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gtafreak102

Should marijuana be legalised?

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El Dildo

In terms of civil rights and common sense, marijuana should be legalized. But, I don't really want it legalized for the sole reason that everyone I know that smokes pot regularly is either:

A: A slacker

B: A jack%$# who tries to pass off his marijuana smoking to other people as 'natural'

don't be stupid.

 

at least half the people I know who drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes are lazy, racist, assholes.

do I generalize and want to outlaw alcohol and tobacco?

 

no.

you can't use that argument against marijuana because it doesn't hold any water.

 

lazy people will be lazy with or without the ability to smoke pot.

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eroch

 

In terms of civil rights and common sense, marijuana should be legalized. But, I don't really want it legalized for the sole reason that everyone I know that smokes pot regularly is either:

A: A slacker

B: A jack%$# who tries to pass off his marijuana smoking to other people as 'natural'

don't be stupid.

 

at least half the people I know who drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes are lazy, racist, assholes.

do I generalize and want to outlaw alcohol and tobacco?

 

no.

you can't use that argument against marijuana because it doesn't hold any water.

 

lazy people will be lazy with or without the ability to smoke pot.

 

I'm sorry, but there is reason behind it. Being a depressant, marijuana makes you lazy and/or unable to be productive. Also, since it always comes next in these discussions, you can't use that weak argument people love to toss around about giving pot to medical patients. There are tons of ways you can ease the pain in a terminal patient, and weed isn't the only or even best solution. Most promoters of pot legalization use that straw man to guilt other people into agreeing with them. What, you don't want pot legalized? You must want cancer patients to have even more pain. Not kidding, I was walking by a demonstration and people had this type of stuff on signs.

 

Also, being a jerk isn't caused by alcohol consumption. Alcohol does not cause you to be a jerk any more than marijuana does. Marijuana does cause loss of focus and motivation for a longer period of time than alcohol. With alcohol, unless you're an alcoholic, you are generally back to normal after that alcohol in your blood is removed. Marijuana has longer lasting effects, and can effect your psyche easier than alcohol. I trust you're a reasonable and sound person, but I'm just making sure in the case that you misheard. I did not say marijuana was dangerous in any way. I did not say that marijuana shouldn't be legalized for any political or bigoted reason. I simply said that it can turn the average user into a lazy, unmotivated slacker with continued use. The reason I'm so opposed to legalization is that it could affect the younger generations. All drugs can and do make their way to the youth eventually, and legalization would only make weed easier to buy for younger people.

 

Unrelated note, but the reason northern states in Mexico can be so violent, and why many Americans incorrectly believe that Mexico is some desert hellscape, is because cartels run rampant in these areas. They run rampant because Americans buy an unbelievable amount of drugs from these cartels. Americans buy drugs, trade weapons back to the cartels, and the cartels ruin the lives of millions of Mexicans. Legalizing one of their biggest products probably wouldn't make these warlords very happy, and the effects of legalization could hurt those on the border, but especially in Mexico.

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Rown

Response to Paragraph 1:

 

Alcohol, being a depressant, is also not very good for productivity. We tried prohibition there too. Generally productivity arguments don't impress me because people can take a substance in moderation and be fine, it's the overindulgence that causes issues. Addiction should be kept in check but we shouldn't legislate based solely on the fringe users.

 

Response to Paragraph 2:

 

I went to high school in the midwest. Pot is illegal. My classmates got a hold of pot pretty easily.

 

Underage drinking is also illegal. My classmates got a hold of beer pretty easily. Cigarettes also didn't appear to be a problem for those who wanted them. (Though on the last point I think only like a half dozen at most smoked regularly. The anti-tobacco crowd has done pretty well shaping public perception.)

 

What I'm getting at here is not that it's okay or forgivable, but that the illegality of the substance seems to have little impact on its availability to those who want it. If a substance is 'forbidden', it's going to have more appeal to high schoolers. Supply and Demand, and Demand will find a way. You have to pick your battles if it's really worth enforcing a ban on a substance with such a high level of demand when you could be using those resources to help addicts and spread the word about the dangers of overusing and abusing substances.

 

Response to Paragraph 3:

 

This part feels a bit confused. The cartels, made rich by the black market trade in drugs, wreak havoc through northern Mexico. This I agree with. But then you suggest that legalizing certain drugs, and taking away their funding to buy guns and ammo would... make them more violent? How are you still a warlord if you can't afford to make war?

 

Rown :rampage:

Edited by Rown

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El Dildo

Being a depressant, marijuana makes you lazy and/or unable to be productive.

 

Also, being a jerk isn't caused by alcohol consumption.

 

1.) marijuana is not a depressant.

 

2.) no one said that alcohol makes you a jerk.

