Definition of sanity

[Gundog]

I've been asking myself this question for years. Am I normal? Am I sane? What do the odd thoughts I'm having mean?

 

Everything "wrong" with this world can be related to one's mental well being, and I think that defining normal can't be summed up in few words. I'm sure everyone pondered about this at least once.

 

I don't consider myself as normal. Not really. I've always been distanced from people, by my own choosing. Am I insane for preferring solitude to socializing? Am I insane for not fearing death as most people see it as the worst fear imaginable?

 

I don't want you guys to give me the textbook definition of sanity, but rather, discuss it. What do you deem as normal?

 

Discuss.

 

[Sanjeem]

I was on to something and I always wonder about this, but I really can't find the words I'm looking for, Sanity I beleive is different from everyone's perspective.

[d00d]

Well sanity has lost a lot of meaning over the past few decades. Don't like a genre of music? You must be insane. Don't like Indian food? Dude how could you not like Indian food, are you insane?

 

Lets get it straight - insanity is defined as characteristics that are outside of the "norms" in mental methods or behaviours. There isn't any fraying on the definition, the problem is that insanity is defined by society. It doesn't change what it means, but your perception on insanity depends on your perspective.

 

In certain cultures, its not unheard of to punish a female (death is relatively common) for being the victim of rape. The reasoning may make some sense, but if you look at the start event and the outcome, any Westerner would be shocked and wouldn't be able to establish a logical thought pattern. However this is something that a leader of some sort has deemed appropriate. Two very different schools of thought, where each would define the other as insane.

[Gundog]

Yes, I agree with you completely, d00d.

 

Although, I didn't think about the differences between social rituals when I started the topic. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

I'm more interested in sanity of one individual. I know everyone is different. What makes a normal brain tick?

 

I'm not socially retarded, I'm simply much more different than my peers. And I constantly annoy myself with trivial philosophical questions such as these because of how much different we really are.

 

You can try disecting your own actions and thoughts to find the answers I seek. Not just me, probably yourself as well. For example, each poster could tell us something about themselves which they don't really find normal, or out of place.

 

I sometimes feel relieved when I find out some people do sh*t I do as well.

 

As I stated in my starting post, I'm an oddball, very much so. I love being alone, with my thoughts. I never really knew why, but I get easily irritated around people, especially people of lesser intelligence. I don't know why. I mean, I try not to, but f*ck it. I guess that's how my mind wants to work.

 

Despite my social awkwardness, I'm popular. Everyone at school likes me, except my ex girlfriends (Whom I bored to death with idiocy such as this), and I simply don't understand why.

 

Well, I've started to digress. Your thoughts?

[d00d]

I prefer being alone too. Not a "forever alone" but I like the solitude because it gives me time to think and compose myself. I like the odd night out too - go for a drink after work, hit the clubs and play rugby. But I value my time alone more than I do with my mates.

 

Everyone has oddities, but no one openly admits them. I frequent places like 4chan and there, while its a decadent pit of sh*t, its a place of relative anonymity and honesty. When someone posts something like "am I the only one who", you realise there are others who share it. Ranging from the reasonable to the down right weird.

 

Here's one of my trivial thoughts - how do people "see" colour? How do I know the colour spectrum I see is synchronized to the one you see? Blue is blue, sure. But when I see my blue, how do I know you're not seeing my green (which you've known all your life to be blue)?

[blitz]

Oh my god we have the same exact way of thinking.

I always ask myself the last paragraph. I guess it's one of those questions we'll never be able to find out.

 

I'm not a complete loner of some sort, I enjoy spending time with my friends, especially my best friend because she goes to a different school and lives far away, therefore I see her scarcely.

 

When I'm alone I get time to think, reflect on my day, and brainstorm. It's like two different worlds, both of which I enjoy equally.

[fgcarva1]

I believe "normal" is a standard of society. Different societies have different senses of what "normal" is. I believe that in the "Western" society of the 21st century is just following the trends. The patterns of society. Iagree with d00d's opinion as well.

