Is melee a bad thing?

[Secura]

Now there is at most from what i can recollect one GTA with medicore Verging on bad combat. The rest are bad and when i say bad i mean terrible and when i say terrible i mean catastrophically bad.

 

 

So i ask anyone that is kind enough to read this topic(I know your doing it I'm watching you) why do you think Hand to Hand and other forms of melee combat whether it be with a bat sword a bare fisted is so bad?

 

 

 

To use an example of a free roam game that has at least to me incredibley fun combat is Assassins Creed series. That series to me has the most satisfying Melee combat in a Free Roaming game and it made me wonder why R* are behind in a trend that could make their game so much more enjoyable.

 

 

 

A major example of R* hating Melee Combat is seen quite early in GTA IV. You are told to steal or take a blista compact, After introducing the train station to the player the game then introduces you to what i thought during my first playthrough would be the first new addition to and hopefully very expansive combat system.

 

 

 

 

It taught you a sort of stun punch manouver where if you walk up to an enemy while not in a combat stance but are still locked onto to them once you get close enough you can perform a move that Knocks your oponent out in one hit.

 

 

 

Now after the tutorial was over i went arround trying to replicate this display of badassery (<-- This is a word I assure you) Only to find out after 19 unsuccesful attempts and a quick trip to the internet that not only was in unachiveable, it had been removed from the freaking game!.

 

 

 

 

So why? i began to ask myself, did R* Impliment a feature that would imeadiatley be removed after the mission that just introduced it to you? I could not come up with an answer and it's still on my mind today.

 

 

 

Why is Melee combat considerd to be so horrible by R*? Why do they dispise something that could make their game infinitely better, especially when the euophria pyshics engine is involved.

 

 

It makes no sense but perhaps you guys could not only tell me why R* do not like Melee combat in their games and what types of it and what messures could be utilised to make it a very successful part of V and realy highlight the feeling that you are a badass who just cleaned out a room of 7 guys with his bare hands.

 

 

 

 

[WhistleBlower]

Bully, which was developed by Rockstar Vancouver, had the best combat system. You could learn all sorts of moves and perform various reversals. Let's say that someone much taller than you would pick you up to throw you down. You could counter that midway by punching said person in the head multiple times before slamming him face-first into the ground. Then again, fighting was a pretty big part of Bully which explains why you don't see it in GTA since everyone prefers to use guns instead. Bully had a bottle-rocket launcher and another weapon that would shoot potatoes. Pretty clever, if you ask me.

Edited June 18, 2011 by WhistleBlower

[CryptReaperDorian]

It taught you a sort of stun punch manouver where if you walk up to an enemy while not in a combat stance but are still locked onto to them once you get close enough you can perform a move that Knocks your oponent out in one hit.

 

 

 

Now after the tutorial was over i went arround trying to replicate this display of badassery (<-- This is a word I assure you) Only to find out after 19 unsuccesful attempts and a quick trip to the internet that not only was in unachiveable, it had been removed from the freaking game!.

 

 

 

 

So why? i began to ask myself, did R* Impliment a feature that would imeadiatley be removed after the mission that just introduced it to you? I could not come up with an answer and it's still on my mind today.

Actually, that's not entirely true. You can use the stun punch on the guards at Perestroika when people are lined up by the door. However, I'm also disappointed by how the stun punch is absent except for that one example and the mission.

 

Anyways, I have a better question. Why does R* hate combat in general? They did an overhaul on the driving, but even shooting just doesn't feel natural. I have played third-person shooters (SOCOM is a great example), and shooting in GTA is definitely not as good as it is in those games. I suggest that R* also improve the melee to make it feel more authentic. Oh, and they better not use that horrible melee system they used in Red Dead Redemption.

[AceRay]

I actually enjoyed hand-to-hand combat in GTA4, it felt realistic. also, LA Noire has a great one too. Red Dead Redemption, however, had an abysmal combat system. In GTA4, it felt like punches actually hit people but in RDR it feels like your swinging right pass them and they fall back. Really crap, glad it was better in GTA4. And the knock out thing is only one bit, I think the rest of the system was really fun.

and you had cage fighting in TBOGT as well. Real fun there.

