Pat Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 NAPLES — A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution. A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling. Nuno’s family and friends criticized Collier County Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie’s decision, calling it “unbelievable” and “heartbreaking.” “We know this wasn’t the right decision,” said Dylan’s aunt, Adriana Nuno.“(The judge) is showing those kids it’s OK to get away with murder.” Saavedra, who was 14 at the time of the stabbing, was charged as a juvenile. If found guilty, the former Palmetto Ridge High student would have been released by the age of 21. Brodie’s ruling concluded that Saavadra, who said he was bullied and tried avoid a fight with Nuno, did not act unlawfully. She added that Saavadra had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm. Brodie based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. Saavedra showed a pocket knife to two teens on the bus that afternoon. In a nine-page document released Tuesday by the State Attorney’s Office, Brodie stated that by getting off the bus several stops before the location where the fight was to happen, Saavedra “demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno.” Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head, according to court documents and testimony. Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart. In her decision, signed Dec. 30, 2011, the judge said Saavedra had “no duty to retreat” and was “legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force.” “The defendant was in a place where he had a right to be and was not acting unlawfully. He had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm ... (He) was under attack from the first punch to the back of his head until he stabbed Dylan Nuno.” Prosecutors will not be appealing the case, a move that upset Dylan Nuno’s family and friends. “We’ve reviewed the decision,” said Samantha Syoen, spokeswoman for the State Attorney’s Office. “There does not appear to be any issues to appeal.” Saavedra’s lawyer, Donald Day, called the case “a tragedy all the way around.” Saavedra is currently living with his family in Miami. “My reaction is there is no winner at all in this case,” Day said. “My client’s family feels terribly for the Nuno family.” The judge’s decision came as a surprise to Adriana Aradas, 19, a close friend of Dylan Nuno who sat with his family for the December hearing, wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with messages for the teen. “I wasn’t’ expecting that at all,” Aradas said. “At the last hearing, there was so much against Jorge.” During that hearing, students recounted for the judge previous altercations between the two teens, including one instance on the bus when something was lobbed from the back, where Dylan Nuno sat, to the front, where Saavedra was. The judge also highlighted that Saavedra would skip school or find other ways home to avoid the bus. Though the judge’s order does not mention the term “bullying,” which was heavily used by the defense, it does describe “taunting comments” from Dylan Nuno and two other male teens shortly before the fight. Dylan Nuno’s family and friends have defended the teen, saying repeatedly he was not a bully and in fact transferred from Lely High School to Palmetto Ridge to escape taunting himself. Their hopes for a bench trial before Brodie are now gone, weeks before the anniversary of his death and what would have been Dylan Nuno’s 18th birthday. “Brodie’s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,” said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno’s mother. “I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.” Yet after months of seeing Saavedra in the courtroom, there is some closure in the fact that they will no longer have to see the teen’s killer on what at times in 2011 was on a monthly basis. “Whatever happens, whether (Saavedra) would have gotten time, it’s not going to bring Dylan back,” said Adriana Nuno. “We’ll have to move on, unfortunately without our Dylan.” http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03...fense-ca/?partn So, what are everyone's thoughts on this? Personally I support the ruling. Jorge's stabbing might have been exacerbated, but he was acting in self-defense. He knew that the bully was going to attempt to harass him, he took precautions to avoid it, and when he was finally faced with confrontation, he acted in self-defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil weasel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Interesting. In my state only a business owner on his premises, and home owner in his home can 'stand and defend' otherwise it is required to retreat. A defense of Immediate danger to life and limb can be tried especially when defending a third party, but the courts don't like it. Edited January 4, 2012 by lil weasel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bread Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 He was in a state of harm. Go ahead and stab the f*cker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus. Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 While acting in self-defense is all good, I don't think taking the bully's life was fully justified. 