The Downfall of community

[Rytuklis]

Good evening guys. Probably most of users have noticed me being harsh on people lately, and even more on new DYOM users.

 

But i have my reasons, and i'm tired of explaining everything all over again for everyone. So i'll just make my self clear for some people.

 

The reason of my harshness on new players is that they keep making mission packs. Ok, i understand it's great DYOM is expanding! But what makes me mad is that new users doesn't even practice before making Mission packs. I made like sh*tloads of single-missions back in time when i joined and uploaded them to DYOM. I first got over how DYOM works and so on. Back then, most of people used to do it.

 

And what new poeple do now, is they simply practice minute or two and make a new mission pack with horrible topics. After that they upload one or two missions, after that they dissapear. Exactly! They just abadon the mission pack and dissapear! Nobody ever hears about them again.

 

So, was it necessary to create a topic then?

And also , most common fake excuse these days are PC problems.

 

Well, i'm not saying everybody is lying, but you can easy indentify people who lie about that.

[Mati]

You don't need to explain your comments at all. Nobody needs to play an angel here, if you think a mission pack suck, feel free to tell it as long as you keep it constructive instead of ''OMFG dis suck plz no moar lol''.

About the people you mentioned: f*ck them. It's their own mistake, just look away.

[IX-MJ-XI]

I understand and get your point. But atleast give the new guys a lil' chance. Help them and all, but if the second or third mission he makes is still the same even you teach him/her everything, now there's the time for you to be a bit harsh. Just a thought.

[Dutchy3010]

What you forget, is that the missions you made back then, were made in an early version (and was probably not any better than the easy missions now). You could learn it very quickly. It's much easier when you start at one of the first versions, and "grow together with it". You know much about DYOM because you had only a few more features each time, so you could learn every feature before continuing to the next. It's very difficult to know the ins and outs of this mod when you start with v6. That's one of the reasons why we need more tutorials. You know a lot about DYOM, why don't you share this information? If you share your knowledge, there will be better missions!

 

Of course, I can understand what you are feeling. It is logical that it happens, but it isn't fair to the very good users. We hope we can help you with this problem soon.

[HOOLS ZG]

I don't understand why are you so upset about that. This is just a damn game. You are behaving like this DYOM is something really important for the life. Let people make missions how much they want if that is their fun. Stop being so upset. Leave it.

[Doublepulse]

Everyone when they first start cannot be expected to make missions that are awesome. Even after 8 missions, not one person is going to learn everything in such a short matter of time.

 

Dutchy's advice about learning with older versions is great. Get used to the small things and move on to bigger. Then again DYOM has advance alot!! I came around with v5 was released. I never worked with any other versions, but I played with features, tried different things. I would recommend v4 or v5 for newcomers to share their experience with . Those have most of the features that are used today.

 

Because it has advanced, most older designers tend to forget which features were not available in the older versions. Maybe this is why we treat some new users harshly. Our expectations have increased as newer versions came along.

 

I recently wanted to check out old versions. I checked out DYOM v1.1. THE FIRST. DYOM has went along way. You could not really develop much with that. Just place actors, Cars, checkpoints and pickups. No CUTSCENES. Im really impressed at what has been achieved to this very day.

 

The real thing to remember is people have to start somewhere. Regardless whether they upload their simple missions or not, getting experience is the key. Never get discouraged and never give up. Just because someone does not like your work, does not mean you don't have to be proud of it.

 

@Dutchy

I am thinking of uploading tutorials on some techniques I use to make my missions maybe with or without commentary, that I still have to decide.

----------------------------------

 

Then again, I do not believe Rytis is really upset with the missions people upload, but instead the amount of "Spam" topics that go around. I think the cause of the abandon mission packs is obviously because of their confidence dropping.

 

Still its obvious to see which "Spam Topics" are created by Trolls or not. If something does not work out we move on.

 

The people who troll around never move on.

