graphics card

[driftboy1992]

ok i have posted on here before about my dell and im still aiming to upgrade it but now i have a hp pavilion a1700n and i need to upgrade the video card wich is a nvidia geforce 6150 le here is the link for the specs on it http://search.hp.com/query.html?lang=en&qp...contact_us.html

it has a amd athlon 64x2 dual core processor 3800+ 2.0 GHz 1 gig of ram and my problem is im trying to run gtaiv on it, it passes the min requirments except the ram wich is because of the video card it draws from the ram i want to upgrade the card to the geforce 8600gt 2 things i dont know if the card is compatible with the 2 pci slots that are available, and if i would need to upgrade the power supply. here's another link that shows what the slots are but to me it doesnt tell to much or it's me cause im completely a noob to upgrading my pc.

http://search.hp.com/query.html?lang=en&qp...contact_us.html

thanks to anyone who can help and for atleast looking at this.

[sivispacem]

The rest of your system doesn't pass the min requirements. Your about 2 cores, 1000MHz and 3GB RAM shy of being able to run it properly, before you even get to the graphics card.

[AndrefromEstonia]

Completelly pointless desktop computer. Sorry, but thats how it is. I don't know how old it is...but it's better to build a new pc. Second option...strip out everything from the case and then bbuy new parts inside. Problem there being that the case is sh*t. You may have a chance that GTAIV will play on that but not with good frames-per-second, with lousy graphics and lots of graphical issues. A new videocard and more RAM would both come in handy, but will not help very much.

 

E: @sivispacem, you don't need 3ghz clock speed...

[Finn 7 five 11]

 

Completelly pointless desktop computer. Sorry, but thats how it is. I don't know how old it is...but it's better to build a new pc. Second option...strip out everything from the case and then bbuy new parts inside. Problem there being that the case is sh*t. You may have a chance that GTAIV will play on that but not with good frames-per-second, with lousy graphics and lots of graphical issues. A new videocard and more RAM would both come in handy, but will not help very much.

 

E:  @sivispacem, you don't need 3ghz clock speed...

Yeah you might as well give up now, unless your willing to let slamman help you in mottling together some crazy set-up that might work, but i really wouldn't count on it.

[sivispacem]

 

E:  @sivispacem, you don't need 3ghz clock speed...

You do if you want to play it with a reasonable frame-rate and on reasonably good graphical settings. I wouldn't touch it with anything less than a Q6600.

[AndrefromEstonia]

I have a dual core AMD 2,2ghz. I have on medium settings 30fps and i say i don't need more clock speed.

[sivispacem]

I have a dual core AMD 2,2ghz. I have on medium settings 30fps and i say i don't need more clock speed.

As that's 200MHz below even the minimum specs for the game, you'll forgive me when I say I simply don't believe you.

[AndrefromEstonia]

There where you are wrong, by standing only to your experience on expensive quad core PCs. I have a laptop...i even have a fraps made video. Fraps only decreases FPS a lot. So you can't really see the 30fps it does normally. Also i use GameBooster. very useful, graphics card is 4650 and i have 4gb RAM wich 3 is being used. If i tell you i even had Icehancer mod on and got about 15-25fps, then would you believe me? If you keep thinking only on the reccomended specs the game has on it's box and have no experience with slower PCs then you shouldn't even be visiting this thread.

[sivispacem]

 

If you keep thinking only on the reccomended specs the game has on it's box and have no experience with slower PCs then you shouldn't even be visiting this thread.

Where did I say anything about recommended specs?

 

Minimum System Requirements

 

OS: Windows Vista - Service Pack 1 / XP - Service Pack 3

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz, AMD Athlon X2 64 2.4Ghz

Memory: 1.5GB, 16GB Free Hard Drive Space

Video Card: 256MB NVIDIA 7900 / 256MB ATI X1900

 

You can cough and wheeze all you like about how it looks great and is completely playable on a 2.2GHz AMD dual core, but the manufacturer-stated minimum specs say that it won't even work and I'm inclined to trust them over your perceptions of what runs well. 30FPS is bordering on barely playable in my book, 15fps completely unplayable.

Edited September 4, 2011 by sivispacem

[Wolf68k]

Ok before y'alls little bitch fest goes any further, notice all he says is medium settings and doesn't mention the resolution. This sort of thing always annoys me.

You can have a system that barely meets what the game maker says is the minimum requirements and in some cases use all of the highest settings but while using the lowest possible resolution and still get 30-50fps easy. Hell look at any review of a graphics card. They always say they are using the highest settings and then show what it does at 2, 3 or more different resolutions.

