[WIP] IV:SA³ 'World Enhancement'

[EncryptedReality]

Oh my Albert, love em'

 

Upload now!

[Alber2gt]

 

Alber2gt : You still use Beta 1 ?!

 

Oh my Albert, love em'

 

Upload now

- I steel use final beta-road shine -depend of shader what i steel use

-Ou thanks -I can do that with all cars.-is uploaded

 

[Garju67]

So this is Beta 2 with Beta 1 HUD ?

[Alber2gt]

 

I rather have more converted cars, we still not even reached 50% vehicle conversion.

First my goal convert cars,I can make HD car ,that we like more in this stage.

[Frank.s]

Good work Albert, keep it up.

[GooD-NTS]

 

We should start a petition for mod support on GTA V PC, in case they're already developing it. Probably wouldn't make a difference, but worth a shot.

That's not saying that an SDK which i wanted for years now wouldn't be great for V. I'd love it if Rockstar released V with it.

In any case, they will add something to the PC version, perhaps video editor again.

They will not release any SDK or something for GTA, because of two reasons:

First, they don't have tools with public quality. Rockstar not selling engine like Epic or ID and they can use only internal tools for all.

Second, they never done anything for modding before.

 

 

How does this system work? In simple words.

In real RAGE games like RDR or MC:LA map information stored in resources. It can be one big resource for all map or just for map sector.

Also it can keep one map sector in one resource file with all needed data like models, textures, animations etc.

For example, imagine resource file with constant all information from IDE, WPL and models and textures.

 

IV IDE and IPL are even the same as renderware, just some added stuff in them.

IDE and IPL is not RenderWare files. IDE, IPL, GXT it's GTA Engine files. You won't see any of this files in any other RenderWare game like Max Payne 1/2 or Burnout.

 

I wouldn't understand why they would change that that system.

Because the current system is terrible, it have many limits like 6000x6000 bounds and others.

 

GTA V will come out on 360 and ps3 first (pc probably later), if the xbox version has .XPL, we know the pc version will have .WPl right?

yes.

 

Well yes, but also because reverse engineering the dff format is A LOT easier then WDR, i'm sure nts can tell. I think all these formats will stay until the end of the 360\ps3 lifetime,

 

I bet formats change with the generation of consoles, as well as a RAGE 2.0

I don't know how hard or easy to research dff format, becuase I never do that.

And formats are changes, for example:

GTA IV (x360) have XTD (textures) files with version 7.

MC:LA (x360) have XTD (textures) files with version 9.

RDR (x360) have XTD (textures dictionary) and XTX(single texture) files with version 10.

This not simple "changed version number", the structures inside of files are really changed.

And you can't use GTAIV's XTD in RDR.

The same thing with all others resources. They changes because Rockstar change engine every time.

[SNAKE DOC]

Hotknife almost full HD.Screens:

Awesome! Well done.

[nkjellman]

 

GTA V uses the RAGE engine you can clearly see it in the trailer, the formats WILL be coded differently because they have been optimized (I suppose).

Remember why GTA IV took SO LONG to mod correctly (still not like SA), IT WAS BECAUSE THEY USED ANOTHER ENGINE AND DIFFERENT FORMATS

 

Surely GTA V will be a LITTLE bit easier to mod IF it ever comes to PC which I hope it will.

I know it will uses RAGE engine. But the file formats will be very differed.

I can say that because I saw resources of all other RAGE games. And in each next game formats changes.

And if they made a decision to use "RDR Like" map system (without any IPL, IDE, etc), GTA V will stay without map modding.

Think about this.

 

Renderware. It took people a while to crack GTA III's format. However VC and SA's format was identical, but still different in a way.

There are other games out there that use Renderware, and most likely have different file formats.

 

Rage. They could update IV's format. It would be a good choice for them. If you look at Midnight Club LA, Max Payne 3, or Red Dead Redemption, their totaly different types of game play, so they need to develop different types of files. Midnight Club LA has costomisable cars (with tweakable performance), so a different format from handling.dat would have to be used. Red Dead Redemption, doesnt even have cars, and the config for the horses (speed, stamana, ect) would have to be different. As for Midnight Club LA, that wouldnt need a weaponinfo.xml. Red Dead's weapon config, would have slots competly different from GTA's weapon slots. I don't know about Max Payne 3 thought because its not out yet. They need to change the configs for these games, so the gameplay is possable for these games. However, models would need to be cracked agein, because the format is supposed to support the new shaders. Each object would have alot of new properties they would have to have.

