Gangsta story or simple Story like GTA IV

[Official General]

 

Ignore all the ignorant comments mostly made by people who live outside the US. You cant argue with a idiot and some of the members in this forum can be a little whinny at times. 

 

I see nothing wrong with both of these co-existing. Gangs in GTA is just a norm as cars, like the Mob is just a norm like weapons.

 

This topic has turn into a racy mis-informed orgy of arguments based on color and creed! 

@ Long_Haired_Boy

 

You could'nt have said it better with this quote. You have said everything that I would have said and concluded about this particular topic forum in one simple statement. I don't even live in the US, but I've done enough reserach and reading about American organized crime and gangs to know that in reality the two crime groups can, and have co-existed for many, many decades. The true colours of some these guys on here always come out on topics like this.

 

@ Silentype

 

You can't really argue with a bunch of dumb-a** idiots who happen to be racially biased and who also happen not to know anything about the American criminal underworld and how it works. Yeah lets face it, guys on here like DarrinPA and fgcarva1 are only saying this "I prefer italian/russian mob story" crap because they dont wanna play or see a black gangsta protagonist. From what you have written, I can see you clearly know your stuff about American gangland in general. You definitely know your stuff, the other fools on here obviously don't.

 

@ Kwandilibro

 

You know the drill, you know a topic like this comes up, the usual suspects come out to play with their three toys - racism, ignorance and severe lack of knowledge. Throw in a fourth for sheer dumbness.

 

@ Miamivicecity

 

What a very well-thought out and constructive statement. I see your point, even though the so-called black 'gangsta' genre is not your favourite genre of organized crime. I actually agree with you about San Andreas getting lost with their 'gangsta' storyline after CJ leaves Los Santos. After sometime, I so badly wanted to go back to the hood and get back involved with the gangsta stuff, I could'nt be bothered with all the secret agent, Area-51 stuff and flying plane missions - in a way I'll admit Rockstar slightly spoilt SA with all that stuff, even though SA is still my second favourite GTA after Vice City. The other fools on here who seem to never like SA or anything with 'black culture' invloved should learn from you.

 

@ fgcarva1

 

Yeah Kwandilibro is right to ask, and I'm gonna ask you too - just what the f**k are you talking about ? And your comment about street gang members who can't afford guns and so they stab people with spoons ? Do you realise in the USA, that many Black and Hispanic street gangs are more well-armed with much better weapons than the police ?? The Police themesleves will tell you that! Man, you sure are one real dumb p*nk you know that ? You really have no idea what you are talking about, I seriously suggest you just keep your mouth shut and stop embarrassing yourself!

Edited June 26, 2011 by Official General

[mrpain]

San Andreas had one of the worst storylines in any video game. Period.

 

Rockstar's other games, LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption had better stories than any other GTA. Other games such as Mafia 2, the Mass Effect series, Portal 2 and the Half-Life series had some amazing storylines.

 

Now the games that I have mentioned above had some good characters. And you need memorable characters to make a good story in a video game. VC had the best cast of characters and therefore the story was superb. I hated all the characters from SA and the IV era. The only characters I liked from the IV era were Packie McReary and Johnny Klebitz.

 

Final answer, I don't want a gangsta story or a simple story. I want a story that engages me emotinally. I only play video games with a good story.

Quoting myself just in case nobody read it yet. Read it, don't use the excuse 'too long'.

[Silentype]

Official General- I can't say i'm arguing,(if it gets to that point on this subject then I obviously presented something factual that a racist mind can't find fathom, accept or comprehend, thus the end of discussion.) i'm just trying to inform the willing or ignorantly uninformed of things they show themselves to know nothing about.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Silentype

[Diego Delgado]

I wouldn't mind playing as a protag like Dwayne forge, you have a solid story someone who had everything at one point and got hit hard. Having been release from prison earning the motivation to get all of it back is a solid one. But playing some moron like CJ a terrible protag going into the hood, being harrassed by cops, somehow going from street trash to king of San Andreas is just not going to happen.. It doesnt happen, their are some black organized crime groups that do have some power but street gangs is just not possible. All they do is kill each other the majority of the time for flashing rival symbols with their hands lol.

 

Having a black protag isn't an issue, but you have to be realistic about how far your going to reach in a criminal underworld of abunch of street gangs who just shoot each other. The highest you could possibly achieve from that is a Gang leader/lord which is highly unlikely but possible. I suppose the reason Russian/Italian/Albanian/Irish Mob types are more popular towards white collar crime and organization rather then just shooting each other for making different hand symbols or spray paint on walls lol. Its about money and power not just being trash and killing each other for nothing.

