Girlfriend wants new car...

[Waste]

Ok, so here's the deal. I'm trying to help my girlfriend pick a new car.

Being a girl she is picky and it's giving me a headache.

So far we've settled down to getting a Jetta or Passat with the TDI Clean Diesel engine, but she's seems wary that I am being biased because I am a huge VW fan.

So I am coming to you guys of this here vehicle forum to see if you guys can make her feel a bit more comfortable about my choice or show me something that will give us more bang for the buck.

To be exact on what we are looking for, we need a car that gets as much gas mileage as possible, has style, can come fully loaded for at max $27,000 USD, and it CANNOT be a hatchback. (She hates hatchbacks for whatever reason. I love them honestly.)

Any help on this is much appreciated because I'm just going to keep forcing her to get the TDI and be done with it.

[Fozzy Fozborne]

Have you considered the new Focus? That's fully loaded at around 25k and actually a really nice car.

 

You didn't mention transmission choice, but you can get a fully loaded Mitsu Lancer GTS manual for less than 27k or the CVT automatic for slightly over.

[Waste]

Transmission choice is another argument entirely.

I want manual where as she wants automatic.

 

I did look at the vehicles you mentioned but the TDI Clean Diesel gets ~50mpg and those cars get closer to the 30 range.

We spend tons on fuel in our current Pontiac Grand Prix (2008) and want to kinda cut down on what we are paying for fuel a lot.

This is why I kinda came to you guys and asked as google an the shoddy government website haven't been much help.

Most of the info I can find is on the damn Prius and screw that hideously ugly car.

[sivispacem]

If I was buying new or nearly-new and doing under, say, 80,000 miles a year, I'd forget about going diesel. There's just no tangible reason you should go for it unless your making massive savings on fuel over a prolonged period of time. A decent, modern petrol engine will be approaching 50mpg on combined trips- so really not that far from a "clean diesel". Plus, you have a usable power-band and you aren't stuck with one of the most archaic and unrefined series of diesel engine on the commercial market (I've had a pair of A4 Quattro 2.0TDi 170s over the last few years and they're not great if I'm honest). Go for the 2.0TSi or the 1.4TSi, they're probably amongst the best 4-pot petrol motors out there.

[Waste]

Issue though is that about 75% of the miles we will be putting on the car will be city miles.

We live in Shelby Township, Michigan and it's all stop and go up here on my girl's way to work.

The only time the car will see highway miles is when we make trips to see my family in Georgia. (700 miles on the highway.)

 

If even the last info I gave you would still make you say I should stay away from the TDI, could you recommend some alternatives?

I've been looking all day and I'm getting a bit of info overload here.

[sivispacem]

Issue though is that about 75% of the miles we will be putting on the car will be city miles.

We live in Shelby Township, Michigan and it's all stop and go up here on my girl's way to work.

The only time the car will see highway miles is when we make trips to see my family in Georgia. (700 miles on the highway.)

 

If even the last info I gave you would still make you say I should stay away from the TDI, could you recommend some alternatives?

I've been looking all day and I'm getting a bit of info overload here.

Never, ever go for a diesel if you're doing city miles. Most modern diesel engines have a DPF, Diesel Particulate Filter, which is designed to remove soot from the exhaust. However, they only work properly when the engine is run at relatively high load for prolonged periods of time- such as a long-distance motorway session. Otherwise, they become clogged, trigger the engine's limp-home mechanism and cost several thousand to replace or renew. A once-a-month trip on a highway won't be enough to keep it from throwing error messages and prematurely failing...

 

As I said, the best two VW engines on the market at the moment are the 1.4 TSi twincharge motor and the 2.0TFSi. I don't know if the US market got the former, but you definitely got the latter in the Golf GTi, Passat and Jetta. If you were UK based, for £17-18k I'd recommend a decent spec 07-08 up to just-pre-facelift E90 325i M-sport. You'd see very little run-about difference in terms of fuel economy that with a diesel, the alu BMW straight six is a peach of an engine and they're very reasonable over here, even in good nick and high spec, because petrols have become less desirable once everyone decided that diesels are cheaper to run, even though they're not. No idea how that equates on your side of the pond though.

[Lurch]

Aside from a 10 year old Geo Metro, I'm not seeing too many gas engines over here getting 50 mpg.

[Fozzy Fozborne]

From what I hear the Jetta interiors are horrible by modern standards (there's a reason they base ~16.5k). Even the higher-level cars are treated to dark, hard plastic.

 

Do keep in mind that a new Jetta TDI is $3800 more than the comparable Jetta (TDI bases in SE trim plus "13 other luxury features", and this is of course compared to the SE gas version).

 

The Focus is listed as 28/38 MPG. The Lancer is a quite a bit lower at 25/33. I guess I'm jaded against fuel economy because my yearly driving is around 1200 miles and I've racked up less than 2k on my car since I bought it.

 

A Civic is 28/39 with an auto transmission and less than 25k fully loaded (nav, leather, iPod compatibility, and more).

