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Many atheists don't seem sympathetic to poor.


mt774

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You can thank God for something else then. Man didn't create himself, I ain't buying that theory

Who made GOD!?!? cool.giftounge.gif

 

 

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Religious altruistic people go to Heaven. Religious egoistic people go to Hell.

Atheist altruistic people go to Oblivion. Atheist egoistic people go to Oblivion.

 

Don't confuse morals with institutionalised obligation. Being religious or atheist doesn't make you a better or worse person.

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You can thank God for something else then. Man didn't create himself, I ain't buying that theory

Who made GOD!?!? cool.giftounge.gif

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Amongst other questions like "How did we get here?" and "What is our purpose in life/what is the meaning of life?". Nobody really knows, the best we can really do is speculate.

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You can thank God for something else then. Man didn't create himself, I ain't buying that theory

Who made GOD!?!? cool.giftounge.gif

user posted image

 

Amongst other questions like "How did we get here?" and "What is our purpose in life/what is the meaning of life?". Nobody really knows, the best we can really do is speculate.

I was watching a thing about Aliens the other day and they this dude who believed we are all a part of a giant computer. We're all a game The Sims.

 

Sorry for going off topic.

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Who do i define as poor? well the people who live in the inner-city areas i have lived in both US and UK, not all those ppl are unemployed but don't have much disposable income and any money for luxuries and to send their kids to good schools. So many people the government ignoring that are starving in these areas; at least the church helps out with food banks giving people extra food in the UK because UK is class system country and many poor people there with worst quality of life in Europe. In the UK if you don't have job nobody cares about you and will write you off as a "dole class" hahaha. i have seen myself. The media in UK HATES poor people, not so bad in America.

 

In America in the hoods of Brooklyn and Queens religion is EVERYWHERE, ppl praying to god, ppl grafiti "Jesus cares" and these kind of things on wall and subways, and the preachers always available and accessible to the disadvantaged community.

 

Now every atheist speaker i have seen in public eye speaks with upper-class accent and mannerisms; maybe not every general member of the public who is atheist is from such a background but ALL the spokespersons for atheism seem cut from the same cloth, and i have read Dawkins' books, i doubt most people without a harvard education could even understand some of that God Delusion.

 

In religion at least a lot of those Imams and preachers seem to care and address the concerns of poor people more. It is not atheist job to do this but they seem not at all compassionate to the less fortunate and wish to take away the only crumb of comfort for those people, while offering nothing in its place, no hope, no jobs and such.

 

Religion has saved so many people who were on the wrong path and joining gangs, dealing drugs and all that other stuff in the "ghetto", after they spoke to religious figures it opened their eyes and made them change. You guys must understand that religion in the most deprived areas is the ONLY hope of salvation for some.

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Just because there is not much religious activity does not meann they are atheist. Every poor/disadvantaged person white or black i have spoken to has said they believing in god, they might not attend a church or show much interest in debating or learning about the religions, but they still believe. I have known many ppl who have never even read the bible but still believe in god.

 

I can say truthfully that i have never met anybody from the "ghetto" who had that harsh, anti-god attitude that many atheist have.

 

I mentioned black people because (especially the elderly) are more outspoken religiously, the jehovah's witness who come to my door, always black. The preachers in most deprived communites, always black, and many black people always thank god first and foremost whenever they achieve something good, or become successful, whereas white ppl in the same position don't seem so enthusiastic about thanking the lord, they may thank their parents, people who helped them get there or somebody first, but black ppl always give thanks to god first.

 

If you read any thank you notes on rappers albums covers, the first person they thank is god, and then the rest, but always god first. Not just rappers but those are my example, you can find this same from black basketballers, authors and many other lines of occupation.