[Official General]

I wouldn't mind playing as a protag like Dwayne forge, you have a solid story someone who had everything at one point and got hit hard. Having been release from prison earning the motivation to get all of it back is a solid one. But playing some moron like CJ a terrible protag going into the hood, being harrassed by cops, somehow going from street trash to king of San Andreas is just not going to happen.. It doesnt happen, their are some black organized crime groups that do have some power but street gangs is just not possible. All they do is kill each other the majority of the time for flashing rival symbols with their hands lol.

 

Having a black protag isn't an issue, but you have to be realistic about how far your going to reach in a criminal underworld of abunch of street gangs who just shoot each other. The highest you could possibly achieve from that is a Gang leader/lord which is highly unlikely but possible. I suppose the reason Russian/Italian/Albanian/Irish Mob types are more popular towards white collar crime and organization rather then just shooting each other for making different hand symbols or spray paint on walls lol. Its about money and power not just being trash and killing each other for nothing.

@ Diego Delgado

 

Have you ever seen The Wire ? If you have not then I think you need to watch it. And I also think you need to read the post by Silentype where he list a whole bunch of African-American criminal organizations, past and present are were/are very powerful, highly organized and wealthy. Not all black gangs just go around shooting each other over petty disputes and trivial reasons. The ones that do stuff like that are black street gangs, NOT black criminal organizations. There is a clear difference between the two, but many people like to ignore these differences. They just think anybody that is black and belongs to a gang must automatically be some trigger-happy "street gangsta" or "gangbanger". Black criminal organizations and black street gangs tend to come from the same ghetto background with the same roots, and they will commonly have dealings with each other and be intertwined - but they are NOT always the same thing, and some people need to understand this.

 

By the way, just what do you think was happening with the Irish, Italian and Jewish gangsters of the 1920s and 1930s in the USA before, during and after Prohibition ? They were shooting it out with each other like crazy in their gang wars, just like the Black and Hispanic street gangs do today in the ghettoes of large American cities. These mostly White gangsters were the ones who started using machine guns (Tommy guns) and doing drive-bys in places like Chicago and New York. Whats the difference with what they did and what the Black and Hispanic gangs do ? There is none - those White gangs back then shot each other over turf, sales and petty stuff too. The only point here is that the older, more established criminal groups like the Italian Mafia, Irish Mob and Jewish Mob have acquired so much power and wealth from their illegal activities over the decades that there is no real need for them to engage in gang wars. Very powerful Black and Hispanic gangs only became a phenomenon since the 1970s and 1980s onwards which was not that long ago.

[Diego Delgado]

Lol black criminal organizations are inferior to the current kings of crime Italian, Irish, Russian, Mexican mafias. Not to mention thats not even the point of what im saying at all. I know there are rough patches but 90% of black gangs kill each other for nothing and in RECORD numbers i might add nothing like the prohobition, which lasted 13 years and then they moved on no longer slaughtering each other but even then it was for money and power not dumbsh*t trash flashing signs and wanting to control a street corner.

 

The point is the odds are so stacked against black organizations its almost non-exsistant to become one of the top players in those organizations. Like winning the lottery, possible but being struck by lighting even has a great chance.

[Silentype]

I wouldn't mind playing as a protag like Dwayne forge, you have a solid story someone who had everything at one point and got hit hard. Having been release from prison earning the motivation to get all of it back is a solid one. But playing some moron like CJ a terrible protag going into the hood, being harrassed by cops, somehow going from street trash to king of San Andreas is just not going to happen.. It doesnt happen, their are some black organized crime groups that do have some power but street gangs is just not possible. All they do is kill each other the majority of the time for flashing rival symbols with their hands lol.

 

Having a black protag isn't an issue, but you have to be realistic about how far your going to reach in a criminal underworld of abunch of street gangs who just shoot each other. The highest you could possibly achieve from that is a Gang leader/lord which is highly unlikely but possible. I suppose the reason Russian/Italian/Albanian/Irish Mob types are more popular towards white collar crime and organization rather then just shooting each other for making different hand symbols or spray paint on walls lol. Its about money and power not just being trash and killing each other for nothing.

Well that's kind of the point a few of the people are trying to make,(including myself) not every black or latino criminal is a gangbanger and even if R* did do another black or latino protag in a street gang they definitely have much room to improve upon the way they depicted the inner workings of a street gang in gta sa.(the same, though, can be said for all the previous gtas with a protag in whatever criminal group they were in.)

[Official General]

 

Lol black criminal organizations are inferior to the current kings of crime Italian, Irish, Russian, Mexican mafias. Not to mention thats not even the point of what im saying at all. I know there are rough patches but 90% of black gangs kill each other for nothing and in RECORD numbers i might add nothing like the prohobition, which lasted 13 years and then they moved on no longer slaughtering each other but even then it was for money and power not dumbsh*t trash flashing signs and wanting to control a street corner.