So his medium settings could also include running the game at 800x600 or 1024x786 or something low like that.

 

 

As for the OP, and to get this back on topic.

That mobo should have a PCIE 16x slot, so upgrading the video card in that sense should be easy enough. The problem is that you'll most likely need a much better PSU.

HP's specs for that mobo, found here http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/documen...c00757531&lc=en says it can be upgraded to an AMD Athlon 64 5000+ However the down side here is that the ONLY place that I found 1 (in this case 2) was at Amazon. One of those being an OEM used for around $65 and other being new retail box for around $100-145. Newegg, TigerDirect and MicroCenter just don't carry Socket AM2 CPUs any more.

Frankly any upgrade to that HP, or even the Dell you mentioned at the start, would be a waste of time and money.

 

You'd be better of building something of your own. I understand if you said that you don't know how. If you want to learn how then find someone you know and trust to help teach, to watch over you as you do it and don't be afraid to ask what might seem like a stupid question. Also when you do go to build it, take all the time in world that you while doing. And if that person watching over you pressures you to hurry up or says, "screw this just let me do it," slap them (figuratively) and tell them to back off. Of course if you don't want to learn, that's fine too and just let them do it for you.

Short of that take it to someone (NOT BEST BUY) and let them build it for you.

Or you can go to one of the many many sites around and buy what is basically a pre-build slash custom PC. It looks like a custom PC that you did yourself but all of the parts you picked out but from their limited selection and they start you off with a base line set of parts. Dell and HP both kind of offer this sort of thing on their websites but are very very limited, mostly you can pick the CPU, add more RAM, bigger HDD, maybe add a better video card, but you're stuck with their case and mobo and whatever PSU they stick in there based on your video card selection.

[AndrefromEstonia]

I taught you are gonna whine about that i din't say waht settings i have.

I'm running on 1280x720 resolution.. I think everything except texture rendering or whatever it is is on high, that is on medium. I have no shadows on. Detail and view distances are both 27 and vehicle density is 40. The antifouling is 4X. Vsync was off. The other thing on...or was it opposite. I tested just with fraps, how many fps i got. Lowest in the city was 15...very rarely. Highest, when you looked at the sea was 45. In the city itself, it was steady 20-30 FPS.

 

So STFU if you don't know anything on playing on a sh*tty PC. Your also a dumbass for believing factory requirements. just watch videos on youtube, there are even single core machines that are actually playable. I even don't use any other help, only gamebooster.

 

And the reccomended stuff, i ment minimum...don't know why i wrote that. Maybe because you were talking about some 3ghz wich isn't needed.

[sivispacem]

So STFU if you don't know anything on playing on a sh*tty PC. Your also a dumbass for believing factory requirements. just watch videos on youtube, there are even single core machines that are actually playable. I even don't use any other help, only gamebooster.

I think that borders on flaming. I'd watch your tone and simmer down.

[Wolf68k]

@AndrefromEstonia

I really hope that last part wasn't directed towards me.

As for your settings, it sounds like you don't really have medium settings, more like mild kind of between low and medium. Although why you want water and reflections on high while textures on medium is a question, but to each their own. The resolution, I would say that's a medium setting.

 

If the last part was for me; then you are a very rude person and have seem to have little to no respect for anyone that has a different opinion from yours. Yes I do a great deal about playing games on a crappy PC with less the required specs. I'd even go so far as to say I might know more about it than you do. And no I don't believe in what the game maker's minimum requirements are. I've seen systems play games just fine, at least for the most part, that don't even come close to what the minimum specs are.

[AndrefromEstonia]

You two have so similar avatars, i taught sivispacem made a double post.

Other then that... And you guys seem to be rude, you seem to think everything you say is the turth. Also you don't believe anything for example i say. I know everything playing on a sh*tty PC, cause i have only played on sh*tty PCs. And how the F are those low settings? Shadows and even higheer resolution plus high textures make me lag. I tried allready putting textures on high. It starts lagging more. But right now it looks decent enough to play. What i say is the truth. Also about resolution, my laptop can handle 1366x768, not more. I turned it down to 720p, just to get more FPS. You can't say medium or high by meaning resolution...really weird understanding.

 

I'm only rude if the person is telling BS and doesn't believe me.

[Wolf68k]

Actually I was being very polite. And our avatars are nothing alike, other than the fact they are round.

Now then as to your settings. Ok so you have textures on high, and what are the other settings? If the others were high as well, did you try setting those a lower setting and keeping textures on high?