 

This post of mine is getting little long, but I treat DYOM as hobby more than a Chore, even though designing can get tiring after awhile .

 

However, some missions I would love to encourage is something that is not really a "story" but a simple challenge like stunts, parkour, or survival test. The possibilities are limitless.

[Rytuklis]

Seems like you did not get my point.

 

It's not because quality of the missions. Nobody were perfect at their first days.. But..

 

 

The reason of my harshness on new players is that they keep making mission packs. Ok, i understand it's great DYOM is expanding! But what makes me mad is that new users doesn't even practice before making Mission packs.

 

 

And what new poeple do now, is they simply practice minute or two and make a new mission pack with horrible topics. After that they upload one or two missions, after that they dissapear. Exactly! They just abadon the mission pack and dissapear! Nobody ever hears about them again.

 

 

This guy sickens me:

 

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?act=ST&...entry1060686600

 

And how can you not hate newbs?

Edited August 22, 2011 by Rytuklis

[Kratos2000]

I do not hate newbs, in one point they'll learn, by making missionpacks or singles. It does not matter, you make it sound like it's all about life and death.

They are not getting paid for doing this, thus you can't really accuse them of doing something bad.

However you can ignore them, DYOM shouldn't be a burden - If you don't feel it as fun, you do not have to lower your expectations just because the designer was limited/etc.

You guys forgot what fun is.

If you lower your expectations and describe everything as 'fun'; this simple word will lose any meaning.

[Uros12]

I smell another flame war soon...

[pauliux2]

Damn,you just wrote like DYOM is your whole life..We know that there are newbs...But they are learning..We all learn.If something's bad,Mod's lock the topic,tell the problems...

Im out.

[MegaDas14]

Rytuklis is right.Many newbies start creating mission-packs,they make 3 missions,and then they drop them.

 

Actually there are some new guys who made storylines,like this guy,and nobody bothered posting comments...

[Jimmy_Leppard]

I agree with a couple of people here. At some points, I agree with you, Rytuklis, also. I know that people's careless behaviour bothers you, but why losing your nerves about that? They obviously don't care, why should you?

 

Let's be real, that ain't the situation with every new member here. But you all who have problems with every new member ditching a mission pack after 2-3 missions have to realise something: It ain't completely their fault. Me, aswell as you all know how many people actually play other people's missions. Not a lot, to say it that way. So, some of these new members who opened a new topic for a MP and ditched it after 2 missions maybe wouldn't ditch if someone actually gave them a proper and honest feedback about the missions every once and a while.

 

When I check out a new topic by a new member, maybe one other person comments about their missions. They probably get discouraged cause nobody plays their missions and they ditch it cause they don't want to make the missions for themselves. They probably think like: ''Ah, who the f*ck am I making these missions for?'' And I understand them. However, there are still some trolls, such as TonyCJ, who didn't take their mission pack seriously, so they ditched it beacuse themselves aren't interested in the mission pack, or they just can't focus on one thing for a longer period.

 

There is also a third group of people when it comes to mission making. These people are actually very good mission designers, but they ditch a mission pack because of the lack of ideas. That is also the biggest problem in DYOM mission making. F*ck, at one point I almost decided to ditch my ''Brian Thompson's heist'' mission series for that reason. And look at it now. If I did that, I would have made a huge mistake. That mission series actually became my best series until now. And I almost ditched it because I couldn't get an idea to move on for like 2 weeks.

 

 

Well, most of you probably won't even read this whole post, but I just wanna say that sometimes you need to give people space and time to put things together. Like missions. I mean, is it that big problem for some of you to see an unfinished mission pack every once and a while? I don't think so. Just go around it, ignore it, whatever. There is no need to lose your mind and freak out about it.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Jimmy_Leppard

[Dutchy3010]

And how can you not hate newbs?

Because you all where newbies for us once upon a time.

