Mapping Los Santos! Building/landmark analysis

[omer19992010]

Does Anybody know how big Red Dead's map is? Some people are saying it's 5.5 Sq miles other are saying 7 and others are saying 12 Sq miles. There are way too many different answers.

[Miss Darko]

 

Does Anybody know how big Red Dead's map is? Some people are saying it's 5.5 Sq miles other are saying 7 and others are saying 12 Sq miles. There are way too many different answers.

One reason for the discrepancy is the difference between the playable area of RDR and the entire map of RDR. The entire map of RDR is quite large, but the playable area (within the canyon borders) is, from my understanding, a little over half of that, and around the size of the playable area of GTA IV (although it feels much larger due to the lack of modern cars). If you look at the map, you see a lot of area that isn't accessible, which luckily isn't a problem in most GTA games as they are not land-locked.

[zombie elvis]

 

Not sure about buildings, here i marked the tunnel:

You know what those 3 white lines going out South West are? There is a drain going out to the beach north of the pier so I thought that might be one of them.

[RockStarNiko]

For what reason would RockStar have photoshopped the blueprint?

 

I don't see why they would bother doing that, seems like a lot of unnecessary effort.

[zombie elvis]

 

For what reason would RockStar have photoshopped the blueprint?

 

I don't see why they would bother doing that, seems like a lot of unnecessary effort.

Because the unshopped roll would show the north of the map. The city seal will genuinely be near the top left corner of the map, while the real map has a compass pointing north in its place. And honestly, there wasn't much effort, they just took a slice of the south and pasted it on top. No perspective, no cylindrical distortion, nothing.

 

 

Not sure if I've made a new discovery here but here you can see the unshopped map would be showing the 'B' row, while the area we've seen is mostly the F,G and H rows.

It looks like it will be made of 9 rows named A though to I, and 7 columns wide.

 

Edited June 2, 2013 by zombie elvis

[LAPD 85]

 

For what reason would RockStar have photoshopped the blueprint?

 

I don't see why they would bother doing that, seems like a lot of unnecessary effort.

Because the unshopped roll would show the north of the map. The city seal will genuinely be near the top left corner of the map, while the real map has a compass pointing north in its place. And honestly, there wasn't much effort, they just took a slice of the south and pasted it on top. No perspective, no cylindrical distortion, nothing.

 

 

Not sure if I've made a new discovery here but here you can see the unshopped map would be showing the 'B' row, while the area we've seen is mostly the F,G and H rows.

It looks like it will be made of 9 rows named A though to I, and 7 columns wide.

 

It doesn't matter, it's not going to be to scale. It's just a simple blueprint template. Jesus Christ. Some of you people are so autistic.

[zombie elvis]

It doesn't matter, it's not going to be to scale. It's just a simple blueprint template. Jesus Christ. Some of you people are so autistic.

I didn't say anything about scale..

 

I'm just saying it'll look like this.

 

[Dick Justice]

There's a damn lot of water on the blueprint map though. It seems the map will be much taller than it is wide.

[omawnakw]

 

Not sure about buildings, here i marked the tunnel:

You know what those 3 white lines going out South West are? There is a drain going out to the beach north of the pier so I thought that might be one of them.

Agree, or it could be one of the Sewer Outfalls, looks like a combination of Lower North Outfall and ocean outfalls. Ocean part looks like 5-mile one but not so long in the game. IRL Hyperion Plant is located to the south of Santa Monica, here is what i found:

http://www.sewerhistory.org/grfx/trtmnt/trtmnt1.htm

 

UPD: Also, looking on that screenshot, i want to admit that the wide road on the map incorporates two roads with the part of the hill between them. I think the same thing happens with the road between Vernon Water Tower and Covington Engineering Services, it is not so wide really, there a number of roads on the hill.

Edited June 2, 2013 by omawnakw

[Six Paths of Pain]

There's a damn lot of water on the blueprint map though. It seems the map will be much taller than it is wide.

It's already been agreed upon that the blueprint image is CGI, as the LS map portion doesn't curve with the paper blueprint

 

We have ZERO idea where LS is positioned on the map (other than the general statement of it being near the bottom) and have zero idea how big it will be in retrospect to the entire map

 

 

[zombie elvis]

 

There's a damn lot of water on the blueprint map though. It seems the map will be much taller than it is wide.

There is. But the map was said to be 30% water (1.5 x RDR for ocean vs 3.5 for land) The poster is 21.5 x 27.75 inches, which is room for 7x9 3 inch squares with ~1/4inch spare at the edges.

Edited June 2, 2013 by zombie elvis

[RockStarNiko]

 

There's a damn lot of water on the blueprint map though. It seems the map will be much taller than it is wide.

There is. But the map was said to be 30% water (1.5 x RDR for ocean vs 3.5 for land) The poster is 21.5 x 27.75 inches, which is room for 7x9 3 inch squares with ~1/4inch spare at the edges.

It is 26.75 not 27.75.

 

Also I just been looking at the two segments of blueprint map again and realized they are not perfect squares

 

In both segments the width is 5 pixels more than the length.

