Game of Thrones

[darthYENIK]

...Jamie's the same dick who pushed a kid out a f*cking window, guys. He's not an honorable guy.

I remember having to remind myself that while reading the books. I began to like him in his adventures with Brienne, and then sympathized with him when he lost his hand, and told his story of betraying Aerys. Then he got back to Kings Landing, and I remembered what a sh*t he was.

[Xerukal]

New episode was great.

 

 

Thoughts:

 

I enjoyed the close confrontation and eventual deal between Tywin and Oberyn.

 

Sandor should stop being a f*cking c*nt.

 

The wildlings raiding that settlement made me want to root for Jon and The Watch even more.

 

Daario is officially cool again after that one scene with the champion.

 

The scene with the slave collars in the catapults was pretty cool. Daenerys seems to enjoy her continuing liberation of every single slave trade capital she stumbles upon.

 

 

 

 

Season 4 is shaping up amazingly. Can't wait for the next episode.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Xerukal

[GunWrath]

 

Finally caught up on this show.. whew, what a ride.

 

 

Joffrey is f*cking dead, finally!

 

 

Just talking about the previous episode (Season 4 Episode 2):

 

 

 

What you mean to tell me you didn't like him. Haha. I loved the way he died in this episode great acting by him not just in this episode but from the start of the series. Normally I tend to like villians even though I'm not suppose to in TV shows and films, but every decision Joffrey made up to this point really pissed me off. Shame to see that Jack Gleeson has retired from acting though.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, gruesome f*cking death. Especially when his eyes glazed over with bloodshot. Not to mention last episode (disregard reading further if you haven't watched it yet) - his mother and Jamie banging right next to his dead corpse.. I was like OHHHHHHH, lmao. I'm more a fan of Daenerys Stormborn and Jon Snow, so I usually get more excited during the Night Watch scenes and her taking city by city.

 

I'm a bit sad that Starks were wiped out.. I really enjoy Sean Bean in several films but he got killed in the show far too soon for my liking but I guess it sets up the entire story/plot to the show.

 

 

I've put this show off for sooo f*cking long and now I'm hooked on it.

#teamjonsnow

[MrcTOtheJ]

...Jamie's the same dick who pushed a kid out a f*cking window, guys. He's not an honorable guy.

Oh yeah, I agree, he's far from a saint.

 

Just this didn't fit his Character IMO.

[AlienTwo]

...Jamie's the same dick who pushed a kid out a f*cking window, guys. He's not an honorable guy.

But don't forget, yes he is an incestuous attempted-child-murderer, but he also saved the entire population of King's Landing by breaking his oath and gaining a life-long negative moniker when he killed the Mad King. He also returned and fought, one-handedly, a bear to save Brienne... I think he is more complex than just any one of his acts, not saying he is a good man, but he certainly isn't as solidly evil as I felt after episode 1.

[darthYENIK]

The thing with trying to kill Bran is, like he said, he did do it for love. Not so he could continue to bone his sister, but because Robert would have killed her, and then the kids would have been found out and they would have had god knows what happen, and of course Jaime himself would be killed probably. It was a despicable unforgivable thing to do, but that's who he is. He has redeeming qualities though. He really does have a sense of honor, despite the dishonorable things he's done, which will be further explored this season or the next. He's still a sh*t, but he's a misunderstood sh*t, and he's probably my favorite character (next to Arya) at least in the books, because of how your perception as a reader/viewer changes of him with the revelation of his "whole story".

[Xerukal]

I really hope there's a moment where Jaime and Bran just confront eachother and Jaime has to swallow that one stain on his honor that he brought upon himself when he pushed him off of the tower.

 

 

Also, raping Cersei right next to Joffrey's remains wasn't very pleasant.

 

One thing, though. Was the hand Jaime lost the same hand he used to push Bran off? If so, that would be quite fitting.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Xerukal

[dante財閥]

Jaime at the very least is a complicated guy, I just didn't have him down as a rapist. Especially not someone he loves as much as his sister.

[Majestic81]

I fail to see how it was rape, he was just a bit horny. happens in every relationship.

[dante財閥]

I can't really remember ever forcing my girlfriend to have sex with me if she wasn't in the mood. I think you need to re evaluate your definition of rape.

[Brobinski]

Yeah that was clearly a rape scene. I saw some guy on another board trying to say it wasn't rape because Cersei wasn't objecting to having sex but was objecting to having sex there, next to Joff. That's ridiculous though, either way, Cersei wasn't consenting in this scene. Even with that argument, it's easy to see the most important part of this sentence: "I don't want to have sex next to the body of my recently deceased child of incest" (even if the otherpart is pretty f*cked up, too).