 

your argument sucks.

alcohol and tobacco cause immeasurable social and health problems in this world but they're completely legal.

 

while it's not perfect, marijuana doesn't cause anywhere near the amount of societal and health problems as the other things that we already let people use. there's no good reason why marijuana should be illegal. and just because you know a few lazy stoners doesn't mean it should be remain illegal. if you think marijuana should be illegal you're ignorant, misinformed, and standing on the wrong side of history.

 

get over it.

Edited by El_Diablo

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Panz

while it's not perfect, marijuana doesn't cause anywhere near the amount of societal and health problems as the other things that we already let people use.

Yeah, forget about the toxic, inflammatory, and carcinogenic effects on lung tissue cells and those depressant effects on macrophage and neutrophil function and killer cell activity (you know, the stuff that prevents you from becoming all infected and whatnot). Oh, and who cares about the eventual development of negative reinforcement (because those first few highs are worth it, you know) and the decreased motivation and increased suicidal tendencies and the relationship to myocardial infarction and stroke. And who cares about the whole other realm of possibilities that could be out there in which this drug is harmful to your health.

 

There's just not a lot of long-term research on the drug's physiological effects, especially when we take into consideration that it's likely normally used in conjunction with other substances. So take that into consideration before you start calling people ignorant for expressing a negative opinion and a distrust for the drug. Because, frankly, I think that something with so many negative connections to long-term health already shouldn't be something anyone should be ingesting.

Edited by Panz

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El Dildo

Yeah, forget about the toxic, inflammatory, and carcinogenic effects on lung tissue cells and those depressant effects on macrophage and neutrophil function and killer cell activity (you know, the stuff that prevents you from becoming all infected and whatnot). Oh, and who cares about the eventual development of negative reinforcement (because those first few highs are worth it, you know) and the decreased motivation and increased suicidal tendencies and the relationship to myocardial infarction and stroke. And who cares about the whole other realm of possibilities that could be out there in which this drug is harmful to your health.

this is all hyperbolic rhetoric. I'm sorry Panz but you're equally misinformed.

this doesn't address reality.

 

I'll say it again; marijuana is not perfect. but let's unpack your rhetoric.

shall we? I mean, you've decided to enter this debate but you've done so with an alarming deficit of knowledge on the subject.

 

  • 1) yes; when you smoke marijuana that = carbon combustion which = toxic carcinogens.

     

    1A) marijuana can be consumed in a variety of ways without smoking which means you can eliminate this risk from the equation entirely should you so choose. edible's, vapor's, oil's, tincture's, sublingual's, transdermals, topicals, the list goes on... you don't have to smoke it anymore.

    1B) there are literally thousands of other things in the environment that you inhale every single day that produce the exact same toxic carcinogens. and compared to almost all of them, the detrimental effects of marijuana smoke are virtually negligible.

    1C) medical research out of Israel (backed by similar research in Holland and Portugal) has shown that THC may actually suppress tumor growth while increasing blood flow to most other types of bodily tissue cells (especially in the epidermis).

     

  • 2) yes; there is causal evidence to support a link between early onset use of marijuana and negative cognitive development. yes; there is evidence to suggest that heavy use could possibly trigger dormant mental psychosis (in rare cases).

     

    2A) the exact same thing can be said of alcohol on both counts, which is perfectly legal and endorsed by almost all aspects of society.

    2B) no one is suggesting that children should have access to marijuana. it should be as strictly controlled as anything else.

    2C) almost 99% of people who use marijuana experience none of these potential side effects; they are not "eventual" as you incorrectly described them. they are extremely rare among regular, adult marijuana users.

     

  • 3) yes; marijuana could make you lazy or impair your typical level of motivation.

     

    3A) the exact same thing could be said of countless activities, pass-times, and other common drugs like excess caffeine use, sugar intake, or sodium levels. and don't forget the horrific, detrimental, crippling side effects of perfectly legal prescription drugs which put more people in the hospital and in the funeral home every month than marijuana does in 10 years.

    3B) marijuana does not produce suicidal tendencies in anyone who wasn't already somehow prone to them. in relation to potential psychosis which is already extremely rare, there is no evidence to suggest that marijuana increases the users predisposition to suicide.

    3C) almost all medical research on THC indicates that it alleviates symptoms associated with stroke or stroke-induction. THC - and more specifically, CBD, which is also found in all marijuana leaves - calms the nerves, relaxes muscles, increases blood flow to the skin, and reduces inflammation in joints, veins, and arteries.

     

  • 4) there's no such thing as a "whole other realm of possibilities." there is lots of long-term research on marijuana's effects on the human body. there is no evidence to support the statement "normally used in conjunction with other substances." most regular marijuana users do not consume marijuana with other intoxicants. they will occasionally, but not typically. it's also technically irrelevant in terms of this debate.