 

The point is the odds are so stacked against black organizations its almost non-exsistant to become one of the top players in those organizations. Like winning the lottery, possible but being struck by lighting even has a great chance.

Not only have you totally missed my point, you have veered off to another entirely different argument. I did not say that Black organized crime in the USA was superior or even on the same levels to any of those other criminal groups you mentioned (Italian, Irish, Russian, Mexican etc). My point was that people need to differentiate between black street gangs and black criminal organizations. You have just made my point by talking about black gangs and the way they use gang signs and control street corners - not all black gangs operate that way, thats my point that is all.

 

But I do like your Dwayne Forge idea I will add, that is something that would make sense.

[Diego Delgado]

Well their are a few that do want to make something of themselfs ill admit, but your right most do consider them all just morons a lot of them are but not all lol.

 

And thx lol i thought about him being a protag for the next one eh but then again you have the option to kill him aswell so i doubt it.

[Silentype]

 

Lol black criminal organizations are inferior to the current kings of crime Italian, Irish, Russian, Mexican mafias. Not to mention thats not even the point of what im saying at all. I know there are rough patches but 90% of black gangs kill each other for nothing and in RECORD numbers i might add nothing like the prohobition, which lasted 13 years and then they moved on no longer slaughtering each other but even then it was for money and power not dumbsh*t trash flashing signs and wanting to control a street corner.

 

The point is the odds are so stacked against black organizations its almost non-exsistant to become one of the top players in those organizations. Like winning the lottery, possible but being struck by lighting even has a great chance.

Inferior in terms of political influence, and certain criminal activities yeah,in most cases but as for engaging in an underworld war I doubt Italian, Irish, probably russians and mexicans though would want to go there(especially with someone like a larry hoover or a jeff fort who had 10s of 1000s of underlings, much more than all the made guys in america combined.), if they did they'd still be in control of black neighborhoods. Btw, the mexican mafia is at war with black gangs, D.C. Blacks, and the black guerilla family, in the current time, and have yet to win.(despite the fact, that the black gangs have problems with each other on top of the mexican mafia and other groups. They're fighting everybody and themselves and still aren't wiped out, so inferior yes & no.)

[Diego Delgado]

Yeah but that wasnt the Mexican mafia i was refering to lol im refering to the many cartels across the border but yeah italians have to work to become a made man so they have less in numbers but then again they have almost unlimited funding by now lol and you could buy however many hired guns it takes to combat lol

[Silentype]

 

Yeah but that wasnt the Mexican mafia i was refering to lol im refering to the many cartels across the border but yeah italians have to work to become a made man so they have less in numbers but then again they have almost unlimited funding by now lol and you could buy however many hired guns it takes to combat lol

It's yet to be seen,and honestly would've been done already if they were on top of the game on the level that you think they are. but as I recall they lost control over black neighborhoods, enough said.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Silentype

[Diego Delgado]

Well at this point the italians if thats who your saying lost control wouldn't need it over them anyway. Their cant be much money to be made or they would control it only white collar crime now days other then the cartels theyve got enough guns and soldiers to fill several armies lol.

[Silentype]

 

Well at this point the italians if thats who your saying lost control wouldn't need it over them anyway. Their cant be much money to be made or they would control it only white collar crime now days other then the cartels theyve got enough guns and soldiers to fill several armies lol.

I need some of the drugs your on.

 

On a side note you have no facts to back up your wishful thinking, I have a fact for you though italian american criminals lost control over black neighborhoods(keyword lost, and don't kid yourself if there wasn't money to be made dutch schultz and sam giancana and others would've never try to control crime in these areas.)

 

Another fyi for you(cause you obviously don't know) black gangs/criminal organizations(particularly in Chicago) are involved in white collar crime amongst other things.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Silentype

[Diego Delgado]

Lol i dont have facts.. You just listed 2 guys that have been dead for 30 years + one of them was whacked by the Commision itself. If their was money to be made there CURRENTLY they would take it, all it is now is abunch of crackheads and low rate drug dealers. Also I said the Mafia was into mostly white collar crime, their isnt any white collar crime in the poor trash ghettos (therefore no reason or need to control them). Also the two guys that you listed were both in eras of drugs taking off one in a Heroin perioud and the other in the era of Cocaine so during those time hoods were good distribution points. Currently they arent worth anything and probably wont be again.

[Ash_735]

I'd love a full game to be about Bikers gangs, like The Lost and Damned but longer and more connecting with other gangs, anyone here seen Sons of Anarchy? Kind of like that, having to negociate with other gangs, bar fights, doing stuff on the side for personal benefit and keeping it a secret from the brothers, etc. TLAD was just a taste of a small Biker Gang near their end, Imagine a full storyline set somewhere like Los Santos/Las Venturas with a powerful charter of a biker gang.