 

The director messed up here completely. In a few interviews since the episode aired, he's said how it was supposed to be "she’s sort of cajoled into it, and it is consensual". What you see on screen does not reflect that. At all. Death of the author and all that.

 

On another note, I love it when we get to the ~ 40 minute mark and haven't heard from Daeny for a while because whenever she has an end-of-episode scene it owns bones. Emilia Clarke is just outstanding at giving speeches in a made up language, it's remarkable. I can't believe they lucked out so much picking an actress who'd only ever been in one episode of Doctors and a SyFy original with an oddly prophetic plot: "Three dinosaur fossils are unintentionally brought to life by the Native American owner of a museum."

 

PS: I heard someone recently refer to Daeny's storyline as "Babe-raham Lincoln's Adventures in the Desert".

Edited April 22, 2014 by Brobinski

[darthYENIK]

Yeah, it definitely came off as rape. In the book I believe there's a similar scene, not in front of Joffery's corpse where Jaime forces himself on her, and then she at first objects because of the location, and of fear of being caught, but then "gets into it".

 

Not sure if that's right or not, someone who has better memory of the book, might be able to confirm this.

[Xerukal]

I sure hope Arya gets to Braavos soon.

 

I'm still hoping Syrio is alive, damn it. He didn't die on-screen and Game of Thrones loves forcing us to watch deaths of characters we love.

 

Been waiting in denial since Season 1. I'll never let go.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Xerukal

[El Dildo]

so I don't know how "that scene" went down in the books - or if that scene even existed in the books - but the way it was directed in the show was pretty clear...

no means no, and rape is rape.

 

like I said, maybe the books handle it differently. or like the Red-Wedding-baby-womb-stabbing, maybe that never actually occured in the literature when Martin was writing it. but HBO decided to give us a rape scene in front of a human corpse. which felt really pathetic to me because the tone was never built up in that direction. where did any of that crap come from?

 

that kind of behavior is not in Jamie's character.

at least not the Jamie that has been depicted thus far in the TV series.

Edited April 23, 2014 by El_Diablo

[Abel.]

Darth: they're in the sept in the presence of Jeffrey corpse with the silent sisters in the background. The scene in the book is vile due to the incest and setting, but cannot be regarded as rape. The depiction on screen is very ambiguous and could well be seen as rape, as Rob and Diablo say.

 

All in all, I feel that the scene is out of place for Jaime in the book and on-screen. Therefore I think the scene is present to remind us how vile an aberration their relationship is--whatever Jaime becomes, unless he ends this ungodly relationship with his sister, he can never be redeemed.

 

Cersei is the embodiment of malice and has no regard for Jaime when she opens her legs to the likes of Lancel and has left Jaime unable to form intimate relationships with other women. Jaime is clearly at fault too if this scene is indicative of their other sexual encounters. Ultimately, theirs is an abominable relationship which has to end.

Edited April 23, 2014 by elanman

[AlienTwo]

so I don't know how "that scene" went down in the books - or if that scene even existed in the books - but the way it was directed in the show was pretty clear...

no means no, and rape is rape.

 

like I said, maybe the books handle it differently. or like the Red-Wedding-baby-womb-stabbing, maybe that never actually occured in the literature when Martin was writing it. but HBO decided to give us a rape scene in front of a human corpse. which felt really pathetic to me because the tone was never built up in that direction. where did any of that crap come from?

 

that kind of behavior is not in Jamie's character.

at least not the Jamie that has been depicted thus far in the TV series.

In the books this was the moment Jamie finally returned to King's Landing from the road with Brienne, so it felt a little more natural... I mean his desires, that is, it's the first time he's seen her in over a year. The book does make it seem a little less rapey, but in both it was clearly a rape, whether or not Cersei consented at the end doesn't stop it from being an obvious (and incredibly uncomfortable) sexual assault. Twincest sexual assault. Necrophiliac even...

 

I made a comment before to Otter defending Jamie, I have thought about that a lot and I believe I want to like him so much (I think Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has a lot to do with that) that I am ignoring the horrible person he is. He is a monster... this episode didn't do anything to prove it, just remind me who is really is. He may do things from time to time that aren't evil, might even be kind, but the harm he does is so grievous (murder, child-murder, incest, rape) it immediately cancels the good. So far.

[Otter]

The great thing about this world is that the bar for decency is set sooooo low. So the good guys are rather hard to find.

[Zepren]

Yeah I didn't like the turn as it didn't feel like Jamie. He goes from this man willing to fight a bear to defend a woman's honour to raping his lover-not-from-another-mother. It just doesn't feel right after all his growth last season. They should have played it closer to the book on that one. It happens at the wrong time in the book (for starters) and then Cersei is much more into it then until she comes to her senses a bit about where she is.

