it, I can tell you haven't. You don't have control when it is, at all.

No, I haven't, but it can't be that bad. At some point, you probably realize that you're killing him... And you stop.

No, you really don't. In fact in many cases I've completely forgotten the majority of anything that escalated into a fight. You don't just 'stop', you stop when the adrenaline wears down or you're physically stopped, in my experience at least. If you've never been in a situation where you're taken over by adrenaline, then you're the last person to talk against it.

[GTA_stu]

So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail.

Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense.

So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right?

Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything.

 

You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously.

Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra).

Have you ever been in a situation where adrenaline is taking over? Don't bother lying about it, I can tell you haven't. You don't have control when it is, at all.

 

I once beat up my best friend after we had a row and he kept trying to start a fight for an hour, I can't even remember what happened during the fight. I just remember seeing him running up to me and then later, him being taken away by a teacher. I could have just punched him a bit to make him f*ck off, but instead I pretty much thrashed him.

 

This is good news, hopefully other people read this and realise they can't take bullying too far.

You're acting as if adrenaline takes away the ability to act naturally and doesn't allow a person to think rationally. It doesn't just reduce people to animalistic instincts and make them go crazy. People get adrenaline rushes in all kinds of situations, but it doesn't in any way excuse a persons actions just because "they had more energy" which when it comes down to it is basically what adrenaline does it gives you more energy.

 

I get adrenaline rushes sometimes when I pay football, doesn't mean I can go around decking anyone who looks at me funny without gettting a red card. "No no it's ok ref, I only punched him because I was on an adrenaline rush". Seriously too much is being made of this whole "he was out of control because he had adrenaline flowing through him".

 

I once got in a fight with my best friend too, we both had adrenaline running through us. Then after about 10 seconds of our little hissy cuffs, he turned to me and said "come on lets just be friends" and even though I had adrenaline running through me, which you might think would make me sense his weakness and take a chunk out of his jugular, I actually shook his hand and said "yh ok lets stop this stupid thing".

 

 

[lil weasel]

 

So because budding criminals in your mind never learn we should just ignore them till some new budding criminal who's being picked on become the judge, juror, and executioner with repercussions or any outside calm headed third party?

Yeah that'll work.

Budding Criminals learn to get away with it.

They torment whom ever is available.

This is why Gangs form, either to beat on or prevent being beaten.

 

Until you have been tortured by a group of thugs you don't know what it feels like to fear going to school or even out in the neigbourhood. Friends disappear when you are targeted. The cops say, "Boys will be boys". Until your a bloody mess then it's, "What did YOU do to provoke it?", "Why didn't YOU go somewhere else.", "Stop hanging around the areas they are in.", "YOU know there's going to be trouble, why are YOU causing all this?", "Do YOU have any proof?", "Have YOU talked with the parents.", "That occured on school property, it's out of our hand.", "If you have proof bring it to an attorney."

How many days, week, months, of getting slapped in the back of the head everytime 'they' pass you, having your books and papers shreaded, your class projects sabatoged, your bicycle(s) destroyed, your lunchs taken or ruined, Your chair kicked in class and YOU being sent to the principals office for distruption of the class, do you take before you break, give-up, stop attending. You can't kill or even injure any of the thugs, because the others will take vengance on YOU for daring to hurt one of their own.

The Criminal Bully will never quit, he has no reason to not continue, it's ever so much fun to have POWER and know your can keep it up forever, until some snot nose puts a blade into you.

And the real RATS are those kids who know whats going on and are afraid to 'tell' on the bully.

 

Live it before you issue your condemnation on the kid.

[Absurdity]

I don't take a knife out with me thinking "I'm going to stab someone",

What in the flying f*ck else are you going to do with a knife? You daft git.

There's thousands of different uses for a knife. I mean fair enough, I don't take it out thinking I'm Bear f*cking Grylls and if I happen to get stranded in a rainforst, it could save my life; but surely you understood what I meant? I mean really?

You're carrying a knife with the means of protecting yourself in an altercation. What do you think is going to happen in that circumstance? What happens when blades gets entangled in flesh? You're going to stab someone you irresponsible little sh*tbag.

 

Every time you step over that door you go out thinking "I'm going to stab someone".

 

ffs, bring back conscription.

 

[GreatGig]

I'm in the middle. I mean we don't know the backstory and for how long he was being bullied etc. All we know is that he snapped. If it was just threats and name calling then I think he went a little too far. It says the 'bully' punched him, so assuming he didn't have a weapon of his own it was a little extreme to stab him 12 times. But then again like I said there could have been underlying reasons for his actions and this could have been like the peak of his frustration.

 

Bullies should always get what they deserve though.

Agreed.