[WhistleBlower]

To add to my previous post, I'm sure that they could integrate a similar combat system like the one featured in Bully into the next GTA, not just because of all of the moves you could learn, but to experiment with the physics. If you're going up against someone twice your size then you can expect it to be a challenging fight. You shouldn't go in guns blazing all the time. For specific missions anyway. I mean, it would require the developers to code all sorts of different attributes for the NPCs, but it'd be worth it in the end.

Edited June 18, 2011 by WhistleBlower

[Kwandilibro]

GTA IV's hand to hand system was absolutely awful. On top of being beyond sluggish, the hits were often inconsistent. Sometimes you could punch somebody once and knock them out cold, while some times you had to damn near beat their nose into their hair to really do any damage. As for being slow, I don't know what else to say really. I honestly thought SA's fighting style, though unnecessarily ghetto, was better than IV's. But there really needs to be some sort of variation between fighting styles. Gang members should fight differently from businessmen in suits, grandmas should fight differently from bikers (who shouldn't have existed in IV). Speaking of bikers, why the f*ck were they in IV but not in SA, the perfect environment for them?

[Finn 7 five 11]

The fighting in Saints Row 3 looked awesome, jumping up and grabbing someones head and slamming into your knee...the sound effect play a large role in satisfying hand to hand combat.

 

 

GTA IV's hand to hand system was absolutely awful. On top of being beyond sluggish, the hits were often inconsistent. Sometimes you could punch somebody once and knock them out cold, while some times you had to damn near beat their nose into their hair to really do any damage.

 

Random knockouts made sense, some people are obviously more prone to it, and in a fight people don't always brawl for a long time, there are often 1 hit knock outs.

Edited June 18, 2011 by finn4life

[HipHopHeadSeb]

melee is a great thing....

by far the warriors had the best fighting system easily (u know, that amazing game rockstar made called the warriors...). it was just amazing, fast fluent, brutal, realistic and varied to an extent.

and even that can be improved.

 

iv always thought that the GTA fist fighting was absolutely pathetic and i dont know why they never make it more warrior like.

it DEFINATELY needs to be worlds better.

 

i mean its gta 4 now and we STILL cant even tackle running away victims -_-

not to mention it seems almost impossible on gta 4 to consistantly and accurately kick someone while they are on the ground, u have to be in just the right position and even then youll end up kicking the body away from you, other then that youll just miss pathetically...... pathetic

 

imagine the warriors, mixed with gta4, mixed with bully. the fighting system would be amazing.

 

 

 

EDIT : and about the stun punch

 

on GTAIV sometimes randomly i actually manage to spark people out with 1 good punch landing straight to the face.

 

iv always wondered whats with that, i never do it on purpose.

Edited June 18, 2011 by HipHopHeadSeb

[GTA_stu]

I would agree that melee has been pretty awful in GTA. You pretty much just mash away at a button and hope for the best. It was a bit better n IV, I liked the counter system. It was a bit clunky, but at least they made an effort.

 

The hand to hand combat isn't really what bothers me though, the thing that annoys me is the lack of variety in melee weapns. I don't want a Dead Rising style "everything is a weapon" but the choice in IV was dismal. A baseball bat and a knife... oh how you spoil us R*. I want at least, at LEAST:

 

a bat, a knife, a machete, a katana, a chainsaw, knuckle dusters, police truncheon/night stick.

[Mokrie Dela]

I haven't played a game with a decent hand to hand system for AGES

Splinter Cell Conviction showed promise in 2007 until they revamped it. That was annoying as i thought it looked good. I guess Assassin's creed got too big and SC:C was too similar. But Sam looked bad ass, and the fighting, although very clunky in the previews, showed promise.

