Mini Tower Build advice

[Andrew]

I rarely put any paste on, I use what was originally applied, if you start with nothing, it could still work, I've seen it myself, but try some cheap OCZ Freeze, worked on my Xbox RROD though, only as a temp solution, it proved to me it worked and I bought more

I suggest you don't listen to him...

 

You need thermal paste on the cooler, if the cooler already has some applied you don't need to put any on. But you don't need much paste, too little doesn't work, and too much makes it worse.

[Barry Spock]

Cheers. If I have other questions, and I'm sure I will, I'll put em in the random Qs thread.

I haven't built a PC in 10 years and now all the parts are here it looks like a huge amount of cables. I just watched that newegg vid in the 'build a pc thread' so that helped.

 

It's amazing how blingy things are these days - like the graphics card, and even the ddr ram.

 

[Slamman]

I took a working unit that's retrofitted apart just to BORROW the PSU for more mobo testing, and I use a lot of SATA and the old IDE cables still, I recently got the ones that are cut and tied to smaller "form factor" and many laugh or complain about IDE cables still being used, but there are plenty of DVD burners that use them and you may want to access an older HDD that is PATA so it's good to have the ability on hand.

 

Andrew, have you run a cooler and CPU with no paste? Do it and see for yourself, I'm talking about experience I have in doing so, as long as a FAN is there and operational, and the heat sink is worthy, it will take the heat off the CPU as needed, the paste is just there as an aid, the newer chips produce lower heat and require lower voltages, they just cost more, so you tend to worry needlessly I'd say

Edited September 9, 2011 by Slamman

[Andrew]

No because I don't want to damage my components. There is a reason paste was invented and used, and for the sake for a few quid I'm going to use it.

[Sombra]

holy f*ck running a CPU without TIM is like putting petrol in a diesel engine etc. Try running Crysis or Metro on any high-end CPU without paste, chances are it'll overheat. Also OP is running a mATX case. Think of the heat problems!

 

 

[Slamman]

There's liquid cooling and multiple fans. Run it without thermal paste and have your hardware and software monitor the temps, I challenge you. I've been avoiding paste for one main reason, STICKING of the CPU to any and all heatsinks, this damages the miniature teeth and pins, so I avoid it mostly for that reason and simplicity, Again, low heat is the objective with the modern tech, the older chips I was aware, ran hotter and higher, over clocking demands more heat solutions then normal use. SFF perhaps as well.

[Sombra]

"this damages the miniature teeth and pins"

 

How on earth do you manage to get thermal paste UNDER the cpu...Also I'd rather not run a OC'ed i7 without paste. The only "sticking" I ever experienced was on a five year old Athlon 3200 build which came off after prime95 and some twisting it about,

[Slamman]

Removing a heat sink damages the CPU and socket, when it's stuck like cement, make sure to just dab some on, and if it's there already, but dried, use that! It works is what I'm saying, it's not going to blow up on you

[Sombra]

I fitted three coolers onto my current CPU (Intel Stock, Thermaltake Frio and Zalman CNPS) and never had trouble. On that old athlon build I mentioned I pulled (more ripped) the heatsink AND cpu out of the socket (the lever stayed down too) and didn't damage anything either. Also I wouldn't recommend using old, dry thermal paste again. Also why are we still going on about this haha OP bought his build! Hows it going for you?

[Slamman]

I have at least 30 computers, the only time I killed a CPU was damaging the Pin Grid Array or CPU pins, or very rare CPU burn out due to poorly securing the heat-sink. This is something you should be much more concerned with, The metal plate on the CPU is called a SPREADER, it in effects also spreads the heat away from it's concentrated CPU core, so when multiple cores are there, they are under the spreader, you can't tell that they are about the same size as a single core, nearly microscopic in nature. Sure they get mighty hot as they function, but the heatsink and fan are critical, more so then any paste.

 

Just mentioning that there's no way to DeBunk actual experience ...the old "pictures or it didn't happen" is essentially what I'm saying, I can show video that a CPU will work without thermal paste, but if you're working on the XBOX 360, a RROD for example, the heat sinks are directly under needed and boxed up components, the fans sit on the rear vented chassis, away from the heat sink entirely, so putting thermal paste on that is also a good idea, that system gets hot for sure. The PS3 has one large fan attached to a metal plating that fits above and below a motherboard with all the chips, the SUPER hot power supply sits on top of that metal casing, and that thing I can tell gets hot on it's own. The metal acts as a ground where it screws together, and it helps isolate problem areas. I believe it works as a spreader as well, this is true in laptop builds.