[Panz]

The thing is, everyone is different. No one lives life the same as someone else. Maybe similarly, yes, but I don't even know what to think of the word "normal". What some people deem normal, I deem boring. Does that make me abnormal? It's all so complicated.

 

And yeah, I, too, like being alone with my thoughts.

[Toup]

I think everyone has this moment when he keeps making questions to himself.

 

"Am I normal?"

 

Just the other day I was hearing some music on the bus, alone, and I start thinking to myself:

 

"Why don't I just join my friends?"

 

"Why do I prefer to be alone, and often think the way the others think is not right and childish?"

 

"Why am I the only one among my friends listening to Rock?"

 

"Am I sane?"

 

"Maybe I'm just thinking I'm not normal to make the others think I'm sad ( I don't know the right word in english ) and take that as an advantage for me."

 

I hope you get my point, IMHO we think we're sane when we are perfectly normal. It's hard to express myself as I don't speak english, hope you have understood.

[Icarus]

I think normal is one of those things that can never really be defined with an exact set of words, because normal changes from culture-to-culture and from person-to-person. To give a scientific example: people who are lactose intolerant might not be considering normal because they cannot drink milk and enjoy dairy products, but it's actually a genetic mutation that allows certain people to properly break down lactose. So who in this case is normal: the person who has the genetic mutation or the person who cannot enjoy dairy? It depends on what one would define as being normal.

 

As for sanity and such, I would go with the general impression I got from the topic so far and that it is highly dependent upon the culture encountered; the masses would decide what is "normal." For example, if you decide to go out and butcher an entire family and say you didn't know any better, one would likely deem you to be insane, because our system of values from the majority of people in our society teach us that murder is wrong and from a young age, you are also taught to differentiate between right and wrong. If, on the other hand, we taught people that murder was perfectly acceptable (i.e. it did not need to be justified under any circumstance) and this were to be the collective belief of society, then not killing anyone would likely be deemed insane, although one would have to ask how long a society would last if you could just murder anyone and everyone.

 

Concerning personal thoughts, I don't want to go too far into this, but I'm sure most of us have thought at least once about killing someone. I think what differentiates between normal and being off-base in this case is if you can keep your thoughts from becoming a reality (i.e. differentiating between fantasy and reality). Of course, one should only keep their thoughts from becoming a reality if the actions of your thoughts would contravene social normals as discussed above. If you think about how to get promoted at work, then act on that... just don't kill anyone.

 

Anyways, that's my non-sensical point-of-view.

[Gundog]

 

Here's one of my trivial thoughts - how do people "see" colour? How do I know the colour spectrum I see is synchronized to the one you see? Blue is blue, sure. But when I see my blue, how do I know you're not seeing my green (which you've known all your life to be blue)?

Here's a fun fact. Did you know that the variety of a person's color spectrum can depend on his native language?

 

For instance, there's and infinite amount of colours in the colour spectrum, because every color can be combined with another color, and that combination with another combination, and so on...

 

Take the color white for example. You have a massive amount of shades of white. Cream, Ivory, Bone, Eggshell, Snow... Some languages don't have words for these shades, and therefore, the people whose language doesn't contain the names of the shades can't see them.

 

English-speaking people can relate the names of the shades to the things they're named after, and can clearly see the difference, while tribal, or some other primitive civilizations see all these as pure white.

 

Everyone who has the basic understanding of the english language, and actually read this post will know the difference between Cream, Ivory, Eggshell and Snow white. You're welcome.

 

As for sanity, I'd like to write a sh*tload now, but I really have to study, so when I get some free time, I'll read your posts and comment.

 

Keep this going, I'm interested in what you have to say. Especially Typhus, if he stumbles upon this topic.

[Saggy]

Here's one of my trivial thoughts - how do people "see" colour? How do I know the colour spectrum I see is synchronized to the one you see? Blue is blue, sure. But when I see my blue, how do I know you're not seeing my green (which you've known all your life to be blue)?

Here's a fun fact. Did you know that the variety of a person's color spectrum can depend on his native language?