 

So the files are configured so they can make the game they want to make. GTA V is alot more like GTA IV, so its files should look like IV, however there WILL be diferences. New timecyc (or equivlent file) values, different weapon types, different handling for vehicles, ect.

 

Also think about this. What do the files for another game that uses Renderware look like that is not GTA. My guss is some of Rockstar's other games that released when III, VC, and SA were being released and Rockstar was still working with Renderware. I'm sure the files will look different from III, VC, and SA.

 

But I could be wrong. This is my guss.

[Alber2gt]

Blodring banger.Screens:

[Frank.s]

Quality new vehicle as per usual, good work.

There are a few missing textures though (making certain parts solid black and some solid white). Are those going to be fixed or have you moved on to another vehicle?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Frank.s

[nkjellman]

 

GTA V uses the RAGE engine you can clearly see it in the trailer, the formats WILL be coded differently because they have been optimized (I suppose).

Remember why GTA IV took SO LONG to mod correctly (still not like SA), IT WAS BECAUSE THEY USED ANOTHER ENGINE AND DIFFERENT FORMATS

 

Surely GTA V will be a LITTLE bit easier to mod IF it ever comes to PC which I hope it will.

I know it will uses RAGE engine. But the file formats will be very differed.

I can say that because I saw resources of all other RAGE games. And in each next game formats changes.

And if they made a decision to use "RDR Like" map system (without any IPL, IDE, etc), GTA V will stay without map modding.

Think about this.

 

Renderware. It took people a while to crack GTA III's format. However VC and SA's format was identical, but still different in a way.

There are other games out there that use Renderware, and most likely have different file formats.

 

Rage. They could update IV's format. It would be a good choice for them. If you look at Midnight Club LA, Max Payne 3, or Red Dead Redemption, their totaly different types of game play, so they need to develop different types of files. Midnight Club LA has costomisable cars (with tweakable performance), so a different format from handling.dat would have to be used. Red Dead Redemption, doesnt even have cars, and the config for the horses (speed, stamana, ect) would have to be different. As for Midnight Club LA, that wouldnt need a weaponinfo.xml. Red Dead's weapon config, would have slots competly different from GTA's weapon slots. I don't know about Max Payne 3 thought because its not out yet. They need to change the configs for these games, so the gameplay is possable for these games. However, models would need to be cracked agein, because the format is supposed to support the new shaders. Each object would have alot of new properties they would have to have.

 

So the files are configured so they can make the game they want to make. GTA V is alot more like GTA IV, so its files should look like IV, however there WILL be diferences. New timecyc (or equivlent file) values, different weapon types, different handling for vehicles, ect.

 

Also think about this. What do the files for another game that uses Renderware look like that is not GTA. My guss is some of Rockstar's other games that released when III, VC, and SA were being released and Rockstar was still working with Renderware. I'm sure the files will look different from III, VC, and SA.

 

But I could be wrong. This is my guss.

nk, all these files you are referring to, are gta engine files, ofcourse every race game has it's own version of 'handling.dat' and every shooter has it's own 'weaponinfo.xml.

So even RDR and MC:LA have their version of these files, which is unrelated to gta.

 

MP3 has a updated version of WDR.

Then GTAV has a updated version of the WDR format from MP3

And it goes on.

I agree with that. We know RPF is going to be different. RDR's ISO, I belive, has two giant RPF files, where as GTA IV has the game directory files in an RPF, minus the IMG files, which are in folders like on PC. For example, the files for Happyness Island on GTA IV for Xbox 360. The nj_liberty.xpl and nj_liberty.ide would be in Xbox360.rpf>data/maps/jersy, where as the nj_liberty.img would be in Xbox360/data/maps/jersy.

If RDR was ported to PC, the game most likely wouldnt be in two giant RPF's, but would be in folders. I wonder if its possable to have a PC game like a console game, where you pop it in, and play, no installing. I have put GTA SA on a flash drive before and I can play it on different PC's with out installing.

