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Analysis of GTA V's graphics


Miss Darko

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Yeah but compare console IV's graphics to the PC version. V's graphics will be an improvment yes but they may have made that trailer on a good computer. Read dead had good graphics but there wasn't much going on so it's not that demanding.

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To enhance fast graphic rendering, they tend to decrease the number of peds on the street which isn't nice IMO. I hope they don't decrease the peds count this time.

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Hereby I present you gentleman, how GTA IV looks nice.

 

 

too bad he cant fix fugly rigidy peds that make it look so silly. oh and not to mention no IV mod could even improve on the terrible foliage sad.gif

 

2.0 isnt much better either from the alpha screens. just wait til people start modding V to the point that only SLI rigs can run it

 

 

Have you seen the trailer? There's quite a bit more in Los Santos than a few turbines. What I posted was simply my opinion on quality over quantity. Maybe get your head out of your ass and read the entire thing, instead of knee-jerking to the first sentence.

i read the whole thing, but what is the point of "detail" in IV that you have what, more strip clubs, internet cafes, bowling alleys in IV? boooring.... and unless im mistaken there's no interior to the airport even. god damn that f*cking sucked. glad i quit IV right after the subpar dramatic storyline

Edited by ldee
G1T
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Great topic and way more interesting than the usual "hey do u lyk kids in gta5"but....people always compare the GTA5 trailer to the GTA4 game but really they should compare it to the GTA4 trailer for better comparison.

 

icon14.gif

 

I really hope we can climb over those mountains though. I've got a horrible feeling they're just walls.

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Someone found in the trailer analysis topic that there was a platform or something like that on the mountain. So I think we will get there on a sanchez. biggrin.gif

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Johnny Playert
For the people saying about most of the shots being cut-scenes - it doesn't matter. In the past, all GTA trailers and cutscenes are rendered in real time in-game. So if something looks great in a cutscene, that is what it looks like when playing. Because it uses the in-game world and graphics to create it, only thing different is the actions which are scripted. So the animations may not be as great as seen in the trailer, but of course they will have improved considerably though. However, for example the two females turning to look at the males when jogging is most likely scripted. As well as the three people on the mountain, because obviously a normal ped wouldn't just be on a mountain holding hands and turning to look at the camera. So it's most likely scripted.

 

I'm sure alot of cutscenes were used, because that's how you show off all of the action. Just moving a camera around the city watching the peds do their thing wouldn't be as impressive. But just because the stuff is taken from cutscenes doesn't mean the game world won't have that kind of detail when playing, cause like I said, it's all in-game.

Agreed. Actually I just went on youtube and re-watched the 1st trailer to GTA IV for comparison, and - though pretty much everything in that trailer are cut-scenes too - they for the most part look the same as the gameplay itself in that game graphics-wise, just more zoomed in.

 

Agreed that some of the animations in the trailer are probably just for the trailer (girls checking out guy, guy hammering in real estate sign, etc), but in terms of graphics, that's pretty much what its going to look like. Which of course, is awesome.

Of course it is going to have the same graphics, thinking anything other then that would be stupid.

But you guys are totally missing the point. When they show certain shots in a trailer it gives the impression that everything you see, should be a part of actual gameplay. For example, the woman responding to the revving red convertible, it all looks nicely detailed, the way she acts, but this suggests that NPC-interaction like this would be seen amongst all peds, just like the male/female joggers in the way they interact with each other, you get the impression that things like this would be integrated in actual gameplay. People get impressed with the possibilities this could mean, when, in fact, you can be 90% sure that that stuff showcased is in fact cutscene material, not gameplay animations. Do you see my point?? Because things like that always rather bugged me with GTA trailers, when i found out that cool part of the trailer turned out to be 'just' a cutscene.

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Of course it is going to have the same graphics, thinking anything other then that would be stupid.

But you guys are totally missing the point. When they show certain shots in a trailer it gives the impression that everything you see, should be a part of actual gameplay. For example, the woman responding to the revving red convertible, it all looks nicely detailed, the way she acts, but this suggests that NPC-interaction like this would be seen amongst all peds, just like the male/female joggers in the way they interact with each other, you get the impression that things like this would be integrated in actual gameplay. People get impressed with the possibilities this could mean, when, in fact, you can be 90% sure that that stuff showcased is in fact cutscene material, not gameplay animations. Do you see my point?? Because things like that always rather bugged me with GTA trailers, when i found out that cool part of the trailer turned out to be 'just' a cutscene.