The point of my first post is that you have configure the settings to get the best graphics you can but at the same time get the best performance. That means in some cases you might have to give up some things.

It's like I said before; Water Quality: do you really need the water to look great? Same for Reflections. Why would you need to see a reflection of something to be in great detail when you're going to spending most of your time at a high rate of speed that you can't even see the reflection in the first place?

Shadows, that fine if you want to turn them off they just make the game look good although they can be useful at times too and they do give some of the environments more depth.

 

Yes I can say a resolution can be thought of as medium or high or even low setting. If you were, just for grins, set everything to the highest possible setting and use FRAPS just to record the framerates not video. Then set the resolution the lowest possible setting, go play the game for a bit. Then stop, change the resolution the highest your system will support, then play doing as much as possible of the exact same thing you did before as best you can. In the end you will see a huge difference between the 2. Better still, use the games own build in benchmark test. It's not the best thing to go by but in this case it'll still prove my point.

It's like I said, this is proven if you look at reviews of graphics cards. They set the game to the highest settings but change the resolution between 2, 3 or more different sizes. The results between the lowest and highest can be as little as 10fps or as much as 50fps, it all depends on the game itself.

 

Everything I say is not BS. It's all proven facts, time and time again. And I never said I don't believe you. I'm sure you do just fine with what you have, that's all anyone can do; do the best can with what you have to work with. I do that all of the time and still do.

Now yes, sivispacem said he doesn't believe you and frankly since you're on a laptop with those specs I kind of have a hard time believing it too. That's not to say I don't. However when you say you get 30fps with those specs and medium setting it is hard to believe more so when you're telling to people with higher end system and have trouble maintaining 30fps. Now then you said that for the most part you get between 20-30fps, ok then really on the average, and based on that, you actually an average fps of around 25. And keep in mind I'm only going based on what little you tell us. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, here is another example of 'do the best I can with what I'm given.'

 

Just calm down and relax.

[AndrefromEstonia]

Now your retelling my story with your own words by making everything different. I'm tired of explaining this sh*t allready.

 

And your avatars are very similar when you don't look at them straigthly. I said "i think my swettings were all high". I didn't say they were. I don't use fraps all the time to measure my FPS, so i was wrong a little bit. I don't remeber what my settings were, cause i put them in place a long time ago and haven't changed them. They work fine, no very hard lag. The thing is, my processor has this werid thing, that after a certain time the FPS drops 5-10 frames. Then goes back up again. You know eveyr slower PC does't have the same result as you may think. It's just the matter of how rich people are...i'm not very rich and can't afford a good PC wich can handle GTA4 well right now. next year i will maybe buy one, MAYBE. But thats not the issue over here.

 

Now then as to your settings. Ok so you have textures on high, and what are the other settings? If the others were high as well, did you try setting those a lower setting and keeping textures on high?

The point of my first post is that you have configure the settings to get the best graphics you can but at the same time get the best performance. That means in some cases you might have to give up some things.

It's like I said before; Water Quality: do you really need the water to look great? Same for Reflections. Why would you need to see a reflection of something to be in great detail when you're going to spending most of your time at a high rate of speed that you can't even see the reflection in the first place?

 

You really think i didn't mess with the settings to get that FPS result? Jesus... Textures are what require the most out of the PC, offcourse it lowers the FPS. Water quality was maybe medium...i don't know exactly. Reflections are more important then textures when you drive around. I mean, the car shines in the sun for example and when you speed you canät even see the textures.

 

 

But screw this, this isn't on topic.

[OverTheBelow]

Textures are actually the least performance-affecting feature you can play with if you have a decent harddrive and a 1GB video card. It rarely lowers FPS, but can introduce stuttering on weaker CPUs (also, framerate drops like you mentioned).

 

Reflections also have a big effect on CPU performance with this game and again, if your CPU is not up to the task will suffer stuttering and framedrops with it on a higher setting.

 

 

I don't use fraps all the time to measure my FPS, so i was wrong a little bit.

That is the exact problem here. You say you get a solid 30fps, and yet you don't even know for sure because you say you are just making estimations on what you think you see. For all we know, you could think a real 20fps playback is smooth enough to be 30fps in your books; 15fps might be your 20fps and so on. You need experienced eyes to accurately distinguish framerates without a FPS counter, and even then it isn't always a correctly interpreted.

 

It's hard to describe what I'm trying to say here, but I hope you understand.

[AndrefromEstonia]

I used FRAPS to get the result i told back then...jeez people learn to read.

