Game of Thrones

[Jimbatron]

Hi there - I'm new to this thread, but not the show, or the books (both of which I love, although the latter a bit more, particularly since the former has had to speed off on its own).

I just wanted to share my prediction of who will end up on the Iron Throne. This is the first time I think I've been able to read between the plot lines to get a good rationale - rather than just guessing outright.

I note flicking back through this topic, some of you guys had some good success at guessing what was going to happen previously here - so keen to know what you think of it! I'll put spoilers is as I'll reference a point from the books (which people up to date with the TV series may be unaware of).

 

I came to this conclusion* only recently, and rather indirectly - bear with me on this! After the last TV episode some friends of mine were speculating the Jaime might be the one to kill Cersei. This isn't totally implausible given how they parted. It also fits with Maggy the Frog's prophecy: that the Valonqar or "little brother" (as Cersei was later given the translation by her Septon/Septa I think) would be the one to kill her. Although Cersei has long assumed the threat is Tyrion, Jaime is the younger of the twins, so could fit the description.

However, I don't think Jaime will want to go back to King's Landing (in the show, or the books). Everything for me points that he wants to finish up doing something honourable. He's been itching for the opportunity as he feels resentful at being reviled as the king-slayer for dispatching Aerys, despite saving the whole city in the process. I don't think adding kin-slayer to the list is what he'll want. The army of the dead is the clear-cut good-versus-evil battle he's been looking for all his life.

So if it's not Jaime who will kill Cersei, then who? Maggy got everything else spot on, so her demise seems inevitable. When following that thought process it occurred to me that the Valonqar may be another one of those Valyrian words that is genderless - perhaps "little brother" is a faulty translation, and should be "little sibling" - much like the confusion with the prince/princess that was promised prophecy.

If Cersei's killer is female, then that brings Arya potentially into play. That kill list of hers has been repeated too many times not to be a more significant plot element in my estimation. So far only relatively minor characters have been dispatched (Walder Frey's infamy for the Red Wedding aside). Now, it should be noted of course, Cersei has no sister. However, she's been assuming that the "Valonqar" is her little brother. However, in the prophecy, I believe Maggy refers to "The" Valonqar, not "Your" Valonqar.

So what if it isn't the Valonqar of Cersei herself, but rather the younger sibling of the one "younger and more beautiful, who will come to cast her down and take all she holds dear", also mentioned in the prophecy. Given Cersei is the current occupant of the Iron Throne (at least in the TV show), presumably this refers to an usurper / successor. Who is Arya the younger sister of, and might fit that description?

Sansa.

Cersei had been falsely guessing Magaery, whilst for many fans it was "obviously" meant to be Dany. GRRM doesn't do obvious though.

To add to this, in both the shows and the books it is noticeable her political credibility has been slowly building. Particularly in the show, she has now had both Littlefinger and Ramsay dispatched - arguably people she both learnt and suffered from. Notably however, getting other people (or animals) to swing the sword (dagger/teeth) - not the way of her father. In the show she's also made a point of how much she learnt from Cersei - making her a logical next target in the pattern of Sansa's progression. A likely trigger for action could be when her betrayal after feigning a temporary alliance is discovered. Sansa's story and character development also feels like it's gearing up for her wanting power more and more.

You also have to ask why Maggy uses one, and only one, Valyrian word in all her answers to Cersei's questions. Surely that's significant, and the only explanation I have is that's it's designed to conceal something. I think it would also be quite amusing if in fact Jon is the prince who was promised, and the discussion around gender confusion (identified by Maester Aemon / Missendei in the books /show) is in reality not relevant for that application. Rather it is just giving the fans the knowledge they need to potentially decipher a different clue.

The only thing that makes me doubt this theory is that I don't think the Valonqar is actually mentioned in the TV show flash back, only in the books. This leads me to ask why they would cut it, if it is that significant? I guess though explaining how Cersei found out the translation, and her fears around it, might have been too tricky for the TV medium (without being able to hear her thoughts etc).

*probably someone (really annoying) has already come up with this on internet somewhere, although I haven't seen it yet.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Jimbatron

[Leftist Bastard]

It's a solid theory; but I don't know how they'd work Sansa's claim in since there are two living Targaryens living around who have a far stronger political claim. I'm thinking that Arya might indeed go south and try to kill Cersei, but she will fail. She has to fail at one point or another otherwise it'll just be incredibly preposterous even for a Mary Sue - and I think that's where the Valonqar comes through in more than one way.

 

GRRM isn't the type to play prophecies with a straight face and I doubt he will now.

 

Arya, a younger sibling attempts to usurp Cersei but fails. Arya is put on trial; and in an all to familiar fashion demands a trial by combat. Of course Cersei is going to use The Mountain.

And that's where another valonqar comes in; The Hound. Facing his brother in combat to defend Arya - he defeats Cersei's undead monstrosity and his sword is lit on fire afterwards because he's azor ahai

 

And thus, Cersei's plans are foiled once again by a valonqar. But that's not a death, no.