I know literally dozens of people from poor and disadvantaged backgrounds, and very few of them are religious. In fact, based on my personal experiences, I have to say that people from low income backgrounds are probably less religious than those from higher income backgrounds. To some extent, it does appear to be the case in the US (see this report here) but the UK is markedly different. Levels of religious belief across British society are much lower than they are in the US, for instance. But there are also interesting differences in the way they hold beliefs. For instance, individuals with lower educational standards and from low-income backgrounds are more likely to be swayed by more fundamentalist teaching- this is a proven statistic across both Christianity and Islam in the UK. It's been part of the reason behind the rise in modern Salaffi teaching in the UK.

 

Well, I have. In fact, my old flat-mate when I was doing my undergraduate degree- who came from a very low-income background and had spent almost his entire life on or under the poverty line by UK standards, and he was possibly the most staunchly anti-religious individual I've ever met. Again, your applying stereotypes to an objective argument and it doesn't follow logically.

 

Has it occurred to you that that has it's basis in cultural background, rather than any other factor? People from minority ethnic groups are more likely to be religious, that's a given fact. But these groups aren't representative of wider society as they are numerically in a minority. And I've never met a black Jehovah's Witness. There's an interesting parallel with education and religious belief. In the West- or, more specifically, in Europe, higher educational standards tally in with a reduction in the likelihood of holding religious belief. Lower educational standards tend to suggest lower economic background, and if lower educational standards involve a higher rate of religious belief, then you could argue that it's a product of the political and scientific enlightenment of the 17th and 18th century, on which most modern teaching is based? That idea tallies well with minority groups descended from areas not exposed to this period in Western history; basically, their lack of historic family exposure to the revolutions in Western (largely European) thinking mean they're more likely to hold religious beliefs, especially if they've not spend long in the higher tiers of the educational system where such ideas are discussed in depth.

 

I think you've lost sight of your argument. Weren't you arguing that atheism lacked empathy? Now your arguing about whether rappers thank God in their album notes, which I never denied. I claimed that by doing so they often went counter to your idea that they lacked empathy, as many of them are either currently related or have been related in the near past to organised crime, which suggests a lack of moral integrity rather than it being intrinsic to people who have religious belief. Basically, you've contradicted your own logic.

Well, many rappers have done crime but notice in songs they always ask God for forgiveness. Even so that crime was often done out of necessity, many people turning to crime when they have no other option; unless you are one of those thinkers that everyone who is unemployed is just "lazy".

 

my point was that in the poor community where population is mostly black, religion is VERY prominent, and there are many pentecostal churches. This is my experience. and if you have never seen a black jehovahs witness, i can't believe that, you must just have not experienced those areas i am describing.

 

If you go up to any middle-age or elderly black person and say you're not sure about believing in god, they will look at you with disgrace and disbelief.

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Well, many rappers have done crime but notice in songs they always ask God for forgiveness. Even so that crime was often done out of necessity, many people turning to crime when they have no other option; unless you are one of those thinkers that everyone who is unemployed is just "lazy".

 

my point was that in the poor community where population is mostly black, religion is VERY prominent, and there are many pentecostal churches. This is my experience. and if you have never seen a black jehovahs witness, i can't believe that, you must just have not experienced those areas i am describing.

 

If you go up to any middle-age or elderly black person and say you're not sure about believing in god, they will look at you with disgrace and disbelief.

Then why do many of them continue to operate inside organised crime and gang circles? It's obviously not out of necessity, they are incredibly wealthy. Explain that?

 

...But the poor community isn't mostly black? Certainly not here, anyway. The poor community in the UK is overwhelmingly white, and overwhelmingly areligious, atheist or anti-religious. If you are arguing the point from a US perspective, then I could see where you are coming from, but I'm arguing from a UK perspective here and your comments are quite simply factually inaccurate.

 

Disgrace and disbelief- the same emotions you claim (falsely) that many atheists hold towards people of religious persuasion. So, instead of supporting the idea of "more compassion" for religious believers, you've basically just nullified your entire primary argument.

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What you are saying about UK poor areas being mostly white is simply not true. Not in London, Manchester and Birmingham anyway. What are Lambeth, Stockwell, Peckham, Brixton etc then?