 

So yeah but this isn't the first time they swapped out consential sex for rape. In the books, when Daenerys and Drogo hook up the first time, it's not rape at all. He woos her. In the show, they make him much more brutish in that moment.

[Audiophile]

I remember reading Drogo and Dany's first time in the books, I'd started reading after I'd watched the show, and I thought to myself "wow, they changed a consensual act into rape".

 

So I can't say I am too surprised that they did this with Jamie and Cersei. After everything I'd seen in GoT, that scene made me very uncomfortable. Not only because it was rape but because it was next to a dead body.

 

I don't care who it is, rape is rape and it's wrong. So I find the people justifying it because it's Cersei pathetic. So rape is ok if you dislike someone? No. Not in my mind anyway.

 

All in all tho, looking forward to the next episode. Dat ending with Dany....

 

I do have one thing to say, it must really suck to be a horse in Game of Thrones.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Audiophile

[dante財閥]

I remember reading Drogo and Dany's first time in the books, I'd started reading after I'd watched the show, and I thought to myself "wow, they changed a consensual act into rape".

 

 

I just remembered this actually. Maybe the shows creator has a penchant for staged rape porn. Cause to me that scene was rape unquestionably and so was this scene with Jaime. I'm now really interested to see how it was depicted in the books.

[Brobinski]

The great thing about this world is that the bar for decency is set sooooo low. So the good guys are rather hard to find.

 

I see your claim and raise you one Podrick Payne.

[Kirsty]

OK I need some minor and not too revealing book plot points to reassure the little grievances I have in my mind....I could Google, but I'd be too tempted to read too much. It might sound like blasphemy to the book readers but right now I'm enjoying being surprised too much so I'll start reading much later on.

 

Do Arya and Sansa, or any of the Starks for that matter, ever reunite? I don't like that Little Finger, I wish Sansa stayed in King's Landing at that point in the episode, but are my worries not necessary? I have read the spoiler about Lady Stark so if it involves that it's OK.

[Otter]

At this point in the books? Minor spoiler:

 

not yet. But there's two left to go, at least, and the possibility remains.

 

[El Dildo]

He goes from this man willing to fight a bear to defend a woman's honour to raping his lover-not-from-another-mother. It just doesn't feel right after all his growth last season.

 

bingo.

the show royally botched this scene.

 

it just didn't make sense in any context.

it would have worked if Jamie took her on the spot when they first reunited, but not after having been back for weeks and only just witnessing the murder of their son. just a f*cked up scene that felt really unnecessary and forced (no pun intended...).

 

that kind of rage/blind passion has never been shown in Jamie's character on the TV show.

[Otter]

I think the subtext may be a bit glossed over here. He's in love with her. He went through hell. Upon his return, she's shunning him repeatedly and he thinks it's because she thinks he's not man enough anymore. And now his own son died, was murdered - the son he was sworn to protect. To Jaime, a prideful man who's used to getting his way and has no qualms about ensuring that, she was being irrational.

 

It's not a defense but an explanation. There was no scene botchery here; Jaime's a right bastard. He may be on a redemptive path but people don't change at the drop of a hat like a fairy tale. It's far more satisfying to me when a story recognizes this.

 

However, if I'm remembering the scene correctly, she kissed him back a few times too. So, maybe there's that. Maybe we're telegraphing this from all the rape talk with Sam. But....probably not.

[El Dildo]

There was no scene botchery here; Jaime's a right bastard.

not according to the TV show as it has been presented to the viewer.

according to show-watchers, Jamie is not the man we saw on Sunday night. the scene was botched.

 

I don't expect people to change "at the drop of a hat" either.

but I expect characters and attitudes to remain relatively consistent and the show has botched the redemptive part of Jamie that they were building for months. if you haven't read the books and you've been following GoT since season 1, you're suddenly confused by Jamie's behavior.

 

that's the only point I was making.

great episode otherwise

Edited April 23, 2014 by El_Diablo

[Xerukal]

With all this talk of rape, I can't help but think of Salladhor Saan.

 

 

 

Whatever happened to that guy? Will he ever get to f*ck the queen? Will he ever get to charm her? I guess we'll never know.

[GunWrath]

All I know is.. I wouldn't mind Emilia Clarke talking dirty to me in that made up language.

 

 

 

 

I can't quite make out that Lord Baelish dude though.. is he good, is he bad, is he good/bad? or is he

 

just using/helping the stark girl to gain his own power and route to the throne?

 

[El Dildo]

Baelish is just out for Baelish.

 

the pawns he uses are incidental.

[GunWrath]

Seems so, there's always someone trying to make a profit during war and oppression. Dark character but I still like the guy for some odd reason.