 

But believe me, soon there will be a opportunity to fix this. But then, once again, it's also in your hands. Please have a bit more patience (we know we ask a lot of patience from the best DYOM designers, but it all takes a lot of time and we have also a fulltime job/university next to it...)

 

We are desperately in need of some great tutorials. We would be grateful when you, and others who are as advanced as you, want to make them.

[GTAIndonesia]

Newbs don't know how the forum just works, and how DYOM is so don't expect much from them

and few people HATE DYOM like this retard

[KENY1RAY2]

 

And how can you not hate newbs?

Because you all where newbies for us once upon a time.

 

But believe me, soon there will be a opportunity to fix this. But then, once again, it's also in your hands. Please have a bit more patience (we know we ask a lot of patience from the best DYOM designers, but it all takes a lot of time and we have also a fulltime job/university next to it...)

 

We are desperately in need of some great tutorials. We would be grateful when you, and others who are as advanced as you, want to make them.

Dutchy3010 wanted to ask something without discomfort. Could I do dyoma tutorials in Spanish? So just getting people could learn faster and join the community dyom.

[pauliux2]

 

And how can you not hate newbs?

Because you all where newbies for us once upon a time.

 

But believe me, soon there will be a opportunity to fix this. But then, once again, it's also in your hands. Please have a bit more patience (we know we ask a lot of patience from the best DYOM designers, but it all takes a lot of time and we have also a fulltime job/university next to it...)

 

We are desperately in need of some great tutorials. We would be grateful when you, and others who are as advanced as you, want to make them.

Dutchy3010 wanted to ask something without discomfort. Could I do dyoma tutorials in Spanish? So just getting people could learn faster and join the community dyom.

Well, I didn't saw many Spanish people in DYOM...

And you should use PM next time for such things.

[Kratos2000]

And how can you not hate newbs?

Because you all where newbies for us once upon a time.

 

But believe me, soon there will be a opportunity to fix this. But then, once again, it's also in your hands. Please have a bit more patience (we know we ask a lot of patience from the best DYOM designers, but it all takes a lot of time and we have also a fulltime job/university next to it...)

 

We are desperately in need of some great tutorials. We would be grateful when you, and others who are as advanced as you, want to make them.

Dutchy3010 wanted to ask something without discomfort. Could I do dyoma tutorials in Spanish? So just getting people could learn faster and join the community dyom.

No. Please no.

 

Teach them English and it will make everything simplier for us.

[Mati]

Why are there that many Spanish missions on the DYOM site anyways? It's not that I don't like Spanish (love that language), but it gets quite annoying seeing that many missions you don't even understand. Maybe diffrent languages should have separate sections on the DYOM site?

 

Honestly, this is currently the biggest thing that pisses me off about DYOM.

[Kratos2000]

Why are there that many Spanish missions on the DYOM site anyways? It's not that I don't like Spanish (love that language), but it gets quite annoying seeing that many missions you don't even understand. Maybe diffrent languages should have separate sections on the DYOM site?

 

Honestly, this is currently the biggest thing that pisses me off about DYOM.

I only agree for the last part, but I do not agree about the new section, giving them a special place would just expand the Spanish-only speaking community there and will only tolerate it.

[KENY1RAY2]

And how can you not hate newbs?

Because you all where newbies for us once upon a time.

 

But believe me, soon there will be a opportunity to fix this. But then, once again, it's also in your hands. Please have a bit more patience (we know we ask a lot of patience from the best DYOM designers, but it all takes a lot of time and we have also a fulltime job/university next to it...)

 

We are desperately in need of some great tutorials. We would be grateful when you, and others who are as advanced as you, want to make them.

Dutchy3010 wanted to ask something without discomfort. Could I do dyoma tutorials in Spanish? So just getting people could learn faster and join the community dyom.

No. Please no.

 

Teach them English and it will make everything simplier for us.

All right! All right! I will not do anything. I did not know that discriminate against those who speak Spanish.

[Gorgonit]

You hate spanish, you hate me

[Mati]

And how can you not hate newbs?