[Kwandilibro]

@Diego Delgado, you have done nothing but illustrate your obvious ignorance and talk out of your ass. Please, spare us.

 

Sometimes I wonder why the mods keep these topics open when they always have the same outcome. A bunch of ignoramuses talking out of their asses and spewing nonsense around, convinced that it's fact based.

[Silentype]

 

Lol i dont have facts.. You just listed 2 guys that have been dead for 30 years + one of them was whacked by the Commision itself. If their was money to be made there CURRENTLY they would take it, all it is now is abunch of crackheads and low rate drug dealers. Also I said the Mafia was into mostly white collar crime, their isnt any white collar crime in the poor trash ghettos (therefore no reason or need to control them). Also the two guys that you listed were both in eras of drugs taking off one in a Heroin perioud and the other in the era of Cocaine so during those time hoods were good distribution points. Currently they arent worth anything and probably wont be again.

You should LOL yourself because you apparently have not the slightest clue, and again no you don't have facts, you have wild speculation that can also be considered whishful thinking.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Silentype

[Diego Delgado]

Your an ass considering thats your responce f*ck off really.

[Ryan]

Alright, enough of this little ego war. Take it to PM's please or warnings will be handed out.

[Algonquin Assassin]

@ Miamivicecity

 

What a very well-thought out and constructive statement. I see your point, even though the so-called black 'gangsta' genre is not your favourite genre of organized crime. I actually agree with you about San Andreas getting lost with their 'gangsta' storyline after CJ leaves Los Santos. After sometime, I so badly wanted to go back to the hood and get back involved with the gangsta stuff, I could'nt be bothered with all the secret agent, Area-51 stuff and flying plane missions - in a way I'll admit Rockstar slightly spoilt SA with all that stuff, even though SA is still my second favourite GTA after Vice City. The other fools on here who seem to never like SA or anything with 'black culture' invloved should learn from you.

 

 

Thanks dude. Like I said I'm not really much of a fan of the genre, but I think it would be interesting if R* made a proper story surrounding hood life.

 

Ironically I found the start of SA more interesting compared to the rest.

[TrevorSpeed914]

@ Miamivicecity

 

What a very well-thought out and constructive statement. I see your point, even though the so-called black 'gangsta' genre is not your favourite genre of organized crime. I actually agree with you about San Andreas getting lost with their 'gangsta' storyline after CJ leaves Los Santos. After sometime, I so badly wanted to go back to the hood and get back involved with the gangsta stuff, I could'nt be bothered with all the secret agent, Area-51 stuff and flying plane missions - in a way I'll admit Rockstar slightly spoilt SA with all that stuff, even though SA is still my second favourite GTA after Vice City. The other fools on here who seem to never like SA or anything with 'black culture' invloved should learn from you.

 

 

Thanks dude. Like I said I'm not really much of a fan of the genre, but I think it would be interesting if R* made a proper story surrounding hood life.

 

Ironically I found the start of SA more interesting compared to the rest.

Agreed. It didn't take long for the gangster story line to fizzle out, either.

[Jesus Pineda]

i think it should be more of a Mexican Cartel story mode because they seriously kill in broad daylight. you can look it up on youtube if you want lol. but yeah and it should also be like red dead redemption it should be in Mexico AND in USA (California) because there is alot of drug trafficing and senceless killing in the San Diego/Mexican area thats my opinion i hope they go along with it

[Long_Haired_Boy]

I have to agree, those Mexicans cartels are ruthless. I seen a video a while back of a school teacher singing to her elementary students to keep them calm while a gun fight was occurring outside their classroom.

 

I would like to be able to choose how I will like to control my organization. Like either make them militant and ruthless gang bangers, or strategic back-stabbing mobsters.

 

Each has its negatives and positives.

[Official General]

 

Lol i dont have facts.. You just listed 2 guys that have been dead for 30 years + one of them was whacked by the Commision itself. If their was money to be made there CURRENTLY they would take it, all it is now is abunch of crackheads and low rate drug dealers. Also I said the Mafia was into mostly white collar crime, their isnt any white collar crime in the poor trash ghettos (therefore no reason or need to control them). Also the two guys that you listed were both in eras of drugs taking off one in a Heroin perioud and the other in the era of Cocaine so during those time hoods were good distribution points. Currently they arent worth anything and probably wont be again.

@ Diego Delgado

 

I'm not starting an argument with you and please don't take this the wrong way, but I will agree with Silentype and Kwandilibro - you really need to check your facts first before making such claims in your statements like that.