 

"Dylan Nuno’s family and friends have defended the teen, saying repeatedly he was not a bully and in fact transferred from Lely High School to Palmetto Ridge to escape taunting himself."

 

This is one thing I've always heard about from bullies and the like. Apparently they aren't capable of bullying just because they were bullied themselves. Bullsh*t. If anything, it gives them more of a reason to bully others. I hate and despise bullies so I agree with the courts decision. Stabbing the kid twelve time though, that's a bit much. But as the chap I quoted pointed out, we know nothing more than we've read here.

[SmC12]

 

You're acting as if adrenaline takes away the ability to act naturally and doesn't allow a person to think rationally. It doesn't just reduce people to animalistic instincts and make them go crazy. People get adrenaline rushes in all kinds of situations, but it doesn't in any way excuse a persons actions just because "they had more energy" which when it comes down to it is basically what adrenaline does it gives you more energy.

 

I get adrenaline rushes sometimes when I pay football, doesn't mean I can go around decking anyone who looks at me funny without gettting a red card. "No no it's ok ref, I only punched him because I was on an adrenaline rush". Seriously too much is being made of this whole "he was out of control because he had adrenaline flowing through him".

 

I once got in a fight with my best friend too, we both had adrenaline running through us. Then after about 10 seconds of our little hissy cuffs, he turned to me and said "come on lets just be friends" and even though I had adrenaline running through me, which you might think would make me sense his weakness and take a chunk out of his jugular, I actually shook his hand and said "yh ok lets stop this stupid thing".

But you weren't being bullied by your best friend. That's the point your missing. Bullying seriously affects your mental health and your emotions to the point of suicide just to aviod feeling that way. Some stupid banter leading to an argument which leads to a fight is stupid and in most cases the two people see some sense and realise what they're doing and stop. When your being bullied you see things very differently and given the chance to get revenge and unload your built up frustration on the one person who has made your life hell is exactly what happened in this case - there is nothing that would have stopped that kid stabbing him untill he had no energy left. The point is he was already suffering, and then when he knew he couldn't escape without being attacked the only option was to defend himself. He tried to escape the situation, instead of agreeing to meet at the location and fight. That is why it is self-defense, because he didn't want to do it, he had to.

 

It's really impossible to justify what was the right thing to do without putting yourself in his situation with the effects of bullying being built up over time to the point where there's nothing else he can do unless he wants to be injured. And like I said before, they may have been 14-15 at the time, but the bullies attack could have been just as fatal as two 30 year olds. The majority of murders I hear about around here are from people younger than these two who have killed people in their 20s and 30s. Their age has nothing to do with how much danger his life was in, it is just as serious no matter what age.

[Tryst]

So because budding criminals in your mind never learn we should just ignore them till some new budding criminal who's being picked on become the judge, juror, and executioner with repercussions or any outside calm headed third party?

Yeah that'll work.

Budding Criminals learn to get away with it.

They torment whom ever is available.

This is why Gangs form, either to beat on or prevent being beaten.

 

Until you have been tortured by a group of thugs you don't know what it feels like to fear going to school or even out in the neigbourhood. Friends disappear when you are targeted. The cops say, "Boys will be boys". Until your a bloody mess then it's, "What did YOU do to provoke it?", "Why didn't YOU go somewhere else.", "Stop hanging around the areas they are in.", "YOU know there's going to be trouble, why are YOU causing all this?", "Do YOU have any proof?", "Have YOU talked with the parents.", "That occured on school property, it's out of our hand.", "If you have proof bring it to an attorney."

How many days, week, months, of getting slapped in the back of the head everytime 'they' pass you, having your books and papers shreaded, your class projects sabatoged, your bicycle(s) destroyed, your lunchs taken or ruined, Your chair kicked in class and YOU being sent to the principals office for distruption of the class, do you take before you break, give-up, stop attending. You can't kill or even injure any of the thugs, because the others will take vengance on YOU for daring to hurt one of their own.

The Criminal Bully will never quit, he has no reason to not continue, it's ever so much fun to have POWER and know your can keep it up forever, until some snot nose puts a blade into you.

And the real RATS are those kids who know whats going on and are afraid to 'tell' on the bully.

 

Live it before you issue your condemnation on the kid.

Where in the bloody hell have you ever heard boys will be boys?

 

I've been in a few fights when I was younger (none ended with me stabbing any one in an adrenilin rush), mostly after I grew a pair and stood up to the ones that were doing the bullying and I have never I repeat, never heard any adult in a position of power just brush off spats like that.

Both parties were punished equally for the more extreme cases of diliquents I've known they either got sent to alt schools where they send all the sh*t heads, or Juvenile detention. No one was written off.

 

Now this might be a little different in the 3rd world country you seem to think you live in, but when it is brought to attention here in the real world it is handled in most cases. All you people condoning what this kid is doing sound like fear mongerer's on nbc after columbine.