Because you all where newbies for us once upon a time.

 

But believe me, soon there will be a opportunity to fix this. But then, once again, it's also in your hands. Please have a bit more patience (we know we ask a lot of patience from the best DYOM designers, but it all takes a lot of time and we have also a fulltime job/university next to it...)

 

We are desperately in need of some great tutorials. We would be grateful when you, and others who are as advanced as you, want to make them.

Dutchy3010 wanted to ask something without discomfort. Could I do dyoma tutorials in Spanish? So just getting people could learn faster and join the community dyom.

No. Please no.

 

Teach them English and it will make everything simplier for us.

All right! All right! I will not do anything. I did not know that discriminate against those who speak Spanish.

Say what? The best thing about DYOM is that it's community based and compatible with every SA install (without mods ), plus it should be understood by most people, so it's obvious they're doing it in English.

 

Stick that discrimination up your... somewhere else. What you said makes no sense.

 

 

[Dutchy3010]

We don't discriminate people who speak Spanish, we support only English for two reasons: 1) we don't speak Spanish ourselves (which means we can't check what someone said) and 2) English is the language that is spoken by most people (and which is supported on this forum).

 

PatrickW and I are both Dutch, we don't use that language either.

 

Please leave this subject (or create another topic for this).

[alucardiff]

Both Mati and Rytuklis are right, I used to be mad when new people came in and acted like they've been around 4 years, but like Mati said "newbies always get bashed by veterans around here", and I simply DON'T get it. Fine, you're been a fan of DYOM for 3 years but don't be full of yourself.

Now, about newbies with sh*t missions.. they make me go FUBAR, seriously. Is it THAT hard to just edit your motherf*cking cutscenes and remove grammar mistakes, JESUS? I swear to god if a few more guys with sh*t grammar post more missionpacks I WILL make a goddamn "English for Dummies" thread.

[guib]

Why are there that many Spanish missions on the DYOM site anyways? It's not that I don't like Spanish (love that language), but it gets quite annoying seeing that many missions you don't even understand. Maybe diffrent languages should have separate sections on the DYOM site?

 

Honestly, this is currently the biggest thing that pisses me off about DYOM.

I agree 100%, I say you just edit the DYOM Mission site, and say: ''please, make your missions in english'' . That would be so much easier for all of us, I mean like 40% of all missions is spanish!! It is stupid, and also my biggest thing that pisses me of too, the only reason why people don't go play good missions is because people can't find normal ENGLISH missions!

 

anyway, ontopic: Rytuklis, get over your whining about noobs, ignore them or give them feedback...

[Stuntzman]

Yeah, I don't understand why do they upload mission that aren't English.

If you're not registered on the forums, what's the point? Who are you making these missions for?

[Dutchy3010]

There are lots of people downloading missions from the DYOM website, without registering on this forum.

[Doublepulse]

 

Now, about newbies with sh*t missions.. they make me go FUBAR, seriously. Is it THAT hard to just edit your motherf*cking cutscenes and remove grammar mistakes, JESUS? I swear to god if a few more guys with sh*t grammar post more missionpacks I WILL make a goddamn "English for Dummies" thread.

 

 

Ehh I would say it is 50/50 on how easy it his to actually edit your grammar mistakes. But it is true.. It is a lot easier than before. Before v6 if we edit any objectives the text was deleted. Now it is not.

 

One of the main reasons for missing letters and bad grammar is because DYOM does not recognize the speed of one's typing. If you type to fast, you will miss a lot of characters. Only real way to prevent that at the moment is to just slow down with your typing. Using Notepad++ is the easiest way to edit your text.

 

 

Besides grammar mistakes, is there any other reasons why a mission is a "sh*t" mission?