 

Considering diesel is quite a bit more expensive ($.30-$.40/gallon here, anyway. Obviously I don't know what it's like where you live), the value of the diesel engine doesn't even seem worth it.

 

Also, VW lists the TDI as 30/42 MPG. I don't see where you're getting 50 MPG from.

[Black-hawk]

The new mustangs get pretty good mileage.

 

 

the 3.7-liter Mustang is rated at 19 mpg around town and 31 mpg on the open road

 

Just sayin

Edited July 5, 2011 by Black-hawk

[trip]

I have nothing to add other than "Lucky You".

 

My wife(mid 40s) doesn't even have a drivers license. The deal I have with her is: I will buy her whatever car she wants when she gets her license.

 

Aside from that, I am a big VW fan. I would lean towards the Jetta. My little Golf does nothing but city riding and hasn't caused me any troubles since I bought it new in '98.

[Lurch]

IMO, the main plus of a diesel, aside from fuel mileage, is longevity. I've heard of plenty of (older) VW TDI's lasting well past 250k and quite a few lasting over 500k as well, and 1 or 2 going the full mil. If you're the kind of person that keeps a car for years and years til it dies, then it's perfect. Your girlfriend on the other hand sounds like the type that would trade a car in every couple of years.

[sivispacem]

IMO, the main plus of a diesel, aside from fuel mileage, is longevity. I've heard of plenty of (older) VW TDI's lasting well past 250k and quite a few lasting over 500k as well, and 1 or 2 going the full mil. If you're the kind of person that keeps a car for years and years til it dies, then it's perfect. Your girlfriend on the other hand sounds like the type that would trade a car in every couple of years.

New ones don't last well at all. Complex high-pressure direct injection systems work with tolerances so small that something inevitably goes wrong rather quickly. Personally, I think many modern petrol motors are likely to outlast their diesel relatives.

[Lurch]

A reason why I've never been a fan of the newest high-tech wizardry in cars. The old, dumb, simple stuff just works and works forever.

[GTA 360]

Seriously just get the Jetta, you can't go wrong, VW reliability, it's a fast car, good towing car if you want that to, very comfortable, has a bigger boot than the Passat, fuel efficient, and looks really good. I wouldn't bother with any Valxhall bullsh!t, the gearboxes break after about 4 years anyway, seriously, I know of 5 people that live fairly locally that had Valxhalls of around the same age that all had to have new gearboxes. And of someone else that tryed to trade his in and the garage wouldn't accept it at all.

Edited July 6, 2011 by GTA 360

[Lurch]

good towing car if you want that to

What are you going to tow with a Jetta? A canoe or some kayaks? Maybe a Jet ski? I don't see the unibody of one withstanding much more.

[*MURDOC*]

 

good towing car if you want that to

What are you going to tow with a Jetta? A canoe or some kayaks? Maybe a Jet ski? I don't see the unibody of one withstanding much more.

I'd be hesitant to tow much of anything with a FWD car anyway.

 

I mean, unless it's very small.

[GTA 360]

 

good towing car if you want that to

What are you going to tow with a Jetta? A canoe or some kayaks? Maybe a Jet ski? I don't see the unibody of one withstanding much more.

1 and a half tone of sand. Easy, hardly notices it. And trailer tent up to Scotland at 70MPH.

Seriously, why would you think it's not a good towing car?

[Lurch]

 

good towing car if you want that to

What are you going to tow with a Jetta? A canoe or some kayaks? Maybe a Jet ski? I don't see the unibody of one withstanding much more.

1 and a half tone of sand. Easy, hardly notices it. And trailer tent up to Scotland at 70MPH.

Seriously, why would you think it's not a good towing car?

Getting it up to speed is one thing, stopping it is another. If you can do both of those easily, you still don't have the parts that can really take that kind of abuse and something will break prematurely before too long.

[*MURDOC*]

It also depends if you've got trailer-brake too, but even then, anything over about 1.5k seems like it would be really dangerous.

 

The last thing you want to do (especially with thousands of pounds trailing behind you) is take weight off the front wheels, which is even worse in a FWD car.

[Lurch]

Trailers that small won't usually have brakes.

[*MURDOC*]

Trailers that small won't usually have brakes.

I've seen somewhat small trailers with brakes, they were actually made to work better with cars, rather than trucks, but even those recommend a RWD/AWD car.

[Waste]

Ok, well.

Been doing research on VWs and everything else on the market here, but she's giving me a hard time about it all.

She keeps gravitating towards the Chrysler 200. >.<

 

Took her to the local VW dealership here yesterday and I think I may have pushed her back my way a bit.

I made some extra headway on convincing her because the warranties on VWs here are outstanding compared to domestics.

Even the used warranties are killer. (2 year, 24k miles, and it doesn't remove or prorate any existing warranty left on the car. They had a 2009 there with 3 year, 36k total warranty.)

