A very serious discussion about GTA3 beta pre 911

[nkjellman]

9/11 probaly ultered GTA IV alot more than GTA III. The reason is Rockstar aready had the map done in GTA III so they couldnt of changed it that much if the game was released a month and a half later. The wholl south end of Algonquin would probaly look alot different in GTA IV if it wasnt for 9/11. If you look at the WTC mod for GTA IV the tower's are way too close to the Empire State Bulding (Roterdam Tower). Rotterdam Tower may of been on the right side of Times Square (Star Junction), like in real life.

[Filip]

"Also notable is that the Dodo's prop has no effect once airborne (whether you accelerate or decelerate in the air makes no difference at all)."

 

Bullsh*t.

[Lazlow1]

9/11 probaly ultered GTA IV alot more than GTA III. The reason is Rockstar aready had the map done in GTA III so they couldnt of changed it that much if the game was released a month and a half later. The wholl south end of Algonquin would probaly look alot different in GTA IV if it wasnt for 9/11. If you look at the WTC mod for GTA IV the tower's are way too close to the Empire State Bulding (Roterdam Tower). Rotterdam Tower may of been on the right side of Times Square (Star Junction), like in real life.

Yes, and I think Algonquin would have been longer. Maybe it could be the map of Midnight Club Street Racing

[Nukey Shay]

"Also notable is that the Dodo's prop has no effect once airborne (whether you accelerate or decelerate in the air makes no difference at all)."

 

Bullsh*t.

Do you disagree?

 

As a test, I ran a course from the East end of the diagonal runway and followed SV's coastline to just when "Ghost Town" appears onscreen (flying over the helipad, and dipping under the small square of water which appears near Cochrane). Starting with all 3 wheels on the end of the tarmac, I began accelerating and held the throttle down. At the 10 second mark, I dipped forward to get airborne. Then, I did the same route a few different ways:

 

* holding forward (X) down the entire course

 

* holding reverse (square) down the entire course

 

* holding the handbrake (R1) down the entire course

 

* holding the handbrake and reverse (R1 and square) down the entire course

 

* by alternating use of button combinations during the coarse

 

* not using any goundspeed-altering button(s) at all

 

 

In all tests, the Dodo reached the point where "Ghost Town" is drawn at 88 seconds (or, 78 seconds after liftoff)...and no button combination had any noticable effect on the Dodo's altitude. I also kept pitch between the roughly +/- 30-degree angle so that random "wind" would not be a factor...and started the tests at the same point on the game clock from the same savepoint so any weather or time of day wouldn't either (80 days passed, hour 18:00).

 

 

Conclusion:

The button(s) in question have no effect on the Dodo's forward momentum once it is no longer on the ground.

 

 

What was supposed to happen in your opinion?

[Filip]

Ah, not really. Look, try to do a simple backflip with dodo without acceleration

[Nukey Shay]

A better trick is (without colliding with anything) to come to a complete stop in midair.

 

The exploit which allows you to use any vehicle for the Taxi Driver sub mission is used there. Quit the mission with a passenger, and the Dodo can safely land on any surface big enough for it's wheels to rest on to let the passenger out.

[Filip]

Now land on a police HQ building without that trick

[Nukey Shay]

In Staunton? Easy. Steal the Dodo from the Eastern hangar next to the airstrips and cruise West to get airborne (spinning 180 as you approach the helipad). Head directly to the main strip in Staunton that leads to the Callahan bridge...dipping as you fly between islands to pick up the required altitude. Dip down the last time just as you fly inland...so the Dodo will begin it's next climb to stall as you fly over the lower building in the center of the island (i.e. the one that houses the [email protected] internet [email protected]). When it stalls and dives down, pull back on the stick to stall again as you head toward the darker police station building to your right (killing most of your foward momentum)...landing right on top of the police station's helipad roof. You need to reverse+handbrake on landing since the roof's elevator portion is not "solid".

 

Backing up as far as you can and driving to the Southeastern corner of the roof toward the gap between adjacent buildings is high enough to get airborne again when you want to leave...since you are so close to the waterfront.

[Filip]

I know that. But anyway this is sometimes unsuccesful

[Razor01]

I don't know if you guys noticed this, but there AM Co. building in the game looks like this:

 

 

 

 

A photograph of 6 World Trade:

 

 

 

See the resemblance? There probably was a WTC in the game and it looks like this texture was reused on a new/different building as quickly as possible.