 

But I got alittle off track there. Pritty much what I ment was what you said. GTA Engine files, are designed to make GTA IV possable, where as RDR Engine files are designed to make RDR possable, and MCLA Engine files are designed to make MCLA, the way the makers planned to make the game. Its kinda like how GTA IV/EFLC files for Rage, III, VC, and SA files for Renderware, and LCS and VCS files for Gamebryo, have things in common, because their are portions of the code that they reuse. Ever wondered why GTA IV has some GTA SA files left over?

 

Edit: Rockstar will update RPF formats, and models so they can be smaller so they can fit more onto a disc. They also update models, so more shaders can be used to make them look even better.

[gtasadude]

They will decide which system is best for GTA V based on their budget and their time. If they didn't have the time to develop their engine since GTA IV then perhaps things would be different, but the fact is that they've had a superior system to the one used in GTA IV ever since the development of Red Dead Redemption. If this system allows them to make bigger games, improve system performance, improve workflow and speed up the process of development then they will use it in GTA V. It's as simple as that.

 

With that said, there's nothing physically stopping them from developing an SDK. Look at Skyrim, they're not using a commercial development engine, that didn't stop them from developing tools for the public. None of that matters. It's a question of whether or not there's a market for modding GTA V (yes), if they have the time, and whether or not it's cost effective to make. For all the time and money it would take to develop an SDK, it may not be worth it. All the previous games in the series have been modded without an SDK, so how does it benefit Rockstar to make one? The major downside of developing an SDK is always going to be cost/time, but there other concerns as well. GTA V has online multiplayer, so releasing an SDK could make the game less secure, potentially ruining all their hard work. On the other hand Valve released an SDK for their games a long time ago, and their games haven't had major problems with hackers.

 

It all boils down to this. If you want an SDK for GTA V, then you need to show Rockstar that there's demand for it, otherwise they wont even consider it. None of us know the exact sales figures for GTA on PC, even Rockstar don't know the exact sales figures for the game. Let's say 5 million people buy GTA V for PC. How many of those users would use an SDK? A few thousand? That's a lot of work if only 1% of their entire audience want to use it. How many users have installed mods for GTA in the past? I'm guessing about 15% of users installed mods for GTA IV, given the popularity of ENB/trainers/map mods. How about GTA San Andreas? That's different, it's very easy to mod SA nowadays, and downloading mods like Multi Theft Auto is essential to getting the best out of the experience. So lets say around 40%. Would more people install mods if a user friendly framework was included with the game? It's highly likely, just look at the success of Skyrim or Counter Strike Source and their integration with Steam. Would this increase the sales of GTA V on PC? Definitely; games live and die on their replay value, and the past has shown us that thousands of people still play GTA San Andreas thanks to mods like Multi Theft Auto. The fact is that more people play Multi Theft Auto than the majority of most multiplayer PC games combined, including GTA IV.

 

So far we've established that while it's very risky to develop an SDK for GTA V, it could be a risk that's very profitable for Rockstar to take. However, it ultimately depends on whether or not they want to invest the time and money to make it happen. If you want an SDK, make a petition and get people to sign it. Email websites such as IGN and Kotaku about it, let PC Gamer know about it, get all the major websites to promote it and spread the word. Ask all the major GTA modding websites to promote it, tell ModDB about it. You could even ask Multi Theft Auto to promote it in their modification. These are the things you have to do if you want Rockstar to seriously consider the demand for an SDK. If you managed to get 100,000 signatures asking Rockstar to include mod support for GTA V, then they would definitely take notice. They might not discuss it publicly, you might not know they're making one until it's released, but you can bet your ass that they would notice. The gaming industry is ultimately a business, and Rockstar are right at the top of the ladder. They're smart enough to decide whether or not it's profitable to make an SDK, and who knows, it might just work.

 

I guess I should make a short version of this post. Make a petition, get people to sign it, hope Rockstar take notice, done.