 

Thanks for the opinions and info that everyone has given. It's made me consider other options and ways of making her see things my way.

It's been an uphill battle in an area where if you don't buy domestic, you are the devil.

 

 

[*MURDOC*]

You may know this already, but I'm just putting it out there, Chrysler 200=Sebring.

 

 

For the love of god, keep fighting the VW fight.

 

 

 

 

Or anything else that's not a Sebring at least.

 

Good luck!

[Kevin...]

Ok, well.

Been doing research on VWs and everything else on the market here, but she's giving me a hard time about it all.

She keeps gravitating towards the Chrysler 200. >.<

My sister has a newer Chrysler Sebring. Don't get me wrong, it gets her from point A to point B just fine but it has to be one of the sh*ttiest vehicles ever. Its like riding in a bloated Tupperware container. Its like the body is so much bigger than the interior and the interior is plastic Valhalla. That not even getting into the constant rush of small problems and onslaught of pointless engine codes popping up. Its not a total mess of a car nor is it constantly in the shop but for f*cks sake there are plenty of other cars out there with infinitely better build quality and will provide a better driving experience.

[Waste]

Well, I am finally starting to win.

I got her over her stigma of buying used and convinced her into this one here: http://www.vyletelvw.com/VehicleDetails/ce...s-MI/1145697083

MPG isn't as great as we would want it but we are going to see what we can do so far as aftermarket stuff to try and improve that.

[sivispacem]

 

Well, I am finally starting to win.

I got her over her stigma of buying used and convinced her into this one here: http://www.vyletelvw.com/VehicleDetails/ce...s-MI/1145697083

MPG isn't as great as we would want it but we are going to see what we can do so far as aftermarket stuff to try and improve that.

I drove an older generation V5 powered Golf a while back. For such a weird engine layout (basically a staggered straight-5) it's quite a nice motor- not that dissimilar to the VR6 in the way it behaves. It also makes a great noise, though admittedly not on the restrictive standard exhaust. As for improving MPG, the one thing that will do that above all else is adapting driving styles to suit the torque/power band of the car, and also a little advanced driver tutoring never goes amiss- the courses in the UK teach you to anticipate the behaviour of other vehicles and the suchlike, and to refrain from braking or slowing wherever possible, therefore wasting less fuel.

 

Someone did a turbo kit for the V5 if you fancy having a bit of additional fun, though I think it was basically a modified VR6 bolt-on kit. They also do a V5 supercharger kit which sees something like 225bhp, so about the same as an R32 motor. Though neither of them are going to encourage you to use less fuel...

[Waste]

I'm a really defensive driver and I've been teaching her my ways.

So far as trying to not slow down, that is hard to do here.

The arrogance of some of the drivers in this area is off the charts and a lot of people attempt to force you to move out of their way.

For instance there is a "merging" lane at one intersection on the way to her work where it's meant for turning right into businesses, but people use it to get in front of people and they will force their way over into the main traffic lane without turn signals and/or hauling ass up in front of people and slamming on the brakes to slow down and swerve over.

I actually had some douche driving a Mercedes do that so fast and so dickish that he pushed me off the road on the OPPOSITE side.

Luckily there was no oncoming traffic at the time.

 

[Kevin...]

Well, I am finally starting to win.

I got her over her stigma of buying used and convinced her into this one here: http://www.vyletelvw.com/VehicleDetails/ce...s-MI/1145697083

MPG isn't as great as we would want it but we are going to see what we can do so far as aftermarket stuff to try and improve that.

I drove an older generation V5 powered Golf a while back. For such a weird engine layout (basically a staggered straight-5) it's quite a nice motor- not that dissimilar to the VR6 in the way it behaves. It also makes a great noise, though admittedly not on the restrictive standard exhaust. As for improving MPG, the one thing that will do that above all else is adapting driving styles to suit the torque/power band of the car, and also a little advanced driver tutoring never goes amiss- the courses in the UK teach you to anticipate the behaviour of other vehicles and the suchlike, and to refrain from braking or slowing wherever possible, therefore wasting less fuel.

 

Someone did a turbo kit for the V5 if you fancy having a bit of additional fun, though I think it was basically a modified VR6 bolt-on kit. They also do a V5 supercharger kit which sees something like 225bhp, so about the same as an R32 motor. Though neither of them are going to encourage you to use less fuel...

Don't you think the auto-trans might sh*t bricks at the sight of the extra torque?

[GTA 360]

 

Trailers that small won't usually have brakes.

How the hell do you reckon you know how big our trailer is?

And yes, it's twin axle with braks.

[Lurch]

If it's a trailer that big, it's probably already pushing 1,500 lbs. or so. And you claimed you pulled 3,000 lbs. of rock with it? So towing around 4,500 give or take with it. So 4,500 lbs. with a vehicle that's made to tow nothing? That's about what you basic tacoma or ranger is made to tow, and they're...uh...trucks. When a R&P shoot through the case of the transaxle, don't say I didn't tell you so.