 

Most of my PCs have been miniATX. Anyway, Nuff said, you can get paste, and you should for new builds, but use it sparingly, not so that you can't get the system apart again when you upgrade, or the next person does

Edited September 10, 2011 by Slamman

[Wolf68k]

Ok if I may let me try to shed some light on this rather stupid argument, that once again, Slamman has created.

 

First off the use of the term "thermal paste". There are 3 different types of thermal "stuff" used with CPUs, GPUs and even on RAM; grease, compound and paste.

Grease is that white crap that use to come with heatsinks, usually the stock ones but also with some third-party ones as well. You had to spread that crap on and the only up shot do it was that it very easy to apply and if you went overboard with it that was ok too since it had no metals in it there was no need to worry about shorting anything out. Basically it was very hard to not screw up applying it and still getting to work properly.

Compound is much thicker and usually comes in a syringe. The common example is Arctic Silver 5. This was usually very hard, mostly for beginners, to apply and you had to do it exactly how the manufacture suggests. Because some compound do contain metals, like the silver in AS5, you had to be careful to get it exactly where it need to be with little to no spillage in fear that it could possibly short something out. Compounds like this are today usually pre-applied to the heatsinks with no need to use anything else.

Paste is also usually pretty thick, I'm not sure exactly how it comes packaged. It is by definition a glue. It's usually used for heatsinks that have no mounting brackets, but I have seen it used on CPUs as well. I've never personally used it myself but I have had a bitch of a time trying to remove a heatsink from whatever it was stuck too.

 

Why did I bore you guys with that? Because someone started using the word paste when it's fairly certain they meant compound. Where as Slamman saw paste for what it is, a glue, and started a whole new argument which in some way he is right. However, Slamman, you some times need the forums here a couple times and not think so literal. To some people grease, compound and paste all mean the same thing and think that it just a different term for where different people are from. Think of it as the debate over; soda, pop, cola, coke, soda water, soda pop, soft drink and so on. Depending on where you're from is what you call it and some people get confused when you call it something else. In this case however it really does mean the same thing.

 

 

Now to the running a heatsink on a CPU with or without any kind of thermal "stuff". Yes it's possible and No it's not suggested by those that actually know what they are talking about.

It's possible because if you take a seasoned and correctly burned in CPU and heatsink the theory is the thermal compound is already worked into the micro imperfections of both well enough that applying more could possibly cause heat issues. Like I said, it's a theory one of which I have yet to see proven one way or the other. However if you using a fresh heatsink and or CPU then it is highly advisable to use a thermal compound or grease (not paste) even if one of the 2 items is already seasoned/burned in. Now at the same time it is possible to run a fresh headsink and CPU without using any thermal "stuff" at all, but it is extremely ill advised because this can, and usually will, cause some heat issues to come up usually being that the CPU will run hotter than it should and more so under a real load like a CPU stress test.

[Star-Lord]

Technically all is paste but like Wolf68k stated, they're different types for different purposes. The white type was ceramic base mixed up with silicone. This type of paste was very common in the 90's all the way up to 2001. You can still buy it but it was aimed more at the low profile CPUs. As CPUs became more hotter [AMD] metal base compound was introduce which was usually silver, aluminium and even alloy. Clearly more expensive than ceramic base but the best by far at providing the most sufficient heat extraction. A pea-size amount was all you needed which would spread evenly on it's own as burn-in would transpire.

 

Any who, without getting into further detail seeing how Wolf68k has hit it right on the nail -- you cannot advise someone not to use a thermal solution of any kind --when in reality it's a must. You might put a heatsink without thermal on a CPU because you think it doesn't run hot or the heat is not enough to damage the CPU's die, and/ or neighbouring transistors, But I guaranteed you will eventually damage the CPU. The thermal compound is needed to remove the heat from the surface of the CPU, so it doesn't escape from underneath the heatsink, it creates a tight seal so the hot air can flow upwards and out. The reason for this is because heatsinks have surface imperfections where air can and will escape. Once the air escapes, the heat remains longer than it should, slowly damaging the die or in some cases causing all sort of random problems. Before it kicks the bucket.