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Edited by Marwin

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You can thank God for something else then. Man didn't create himself, I ain't buying that theory

I don't think that any sane human being would claim that.

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What you are saying about UK poor areas being mostly white is simply not true. Not in London, Manchester and Birmingham anyway. What are Lambeth, Stockwell, Peckham, Brixton etc then?

Completely false. Please look at these statistics here for Clapham and Stockwell. here for Brixton, here for Lambeth proper and here for Peckham. As you can see from those statistics, the only area of those you've mentioned that actually has a non-White, non-British majority is Peckham. As I've said before, your premise is based on statistical inaccuracies. There are very few boroughs or regional areas in the United Kingdom where White British individuals do not form a sizeable majority- even in large cities with very cosmopolitan populations.

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Man didn't create himself, I ain't buying that theory

If slamman was aa adjective, you'd be too slamman for this whole planet.

Edited by Jay
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He's right. I'm an atheist and I hate poor people. I am also a Nazi and a baby eater. Them babies are a damn good eatin'. I am also a member of KKK even though there are no black people in my country. Maybe it's because I live in a Eastern European country, or maybe it's because we are so damn successful at hunting down them darkies.

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I'm just going to sum it up for you, people who are in bad social conditions are usually more religious, which also has a direct effect on them, they believe praying will get them what they need, when in reality it does jack and if you want something you have to work for it, those people do become successful.

 

Also religion has never saved people per se, in fact, it has quite a negative number of "people saved", what with any and all extremists commiting murder in the name of their gods, including (Yes I went there, Godwin's law) Hitler. In my eyes, most religion is used as a way of "I can do what I want, I will be forgiven" nowadays.

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What you are saying about UK poor areas being mostly white is simply not true. Not in London, Manchester and Birmingham anyway. What are Lambeth, Stockwell, Peckham, Brixton etc then?

Completely false. Please look at these statistics here for Clapham and Stockwell. here for Brixton, here for Lambeth proper and here for Peckham. As you can see from those statistics, the only area of those you've mentioned that actually has a non-White, non-British majority is Peckham. As I've said before, your premise is based on statistical inaccuracies. There are very few boroughs or regional areas in the United Kingdom where White British individuals do not form a sizeable majority- even in large cities with very cosmopolitan populations.

So why does UK have all those racist party then that i see on the news marching and protesting who say London and UK has "ethnic ghettos" and "no go areas for whites" so what areas are they describing then?

 

 

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@Vanja: Fried babies? I find those to be most delicious

 

Anyway, @mt774, guess the number of religious people in those racist groups you mentioned

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So why does UK have all those racist party then that i see on the news marching and protesting who say London and UK has "ethnic ghettos" and "no go areas for whites" so what areas are they describing then?

Because they're reactionary f*cking idiots with little to no grasp of policy, whose sole purpose is to try and unite a disenfranchised segment of society around a common enemy. If you've based your entire understanding of British inner-city demographics on the deluded ramblings of right-wing lunatics, I can guarantee you that not a single one of them will be based in empirical fact.

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every atheist speaker i have seen in public eye speaks with upper-class accent and mannerisms; maybe not every general member of the public who is atheist is from such a background but ALL the spokespersons for atheism seem cut from the same cloth, and i have read Dawkins' books, i doubt most people without a harvard education could even understand some of that God Delusion.

Like I said earlier, most public speakers are upper middle class and educated. Please find me an example of a prominent, working class, non-educated, religious public speaker.

 

As for needing a Harvard education to read Dawkins, that's just objectively wrong. Most people who can pass GCSE English can understand it.

 

 

If slamman was a verb*, you'd be too slamman for this whole planet.

*Adjective tounge.gif

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I'm raised Christian, so yeah, my beliefs are what I hold on to.

That and VCR parts.

 

 

 

Just in case.

 

 

@mt774, now I think you're just making sh*t up.