[.2D]

I don't take a knife out with me thinking "I'm going to stab someone",

What in the flying f*ck else are you going to do with a knife? You daft git.

There's thousands of different uses for a knife. I mean fair enough, I don't take it out thinking I'm Bear f*cking Grylls and if I happen to get stranded in a rainforst, it could save my life; but surely you understood what I meant? I mean really?

You're carrying a knife with the means of protecting yourself in an altercation. What do you think is going to happen in that circumstance? What happens when blades gets entangled in flesh? You're going to stab someone you irresponsible little sh*tbag.

 

Every time you step over that door you go out thinking "I'm going to stab someone".

 

ffs, bring back conscription.

Yes. Spot f*cking on mate. It has nothing to do with the fact that I genuinely fear for my safety due to the fact I've been faced with guns, knives broken glass and bottles before. I carry a knife out with me every day with intent to stab someone - just the same as the thousands of other people who carry some form of weapon on their person in case they have to defend themselves with it. I've only ever felt the need to use my knife once in self defense and I'll happily say that it has saved my life more than once. If that makes me an irresponsible sh*tbag then so be it.

[Democrab]

So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail.

Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense.

So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right?

Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything.

 

You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously.

Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra).

Have you ever been in a situation where adrenaline is taking over? Don't bother lying about it, I can tell you haven't. You don't have control when it is, at all.

 

I once beat up my best friend after we had a row and he kept trying to start a fight for an hour, I can't even remember what happened during the fight. I just remember seeing him running up to me and then later, him being taken away by a teacher. I could have just punched him a bit to make him f*ck off, but instead I pretty much thrashed him.

 

This is good news, hopefully other people read this and realise they can't take bullying too far.

You're acting as if adrenaline takes away the ability to act naturally and doesn't allow a person to think rationally. It doesn't just reduce people to animalistic instincts and make them go crazy. People get adrenaline rushes in all kinds of situations, but it doesn't in any way excuse a persons actions just because "they had more energy" which when it comes down to it is basically what adrenaline does it gives you more energy.

 

I get adrenaline rushes sometimes when I pay football, doesn't mean I can go around decking anyone who looks at me funny without gettting a red card. "No no it's ok ref, I only punched him because I was on an adrenaline rush". Seriously too much is being made of this whole "he was out of control because he had adrenaline flowing through him".

 

I once got in a fight with my best friend too, we both had adrenaline running through us. Then after about 10 seconds of our little hissy cuffs, he turned to me and said "come on lets just be friends" and even though I had adrenaline running through me, which you might think would make me sense his weakness and take a chunk out of his jugular, I actually shook his hand and said "yh ok lets stop this stupid thing".

Except that's exactly what it does do. That's no-where near the level of the rush we're talking about, it's like saying "Just because my Yugo can't get above the speed limit and speed, it means that the guy in the Ferarri down the road can't either!"

 

And some people react much more badly to jibes than others, this other kid who I was friends with before this ended up killing himself about 4 years later so he was obviously unbalanced.

[GTA_stu]

But you weren't being bullied by your best friend. That's the point your missing. Bullying seriously affects your mental health and your emotions to the point of suicide just to aviod feeling that way. Some stupid banter leading to an argument which leads to a fight is stupid and in most cases the two people see some sense and realise what they're doing and stop. When your being bullied you see things very differently and given the chance to get revenge and unload your built up frustration on the one person who has made your life hell is exactly what happened in this case - there is nothing that would have stopped that kid stabbing him untill he had no energy left. The point is he was already suffering, and then when he knew he couldn't escape without being attacked the only option was to defend himself. He tried to escape the situation, instead of agreeing to meet at the location and fight. That is why it is self-defense, because he didn't want to do it, he had to.

 

It's really impossible to justify what was the right thing to do without putting yourself in his situation with the effects of bullying being built up over time to the point where there's nothing else he can do unless he wants to be injured. And like I said before, they may have been 14-15 at the time, but the bullies attack could have been just as fatal as two 30 year olds. The majority of murders I hear about around here are from people younger than these two who have killed people in their 20s and 30s. Their age has nothing to do with how much danger his life was in, it is just as serious no matter what age.

That's a fair point but whilst it is understandable that the guy must have been in a horrible place, you have to view it from a distance. If we were in his position and although we don't know the full story here, lets assume the worst case. Lets assume this bully was incredibly sadistic and nasty and made this guys life a living hell. If we were in his position, would we want to kill the bully? Almost certainly yes. But that doesn't make it right. It's not about revenge or what the victim wants. It's about what is morally and legally right.

 

The bully did not deserve to die, maybe get a whooping but he didn't deserve to die.