 

The protag knowing krav maga would be cool - hopefully we'll see a build on SA's fighting styles and True Crime NYC's fighting system. We won't get a tekken kind of combo button crap, but to be actually able to FIGHT instead of punch and block (WHICH DOES NOT WORK!) would be cool

 

I would love to see an "everything is a weapon" but to have it fluid. If you're in a fight tap one button to grab the nearest object, the protag will dart, roll, dive toward the object and pick it up, allowing it to be immediately usable.

[Snake Without a Tongue]

 

i mean its gta 4 now and we STILL cant even tackle running away victims -_-

I love how you actually stop to throw a punch while someone's running away. And by love, I mean absolutely hate.

 

I could go on and on about how much I hate the melee system in GTA. Vice City Stories actually had the best hand to hand. SA had the best knife skills. I don't know why R* keeps taking a step back. In GTAIV they actually added sound effects for when you miss someone while trying to stab them when they're on the ground and your knife hits concrete. They added SOUND EFFECTS to what is essentially a poor game mechanic.

 

Gun combat has improved consistently but it still sucks. Poor accuracy and sound effects (compare to RDR). Melee hasn't changed since GTA3.

 

I could ramble all day, but it seems like we're all on the same page.

[WhistleBlower]

Someone mentioned The Warriors. How different is that to Bully? I'm only asking because I've never played it before.

[Duxfever]

It should be obvious why Bully had a better combat system, and Red Dead Redemption had a worse one.

 

Bully is focused on fighting more, so that would be R*'s main thing to focus and work hard on. Red Dead Redemption is NOT focused on fighting so they don't spend as much time focusing on it as much as they would. GTA IV had a balance of shooting and fighting. L.A. Noire had clunky shooting controls because that isn't the main focus.

 

I'm not sure why people haven't noticed this by now.

[Algonquin Assassin]

GTA IV's hand to hand system was absolutely awful. On top of being beyond sluggish, the hits were often inconsistent. Sometimes you could punch somebody once and knock them out cold, while some times you had to damn near beat their nose into their hair to really do any damage.

Have you ever been in a real fight, or witnessed one? As finn4life said some people are prone to being knocked out in one punch while others can take a few punches before going done. This randomness actually makes GTA IV's fighting more realistic and to be honest I've always thought the GTA III era's fighting has been sh*t.

 

It's like watching two stick figures beating each other up. SA made an effort with the different fighting styles, but it was still stiff and hard edged. GTA IV was slower, but at least it didn't feel like Niko had sticks for arms. Not perfect by any means, but a lot better than the previous games IMO.

[rootmanback]

the one game that had really good melee fighting in an open world type game: MAFIA 2.

it was so simple and didnt involve having to learn x amount of combos and it was damn effective too.

you can move your guy around better and evade and punch real good, great game that was.

 

ive always hated how in gtaiv that to get in fight mode you have to hold down a trigger in order to target them so that you can do all your fighting moves. holding down a trigger to fight= fail in my book. oh and when counteractacking its real crap. im suprised nobody here has been able to modify the way we fight in game, i mean hey we can have bleed and heal mods and cautious drivers 1.0 for the scripting codes here BUT no improvements on the melee front. CMON PEOPLE, MAKE A GOOD MELEE MOD plss.

 

wasnt there a mod that re-enables that stun punch back in game? i never saw the point of just maing it a one off feature you used in game. was rockstar on prozac when they made this game?

 

 

[HipHopHeadSeb]

 

Someone mentioned The Warriors. How different is that to Bully? I'm only asking because I've never played it before.

the warriors fighting was another world compared to bully fighting...

the warriors was the best R* game when it comes to fighting easily.

its accurate, fast, fluent, brutal, realistic and varied.

on the warriors u can throw ppl to the ground, tackle ppl who run away, punch, knee, kick and dodge. u can grab and wen u get angry enough u can do especially vicious moves.

not only that but surfaces where useful. u cld smash ppls heads into windows and walls etc.

and ANYTHING can be used as a weapon.

even throwing things on the warriors is top notch

and when sum1 gets out a knife, ur in trouble.