 

For instance, there's and infinite amount of colours in the colour spectrum, because every color can be combined with another color, and that combination with another combination, and so on...

 

Take the color white for example. You have a massive amount of shades of white. Cream, Ivory, Bone, Eggshell, Snow... Some languages don't have words for these shades, and therefore, the people whose language doesn't contain the names of the shades can't see them.

 

English-speaking people can relate the names of the shades to the things they're named after, and can clearly see the difference, while tribal, or some other primitive civilizations see all these as pure white.

 

Everyone who has the basic understanding of the english language, and actually read this post will know the difference between Cream, Ivory, Eggshell and Snow white. You're welcome.

 

As for sanity, I'd like to write a sh*tload now, but I really have to study, so when I get some free time, I'll read your posts and comment.

 

Keep this going, I'm interested in what you have to say. Especially Typhus, if he stumbles upon this topic.

Isn't that more a product of them not understanding what Cream, Ivory and Snow is? If we're talking about primitive people here it's unlikely they'll interact with the same types of things we do, so no wonder they don't know what we mean when we say "cream" white, they might not even make cream, or use a different process, not even to mention that these are objects they may have different words for if they even have the same objects.

 

Let's take for example "eggshell white", "bone white" and I'll throw in my own that I think a primitive and tribal culture would know, "animal skin white". The culture might have a different language structure entirely, and so "eggshell" might be a totally different word as is "animal skin white", and there might not even be a word for the color white--afterall when is the last time you saw anything brilliantly white in the places primitive and tribal cultures live. If they speak of shades, instead of it being related to a shade of white, they might just say, "The color of an animal skin," "The color of this tree bark," and so on and so forth. Or perhaps "baby teeth white" since that's probably the one place you're going to find anything brilliantly white in those living conditions, and they won't be that way for long without a toothbrush.

 

A lot of these cultures do make their own paint though, so I think it would be kind of silly to assume they don't have their own language defining the various shades and colors of it all. The real question is that, if a tribal member took some red pigment ( iron maybe ) and some blue pigment ( cobalt ) and mixed them together to make purple, what would he then call it? It would be kind of silly to imagine they've never done this ( kindergartens figure this out after all ) so they must have language for it.

 

Besides, there are lots of colors in the color spectrum that we have no words for, pretty much because they're either too similar to other colors or there just isn't an existing object to compare that color too. Now days though we can produce so many different colors that when you go out paint sampling the swatch-booklet that holds them is practically filled, and they look so much like each other that people will look at two different tiles for hours. In some ways one has to ask the usefulness of a culture that separates between brilliant white color and white that's just a little bit duller, because even in this culture for some people white is just white.

 

 

Anyway, I don't really want to get into the topic of sanity and thinking one is unique except to say this... Everyone believes they are special and somehow different from the rest of people in some way. That's not to say, "Everyone is different and are their own people," which is true...What I mean is that every one here has sat down and thought, "You know, I don't think I'm the same as everyone else." A lot of people won't admit that since it ties into ideas of narcissism and vanity and what not, but trust me that we all do it--that's what makes people think they're going to be the first man on the mars or the world's greatest rock star and so on and so forth.

 

When it comes to insanity... Those are the type of people that don't really have a clue what it is they really want to do, or who they are, and they just kind of mesh into society and try to be "normal"... They go to college, they meet a woman, they have some kids, but the whole time they're doing it they're doing it because that's what they think they're supposed to do. It's not, "I'm going to be the best dad in the world," it's, "Okay, time to meet a woman, okay she's having kids, okay time to be a dad." Most people that are "insane" ( which is really loosely defined even in the medical community and can kind of cover a broad array of illnesses ) are sociopaths in this way and don't really have the slightest clue of how to actually act or feel, they just take their queues from society. Interestingly enough, a lot of serial killers were sociopathic in this way, and it makes them incredibly difficult to profile or catch like the Greenriver killer--the FBI thought he was some young, jobless loser that has problems with women, and it turns out to be a father and husband who has been working the same job for the last 20 years who everyone would see as the "normal" guy.