I see what you're saying, but I don't know why you would be dissapointed if you knew that it most likely wasn't in the gameplay. It's just what gaming companies do, they have to make their product look good and stand out from the other games. And if that means they have to slip a couple of pre animated scenes in there then that's what they have to do.

 

We know the game is going to be a huge improvement. R* stated themselves that this is the "biggest and most ambitious" game they have ever made. Maybe the people reacting to your horn is in the game? Peds would react in previous games but it was normally just a curse or the finger, maybe they've expanded on it. In San Andreas you could attract prostitutes to your car by honking. So it's not impossible at all for some of these things to be included. It may look too good for the game but the thing is we don't know what's going to be in it. Only time will tell. But the trailer is still 100% in-game footage with some cutscenes, but no CGI rendering or other fancy sh*t. And if the graphics are going to change in the final game, they will get better. Just like GTA IV.

 

And I stated that it's going to have the same graphics because not many game trailers do. For example Battlefied and COD trailers used actors and film editing to enhance their trailers, very little of it was gameplay. And it's becoming more common these days, but R* keep it real!

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Johnny Playert

^^^

 

There is no doubt it will be a huge improvement, no doubt, R* always delivers smile.gif

And as far as enhancing graphics for trailers, i wouldn't worry about it with GTA, R* isn't likely to do such a thing smile.gif

 

It's just f'd up when they show certain stuff that really doesn't play a role in the game or get's cut even. Like when i saw the convertible contracting it's roof, i got insta-excited about it, what if you could modify certain sportscars to be convertibles, and then even putting the top up or down, by YOUR choice! Mannn that'd be awesome! Look, that's the sorta stuff i'm talking about, because i already tempered that excitement not to be disappointed, knowing it was most probably just a cutscene and you'll only get to see it once or twice in the entire game. Which is disapointing.

Edited by Johnny Playert
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if the graphics in game are anywhere near what i have seen from the trailer then im 100% pleased already.

I just cant wait for some fresh info or another trailer from R*

 

i cant see R* releasing that trailer and it not being on par with the graphics of the game because they know fans will disect every second of it.

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Ive said this before but alot of the scenes seem pre rendered. I have a hard time believing that these are the graphics we will see when the controller is in our hands but i look forward to being proven wrong.

 

As far as the draw distance goes we really cant tell at this point. The first trailer for IV had much better draw distance than in-game. I think they changed it to make for a smoother experience. So hopefully when we pick up V it looks like this, not a less polished version like what happened with IV.

ShnePmW.jpg?5
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Your key flaw is the assumption that they'll have done all that trailer on a 360 or a PS3, they won't, they'll have done it on an absolute f*cking monster of a comupter to make look as good as possible.  The reason it has a rendered CG look isn't a fancy new graphical innovation, it's the fact that it is rendered CG.

I think its a fair assumption, and it makes sense since GTA is now developed primarily for consoles usually with the PC verison being ported as an afterthought. The first trailer for IV was done on the Xbox 360 running real-time as confirmed by Rockstar themselves in an interview.

 

I don't see why they would run it real time on a PC unless the PC version was being developed alongside the PS3 and Xbox360 versions. If that were true then that means that we could be seeing a simultaneous PC release because they normally wouldn't work on that until after V was released.

 

Plus it would be giving a false representation of the capabilities of the consoles to run a PC trailer because its a console game. And I'm sure Rockstar know that fans would pick the trailer apart to death.

 

The trailer looks so good graphically simply because they learnt new things since the release of IV like optimizing the RAGE engine and updating the software. Remember IV was 4 years ago and they were working on a new openworld next-gen game. They didnt know everything and RAGE was still new software to Rockstar North. But now many years later and 2 AAA titles later, RDR and LAN, think how much they must have learned development wise so of course V is going to look epic graphically and it should.

 

 

Its interesting to note however they didn't specify which platforms it was being released on so maybe it was a PC trailer because they plan on a simultaneous release. monocle.gif

Edited by johnny_zoo
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Really nice comparison.

I too noticed the better shadows and that the sun is actually 'shining' (dunno how to put this).

It creates warm colors.

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For the last f*cking time L.A. Noire does NOT use RAGE

Nope. But it does look like the global illumination technology they licensed for that game has been used in the trailer. Whether or not it'll be in the final game, who knows? L.A. Noire pulled it off, but then, the lighting wasn't dynamic in that game.