     

    human beings have been consuming marijuana for longer than almost any other substance known to mankind. it predates tobacco, alcohol, and almost all common foods/drinks/medicines we commonly use today. marijuana grows almost anywhere and everywhere and it can be used exactly as-is straight off the stock, fresh from the flower, right out of the ground. it doesn't require sophisticated expertise to grow or harvest or produce. the research is in because we have been performing it on ourselves since the dawn of time. marijuana is virtually harmless and produces almost zero negative side effects outside of those that the user is actually seeking.

     

    as far as concrete medical and scientific research in the last 100 years or so, that jury is equally settled.

    you may have been fooled by your local DARE program, and it seems like you believe a lot of the things you've heard about marijuana when it comes to the horror stories. but the scientific and medical communities are already way ahead of you on this issue. they know that there's very little to fear from marijuana. just because your politicians and your church-folk give it a bad rap, doesn't mean they have a clue what they're talking about. the US might be stagnant on this topic but medical research has been ongoing on THC in places like Israel and Europe and India since the 1940's.

     

Panz I'm sorry; but if you were honestly so concerned about our physical and mental health you would be crusading against 10,000 other things before cannabis. cannabis does not have "so many negative connections to long-term health." it is not anywhere near as bad for people as the myriad of other things in this world that we already let them use. to deny people access to marijuana is cruel.

 

it really does provide them with a safe and healthy alternative to alcohol when they still want to unwind after work, but don't wish to poison their liver.

and it really does help people who are wasting away from HIV/AIDS or numerous types of cancer. it restores their appetites, it restores the moisture in their skin, it suppresses the nausea of chemotherapy, and it does all of these things without any of the painful side effects that you get from the prescription pharmaceuticals that come with cancer treatment.

and it really does decrease the rate of macular degeneration and glaucoma symptoms.

and it really does show signs of attacking parasitic tumors.

 

don't be on the wrong side of history Panz.

you don't ever have to use marijuana. I don't care. dislike it all you want. but don't be ignorant.

Edited by El_Diablo

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BrownBear

While I support legalisation and am a heavy user, I really hate when people make out like it's some wonder drug with no ill effects. I can tell you first hand, if you smoke it too much in the wrong situations, it really can f*ck you up. I know at least 3 people with serious mental illness (Bipolar, psychosis) which can directly be linked to heavy use of weed.

Also, to say it's not addictive is just wrong. I would say I am addicted (Or at least have a heavy habit), but I know people that are seriously addicted to it, people who genuinely can't function normally without a smoke and get angry and depressed when not stoned.

I'm all for the use of weed, I love it (Probably too much), but like any drug you have to treat it respectfully, it can be very powerful.

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El Dildo

I know at least 3 people with serious mental illness (Bipolar, psychosis) which can directly be linked to heavy use of weed.

I'm sorry but you don't actually know that.

bipolarity constitutes a spectrum of chemical imbalance (usually hormonal) in the brain. medical research to date has not found a link between bipolarity and THC intake. the cases in which THC itself can actually be linked to the induction of a mental psychosis is extremely rare and I doubt that you know "at least 3 people" in this category. you might know 3 people with mental issues, but to claim that they were all 'victims' of marijuana use is junk science.

 

marijuana is not addictive.

marijuana can be habit-forming and it can create habitual dependency, but dependency is not addiction.

 

you seem to be conflating "addiction" with "dependence" when these 2 concepts are not synonymous with each other.

 

THC is not physically or chemically addictive.

when you use THC every single day for years and then suddenly stop cold-turkey, your body will NOT degrade into painful, uncontrollable, seizure-like spasms of withdrawal. that simply does not happen with marijuana. it cannot happen. it never happens.

 

but that ALWAYS happens with other traditional drugs. you ALWAYS experience painful withdrawals when you stop taking addictive drugs.

and while marijuana certainly creates a habitual dependency it's not addictive.

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eroch

 

Being a depressant, marijuana makes you lazy and/or unable to be productive.

 

Also, being a jerk isn't caused by alcohol consumption.

 

1.) marijuana is not a depressant.

 

2.) no one said that alcohol makes you a jerk.

 

your argument sucks.

alcohol and tobacco cause immeasurable social and health problems in this world but they're completely legal.

 

while it's not perfect, marijuana doesn't cause anywhere near the amount of societal and health problems as the other things that we already let people use. there's no good reason why marijuana should be illegal. and just because you know a few lazy stoners doesn't mean it should be remain illegal. if you think marijuana should be illegal you're ignorant, misinformed, and standing on the wrong side of history.