 

When it comes to being normal though, I really think that "normal" is actually a definition that's mixed up with convention, and what seems to be the most popular, most successful convention at the particular time. See, most people have similar goals and aspirations in life even though we're all unique, and so when we've grown up we develop an idea of what we're supposed to do to reach those goals. Graduate from school, then college, get a job, meet a woman, have some kids, have some grand kids, grow old, etc. These are the types of things that "most" of society wants, and it's the path that is generally the most successful with the least amount of work to get there, so it starts being seen as the best way to go about it, it's repeated a lot, and pretty soon we see this as "normal".

 

When someone breaks out of that convention, it starts to become abnormal. Maybe they even have the same general success and accomplish the same general things, but because they went about it apart from the majority-convention it's not seen as the "normal" way to do it. So for example, when instead a person drops out of high school and starts preforming and makes it big and famous, they might actually have the same basic successes as a man that went to school and then made a bunch of money in the business world, but because the entertainers went about it is so risky and so unlikely to ever go anywhere most people don't do that, and so they see this as "abnormal".

 

In truth a lot of the unconventional lifestyles people consider "abnormal" are shared amongst a large population, so I don't think it really has so much to do with what the majority is doing... After all the majority kind of changes depending on where you're at. I just think the idea of "normal" is kind of shaped by where you're growing up, and what the general aspirations of the people in that area are and the best way to go about it. In a lot of areas you might find that selling crack rock at the age of 15 the "normal" option for escaping the area you grew up, whereas for most in a middle-to-upper class lifestyle the same could be said for going to school, yet in each other's view that is seen as the thing that is harder, that is less likely to pan out as successful.

[Mr White0161]

Some call me an Asshole (which I am but don't hold that against me) but I personally don't believe there is such a thing as being "Normal". Like what is normal? That is the question being asked here, but define being normal. Is it being the same as your friends or that guy you saw on tv, or maybe that person across the street... Like what is Normal. I think about that quite often when it comes to family. I think about that alot with my family, I come from a loud mouth, obnoxious Italian family. Do I think that they are abnormal? Not at all, do I think that they are normal... absolutely not. Going back to what I said before "what is normal?". In some ways this is a question that can't be answered, actually it can but all answers will differ from one another. Is normal what you think of yourself? Is what you do normal?

 

Everyone is different, we are not all the same. That is why we are Human, we are not all the same, but we are not all that different either.

 

 

One of many Webster's Dictionary definitions for normal: According to an established norm, rule, or principle; conformed to a type, standard, or regular form; performing the proper functions; not abnormal; regular; natural; analogical.

Deviations from the normal type.

 

 

Abnormal definition: abnormal - not normal; not typical or usual or regular or conforming to a norm; "abnormal powers of concentration"; "abnormal amounts of rain"; "abnormal circumstances"; "an abnormal interest in food"

 

 

Take what you want from this, this is just my two cents so read it or weep.

[blitz]

No, I believe that when someone refers to normality they are talking about average. It is true, there is no exact definition for normal and if you asked me 'what is normal' then I'd struggle looking for a decent, detailed answer.

 

By average I mean that a person does what most people do, some habits or ways of thinking and living. Some people, choose not to be normal and enjoy living in their own creative way.

[.2D]

Shameless bump.

 

I'm completely with what d00d first said. Over time, the term insanity or the term crazy have lost a lot of meaning. But then again, what's insane? What's normal? Where's the line drawn between sane and insane, and how does that line get there? Everyone has their own definition of someone who is crazy, and they all have their own definition of what's considered "Normal" behavior. Obviously there's some sort of line one can cross from being perfectly normal and crazy, to the point where the way they act is completely abnormal. But once again, what's normal, and what's crazy? Where's the line drawn? Because once again, everyone has their own definition of what's considered to be "normal" behavior.

 

As Blitz said, you could simply ask anyone, "what's normal?" And they'd struggle to give you an answer, and yet they would still have a clear way of telling what's sane and what's insane come the time. They wont be able to answer your question, but if they see someone acting abnormally, they could just as easily say, "That guy's insane!"