 

It seems like you are still living in the past and a little out of touch with reality. The reality is that the Italian-American Mafia is no longer criminal organization it once was, and a lot of its power and influence in the American underwrold has greatly declined over the years. This is due in large part to constant, heavy attacks and pressure from law enforcement AND also a significant change in nationwide demographics across major US cities. Most organized crime activities in the neighbourhoods/ghettoes of cities that were once under control of the Italian-American Mafia are now in the control of other ethnic criminal groups like African-American and Hispanic gangs. The Mafia had once always controlled areas of organized crime popular with black gangsters, like the illegal lottery (numbers-running) and heroin sales. However this all began to change at least since the late 1970s and into the 1980s. A Mafioso called Crazy Joe Gallo was one of the first Italian-American mobsters to realize this change, and as a result he forged alliances with black gangsters to combine to with them in making money from narcotics sales and other illegal activities. This was the point that the Italians realized that they could NO longer have control over the newly forming Black or Hispanic gangs in Black or Hispanic neighbourhoods and ghettoes. And just because the Italian-American Mafia dominates white-collar crime, it does not necessarily make them more powerful than other ethnic gangs - it just means that their illegal activities can potentially net them huge amounts of money in a much shorter space of time than traditional criminal rackets with less attention from the law, plus they are much more cleverly disguised and made to look legitimate, giving the Italian-American Mafia this aura of a coporate feel and an image of being some premier, criminal organization. The Italian-American Mafia's dominance and concentration on white-collar crime is more than likely because they have been pushed out in other areas of organized crime, particularly narcotics, not because they don't want to be bothered with other illegal stuff.

 

Don't fool yourself, being mostly into white-collar crime does not mean that the Italian-American Mafia will ignore any kind of big money being made elsewhere in other illegal activities. The Italians cannot control crack sales NOT because they don't want to - they probably do want to or would like to, but they CANNOT because, a) they do not have the manpower to engage in the frequent violence that comes with it, and b) they cannot overcome the numerically superior Black and Hispanic gangs that control most of the ghettoes where the crack trade thrives, plus the cocaine supplied for crack is controlled by the Hispanic drug cartels (Mexican, Colombian, Dominican). And the US crack trade is still worth billions of dollars, so don't even start to dismiss its significance to organized crime, just because the trade is dominated by African-American and Hispanic street gangs. Plus you have Jamaicans taking a big piece of the crack trade too. The Italians pretty much don't have too much of a say in who gets most of all this crack money that keeps flowing in. You cannot just dismiss the crack trade and the Black gangs who dominate it at retail street level as insignificant to organized crime, the money is still serious money (worth billions). The same for US heroin trade - the Mafia used to control it, until African-American and Hispanic (Mexican, Dominican) gangs began to establish their own heroin distribution networks. Mexico and Colombia produce their own heroin, so just how exactly could the Italians compete against such an advantage like that ? Later it was newer criminal groups like the Triads and Nigerian drug gangs that took a huge piece of the US heroin trade from the late 1980s to the 1990s by bringing the drug in from Asia. The Italian-American Mafia long lost their domination of the heroin trade by at least since the mid/late 1980s.

 

And the Italian-American Mafia cannot just so easily just put out an army of gunmen and hitmen on the streets to go to war with other ethnic gangs like the Blacks, Hispanics, Chinese etc - they just don't have that kind of manpower anymore. The Italian-American Mafia hardly ever engage in hits, contract killings, shootings or gunfights these days, if ever! The Black and Hispanic gangs would outnumber the Mafia by far if a pitched urban gang war was to ever take place. Even if the Mafia have the money to recruit people, it does not gauruntee that everybody they choose would join them. Right now Mexican street gangs are at war with Black street gangs in southern California, but there is no 'winner' as such, they are just shooting and killing each other, tit-for-tat over turf. Russian gangs are not at war with anyone as such, and they are not taking over US organized crime like some thought they would. The Irish Mob are not even heard from anymore, they barely seem to exist (except in Boston). The end point is that there is no one most powerful crime group in the USA anymore. It is not a simple case of "this gang is bigger and badder than the other gang", just does not work like that anymore - most criminal groups in the USA will just forge alliances to make money and control rackets, some will fight wars with each other or amongst themselves, who is the most powerful will depend on the area, locale and type of illegal activity to determine who dominates who.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Official General

[Silentype]

Lol i dont have facts.. You just listed 2 guys that have been dead for 30 years + one of them was whacked by the Commision itself. If their was money to be made there CURRENTLY they would take it, all it is now is abunch of crackheads and low rate drug dealers. Also I said the Mafia was into mostly white collar crime, their isnt any white collar crime in the poor trash ghettos (therefore no reason or need to control them). Also the two guys that you listed were both in eras of drugs taking off one in a Heroin perioud and the other in the era of Cocaine so during those time hoods were good distribution points. Currently they arent worth anything and probably wont be again.