[Filip]

 

In Staunton? Easy. Steal the Dodo from the Eastern hangar next to the airstrips and cruise West to get airborne (spinning 180 as you approach the helipad). Head directly to the main strip in Staunton that leads to the Callahan bridge...dipping as you fly between islands to pick up the required altitude. Dip down the last time just as you fly inland...so the Dodo will begin it's next climb to stall as you fly over the lower building in the center of the island (i.e. the one that houses the [email protected] internet [email protected]). When it stalls and dives down, pull back on the stick to stall again as you head toward the darker police station building to your right (killing most of your foward momentum)...landing right on top of the police station's helipad roof. You need to reverse+handbrake on landing since the roof's elevator portion is not "solid".

 

I said show me if you can, I know how to do this -.- :E

[Sombra]

Even though chances are the Twin Towers/a replica of them weren't in the beta, I'd assume they'd be based in Staunton Island near the downtown area, specifically the area where there is a subway enterance/a glass sculpture thing as those area's seem quite empty compared to the buildings around them. Plus, they would blend in with the others buildings around then, whereas SSV is mostly a residential area, and Portland is just generally a ghetto.

[Prometheus]

I'm not sure if this was posted before, but R* talked about Darkel in a Q&A session, stating that his missions were removed before 9/11.

 

 

Darkel was just a crazy bum who gave you some crazy missions. They were removed a few months before the game was done and long before 9/11 because they just weren’t as good as the rest of the game, and tonally they were a little odd. He started with 5 missions and they were slowly all cut. When only one or 2 were left, they were all removed as the character just didn’t work alongside the other characters.

 

None of these missions involved blowing up buses of school children although that is a funny rumor!

[Filip]

They were good. Odd jobs were fine.

[ccrogers15]

I don't know if you guys noticed this, but there AM Co. building in the game looks like this:

 

 

 

 

A photograph of 6 World Trade:

 

 

 

See the resemblance? There probably was a WTC in the game and it looks like this texture was reused on a new/different building as quickly as possible.

*bump*

 

Jumping jesus on a pogo stick, i never noticed that, but your 100% right. That looks almost identical to the 6 wtc on the bottom of the AM bldg. Look at the texture where the taller part of the tower and smaller part meet, there not aligned correctly, showing edits. So its possible.

[ccrogers15]

*Double Post*

 

Ok so after some looking, i discovered a possibility. As Magic_Al said, what if rockstar in a hurry, merged the WTC twins together, then a few others of it, then changed the texture? The jefferson st building footprint is odd shaped and clearly was edited. SOMETHING was there. Well, look at these outlines:

 

 

 

1 Wtc and 2 wtc, were merged. Then a building almost identical to 7wtc was behind them. See? They were most likely there after all. When the twins were there though, its likely that they were there but rockstar CHANGED them BEFORE 9/11, For random reasons. Because members posted in earlier posts, screenshots from early 2001 showing the jefferson tower like it is in the final, but the area has evidence of tampering. A building in this photo looks almost like 7 Wtc. Like i said, they most likely for unknown reasons decided to not feature the world trade center in the game. The statue of liberty was never featured either, so they might of decided to drop it being a parody of NYC altogether. Crazy.

[Zee]

Very Interesting. It does seem that gtaIII at soem point was indeed going to be closer to NY. but they decided to make it more of a generic city. This was probably a decision made even before 9/11.

 

Edit:infact after seeing the above post you can totally tell that WTC was indeed in the game and were merged to make that big ugly blob looking building. It obviously looks like two building models merged with a big texture stretched over.

 

Here's another render of staunton.

 

 

Look at that big ugly building that is exactly where the WTC should be. Looks way worse than the other skyscrapers. Definitely used to be WTC.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Zee

[Filip]

Which one? This white building is just LOD model that is in the game.

 

Show me the proof of in-game WTC.

 

If not, continuing discussion about WTC is pointless. Even in GTA 3 videos, there was no real WTC building. No twin towers.

 

I learned to be sceptic about some info from some players.

[Arsen Vitiuk]

Doesn't the building on the exact left of the 'thought-to-be WTC' (can't tell if WTC was supposed to be there or not) remind you of the Empire State Building at least a little?