 

But again, everyone has their own definition depending on how their mind works. Like, someone who is genuinely insane, would see their actions as completely normal, whereas a sane person would think they were absolutely crazy, and that they're a perfectly normal human being.

 

But hey, maybe I'm rambling and none of that made sense, it's late. Just thought I'd throw someone out there because the way the mind works and questions such as "What's normal/insane?" have always deeply interested me.

[fireguy109]

 

"...you're thinking I'm psycho."

I gathered what the word meant. I hated the sound of it at once. It opened up a world I had not known existed- "mad" or "crazy" or "a screw loose", those were the familiar words. "Psycho" had a sudden mental-ward reality about it, a systematic, diagnostic sound. It was as though Leper had learned it while in captivity, far from Devon or Vermont or any experience we had in common, as though it were in Japanese.

Similarly, the words "idiot" and such seem to have become simple insults in today's society. "Idiot" actually refers to someone with profound mental retardation, with a brain age (maturity/capacity) less than three years.

 

Off topic I know, but something you said made it spring to mind.

[Toup]

Shameless bump.

 

I'm completely with what d00d first said. Over time, the term insanity or the term crazy have lost a lot of meaning. But then again, what's insane? What's normal? Where's the line drawn between sane and insane, and how does that line get there? Everyone has their own definition of someone who is crazy, and they all have their own definition of what's considered "Normal" behavior. Obviously there's some sort of line one can cross from being perfectly normal and crazy, to the point where the way they act is completely abnormal. But once again, what's normal, and what's crazy? Where's the line drawn? Because once again, everyone has their own definition of what's considered to be "normal" behavior.

 

As Blitz said, you could simply ask anyone, "what's normal?" And they'd struggle to give you an answer, and yet they would still have a clear way of telling what's sane and what's insane come the time. They wont be able to answer your question, but if they see someone acting abnormally, they could just as easily say, "That guy's insane!"

 

But again, everyone has their own definition depending on how their mind works. Like, someone who is genuinely insane, would see their actions as completely normal, whereas a sane person would think they were absolutely crazy, and that they're a perfectly normal human being.

 

But hey, maybe I'm rambling and none of that made sense, it's late. Just thought I'd throw someone out there because the way the mind works and questions such as "What's normal/insane?" have always deeply interested me.

Well, but I guess the truth always stays with majority, no?

[Rhoda]

Everyone here has made the same comments I'd make. Don't you just hate that?

 

No, you've pretty much said what I wanted to say on it so you've saved me a lengthy post. I will add though that the word "insane" has been taken from us and I think it's entered the pop culture collective of words such as "random" and "weird". They've been bastardized to the point that I feel uncomfortable using them as they should be used, and I desperately seek new words to describe what I mean. Depending on who you are, how you're raised and what you're influenced by, insanity has many varying degrees.

 

It also depends how much you're willing to take artistic expression into account. Even here in D&D and WD there are some posts that just make me go "woah" and immediately think they've come from a brain wired differently to mine. Perhaps not to a degree where I'd call them insane, but when I think of authors, musicians, comedians, actors and artists that have a lot of stigma attached for the content of their work, it makes me wonder where the line should be drawn.

 

Just because their work is borderline narcissistic, neurotic, sickening, unsettling and generally unacceptable, is that a judge of their character? Are they really like that? Should we judge them on their work rather than who they are as a person? Insanity definitions (to me at least) often lead to these tangents.

[Claude4Catalina]

expanding the Craig's last point, I'm gonna use Odd Future Wolf Gang as a case in point, specifically Tyler, The Creator.

 

almost every track of his will reference rape, death or drugs, more often than not, all three. but hearing them; you know he's not taking himself seriously. like Wu Tang, Tyler doesn't stand at girls windows watching them masturbate, nor does he lock them in his basement and rape them. he could have a large women-hating side of him, he makes it obvious that he hates his father, so people like Tyler are intricate because he hasn't grown up in a Mobb Deep-style 'hood, he's really a suburban kid with a lot on his mind.