@ Diego Delgado

 

I'm not starting an argument with you and please don't take this the wrong way, but I will agree with Silentype and Kwandilibro - you really need to check your facts first before making such claims in your statements like that.

 

It seems like you are still living in the past and a little out of touch with reality. The reality is that the Italian-American Mafia is no longer criminal organization it once was, and a lot of its power and influence in the American underwrold has greatly declined over the years. This is due in large part to constant, heavy attacks and pressure from law enforcement AND also a significant change in nationwide demographics across major US cities. Most organized crime activities in the neighbourhoods/ghettoes of cities that were once under control of the Italian-American Mafia are now in the control of other ethnic criminal groups like African-American and Hispanic gangs. The Mafia had once always controlled areas of organized crime popular with black gangsters, like the illegal lottery (numbers-running) and heroin sales. However this all began to change at least since the late 1970s and into the 1980s. A Mafioso called Crazy Joe Gallo was one of the first Italian-American mobsters to realize this change, and as a result he forged alliances with black gangsters to combine to with them in making money from narcotics sales and other illegal activities. This was the point that the Italians realized that they could longer have control over the newly forming Black or Hispanic gangs in Black or Hispanic neighbourhoods and ghettoes. And just because the Italian-American Mafia dominates white-collar crime, it does not necessarily make them more powerful than other ethnic gangs - it just means that their illegal activities can potentially net them huge amounts of money in a much shorter space of time than traditional criminal rackets with less attention from the law, plus they are much more cleverly disguised and made to look legitimate, giving the Italian-American Mafia this aura of a coporate feel and an image of being some premier, criminal organization. The Italian-American Mafia's dominance and concentration on white-collar crime is more than likely because they have been pushed out in other areas of organized crime, particularly narcotics, not because they don't want to be bothered with other illegal stuff.

 

Don't fool yourself, being mostly into white-collar crime does not mean that the Italian-American Mafia will ignore any kind of big money being made elsewhere in other illegal activities. The Italians cannot control crack sales NOT because they don't want to - they probably do want to or would like to, but they CANNOT because, a) they do not have the manpower to engage in the frequent violence that comes with it, and b) they cannot overcome the numerically superior Black and Hispanic gangs that control most of the ghettoes where the crack trade thrives, plus the cocaine supplied for crack is controlled by the Hispanic drug cartels (Mexican, Colombian, Dominican). And the US crack trade is still worth billions of dollars, so don't even start to dismiss its significance to organized crime. Plus you have Jamaicans taking a big piece of the crack trade too. The Italians pretty much don't have too much of a say in who gets most of all this crack money that keeps flowing in. You cannot just dismiss the crack trade and the Black gangs who dominate it at retail street level as insignificant to organized crime, the money is still serious money (worth billions). The same for US heroin trade - the Mafia used to control it, until African-American and Hispanic (Mexican, Dominican) gangs began to establish their own heroin distribution networks. Mexico and Colombia produce their own heroin, so just how exactly could the Italians compete against such an advantage like that ? Later it was newer criminal groups like the Triads and Nigerian drug gangs that took a huge piece of the US heroin trade from the late 1980s to the 1990s by bringing the drug in from Asia. The Italian-American Mafia long lost their domination of the heroin trade by at least since the mid/late 1980s.

 

And the Italian-American Mafia cannot just so easily just put an army of gunmen and hitmen to go to war with other ethnic gangs like the Blacks, Hispanics, Chinese etc - they just don't have that kind of manpower anymore. The Italian-American Mafia hardly ever engage in hits, contract killings, shootings or gunfights these days, if ever! The Black and Hispanic gangs would outnumber the Mafia by far if a pitched urban gang war was to ever take place. Even if the Mafia have the money to recruit people, it does not gauruntee that everybody they choose would join them. Right now Mexican street gangs are at war with Black street gangs in California, but there is no 'winner' as such, they are just shooting and killing each, tit-for-tat over turf. Russian gangs are not at war with anyone as such, and they are not taking over US organized crime like some thought they would. The Irish Mob are not even heard from anymore, they barely seem to exist (except in Boston). The end point is that there is no one most powerful crime group in the USA anymore. It is not a simple case of "this gang is bigger and badder than the other gang", just does not work like that anymore - most criminal groups in the USA will just forge alliances to make money and control rackets, some will fight wars with each other or amongst themselves, who is the most powerful will depend on the area, locale and type of illegal activity to determine who dominates who.

I appreciate you going into detail.(something I tried to do a little bit, but as you can tell from his responses it wasn't going to get me anywhere with this guy.)