 

I do acknowledge that the graphics seen in the trailer will probably differ from those in the final game, because I think these are the 'max' graphics of the game, before balancing quality with performance for consoles and most computers. It doesn't necessarily insure a simultaneous release for consoles and PC either, because they may have done this to avoid things like pop-in and such.

 

However, I think a lot of the most important improvements will be in there, like the shadows, textures, and lighting. The draw distance doesn't seem too crazy either, because RDR's draw distance was also large enough for you to see the mountains in the distance. I think that will remain basically the same.

 

Some of the things that will probably not be in the final game are the extreme LOD and the animations employed by the pedestrians throughout the trailer. There will be improvements in both areas, but I think the level they're at is specifically for the trailer (and some are probably for cutscenes as well). The global illumination/radiosity is also up for debate, because while L.A. Noire pulled it off, it didn't have dynamic lighting like GTA or RDR. Personally, I feel they'll make it work, but again, it's up for debate.

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I managed to follow you most of the way. It's nice to have a knowledgeable new member put some real effort into a topic.

 

To be honest, I'll be happy if the graphics are on a par with RDR. The views & vistas in that game were beautiful even though they seem have employed a blurring effect to achieve them.

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I hope GTA V looks and runs better than RDR. The PS3 version always slows down when in a town like Armadillo.

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Feed Me A Lolcat
In Trailer 2 the graphics will be Improvement just like GTA4 trailer 2 graphics better than than trailer 1

I think they were wrose than in the first trailer.

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Very good topic. I can see that you're knowledgeable when it comes to graphics, so it's good to hear the views of someone who knows their stuff.

 

Anyway, while I was already aware of the major differences in graphics between GTA V and GTA IV, I was not aware of the differences I've just seen between GTA V and RDR. When I compared the graphics of the two screenshots that you showed us, I must admit that I was pleasantly surprised.

 

I was a big fan of the graphics in RDR. I thought they were largely improved on graphics of previous Rockstar games and that it would be hard to beat them, however V's graphics have completely blown them out of the water.

 

Anyway, as I said, good work in this thread.

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Without starting any flame war, I had Graphics like these in my GTA IV with my PC, so and again I repeat don't wanna start any flame war but looking back to GTA in PS3 and XBOX and knowing that back than those consoles capabilities where pushed to the limit, I don't think this is Consoles footage.

 

If they could use detailed back then in those 2 consoles why would they used all those blured graphics that could be easily changed to detail back in the PC version? Same goes with trees nothing different from what I saw in my game.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I think now and by all your analysis that tis footage was taken from a PC version, if in fact consoles look like this then I have to take my hat off to R* because it was an amazing improvement for the same hardware.

Edited by S1LV3R_W0LF
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According to PC GAMER magazine in reviews of GTA3 and Vice City, the PC was the preferred and ultimate platform, but I've been using console all along, and since I also have more then a few computers, I got the PC versions. There were nuances but by and large, not a major disappointment between PC and console gameplay, I saw added elements graphically, and with Shader and Lighting, and Texture improvements, it's bound to look more like Hi Definition as it should be. Red Dead Red looked like HD gaming and it was!

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Vegetarian Piranha

where have you been the last month lol..

 

one thing i hated about IV was the dullness of it, there are more colours in one screen cap of V then in the entire game of IV.

 

lets just hope they dont go all viva pinata on us tounge.gif

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Would love for someone to put up some more comparison screen shots, I bloody love 'em.

I'll go one better. I saw this on the board a few days back

 

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Without starting any flame war, I had Graphics like these in my GTA IV with my PC, so and again I repeat don't wanna start any flame war but looking back to GTA in PS3 and XBOX and knowing that back than those consoles capabilities where pushed to the limit, I don't think this is Consoles footage.

 

If they could use detailed back then in those 2 consoles why would they used all those blured graphics that could be easily changed to detail back in the PC version? Same goes with trees nothing different from what I saw in my game.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I think now and by all your analysis that tis footage was taken from a PC version, if in fact consoles look like this then I have to take my hat off to R* because it was an amazing improvement for the same hardware.

I also have graphics similar to those in the trailer in GTA4 on my PC, and I am not running any mods or graphics enhancers. I can see a some improvements to the graphics especially with lighting and peds.