12 stabs to the gut? I can sympathise with Saavedra's anger and frustration in his retaliation, but I do think he'd taken this too far, even with a bully. How will he react next time he becomes overly angered? If any good comes from this, hopefully bullies worldwide with rethink their actions before they mess with others, especially a loose canon like Saavedra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpain Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Depressing really. I know the feeling of someone pushing you to the edge and doing something drastic. We've all been in those shoes before I guess. But to stab someone is taking it to the extreme. It is understandable for the kid to take action but 12 times? Wasn't one enough? There isn't much to be done about it already. Someone's dead, can't help that fact. The best thing to do now is to talk to the killer kid. He has a Dark Passenger now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) In my state only a business owner on his premises, and home owner in his home can 'stand and defend' otherwise it is required to retreat. I know what law you're referring to, and it has to be one of the single most idiotic laws in existence. It's basically saying "you do not have the right to defend yourself." If I believe that myself or others are in immediate danger, I should not be prosecuted when I defend myself rather than fleeing. Nevermind the fact that even if I do flee, there's still the chance that my attacker will pursue, and what am I supposed to do then? Honestly, I'm trying to think of a law that is currently in place that I support less and I just cannot do it. As for the comments that go along the lines of "couldn't he have stabbed him once," adrenaline. He was in the heat of the moment, and in the heat of the moment, you do not think, you act. If you stop to think, you will die; this is a basic function of the fight or flight response. Thus, as I already mentioned, while it may have been exacerbated, it was by no means as gratuitous as some seem to interpret it. Edited January 4, 2012 by Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn 7 five 11 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I support this ruling. People should not bully, if it is persistent it drives you to the edge, and you f*cking snap . I know the feeling, hopefully this will be a warning to bullies not to f*ck them too much. c*nts. I'm sorry if you choose to disagree, this is my personal belief, and although the family has lost a loved one, they should know better to train their kids. I would not say i fully support it, but bullying does make people snap, or constant nagging/annoying, bearing this in mind, and @Pat it was in the heat of the moment, usually you do what you feel is necessary to stop the attacker, and i guess this is what the person thought as necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coin-god Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 He got what he deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPMovies Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I agree with the ruling, but he should've stabbed him once or twice, not 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnyBlack Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I can't say I feel sorry for him, the way I see it he got what he deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDP992 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It's tough cause he was bully but then again these are 14 year olds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenline Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmC12 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm in the middle. I mean we don't know the backstory and for how long he was being bullied etc. All we know is that he snapped. If it was just threats and name calling then I think he went a little too far. It says the 'bully' punched him, so assuming he didn't have a weapon of his own it was a little extreme to stab him 12 times. But then again like I said there could have been underlying reasons for his actions and this could have been like the peak of his frustration. Bullies should always get what they deserve though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail. Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hello there, anger management issues? Plenty of people are bullied and none of them pull a knife and stab someone twelve times, they defended it as self defense, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenline Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail. Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense. So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer783 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 He was a bully, he pushed him to far. In all honesty I have no sympathy for bullies. The kid acted in self defense and stabbed him lot. This message should be known to all bullies that you could only push someone to far, to the point of them fighting back. To the bully who died ? Glad to see another one of you guys gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3niX Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well... So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right? The story seems to indicate that the bullying went much further than just mere bothering. The kid did everything to avoid the circumstances... now, I dont think that justifies 12 stabs and the death of a young boy, but this story in general doesnt shine with great decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambones Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 the only incident that was even referenced was the one where nuno was killed. we don't know how long saveedra has been bullied, it had to be pretty bad if he had to bring a knife with him. of course it's hard to justify murdering somebody but it sounds like it was self defense and the bullying had gone too far for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail. Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense. So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right? Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything. You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 the only incident that was even referenced was the one where nuno was killed. we don't know how long saveedra has been bullied, it had to be pretty bad if he had to bring a knife with him. of course it's hard to justify murdering somebody but it sounds like it was self defense and the bullying had gone too far for too long. Or he was a f*cking scumbag in the first place always carrying a knife. Or he got sick of the bullying and decided to bring a knife and stab him at the first opportunity because he was sick of it. NOTHING that comes close to bullying should count STABBING SOMEONE TWELVE TIMES as self defense. Especially not something as normal a fight. If I kill someone that hits me, I'll be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenline Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So, the next time Saveedra gets angry at someone he should stab them 12 times? Saveedra should've gone to jail. Obviously I was naive to think you couldn't make any less sense. So, when he has a job or something, and one of his co-workers bothers him, he'll just stab his co-worker 12 times, right? Because ganging up around someone, punching them, and attempting to start a fight completely unprovoked is considered "bothering them," right? Not, oh, I don't know, assault? But no, no, you're right. Tell you what, if we ever meet each other, I'll punch you a few times. I'll bring some friends, too, so they can crowd around us so you can't get away. And after I see that you're armed? I'll keep doing it. Because, I mean, all I'm doing is bothering you, right? I'm not attacking you or anything. You see this, right here, Shayan? This is why people do not take you seriously. Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer783 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You are being pushed, hit, bothered, and all that every damn day. Now you bring a knife but want to avoid confrontation but that damn person is doing it again and again and again. Stabbing him was self defense and doing it twelve times just pretty much means that he was very pissed off. If I saw a person that I really despise I would make him suffer. Anyone else who has the chance to get the person who made your life a living hell would jump to the chance of making that person suffer for the problems and damage they done to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenline Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You are being pushed, hit, bothered, and all that every damn day. Now you bring a knife but want to avoid confrontation but that damn person is doing it again and again and again. Stabbing him was self defense and doing it twelve times just pretty much means that he was very pissed off. If I saw a person that I really despise I would make him suffer. Anyone else who has the chance to get the person who made your life a living hell would jump to the chance of making that person suffer for the problems and damage they done to you. Yes, but suffering is a feeling. And you can only feel stuff when you're alive. I would torture them, let them bleed and make their faces look like sh*t. That is, if I were him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil weasel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) It's tough cause he was bully but then again these are 14 year olds... I get the feeling you've never been slapped around nearly everyday, had your books and papers shreded, shopwork sabatoged, lunch ruined, etc. When you complain, "Do you have proof?" Edited January 4, 2012 by lil weasel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yes, but I wouldn't stab you 12 times. Once or twice is enough (in a place that wouldn't kill you), making you back off and remember that you shouldn't f*ck with me (Sadeevra). ADRENALINE. Do you not have any f*cking idea how basic human responses to situations work? He was not actively thinking "I'm going to stab him twelve times," he was fighting to survive. It is the most basic function of the fight or flight response. I would torture them, let them bleed So quickly killing them is somehow worse than torturing them? Are you seriously trying to imply that? If I kill someone that hits me, I'll be in trouble. Not if you do it in Naples, Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaidRaida Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 "Don´t f*ck with me or I kill you!" I like a consequent way of handling the things. Could be easy to look at it like that but... ... finally no one is born as a "bully". The problem may be also the education of "bully-like" people. So this is a generall social issue. I´ve heard other opinions saying education doesn´t change a bit, it all comes from the genes. We are born and we can´t change. I doesn´t share this mind cause I can choose whether to be nice or not to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 12 is a little excessive, but to be honest the kid should get away with it. However, bullying is so damn traumatic that sometimes its just manifests into Posttraumatic stress disorder, depending on the level of bullying or how long it can continue for. What makes me more angry are the parents of this bully, where the f*ck were they? And the school in trying to stop this bullying in the first place, sh*t shouldn't be this bad in schools or the work place in this age. Yet people brush it off as nothing, which is seriously wrong. Dont get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a little making fun of and play ground insults to get yourself some thick skin. But when it gets to the point where people cannot go the day without fearing for their safety somethings wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil weasel Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It really isn't all that new. If you look at the movies from the 20 to 40s decades, the violence has always been there. It wasn't news worthy so rarely got reported. "boys will be boys", "a man has to defend his honor", "the bible says woman should obey her husband", "God is on our side", et cetera. Easy news, telephone video recorders, all makes the old actions/reactions to violence more noticeable, so "Nothing going on here, move on!" Almost forgot "People kill people, tools just make it easier": "if the kid wasn't intending to kill somebody why did he have an Ice pick, it's not something you generally carry all the time. Where's the Ice in Florida?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vercetti27 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 He did it in self defence. I expect his friends and family to be angry but if they were better parents in the first place the situation wouldn't have developed. I think it was the right ruling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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