E: It's a pain in the ass to explain you guys everything, you just can't seem to understand nothing i say. Is it my poor enlgish or what?

Edited September 4, 2011 by AndrefromEstonia

[driftboy1992]

alirght thanks for the help thats what i was wondering yeah i try to find someone that can teach me how to build my own custome pc and for the guys arguing on here i didnt ask for you to argue and pc's can easily do more than there specs if you know how to find the right settings for it. Wolf68k i'll probaly be meassaging you whenever i build it if i cant find someone to show me how to build one. admin lock this topic before someone else try's to argue again waste of space

[leik oh em jeez!]

If you want the best upgrade for $50, it would be a 9800GT or 8800GT. My brother has an HP a1647c, a very similar model to your system, and ran a 9800GT OC just fine without a PSU upgrade.

 

And I get great performance with my 9800GT/2Gb/E8400 system @ 1680x1050. Medium settings aren't all that hard to achieve.

[Slamman]

I'd upgrade my 8600GT nVidia to an 8800, but I would also like an SLI board and an identical card to see what happens compared to just a flat out 1 card replacement. you think you can better a newer card just with SLI or Crossfire?

 

 

Wow, I basically got a very similar system as yours only 2005 Asus board for HP Media Center edition, covers several models and is Intel and not AMD. My BFG board is AMDx2 dual core compliant but uses DDR DIMM, and 4 slots of that old RAM standard, so it was my BluRay rig HT theater PC for the moment.

 

The memory for GTA IV outside of the graphics card should be 1.5 for XP? IIRC, more for newer OS.

My 8600GT Palit graphics card was also a good buy deal, it was from Microcenter shop. Has 512MB of DDR3 video ram or VRAM

Edited September 10, 2011 by Slamman

[driftboy1992]

the whole point of this post was because i wanted to know if i could run the card without upgrading the psu thats all im worried about, and i just want to upgrade it so my ram doesnt go down as bad, im used to running at low frames per second i used to average 15 to 20 fps on san andreas on my dell, now with the hp a can run snow andreas with enb at about 25 to 30 fps thats with 800 x 600 32bit with high txd quality and with all the car mods snow andreas offers so it should be able to run gta iv without lagging so bad that you want to throw your pc out the window im not use to high frames, so please just tell me do i need to upgrade the psu or not cause i dont want to go by the card and put it in then run low on power and screw everything up. Im only 19 and where i live no place is hiring so i dont have much of a income unless someone needs help then i only make enough to maybe be able to get the card, in other words building a custom pc isnt a option right now. if i need to upgrade the psu then i'll get the card then save up for the psu. this is alot to read didnt mean to type this much im not trying to be rude to anyone and leik oh em jeez! if yours ran it fine then cool hopefully mine will to but i dont have the money to risk it i have 60 get the card but not for the psu. to me it's worth upgrading the card, it would quit draining my ram and i could have a little more for the games i play on it, so all i need to know if it is safe for sure to run the card. im done typing and thanks everyone for there help and atleast i know some more about pc's.

 

 

[leik oh em jeez!]

If you've got $60, that's enough for an 8800GT or 9800GT. (Which your computer should run just fine without a psu upgrade)

You could also look for an 8800GS, or any 9600 series nividia card. Any of those would give you a lot more power than an 8600GT, and use slightly less power than an 8800GT. Keep in mind an 8800GT should be 3-4 times faster than an 8600GT.

$60 for an 8600GT is a rip off. $35 is a more reasonable price for such a weak card.

 

Worst case being your PSU isn't powerful enough, you could always throw the card up on Craigslist and look for one that uses less power.

 

[driftboy1992]

im not going to pay 60 for it i actually found 2 on ebay that was actually 37.50 so you seem to know what your talking about i'll get the 8800 i just dont want to fry the card cause when i was reading about graphics cards they said if you run short on power you could end up frying it. is that true or not.

[Wolf68k]

I don't think your PSU will be able to support the 8800GT correctly.

Have a look at the PSU it self. There should be a sticker on it that shows what the max wattage is and hopefully what the Amps are on the +12V. It might read as: +12V @ #A.

Base on a couple sites that sell replacement parts for that HP the PSU is a 300W with +12V @ 19A, with a minor detail of no PCIE connection.

Then after searching as best I can the only PSU requirements I can find for a 8800GT are from eVGA which says their cards require a 400W PSU with +12V @ 26A.