 

I think Jaime will kill her; if not directly with a sword through her back all poetic like, indirectly. With his seed.

 

Jaime is some 15 seconds younger than Cersei; and Maggy said she won't have more than 3 children. What if she dies in child birth?

 

What if she dies giving birth to a dwarf?

[rtie]

 

[El Dildo]

that's a cool theory.

if Arya killed Cersei it spares Jamie from having to live with that weird guilt / honor.

 

but is that suggesting that Sansa would sit on the Iron Throne?

Sansa takes after her mother the way Arya takes after their father. I don't know if Sansa has that kind of aspiration. but if Sansa usurps Cersei, this raises the question of what happens to Dany?

[Leftist Bastard]

 

i posted that already git gud scrub

 

Diablo

I don't think Sansa can logically sit on the iron throne unless Dany and Jon both die without an heir, in which case Sansa can play up Jon being half Stark?

[El Dildo]

wait... what if it's Dany who dies in childbirth with Jon's kid?!

she keeps saying that she can't have children. cuz of the dragons and stuff. she dies with Jon at her side the way who's-her-face died with young Ned by her side when Jon was born.

 

oh snap.

Edited September 6, 2017 by El Diablo

[Kirsty]

Dany and Jon Snow die killing off the White Walkers and the dragons go down with them, fulfilling the prophecy of the Song of Ice and Fire because evil is banished forever, everyone else is dead, Sansa is left as Jon's heir because he wrote up a will before he left for Dragonstone last season so assumes the throne, Arya marries Gendry and their child becomes heir because Sansa never wanted to marry again, Sam retires to Horn Hill with Gilly and the closing scene is him writing a book... The Game of Thrones a lá Frodo and Bilbo Baggins style.

 

/ tin foil

[El Dildo]

has Sansa even met Gendry?

oh I'm dyslexic.

 

if Jon and Dany were to be killed you can't kill off the dragons again, too. they gotta live and make dragon babies. I'm pretty much more attached to the dragons than any of the people in this world. except for maybe the Hound <3

Edited September 6, 2017 by El Diablo

[Jimbatron]

Dany and Jon Snow die killing off the White Walkers and the dragons go down with them, fulfilling the prophecy of the Song of Ice and Fire because evil is banished forever, everyone else is dead, Sansa is left as Jon's heir because he wrote up a will before he left for Dragonstone last season so assumes the throne, Arya marries Gendry and their child becomes heir because Sansa never wanted to marry again, Sam retires to Horn Hill with Gilly and the closing scene is him writing a book... The Game of Thrones a lá Frodo and Bilbo Baggins style.

 

/ tin foil

 

^ Yeah, as part of the theory I posted above, call me morbid, but I'm fully expecting Jon and Dany to die just before the end, saving everyone from the long night.

In fact, as much as I like both the characters, I'd be disappointed if either or both ended up ruling Westeros. It would smack too much of a fairy tale happy ending, and that's not what this story should be about for me.

As an aside, although it's a fantasy and I'm all for there being demons and dragons, I think it's the human interactions that really interest Martin (and a lot of his fans). The Others / White Walkers are for me actually a great political allegory. They illustrate that you can have groups of bitter rivals who've always hated each other - but if you introduce a more frightening common foe, alliances can change very quickly. Take that threat away though, and then it's anyone's guess as to what happens. Some new friendships might be forged out of respect, others may go back to hating each other.

That's the potential ending I really want to see - but worried they can't do it justice in the planned 6 episodes. I'm sure the final two books will, but then I'm more worried about if we'll ever see them finished. But hopefully, a scramble for the throne between the survivors. I'm sure Varys will have something to say in it all.

Book Varys is way more sinister than TV show Varys. I found it interesting they had Qyburn do in Pycelle instead - although maybe it would have been one teleport too many even for D&D to pull off

 

Still, if Jon and Dany die, and Cersei as incumbent, anything is possible as to who could ascend the Iron Throne - anyone powerful enough not to be resisted. Gendry might have a claim if legitimised, but you'd have to ask how meaningful that would be given his father (rightly or wrongly) seized it off the Targaryens in the first place (with I think some very tenuous family connection through his Grandmother or something like that). Could see Gendry being married off to Sansa out of convenience - he's got no army or backing to hold on to power, but could help bolster a claim for a lady who does.

Much as you can't like the character, you can't help but feel Ramsay had the most poignant line in the whole story:

"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention".

Unless HBO bottle it and go all Holywood on us.

Arya, a younger sibling attempts to usurp Cersei but fails. Arya is put on trial; and in an all to familiar fashion demands a trial by combat. Of course Cersei is going to use The Mountain.

And that's where another valonqar comes in; The Hound. Facing his brother in combat to defend Arya - he defeats Cersei's undead monstrosity and his sword is lit on fire afterwards because he's azor ahai

Yeah I think the Mountain is more likely to be killed by the Hound. I was wondering if in his half dead state whether he'll not be fooled by Arya's face changing trick, perhaps at that point Sandor will intervene to save her.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Jimbatron

[Leftist Bastard]

For all the other folk advocating the Jaime = Azor Ahai theory...