 

on the warriors u can mug ppl, buy drugs, get ripped off, trash streets and cars, do raids on stores

 

ppl who say bully has better fighting either have never played the warriors, or have a strange view of what a fight is.....

the warriors is 1 of my all time favourite games. and its unbelievable to why they havent made GTA more like the warriors. so many amazing stuff to do on the warriors

PLAY IT NOW!

 

o yeah, and on the warriors theres only 1 gun in the game, so it involves a whole lot of melee

Edited June 19, 2011 by HipHopHeadSeb

[WhistleBlower]

Someone mentioned The Warriors. How different is that to Bully? I'm only asking because I've never played it before.

the warriors fighting was another world compared to bully fighting...

the warriors was the best R* game when it comes to fighting easily.

its accurate, fast, fluent, brutal, realistic and varied.

on the warriors u can throw ppl to the ground, tackle ppl who run away, punch, knee, kick and dodge. u can grab and wen u get angry enough u can do especially vicious moves.

not only that but surfaces where useful. u cld smash ppls heads into windows and walls etc.

and ANYTHING can be used as a weapon.

even throwing things on the warriors is top notch

and when sum1 gets out a knife, ur in trouble.

 

on the warriors u can mug ppl, buy drugs, get ripped off, trash streets and cars, do raids on stores

 

ppl who say bully has better fighting either have never played the warriors, or have a strange view of what a fight is.....

the warriors is 1 of my all time favourite games. and its unbelievable to why they havent made GTA more like the warriors. so many amazing stuff to do on the warriors

PLAY IT NOW!

 

o yeah, and on the warriors theres only 1 gun in the game, so it involves a whole lot of melee

Wow, that game sounds awesome! I'll definitely check it out.

[Kwandilibro]

Have you ever been in a real fight, or witnessed one?

Could always be that my school is full of hoes and wannabe hoes. Fights around here are almost always dogsh*t.

[Urban Legend]

I would like to see slow mo fighting scenes if your on a mission where everything around your opponent is blurry and he is more focused. We should also get a dead eye feature if we have a strong enough weapon like an ax so you can cut off an arm with precision. I need a mix of fight night, the warriors, and manhunt here to make me happy. Lol

[HipHopHeadSeb]

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=476596

 

my "which r* game has the best fighting system poll"

 

give me ur feedback and votes.

[Rockstar20124]

 

I haven't played a game with a decent hand to hand system for AGES

Splinter Cell Conviction showed promise in 2007 until they revamped it. That was annoying as i thought it looked good. I guess Assassin's creed got too big and SC:C was too similar. But Sam looked bad ass, and the fighting, although very clunky in the previews, showed promise.

 

The protag knowing krav maga would be cool - hopefully we'll see a build on SA's fighting styles and True Crime NYC's fighting system. We won't get a tekken kind of combo button crap, but to be actually able to FIGHT instead of punch and block (WHICH DOES NOT WORK!) would be cool

 

I would love to see an "everything is a weapon" but to have it fluid. If you're in a fight tap one button to grab the nearest object, the protag will dart, roll, dive toward the object and pick it up, allowing it to be immediately usable.

Have you played The Bourne Conspiracy? Krav Maga all the way Some fights take way too long, but it is still a pretty good game with great enviromental takedowns

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although the wrestling style in Saints Row 3 looks pretty funny I don't think it really suits GTA. This more realistic efficient fighting style Krav Maga looks better for GTA. And using every object as a weapon would be great. Dead Rising 2 is maybe over the top, but at least you have amazing variation in your melee attacks

 

 

 

 

 

In GTA IV, besides the limited melee weapons, you can only pick up some cans? What's up with that?

 

I also like the fighting in Yakuza 3. Maybe a bit clunky, but pretty satisfying with great object / enviromental moves

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I haven't played The Warriors either. A real shame this xbox game isn't backwards compatible on the 360 Anyway, Rockstar North should definitely learn from games like Dead Rising 2, The Bourne Conspiracy and Yakuza 3