Edited February 25, 2012 by gtasadude

[nkjellman]

When you think about it, Rockstar does officaly support GTA modding to an extent. Notice how the console version of GTA IV had most of the files in RPFs, and PC doesnt have very many of the files in RPFs. Also when you open up some of the files, for example, the cargrp.dat, handling.dat, vehicles.ide, timecyc.dat, visualsettings.dat, ect, there is text in the top that explains what each value does. Rockstar put the files in folders on the PC, rather than leaving them in RPF's, so people could open them up from day one, and wouldnt have to wait for someone to crack the RPF. The console had them in RPF's to save space, but on PC, they left them out in folders, and they even included their test map files in the game, which they took out of the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions.

[gtasadude]

That's nothing to do with modding, that simply makes it easier for developers to modify the game. And although I know nothing about RPF files, I assume using RPF's makes it easier to compress the files to disc. The only thing that has anything to do with is the right method of delivery for different platforms. It's not right to compress everything into RPF's when you're installing to PC, there's no tangible benefit.

Edited February 25, 2012 by gtasadude

[nkjellman]

 

That's nothing to do with modding, that simply makes it easier for developers to modify the game. And although I know nothing about RPF files, I assume using RPF's makes it easier to compress the files to disc. The only thing that has anything to do with is the right method of delivery for different platforms. It's not right to compress everything into RPF's when you're installing to PC, there's no tangible benefit.

Thats what I said. Rockstar doesnt need the files to be in RPF's on PC, so they thought they would put them in folders, so you can mod them. If that text was there for development only, then why would they leave it there in the public files? Also if you think about it, EFLC originaly had the files encrypted on the PC, but they became decrypted in a patch.

 

But we should get off the topic of Rage overall, and back onto IV SA.

[gtasadude]

Yeah I can't imagine that Rockstar develop their games specifically so people can look at the files and immediately understand how to f*ck up all their hard work . It takes time to remove all that text nkjellman, time they could spend doing more important things like developing the game. And also, removing the text immediately makes it more difficult to patch if they need a developer who's inexperienced with the game to fix a problem.

Edited February 25, 2012 by gtasadude

[EverLost123]

These arguments are so obvious.

 

You can learn it from from III>VC>SA . They all use almost the same type of files, but there is always a different thing that changes almost everything.

 

Even IV uses some type of old files. Same Developers + no need of update = Same files

 

There are many... timecyc , handling , .img , etc....

Edited February 25, 2012 by EverLost123

[GtADuuuDe]

does some of pics on first page have new timecyc allready?

specially fourth pic looks awesome

[D T]

Tonight we have a cool announcement to make, stay tuned.

 

Tonight = tomorrow

When are you going to make the cool announcement?

[nkjellman]

 

Tonight we have a cool announcement to make, stay tuned.

 

Tonight = tomorrow

When are you going to make the cool announcement?

A bunch of files got uploaded to the DB a minute ago, and RAGE Modding Studio is in the topic, so probaly now.

 

Edit: And there you have it.

Edited February 25, 2012 by nkjellman

[RAGE Modding Studio]

In beta 3 we introduce a new feature, players can choose for the true old SA feel or a more realistic feel.

 

 

SA feel:

- Remade timecyc close to the original

- Original vegetation

- Original SA HUD

 

 

Realistic feel:

- Visual IV

- Updated timecyc

- HQ trees ('Project Oblivion')

- Updated IV HUD with SA colors and icons

 

 

 

 

 

Realistic feel:

 

 

 

 

 

SA feel:

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2012 by RAGE Modding Studio

[nkjellman]

 

Tonight we have a cool announcement to make, stay tuned.

 

Tonight = tomorrow

When are you going to make the cool announcement?

A bunch of files got uploaded to the DB a minute ago, and RAGE Modding Studio is in the topic, so probaly now.

 

Edit: And there you have it.

This was already 2 days on db, now we uploaded something which we will make a video about.

Ok, lol. Thought what you were uploading was what you were announcing.

 

Anyways, I have a question/idea about the EFLC version.

I could make it one EFLC version.

One episode will have the realistic feel, and the other episode will have the SA feel. Want to do that for the EFLC version or no? We would need to code the hud to work with the one Episode that has the SA feel, have it configurable in an ini file.

Something like this.

 

#1=enabled, 0=desabledSA hud in GTA IV (1 or 0)SA hud in TLAD    (1 or 0)SA hud in TBOGT (1 or 0)

 

That way people can also choose if they wan't the SA hud even if they choose the realistic version, or if they want IV hud but choose the SA version.