 

Top right segment is 138 x 133 and the segment with compass is 105 x 100

 

So, I am confused now.

 

Why would the two segments have grid "squares" that are different sizes, but show the same 5 pixel difference?

Edited June 2, 2013 by RockStarNiko

[zombie elvis]

 

It is 26.75 not 27.75.

 

Also I just been looking at the two segments of blueprint map again and realized they are not perfect squares

 

In both segments the width is 5 pixels more than the length.

 

Top right segment is 133 x 138 and the segment with compass is 100 x 105

 

So, I am confused now.

 

Why would the two segments have grid "squares" that are different sizes, but show the same 5 pixel difference?

Yep my mistake, that'll teach me for trying to read the numbers from the picture I'd flipped upside down.

 

I don't know why their different, maybe to fit in a standard poster size or an error on the website. I'd actually rescaled mine to be squares but it could be slightly squashed on the real map too.

 

Edit: misread sorry, there's only 1 percent out in the two things you measured, it sounds close enough to the same. They might have just not quite scaled them evenly when they put the promotion together if there is a difference.

Edited June 2, 2013 by zombie elvis

[RockStarNiko]

What is interesting is if you remove 0.5 inches from both sides you get 21 x 26.25 and so the length/height of the blueprint would be EXACTLY 25% more.

 

Is there a reason for this or is it just coincidence?

 

Knowing that they are not squares has made me doubt there is a scale, but with the blueprint being exactly 25% larger makes me think there still might be.

 

Maybe that 5% difference is important somehow?

 

 

edit - I just thought of something

 

When they took the picture maybe the map was not completely flat and this could explain why the length/height of the grid squares "appear" shorter slightly?

 

Maybe they ARE perfect squares

 

If the map was not completely flat, it would be the length/height measurement that would appear shorter

Edited June 2, 2013 by RockStarNiko

[LAPD 85]

There's a damn lot of water on the blueprint map though. It seems the map will be much taller than it is wide.

There is. But the map was said to be 30% water (1.5 x RDR for ocean vs 3.5 for land) The poster is 21.5 x 27.75 inches, which is room for 7x9 3 inch squares with ~1/4inch spare at the edges.

It is 26.75 not 27.75.

 

Also I just been looking at the two segments of blueprint map again and realized they are not perfect squares

 

In both segments the width is 5 pixels more than the length.

 

Top right segment is 138 x 133 and the segment with compass is 105 x 100

 

So, I am confused now.

 

Why would the two segments have grid "squares" that are different sizes, but show the same 5 pixel difference?

Because it's a Photoshop and not a real blueprint. The autism sure is strong in here right now.

[lxr]

 

Not sure if I've made a new discovery here but here you can see the unshopped map would be showing the 'B' row, while the area we've seen is mostly the F,G and H rows.

  It looks like it will be made of 9 rows named A though to I, and 7 columns wide.

 

 

 

I'm just saying it'll look like this.

 

 

This is some excellent analysis!

 

I'm still trying to make sense of the 7-by-9-ness of the squares, vs. the 21.5-by-26.75-ness of the map, vs. all the rest we know about the map size.

 

(Of course, there's still Fido's theory that this side of the poster only shows part of the map, and the full thing is on the flip side... but to me, the side we're seeing shows too much to just be a detail.)

[or1]

My suggestion to map

With the ratio of length and width (Mentioned in the pre-order picture on R* site - 21.5" x 26.75")

 

All data including the area of the southern part were calculated precisely

 

You can see in the screensaver of the lighthouse

The sun rises in front of him - I mean it is located on the east side

the original size -1788x966- http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/132140...mg/13214023.png

smaller size(for quote) -903x488- http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/132140...mg/13214006.png

(The text appears only on a dark background)

Edited June 2, 2013 by GTA564

[drahc88]

R* needs to find balance of the map..water,land and city. it was quite unbalanced in GTA 4, well its true that new york is all city. but its quite boring with 20% of water. the island off california should be 10% left of the center while the other 40% is water to the west. then the landmass 50% NE to the right.

65%landmass 35%water. and it should be several islands not just one!

so there wont be a confined feel.

i dont know what the actual scale ratio is, but i think this should how it look like

perhaps they could add stormy seas effect. maybe even shark infested?or some whales? take your yacht. boat filled why not? put some human activity there. snorkeling diving,deep sea subs/rovers. it looks perfect. drag race with speed boats! there's so much to do!

[LotusRIP]

Keep the extra north space but you need to cut off the area east of LS

yeh I think your right it is a little too much really

 

I've cut off the southeast part now and moved the desert part more east north

 

 

 

But... where's your lighthouse?

 

From the screens, we can see the lighthouse is not far from Alamo Sea... and the other side of the lighthouse we see in Epsilon screensaver, is nothing but OCEAN.... which means the edge of the map in that area north/west of Alamo Sea opens out to the ocean.... your map is wrong but I do expect more land up north somewhere

[zombie elvis]

 

This is some excellent analysis!

 

I'm still trying to make sense of the 7-by-9-ness of the squares, vs. the 21.5-by-26.75-ness of the map, vs. all the rest we know about the map size.