 

Will you fry the card? What will likely happen is that once the card is under load you're screen will go blank, random system crashes, BSODs and so on. I don't think it will damage the card. I tried looking into this too and the only place I found anyone saying what will happen is in forums where no one can say they actually tried/tested it. I think unless someone that actually knows what they are doing sits down to test it then saying that will in fact damage the card is purely speculation.

I've had a PSU that had more than enough power to run a 6800GS, but as the PSU started to slowly die, thus making it underpowered, my system would at first just go blank and then later would BSOD on boot. Replacing the card for one that required less power the system ran fine, that is until the PSU got down to a point were even that card was causing the same thing to happen.

[leik oh em jeez!]

My brother's a1647c (slightly lower model) came with a 400w and ran a factory OCed 9800GT just fine. I can also confirm that PSUs with wattage as low as 250w can run 8800/9800GTs, though 400w is the recommended.

[driftboy1992]

alright well ill go ahead and get the card only problem now is that i went and got 2 games flight simulator x deluxe and sniper ghost warrior so i'll have to save up agian soon as i get it i'll post on here what happens if it runs low on power. thanks everyone that helped me out, you just got to love this forum

[Wolf68k]

My brother's a1647c (slightly lower model) came with a 400w and ran a factory OCed 9800GT just fine. I can also confirm that PSUs with wattage as low as 250w can run 8800/9800GTs, though 400w is the recommended.

I'm not going to debate what PSU came with your brothers system. My point is that he shouldn't go by what your brother has. The replacement PSU for your brothers system is the same as his. Now unfortunately HP doesn't list what the PSU is that comes with their system and the few times I have seen it from other makers there is little no detail other than the Wattage.

 

Yes the card does not pull 400W even though a 400W PSU is suggested by most makers. I can read review sites too. They only thing they are paying attention when they show how much power a card uses is just that, how much the card is pulling, not how much the card plus the rest of the system is pulling hence the reason a 400W is suggested.

 

 

@driftboy1992

Trust me when I say this. Before you jump up and buy that card take just a few moments, open the case and look at the specs of the PSU first.

 

What would be better? Knowing first if your PSU can handle the card and then buying it...or...buying the new card and finding out the hard way that your PSU is too weak and thus causing all sorts of new problems.

 

[leik oh em jeez!]

 

I'm not going to debate what PSU came with your brothers system.

I wasn't trying to debate what PSU came in his system, simply stating a fact.

 

 

Yes the card does not pull 400W even though a 400W PSU is suggested by most makers. I can read review sites too.

You can read review sites too? Are you inferring that I just looked the card up on a review site? No, 400w was the recommended PSU when I was looking to buy an 8800GT when they came out.

 

 

They only thing they are paying attention when they show how much power a card uses is just that, how much the card is pulling, not how much the card plus the rest of the system is pulling hence the reason a 400W is suggested

I'm not a f*cking moron. I know the card's power draw isn't the only thing a PSU needs to run. When I said 8800GTs can run on 250w PSUs that's because I ran a system with a 9800GT on a 250w PSU.

[driftboy1992]

alright first off you 2 there's no reason to be arguing once i get the money up im going to by the card and then im going to call hp and find out what they think of it first no matter if it does have the amount of power it needs or not if it cant run the card then i will be putting the card on the side until i get the money for a more powerfull psu and i will make the damn thing fit if it doesnt so no arguing you guys are going to piss me off if you start arguing wolf68k dont post anything back to leik oh em jeez! he's just pointing out that his brothers pc ran it without any problems and that mine could possibly be able to as well you guys have been very helpfull and i dont want you guys arguing for no reason. wolf68k i understand what you mean dont go buy the card then try to run it, because 1 i dont have the money to risk trying to plug it in right off the bat and risk it thats not what i meant on my last post once a do some research and make sure it doesnt screw the computer. point is i checked the guts of the pc it says on the psu:

Input 120-127v ~ 8a

47Hz-63Hz 200-240v ~4a

output +12v ~19a +3.3v 18a

Max power +5v ~ 25a +5vstb 2a

300w -12v 0.8a

thin this is under the above on the psu

+5v &12v TOTAL POWER OUTPUT CANT EXCEED 268w

+5v & +12v

+5v & +3.3v TOTAL POWER OUTPUT CAN EXVEED 175W

+5v & +3.3v

the computer is actually setting on my lap as im typing this im on my dell right now i typed all of this exactly as it is on the psu so hopefully that will help you help me so there you go and im going to take some pics and upload them on here as long as i can find my usb plug for the camera if not i'll upload them 2morrow or friday. again thanks for the help. QUIT ARGUING