Edited February 25, 2012 by nkjellman

[nkjellman]

 

Tonight we have a cool announcement to make, stay tuned.

 

Tonight = tomorrow

When are you going to make the cool announcement?

A bunch of files got uploaded to the DB a minute ago, and RAGE Modding Studio is in the topic, so probaly now.

 

Edit: And there you have it.

This was already 2 days on db, now we uploaded something which we will make a video about.

Ok, lol. Thought what you were uploading was what you were announcing.

 

Anyways, I have a question/idea about the EFLC version.

I could make it one EFLC version.

One episode will have the realistic feel, and the other episode will have the SA feel. Want to do that for the EFLC version or no?

Good idea, but one problem,

 

The hud is independent from the game files.

Maybe if i ask flits to build something in that blocks support fot TBoGT, the script will not load on tbogt and will on tlad.

 

TLAD would be SA feel.

TBoGT realistic feel.

 

Then for the IV version, you simply have a option in the setup, as well as two 1.5MB rar packages to switch between the two.

Read my updated above post. Something like that would be better, and much more user freindly.

 

Edit: I may switch the running anims to the original GTA IV ones for each one, because IV's looks better and the TLAD running anim looks like hes doing a chicken dance. Ill also try and see if I can get them to run off the script.img for the IV version, so you don't have to use the save files.

Edited February 25, 2012 by nkjellman

[Garju67]

The "Realistic feel" is great

Nice job

[nkjellman]

 

Tonight we have a cool announcement to make, stay tuned.

 

Tonight = tomorrow

When are you going to make the cool announcement?

A bunch of files got uploaded to the DB a minute ago, and RAGE Modding Studio is in the topic, so probaly now.

 

Edit: And there you have it.

This was already 2 days on db, now we uploaded something which we will make a video about.

Ok, lol. Thought what you were uploading was what you were announcing.

 

Anyways, I have a question/idea about the EFLC version.

I could make it one EFLC version.

One episode will have the realistic feel, and the other episode will have the SA feel. Want to do that for the EFLC version or no?

Good idea, but one problem,

 

The hud is independent from the game files.

Maybe if i ask flits to build something in that blocks support fot TBoGT, the script will not load on tbogt and will on tlad.

 

TLAD would be SA feel.

TBoGT realistic feel.

 

Then for the IV version, you simply have a option in the setup, as well as two 1.5MB rar packages to switch between the two.

Read my updated above post. Something like that would be better, and much more user freindly.

 

Edit: I may switch the running anims to the original GTA IV ones for each one, because IV's looks better and the TLAD running anim looks like hes doing a chicken dance.

Not needed, there are simply tricks to switch between the different huds and trees, no need for ini files.

Ok. Maybe you include the hud script files that don't desable SA hud on TBOGT in a rar archive. I bet alot of people would like to use the SA hud with the realistic feel. Also, we have two vehicles that replace in the TBOGT vehicles.img. We should make them added vehicles, so they work on TLAD and the IV version. Atleast we should replace the Buzzard with the Hunter, and the APC with the Rhino, so TBOGT users atleast can enjoy those things. However I may be able to get those things to work on TLAD as they do on TBOGT, easier than IV.

 

Edit: Quick question, do you crash when flying with the new map files (ones that were on the DB yesterday)?

Edited February 25, 2012 by nkjellman

[SlimFatso]

I LOVE the "Realistic" feeling

[Garju67]

Srt will be compatible with beta 3 ?

IF yes it would be the smae method than the one of beta 1 ?

[SNAKE DOC]

The "Realistic feel" is great

Nice job

What he said!

[nkjellman]

I LOVE the "Realistic" feeling

Ye I know, name sux

 

Someone come with a better name, for both.

Maybe better names would be Original SA Feeling or Classic SA feeling, and Updated SA Feeling, or Enhanced SA Feeling.

[Garju67]

Srt will be compatible with beta 3 ?

IF yes it would be the smae method than the one of beta 1 ?

I hope it will work if we keep bump\spec from sa textures, if not, i need blitz permission to release a srt ivsa package, It won't work else.

Ask him .