 

However I would not go all out and say that the graphics seen in the trailer is beyond the capabilities of Xbox 360 or PS3.

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Good thread but I have to clarify a few things here, anyone interested in reading this post will gain some extra understanding on how games are made and why some of the things they previously thought were correct, are actually wrong.

 

Firstly, I'll begin with the cutscenes vs real gameplay visuals vs CG debate

 

R* games have a track record of using the in-game graphics engine to create cutscenes, you only need to compare the trailers of past games such as GTA SA, GTA IV, RDR to see that the actual game looks exactly the same if not better upon release. In addition R* don't make use of CG renders when creating trailers, they always make use of their in-game graphics engine.

To the people saying the GTA V trailer is a CG render, you obviously haven't seen what average looking CG looks like, lol.gif Even, average CGI renders look better and more advanced than the GTA V trailer, not to mention great looking advanced CG. The mere thought that the GTA V trailer is CG render is utterly impossible. It looks FAR too bad to be CG essentially.

 

You can forget about the use of CG within the GTA V trailer, and even if most of the footage is cutscenes, just remember R* use their in-game engine to depict cutscenes. What that trailer looks like IS what GTA V looks like.

 

Secondly, the topic of PC graphics or console footage?

 

What people need to understand is companies want to showcase their game in the best light as possible, it is very likely that R* rendered that trailer on a PC, and therefore the visuals seen in the trailer will NOT be exactly the same on consoles. You don't have to be creating a PC version of a video game, to render trailers on a PC - Video games are MADE on high end PC's in the first place, console devkits are merely used when testing in order to make sure the game will run properly on consoles, devkits are for developers to know and understand the desired specs of the machine they are developing for, as well as how the machines architecture is set up. That said, all console games including console exclusivies are made on PCs, played on PCs and then finally tested on devkits.

 

Key point: You don't need a PC version to render stuff with PC graphical settings - It's done anyway. This is why the trailer might have been rendered on PC quality settings, even if the PC version comes out a year later.

 

Global illumination

 

What OP talked about in his very well written and detailed post (I enjoyed reading it) is not exactly correct. Global illumination is actually a blanket collection of lighting technologies that are used to make games look more realistic and detailed. Things such as ray-tracing, photon mapping and radiosity are methods of global illumination. What OP is referring to with the color bleeding and blending with the environment is actually radiosiity rendering. There are a few key points to understand with this, hopefully my explanation can be understood.

 

Radiosity is a relatively easy to implement lighting scheme, but it is expensive on the GPU and CPU of any computer system. 1, 2 or 3 lighting passes (passes are how many times the scene is rendered) is NOT enough to create a good looking effect, the first iteration or light pass will tell the developer how the scene will look after one light bounce, i.e. after light has flooded into the scene and bounced around the environment, this isn't enough. Multiple light passes are required until the scene looks any good. We're talking up to 16 light passes before it looks smooth and realistic. This is intensive on the processor and graphics card, because the scene has to be rendered multiple times in such quick succession.

 

Why is all that important?

 

Well real-time radiosity rendering is still in its infancy, most games don't make use of real time radiosity rendering because of how tasking it is, If I remember correctly BF3 uses some sort of quasi-radiosity in real time, but then BF3 is a graphical behemoth, and almost an indication of what will be possible on the next gen. GTA V to feature real time radiosity? IMPOSSIBLE. in a world as big and open as that, it will be impossible on current hardware. However what is most likely happening is the lighting passes has been baked into the frame, and as each frame is rendered it appears as if radiosity exists in real time, essentially the scene is 'faked' so to speak. meaning if you moved the position of a light source, nothing would change in the scene...Mirrors edge is one game that used baked radiosity. hmmmmmmmm, possible.

 

user posted image

~Baked radiosity

 

Hope this enlightened a few, anything you need explained further just ask. smile.gif

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For the purpose of advertising I see it highly possible R* went PC this time, but I hope I'm wrong. But to get the shock and awe graphical effect like BF3 did, all PC from what I've heard. confused.gif

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Johnny Playert
For the purpose of advertising I see it highly possible R* went PC this time, but I hope I'm wrong. But to get the shock and awe graphical effect like BF3 did, all PC from what I've heard. confused.gif

You must read PoloFleece's post, that guy knows what he's talking about. Great post! The fact that videogames are made on high-end PC's in the first place strongly suggest that trailers are indeed made while running on these pc's. Thinking anything other than that is wrong.

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