 

(Of course, there's still Fido's theory that this side of the poster only shows part of the map, and the full thing is on the flip side... but to me, the side we're seeing shows too much to just be a detail.)

If you take into account the slightly rectangular aspect ratio in their promo map images it could be close enough to work.

 

I'm wondering if those lines could actually be miles, that would make the map inside the border 4x area of San Andreas, which would mean they were using the rectangular RDR size as a comparison... But I guess that's for the map size thread.

Edited June 2, 2013 by zombie elvis

[lxr]

 

This is some excellent analysis!

 

I'm still trying to make sense of the 7-by-9-ness of the squares, vs. the 21.5-by-26.75-ness of the map, vs. all the rest we know about the map size.

 

(Of course, there's still Fido's theory that this side of the poster only shows part of the map, and the full thing is on the flip side... but to me, the side we're seeing shows too much to just be a detail.)

If you take into account the slightly rectangular aspect ratio in their promo map images it could be close enough to work.

 

I'm wondering if those lines could actually be miles, that would make the map inside the border 4x area of San Andreas, which would mean they were using the rectangular RDR size as a comparison... But I guess that's for the map size thread.

Ok, so... that map is 21.5 x 26.75 in.

 

That gives it a (somewhat unusual) ratio of 86:107, like 860 x 1070 px.

 

It has 7 x 9 squares, but they are not even perfectly square.

 

Making them 123 x 119 px gives us a 861 x 1071 px map.

 

 

Now looking at this post again... we'd expect a ~82.5 square kilometers (~32 square miles) map, with ~70% land and ~30% water (which should look like this).

 

So it doesn't seem like these (non-square) squares are square kilometers or square miles. And it also looks like that map will have less than 70% land. (If we want to stick with the 70:30 ratio of land vs. other explorable terrain, the only explanation I can see is that only part of the ocean floor is actually explorable.)

 

And what's the approximate size of the map in meters? Going by the above estimates (861 x 1071 = 922,131 sq px = ~82,500,000 sq m), one pixel would be about 9.459 meters, which would make the map about 8,144 x 10,130 meters.

 

 

But of course, we can't claim that kind of precision, so the bottom line is: The map would be about 8 by 10 kilometers. At a scale of 10 meters per pixel, it would look like this:

 

 

[mnkymanfoo]

Why are some of the roads white lines as opposed to black ones? I'm talking specifically about the north-south roads in Downtown Los Santos. The east-west ones are black but the north-south ones are white. They are clearly roads, is it like a sewer system or something? Personally I haven't really seen any of the secret things that the blueprint was supposed to reveal...

[GTAaLEX117]

Why are some of the roads white lines as opposed to black ones? I'm talking specifically about the north-south roads in Downtown Los Santos. The east-west ones are black but the north-south ones are white. They are clearly roads, is it like a sewer system or something? Personally I haven't really seen any of the secret things that the blueprint was supposed to reveal...

The white ones are probably at a higher elevation.

[lxr]

So if my estimates are roughly accurate, then the dimensions of GTAKiwi's latest map are 11,000 by 10,250 meters.

 

In other words, if you resize it to 1,100 x 1,025 px, it fits into that 10 meters per pixel outline:

 

[Solarcellular]

It says Officially that the map is of Los Santos and Blaine County, so this does NOT include the Salton Sea region, Grapeseed, The Mountains, Forests and Lakes.

 

Its a much bigger map than you think, and all of it does not fit into the Blueprint map released with the Collectors Edition.

 

[artificialguy]

I just highlighted the metro line to give it a better look

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

There was a screenshot released that had a metro station in the background. Has anyone placed that on the blueprint map? It would be interesting to see if it coincides with what we think are the metro lines.

I tried to find more railroads. Can you tell me if I'm correct? I also try to locate this entrance to underground station on the map.

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

It says Officially that the map is of Los Santos and Blaine County, so this does NOT include the Salton Sea region, Grapeseed, The Mountains, Forests and Lakes.

 

Its a much bigger map than you think, and all of it does not fit into the Blueprint map released with the Collectors Edition.

I thought that Blaine county constituted the entire countryside, where did you hear otherwise. Personally, I think you're deluding yourself.

[Solarcellular]

It says Officially that the map is of Los Santos and Blaine County, so this does NOT include the Salton Sea region, Grapeseed, The Mountains, Forests and Lakes.

 

Its a much bigger map than you think, and all of it does not fit into the Blueprint map released with the Collectors Edition.

I thought that Blaine county constituted the entire countryside, where did you hear otherwise. Personally, I think you're deluding yourself.

Numerous articles have stated 'Los Santos, Blaine County and its surrounding areas.

 

Red Dead was BIG, those horse were pretty quick and this new one is 5 times the size.

 

I think your deluding yourself.

[lxr]

And these (again: if my estimates are correct) would be to scale:

 

 

 

[eSJe]

I don't know about west people. But here we normally roll a paper or map with picture side on the inside, so it is unseen when rolled. Or probably that blueprint is double side ? What do you think about this?