 

I am an atheist, even though many in my family believe in god, I don't. No matter what people say, I wont change my statements, I believe in the Science, and I think god doesn't exist. Period.

 

However it is doubtful when you say that someone's else is bad, just because he is an atheist, and he doesn't help poor people or whatever. Religion have nothing to do with your fineness, if you are a bad dude it is because you were grown in a bad family, which one couldn't teach you to respect the next one. It isn't the school or the religion who teach you how to deal with others in your life, it is your own family. The parents and all of your relatives who may live near or far from you.

 

Whatsoever you may think, it is the way life tell us how to walk with our own legs.

Edited by ZDANZ96
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every atheist speaker i have seen in public eye speaks with upper-class accent and mannerisms; maybe not every general member of the public who is atheist is from such a background but ALL the spokespersons for atheism seem cut from the same cloth, and i have read Dawkins' books, i doubt most people without a harvard education could even understand some of that God Delusion.

Like I said earlier, most public speakers are upper middle class and educated. Please find me an example of a prominent, working class, non-educated, religious public speaker.

 

As for needing a Harvard education to read Dawkins, that's just objectively wrong. Most people who can pass GCSE English can understand it.

 

 

If slamman was a verb*, you'd be too slamman for this whole planet.

*Adjective tounge.gif

Well, what about Louis Farrakan? he is a religious speaker and doesn't seem upper-class.

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One raised in a troll family talking about other who raised in a christian family. Very likely...

Ohho, you're just cruising for ban.

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...it is doubtful when you say that someone's else is bad, just because he is an atheist, and he doesn't help poor people or whatever. Religion have nothing to do with your fineness, if you are a bad dude it is because you were grown in a bad family, which one couldn't teach you to respect the next one. It isn't the school or the religion who teach you how to deal with others in your life, it is your own family. The parents and all of your relatives who may live near or far from you.

 

Whatsoever you may think, it is the way life tell us how to walk with our own legs.

What about the ones who have no real family, or had a "bad" family and grew up to be different?

 

Your statements are clearly not fact, and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't portray them as such.

You can come from a "bad" upbringing and not be a "bad" person.

 

 

 

In my mind, the reason you're the person you are isn't nailed down to a specific thing, it's a huge combination.

Anything, from the way you were raised, where you grew up, where you went to school, who you interacted with and how, what you did for fun, the films you've watched, the music you've heard, the time period you grew up in, the time period you're experiencing now, your wealth or poverty, your parents or lack thereof, your abnormalities, be they mental or physical, your fears, your passions, your hate, your love, your obsessions, and your plain ol' personal taste of course, the list goes on...

 

Anything can change the way you exist.

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I mean all rappers are religious and are from poor background. Most atheist went harvard and cambridge.

Just looking at my iPod, there are enough atheist rappers to get a nun slapped.

 

I've been atheist since I was 10 years old. Nothing to do with college, I'm straight middle class.

 

I really don't get where this topic came from. I always thought the stereotype was that atheists are liberals and liberals are communists.

Edited by Sakuya

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I am a full blooded atheist and I think thats utter bullsh*t. You think atheists dont help just because religious groups are very noicable in there charaties. No, plenty of rich people are religious.

 

Religion is the biggest sham ever anyways And some homeless people are religious because they need some kind of hope and guidance for there sh*t life

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No atheist has ever done charity in the name of atheism. That's the difference between them. Theists assign a higher purpose to it, atheists do it just because they're good people.

 

I'm sure the OP has actually SEEN a non-religious person be charitable, but didn't realize it because the charitee didn't drag religion in to it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No, we are not sympathetic to the poor. We are above them class wise.

 

No but seriously, Conservatives are the ones who hate the poor. At least IMO they do. wink.gif

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I never understood atheists.

 

I mean, you are going up to a person and telling him that everything he believes in is fake and a lie. Isn't that just a bit much?

 

Being agnostic is just a more neutral stance.

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