Preconceived notions and potential racial bigotry are the worse, but there's no real need to get into an argument with such a person as you said before, and thankfully he ended our conversation satisfactorily, in my opinion, by going off(like I said and knew someone would) instead of providing evidence of what he was saying/thinking.

[akbirdman]

[Nitsuj Rasta]

I honestly think you should start of as a bum. For whatever reason in the storyline you become homeless, is up to R*. The struggle for power could end you up as a corporate master mind or a top notch five star general gangster. Give the player more options with there character. I mean let's face it, GTA has given us many different looks over the years on the type of lifestyles they can incorporate into these characters we have grown to love. Why not give us the option (witch also gives more character customization as well) on witch road we want to take our player.

 

 

[lukb13]

Lol i dont have facts.. You just listed 2 guys that have been dead for 30 years + one of them was whacked by the Commision itself. If their was money to be made there CURRENTLY they would take it, all it is now is abunch of crackheads and low rate drug dealers. Also I said the Mafia was into mostly white collar crime, their isnt any white collar crime in the poor trash ghettos (therefore no reason or need to control them). Also the two guys that you listed were both in eras of drugs taking off one in a Heroin perioud and the other in the era of Cocaine so during those time hoods were good distribution points. Currently they arent worth anything and probably wont be again.

@ Diego Delgado

 

I'm not starting an argument with you and please don't take this the wrong way, but I will agree with Silentype and Kwandilibro - you really need to check your facts first before making such claims in your statements like that.

 

It seems like you are still living in the past and a little out of touch with reality. The reality is that the Italian-American Mafia is no longer criminal organization it once was, and a lot of its power and influence in the American underwrold has greatly declined over the years. This is due in large part to constant, heavy attacks and pressure from law enforcement AND also a significant change in nationwide demographics across major US cities. Most organized crime activities in the neighbourhoods/ghettoes of cities that were once under control of the Italian-American Mafia are now in the control of other ethnic criminal groups like African-American and Hispanic gangs. The Mafia had once always controlled areas of organized crime popular with black gangsters, like the illegal lottery (numbers-running) and heroin sales. However this all began to change at least since the late 1970s and into the 1980s. A Mafioso called Crazy Joe Gallo was one of the first Italian-American mobsters to realize this change, and as a result he forged alliances with black gangsters to combine to with them in making money from narcotics sales and other illegal activities. This was the point that the Italians realized that they could longer have control over the newly forming Black or Hispanic gangs in Black or Hispanic neighbourhoods and ghettoes. And just because the Italian-American Mafia dominates white-collar crime, it does not necessarily make them more powerful than other ethnic gangs - it just means that their illegal activities can potentially net them huge amounts of money in a much shorter space of time than traditional criminal rackets with less attention from the law, plus they are much more cleverly disguised and made to look legitimate, giving the Italian-American Mafia this aura of a coporate feel and an image of being some premier, criminal organization. The Italian-American Mafia's dominance and concentration on white-collar crime is more than likely because they have been pushed out in other areas of organized crime, particularly narcotics, not because they don't want to be bothered with other illegal stuff.

 

Don't fool yourself, being mostly into white-collar crime does not mean that the Italian-American Mafia will ignore any kind of big money being made elsewhere in other illegal activities. The Italians cannot control crack sales NOT because they don't want to - they probably do want to or would like to, but they CANNOT because, a) they do not have the manpower to engage in the frequent violence that comes with it, and b) they cannot overcome the numerically superior Black and Hispanic gangs that control most of the ghettoes where the crack trade thrives, plus the cocaine supplied for crack is controlled by the Hispanic drug cartels (Mexican, Colombian, Dominican). And the US crack trade is still worth billions of dollars, so don't even start to dismiss its significance to organized crime. Plus you have Jamaicans taking a big piece of the crack trade too. The Italians pretty much don't have too much of a say in who gets most of all this crack money that keeps flowing in. You cannot just dismiss the crack trade and the Black gangs who dominate it at retail street level as insignificant to organized crime, the money is still serious money (worth billions). The same for US heroin trade - the Mafia used to control it, until African-American and Hispanic (Mexican, Dominican) gangs began to establish their own heroin distribution networks. Mexico and Colombia produce their own heroin, so just how exactly could the Italians compete against such an advantage like that ? Later it was newer criminal groups like the Triads and Nigerian drug gangs that took a huge piece of the US heroin trade from the late 1980s to the 1990s by bringing the drug in from Asia. The Italian-American Mafia long lost their domination of the heroin trade by at least since the mid/late 1980s.