 

That bit about salt and smoke? episode 4. Salt [the water Jaime almost drowns in] the smoke [dragon fire] and his metaphorical rebirth begins there: he becomes much more skeptical and apprehensive of Cersei.

[Karl11]

2 videos of the Part 2 of Making of Season 7 are out:

 

 

Also this for the lols, a little NSFW because of Boatsex:

 

[Coin]

For me, Jimbarton, that theory doesn't really even get out of the starting gate because Valonqar is not another one of those Valyrian words. It's not a gender neutral noun in High Valyrian; there is a little sister equivalent and no in between the two words unfortunately.

 

Fun titbit; the Valonqar doesn't necessarily have to be the one to deal the actual death blow

 

Prediction; Sansa will not sit on the Iron Throne. Quote this in 2019.

 

[Jimbatron]

^ what's the little sister equivalent of the word then? I couldn't find any reference to definitively say that is or isn't the case.

[Coin]

Hāedar is the one.

[rtie]

arya is going to air assassinate the night king quote me on this

[Coin]

arya is going to air assassinate the night king quote me on this

 

she will use her super powers to wear the face of meraxes to accomplish this

[AlienTwo]

 

arya is going to air assassinate the night king quote me on this

she will use her super powers to wear the face of meraxes to accomplish this

I'm in the "Bran wargs into Viseryion" camp. The dragon has three heads.

[Jimbatron]

Hāedar is the one.

 

There seems to be some confusion with that. dothraki.org suggests this, but westeros.org suggests valonquar could be ambiguous. I don't see a formal reference to confirm either.

 

Nevertheless Maggy herself used the words "his hands", which you could use to refute the idea as well. Regardless, there's another reason why Arya is still a valid possibility - her ability to take on a male face and persona. In any event, I have no doubt that Maggy's prophecy will be correct but was phrased by her to be deliberately misleading for Cersei.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Jimbatron

[Tokasmoka]

Last sunday night I curled up in a ball on my living room floor weeping as I repeatedly uttered 'why the 2 year wait, I need closure'

[LittleBlueTroll]

I cannot believe I have never posted in this thread. Reading through the predictions and theories above was very interesting, amazing how many scenarios and ideas people can have regarding the story, but even more amazing is how many times you think to yourself "I could see that happening" That is one of the more subtle things I love about GOT, it is very thought invoking.

 

Season 7 was great, I wish it was slightly longer so we could of had some more dialogue and tension in certain scenes, but aside from that I can't complain.

One thing that really stood out to me in season 7 was the score, particularly the music that played whenever Dany was Dragon riding.

This scene has some great examples:

 

 

[Tokasmoka]

^ Yes I love when the New Rockstars(one of many youtube reviewers but I think they do it best) go into musical theory with regards to GoT. Like the big sit down meeting in the finale, they played the theme minus a couple of key instruments why? because Dany and Cersei hadn't showed up yet. Then when Cersei agrees to help them they play the theme in a minor key to convey that Cersei is not being truthful on word. Last season was also a good example, the theme they played just before the Sept blew up was amazing, especially when they introduce the pipe organ which is synonymous with death. Then this year when they showed the snow fall on King's Landing I believe that's the first time we heard a choir, had a very Charlie Brown's Christmas feel to it haha.

 

The most underrated part of this show, and why it's the best show eva, is the musical score .

[The Time Ranger]

So I watched series 7, I enjoyed it, binge watching it all at once is the way to go for me. Some pretty good analysis in this video, lot of valid points brought up.

 

[Jimmy]

Sansa won't sit on iron throne. It'll be Jon. 2 years from now and I'll turn back to this page. Arya marrying Gendry? Seems a bit too far. I think Jaime should be the one to kill Cersei. He's had enough of her throughout a lifetime. Arya has had a long list of people she wanted to kill but she didn't kill 'em all.

 

 

 

Things like this are really popular.

[Leftist Bastard]

Lol those season 1 promo shots of different people on the throne feel real tacky now

[lethalqueen]

 

[LittleBlueTroll]

I have re-watched a few bits of season 7 here and there, and one thing I never really picked up on at first is how The Mountain done absolutely f*ck all when the white walker ran at Cersei, whenever anyone else with even a slight angered tone approaches her he usually steps in front of her just to remind people of his presence almost, he never even budged during that scene

 

If I was here I would review his salary.

[Leftist Bastard]

p sure he puts his hand on his sword.

[Jimmy]

IMO, the Mountain's presence doesn't serve a purpose for now. I would have preferred if they killed him in this very season. While this season 7 was utterly disappointing in bits, there was some comic relief like the Hound throwing stones at white walkers.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Kaniel Outis

[Karl11]

Here's more of the Game Revealed videos of Episode 3 & 4:

 

 

 

[Leftist Bastard]

IMO the mountain is being kept alive because Sandor's story ends when he's dead; now the real question is why they're pushing clegane bowl so far away when S6 would have been the perfect time to do it. You can still have Sandor kill Gregor and have her blow up the sept.