 

get over it.

 

He said

 

 

In terms of civil rights and common sense, marijuana should be legalized. But, I don't really want it legalized for the sole reason that everyone I know that smokes pot regularly is either:

A: A slacker

B: A jack%$# who tries to pass off his marijuana smoking to other people as 'natural'

don't be stupid.

 

at least half the people I know who drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes are lazy, racist, assholes.

do I generalize and want to outlaw alcohol and tobacco?

 

no.

you can't use that argument against marijuana because it doesn't hold any water.

 

lazy people will be lazy with or without the ability to smoke pot.

 

That sounds like you said alcohol can and has made people jerks. That, or you chose to add it for no reason whatsoever. There is literally no good reason pot should be legalized, other than as a social victory. Also, and this part responds to Rown as well:

 

Almost all weed and illegal grown drugs originate in Central America and northern South America. The trade of drugs to Americans and weapons and cash back to the cartels allows the cartels to continue their trade. This trade makes them extremely rich, and in many parts of Central and South America, cartels have more influence than the government. The Mexican government in particular has had an extremely hard time fighting the cartels. The cartels get back at these governments by murdering innocent civilians. The drug wars are horrible in these countries. These people are so rich that legalizing weed wouldn't make them suddenly die out from lack of funds. They could potentially massacre Mexican civilians as a form of revenge. They're armed to the teeth. In this raid specifically,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas#Law_enforcement_raids

a virtual ammo dump of weapons and munitions was found by law enforcement officers. And this is just one of many safehouses. It's not like they're some guerilla band that annoys the government. They're paramilitary forces that oppress innocent Mexicans. They murder civilians just for fun. If their biggest moneymaker goes bust, they'll spend all their time propagating actually dangerous drugs like Cocaine or Heroin, which is a potential negative effect. Also, back to my first point here, they could elevate their violence against Mexicans in anger.

 

Also, Federal Law still states that weed is illegal in all US land. If the President visits Colorado and a Secret Service agent catches you with a blunt, he can legally detain you. The only way to completely legalize weed would be to make it a constitutional amendment, and that process is way too hard to achieve in this decade.

 

Side note, why do you want weed to be legal? The second it becomes legal, prices will rise because of our screwed up prices of medicinal drugs, which weed will inevitably be declared. It can run you over $100 for simple pills that would cost <$10 in any other country, same will happen to weed on a national scale. And don't get me started on regulation or distribution, which will be decided by the FDA in association with pharmaceutical companies.

Edited by eroch

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BrownBear

 

I know at least 3 people with serious mental illness (Bipolar, psychosis) which can directly be linked to heavy use of weed.

I'm sorry but you don't actually know that.

bipolarity constitutes a spectrum of chemical imbalance (usually hormonal) in the brain. medical research to date has not found a link between bipolarity and THC intake. the cases in which THC itself can actually be linked to the induction of a mental psychosis is extremely rare and I doubt that you know "at least 3 people" in this category. you might know 3 people with mental issues, but to claim that they were all 'victims' of marijuana use is junk science.

 

marijuana is not addictive.

marijuana can be habit-forming and it can create habitual dependency, but dependency is not addiction.

 

you seem to be conflating "addiction" with "dependence" when these 2 concepts are not synonymous with each other.

 

THC is not physically or chemically addictive.

when you use THC every single day for years and then suddenly stop cold-turkey, your body will NOT degrade into painful, uncontrollable, seizure-like spasms of withdrawal. that simply does not happen with marijuana. it cannot happen. it never happens.

 

but that ALWAYS happens with other traditional drugs. you ALWAYS experience painful withdrawals when you stop taking addictive drugs.

and while marijuana certainly creates a habitual dependency it's not addictive.

 

Whether or not they had pre-existing mental health issues, smoking cannabis seriously brought that out of them. As for the other two, they were involved in other drugs as well so it's debatable.

 

OK, maybe it's not physically addictive. Serious dependency on weed is no party, I've known people addicted to MDMA and Cocaine and to be honest, the people seriously dependent weed smokers were in worse states.

 

I just think the way people talk about weed makes it seem like it's faultless and perfect and while it is great, it can be really sh*tty if you abuse it.

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sivispacem

There's conflicting evidence on whether THC is chemically addictive in and of itself. Most research suggests there's some interplay between individual users and the drug- in the sense that any substance that alters the uptake or production of chemicals that interact with the brain's receptors can be chemically addictive. As a mood altering chemical, THC has a physiological addiction potential but the question of whether or not that arises directly from the brain developing a dependence on THC intake for receptor antagonist release or reabsorption as is the case with stuff like Phenethylamines is pretty much unanswered.

 

It's not linked to physical dependence though.

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