 

And the Italian-American Mafia cannot just so easily just put an army of gunmen and hitmen to go to war with other ethnic gangs like the Blacks, Hispanics, Chinese etc - they just don't have that kind of manpower anymore. The Italian-American Mafia hardly ever engage in hits, contract killings, shootings or gunfights these days, if ever! The Black and Hispanic gangs would outnumber the Mafia by far if a pitched urban gang war was to ever take place. Even if the Mafia have the money to recruit people, it does not gauruntee that everybody they choose would join them. Right now Mexican street gangs are at war with Black street gangs in California, but there is no 'winner' as such, they are just shooting and killing each, tit-for-tat over turf. Russian gangs are not at war with anyone as such, and they are not taking over US organized crime like some thought they would. The Irish Mob are not even heard from anymore, they barely seem to exist (except in Boston). The end point is that there is no one most powerful crime group in the USA anymore. It is not a simple case of "this gang is bigger and badder than the other gang", just does not work like that anymore - most criminal groups in the USA will just forge alliances to make money and control rackets, some will fight wars with each other or amongst themselves, who is the most powerful will depend on the area, locale and type of illegal activity to determine who dominates who.

I appreciate you going into detail.(something I tried to do a little bit, but as you can tell from his responses it wasn't going to get me anywhere with this guy.)

Preconceived notions and potential racial bigotry are the worse, but there's no real need to get into an argument with such a person as you said before, and thankfully he ended our conversation satisfactorily, in my opinion, by going off(like I said and knew someone would) instead of providing evidence of what he was saying/thinking.

True. Dude didn't give a shred of evidence. I did the research and know for a fact that you guys are right. Dude also ain't watching world news. Everyone that watches news from around the world knows what I am talking about.

[Rockstar20124]

 

The main reason I disliked San Andreas was because of all of this hard 'Gangsta' sh*t. I much preferred IV because Niko was actually a character you could connect with, whereas CJ was just annoying. The story in IV was hardly simple, it was, as a user above has pointed out, a complex plot of revenge and the pursuit for happiness. I didn't even realise that SA had a story...

This. And I really think the side characters are flat as hell. The motivation for betrayal is ridiculous in SA. And certain conclusions with backstabbing characters like Ryder were terrible. There was no emotion in the ending of this character and it was really dissatisfying. I also didn't like the slow fat guy Big Smoke as the boss. And I didn't really like Samuel L. Jacksons and Chris Pens corrupt police officers characters either. And don't get me started on one dimensional characters like CJs sister Kendl, her latino boyfriend Cesar and that cliche nerd Zero. Also the voice recording sounded like it was done in a cheap studio or shed or something GTA IV is technically and storywise vastly superiour to SA. The serious American Dream theme with an emotional revenge plot ("I'm the one who survived!" from the trailer*) make it deseveringly the highest rated game of all time for PS3 and XBOX 360 GTA IV is the instant classic for videogames like The Godfather (2) was for movies. Both are incredible (anti) crime stories with the message that crime ultimately doesn't pay. Sure, you can get rich fast but at what price? You make a lot of enemies. Including possibly your own friends and family members who are jealous and greedy or want more power in the organisation. Just wait till Karma comes around and stabs you in your back You will get paranoid, trust no one and end up all alone

 

And why the hell was the potentional revenge plot in SA so terribly forgotten? Your mother gets shot in the very beginning and do we get a satisfying ending of the coward criminal responsible? No! It remains a mystery To make things short the gangsta story and characters in SA are pretty lame. That doesn't mean I hate the game. Far from it. I kind of like clueless CJ, James Woods character, the hippie conspiracy character, those British guys, that wannabe OG Loc and Woozie too, although him driving is also pretty lame. And I do understand why some people were a bit dissapointed in GTA IV gameplaywise. The vehicles, cheats, landscapes with more diversity because of the countrysides are mostly better in SA. Anyway, please no more typical 90's gangsta story. It isn't likely anyway because when GTA comes back to SA whether it be GTA Next or V it will likely be all about hollywood

 

And it's not a black thing because I like Samuel L. Jackson, Wesley Snipes, Michael Clark Duncan, Terrence Howard, Morgan Freeman, Dennis Haysbert, Don Cheadle, Will Smith, Denzel Washington etc And I love Stacey Dash **, Halle Berry, Vanessa L. Williams, Pam Grier, Aisha Tyler, Tyra Banks, Zoe Saldana, Thandie Newton, Rosario Dawson, Paula Patton etc And I also love some r&b, soul, hiphop, rap. etc "black" music. "Flashing Lights" by Kayne West is one of the best songs in GTA IV imho

 

* GTA IV story trailer

 

 

 

** Stacey Dash in Kayne Wests "All Falls Down". Stacey looks freakin' hot. Kayne looks pretty stylish and badass. Maybe someone like him could be the next protagonist who starts of rich, then maybe loses everything, to come back up to the top stronger then ever again?