[General Scrotum]

Wow... You are talking about DYOM like if it's your whole life... Beeing harsh on new users might be an easier way to make them understand, but there are also more chances they will simply leave thinking 'What a bunch of morons. They expect us to do top quality sh*t missions.' And by the way you say, every new comers are noobs who need a whole class to know how to design with DYOM. Look at my first missions pack, a mission pack I did without any practice: Chronicles of Secronom. Tell me if these are noob/sh*t/etc. missions. No matter your answer, we were all newbs at one point so don't try to act like you weren't. Some of them might not be very skilled in English, but that's not a reason to be a 'Grammar Nazi' which you asked me not to be in one of your mission packs' threads. No one is perfect in English, even you, so stop beeing harsh on their grammar when yours is not perfect too. Not even I is a perfect English writer. Seriously, if you can't stand seeing new users making mission packs, I have a few tips for you: don't bother going to read the thread and f*cking ignore new users instead of acting as a big boy who's expecting top notch missions.

 

Also, another thing that might cause the fall of DYOM Community: the spam when our two local PBM's come back. Remember what PatrickW said? Pointing out someone else is a PBM even if you are right might deserves you a temp-ban, at the worst a full one. Instead of f*cking spamming the thread with eight freaking pages of 'OMG! You're TonyCJ... Your cover is blown, gtfo bitch!', just report him for f*ck's sack and shut it up. For references, you can check old thread still available to see for normal users and I am also refering to threads like the last one that you guys spammed eight pages long. Only mods and admins can see it (http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=484121) and I believe it's a good thing because most of you acted like total morons and the like. I could also make up a list of all what you did in this thread.

 

First way makes the new comers get away and second way makes you come closer to punishment. That's all I had to say, for now...

 

EDIT: And by the way, it seems that everytime an user gets inactive for a few days or doesn't post any updates about his/her mission pack, his/her mission pack is cancelled or we won't hear from him/her ever again. Seriously, some users can't be here 24/7 and we don't have all the same type of behavior as designers. Some prefer to get away a while and release a bunch of missions all together while others prefer to stick with the community and release a mission pack when they can.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Secronom President

[Nitesh002]

EDIT: And by the way, it seems that everytime an user gets inactive for a few days or doesn't post any updates about his/her mission pack, his/her mission pack is cancelled or we won't hear from him/her ever again. Seriously, some users can't be here 24/7 and we don't have all the same type of behavior as designers. Some prefer to get away a while and release a bunch of missions all together while others prefer to stick with the community and release a mission pack when they can.

You have exactly read my mind. There might be no updates because of a number of reasons, and someone just comes in and say "You have already abandoned your mission pack." From my personal experience, I have not updated my mission pack 'Hitman' for about a week now, but that doesn't mean I have abandoned it. Its just that I don't get time to make missions because of othe issues. Then, there might be a reason of internet connection or just having no ideas on how to continue on the mission pack. These can also be the case of leaving the mission pack for a while.

 

And also about the return of the PBM, I really don't believe that every new member is a PBM. So as SP said, you can just report if you see any clue that the member is a PBM. Because it might turn out that the new member may not be a PBM, and then if we start accusing them, then its most likely, they are not likely to return to the forums again.

 

Then about newbie's making bad mission. Its just that new members are most likely going to make bad missions, but instead of being VERY harsh to them you can just give a few tips to them on how they can make their missions better. Thats the only way we will get more users. And, of course, if you don't want to play their missions, then don't comment on it. Their story in the topic may not look that original and creative, but who knows, the story may turn out good. When I joined the forums, very few used to comment on my first mission pack GTA SA 2 but atleast there were no harsh comments on it.

 

And this goes to the new members, if you see someone spamming your topics with useless comments like "I have already seen so many of these mission packs so I am not playing it" or "The missions are just full of nothing" then its better to just ignore them. Do not start a war by replyng to such comments. But if someone gives you constructive comments like "Your missions are not that good, but you can do x,y and z to make them better." Then ALWAYS TRY YOUR BEST TO FOLLOW them.

 

Let's try our best to make DYOM a better community for everyone by respecting each others view.