[Zee]

Which one? This white building is just LOD model that is in the game.

 

Show me the proof of in-game WTC.

 

If not, continuing discussion about WTC is pointless. Even in GTA 3 videos, there was no real WTC building. No twin towers.

 

I learned to be sceptic about some info from some players.

Gee,mwhich one wpuld be WTC? Oh, I dont know, maybe the TALLEST BUILDING ON STAUNTON??

 

Part of uncovering a mystery is using logic, and most of you are simply too stupid to figure it out. You constantly need official signed proof from the Housers themselves beforemyou believe anything.

 

 

Meanwhile we already know from hot coffee that they lie out the arse about their developments of the games.

[Zee]

Doesn't the building on the exact left of the 'thought-to-be WTC' (can't tell if WTC was supposed to be there or not) remind you of the Empire State Building at least a little?

No, I think the tallish gray pointy building that resembles the empire state building to be the empire state building. The empire state building is not a ginormous black and silver blob building that looks like two buildings combined and taller than all the rest.

[Arsen Vitiuk]

 

Doesn't the building on the exact left of the 'thought-to-be WTC' (can't tell if WTC was supposed to be there or not) remind you of the Empire State Building at least a little?

No, I think the tallish gray pointy building that resembles the empire state building to be the empire state building. The empire state building is not a ginormous black and silver blob building that looks like two buildings combined and taller than all the rest.

just to be sure: did you actually read my question? Or just looked through it? because I clearly stated what building was I referring to...

[Zee]

Oh, I completely messed up on that. I apologize. Was too worked up on these naysayers.

[Arsen Vitiuk]

Don't you worry even a little bit. Just take it easy, that's all.

[BullworthAcademy]

 

I have been thinking lately about this.

You all know gta 3 was majorly changed due to the 911 attack.

Like missions were cut, the dodo plane was changed to be very hard to fly... etc.

 

 

Question= How different would GTAIII be if 9/11 wouldn't have happened?

Rockstar says:

 

About 1% different. We removed only one mission that referenced terrorists and changed a few other cosmetic details – car details, a couple of ped comments, lines of radio dialogue etc – the game came out a very short time later. The biggest change was the US packaging which remixed the previous packaging into what became our signature style – because the previous packaging [which was released as the cover of the game in Europe] was, we felt, too raw after 9/11. All of the more extreme rumours are amusing but impossible to have been achieved in such a short period of time.

[Zee]

Rockstar also said Hot Coffee was a third party mod.

[Arsen Vitiuk]

No offence, but it seems to me that the Housers act like boys who ate all the cookies and got caught red-handed, trying to make up an excuse. Why deny what was already made and instead trash your devoted fans with some low-quality sh*t?

[Zee]

Eh, they're human. They f*ck up like I just did a few posts up. It happens. I just wish they'd quit lying repeatedly about what or was not in the beta for gtaIII. Sometimes I think they're intentionally holding back info so they have more to release at the 15/20th anniversaries (God help us all when that day finally comes!)

[ccrogers15]

is there any program that can be used to edit the in game building models? I have an idea to prove the theory of merged twin towers. If we can break apart the buildings as i had outlined in my above post, then remove the ugly texture, i wonder what it would look like?

 

 

I mean come on... that building is the ONLY in game building that looks unfinished. The texture is lower res then others, the buildings footprint is not correct, and the location seems odd.

 

 

Facts:

1. Wtc twin towers were taller then every other tower in the city, just like this tower.

2. Wtc twin towers were at the bottom of the city, just like this tower.

3. The new tower looks like the twins were in fact merged together rather quick, but rockstar accidently forgot to edit the game footprint. In that photo that i outlined buildings, a building that is almost identical to 7WTC is in the background.

 

 

Now check this out... Here are some more strange things i outlined:

 

 

As you can see, another building looks similar to 3WTC aka the marriot world trade center. Then, an area of land that is oddly absent of buildings, looks like before they did game edits to the map, there might of been the World Financial Center, since, it was located right next to the wtc. Next we have a building that looks like the empire state building, and a park that looks like a mini central park.

Edited October 29, 2012 by ccrogers15

[Zee]

I agree with you completely. Let's crack open the texture and see what the model looks like.