 

but this applies to anyone, because go us to be considered "insane", we'd have to display signs of it, and to display those signs, something would have to trigger it. I'm pretty useless when it comes to brain neurons and how it's wired, so excuse me for seeming a little bit off the beaten path.

[blitz]

"...you're thinking I'm psycho."

I gathered what the word meant. I hated the sound of it at once. It opened up a world I had not known existed- "mad" or "crazy" or "a screw loose", those were the familiar words. "Psycho" had a sudden mental-ward reality about it, a systematic, diagnostic sound. It was as though Leper had learned it while in captivity, far from Devon or Vermont or any experience we had in common, as though it were in Japanese.

Similarly, the words "idiot" and such seem to have become simple insults in today's society. "Idiot" actually refers to someone with profound mental retardation, with a brain age (maturity/capacity) less than three years.

 

 

Still, people call other retarded and if you think about it, it's disrespectful and mean because a person who is 'retarded' has a mental disability.

 

Everyone has their own definition of sanity, you could ask me and a homeless bum living on the streets and our definitions would completely differ.

[A J]

Interesting discussion to read, no need for people to discuss the semantics of the word though.

 

Personally, I share these feelings with a few of you that being alone is sometimes more enjoyable than being with others, I often don't have much choice, living out in the middle of no where though.

 

This whole insanity thing though, its really too subjective to clearly define I think. Unless some one starts eating their own crap and doesnt think twice about it, I think it would be fair to declare that person insane.

 

I actually think sanity, happiness and intelligience are closely connected, I don't think stupid, often feel sadness or suffer insanity, whilst extremely intelligient people, may often go insane or develope depression.... sorry for digressing....

[CheesyJ]

I would define it as simply acting in a manner that everyone else does. That may sound strange, but put it this way, I believe that sanity can chang depending on where you are and what your community is like.

 

Over time things have changed and a person who would be regarded as normal now would not have been seen as normal 1000 years ago. It's the exact same if you put it the other way round. A caveman from thousands of years ago would look completely out of place in todays society, but back when he lived, he would have been seen by everyone else that knew him as another standard person.

 

Sanity changes from time to time, and will continue to do so as the world progresses.

[Gundog]

Alright, I think it's time to open myself up here.

 

I am an 18 year old guy. I'm popular, but socially retarded. I have tons of friends, most of which seem to like me. On the other hand, I'm stupid when it comes to interpeople relations.

 

Especially around girls, which is kind of... Well, embarrassing for me. I never knew how to keep a relationship going, especially if it was about to get intimate. Never mind that, though, that's not something I couldn't get past in my head. Turns out I'm quite the opposite when intoxicated.

But lately, the lack of any serious partner in my life led me to sexual confusion, and it's caused me a lot of stress, which I don't need. Also, I'm having troubles sleeping because of it.

 

I deem myself as an intelligent person, and sex never really did have an impact in my life, nor did I have much interest for it either. And no, it's not that insecurity bullsh*t. I just don't understand why something as trivial as pondering my sexual orientation can cause so much distress.

 

Yeah, I've had gay thoughts , even felt aroused at times, but I never thought much of it. After I thought it trough, thoroughly, I found sense in my thoughts. I started thinking I was gay, and it really got me depressed.

 

The thing is, I know I'm straight, and I could get off on a peg-legged crack whore for all I care, I'm not that picky, but then why are those thoughts there? Why is my seemingly intelligent mind conjuring these thoughts up? Is this normal for a guy my age? I mean, I'd rather be a f*cking hermit than be homosexual.

 

And I'm trying to put this in the nicest possible context. I really don't have anything gay people. I simply don't want these thoughts invading my mind.

 

All of this kinda bums me out, but I still deem myself sane, despite this horribly dramatic teen angst.

That's what really got me into starting this topic. I thought I wasn't normal, but now I understand nearly everyone goes trough this, although few share their stories.

 

I'm interested if anyone else here has a mental war story they want to share, if anyone else had difficulties sleeping at night because of thoughts they didn't see fit.