Military..Why should it come back?

[Mr.Moffat]

I see alot of people complaining about the lack of military retaliation in gta and that got me thinking whydo people really want them back?

 

In the old gta's I hated them purley because it really was'nt fun having your car instanly explode when you clipped a tank, especially when you are going at vey high speeds, the barracks OL was useless as it was slow and it only carried two soldiers.

 

Now in gta 4 people always say they were taken out for realism, but I think there is more to it. IN 4 the police enforcers cannot keep up with you at all making them fairly useless in a chase, so how would heavy military vehicles fair?

 

LC has a lot of cars on the road and some roads are really narrow and twisty that even the cop cars can barely stay on them without crashing, how would a tank work? they would be stuck somewhere half the time same goes for the barracks ol.

 

Soldiers would prob act the exact same way as noose swat would so I don't see the advantage.

 

With the new driving physics cars in gta4 are less precise and more slidey so how are we going to avoid tanks? plus loads complain about cop cars spawning in front of them, I really don't want a few tanks appearing ahead of me.

 

Now one thing I never want to see is the tanks or whatever being able to actually fire on you, giving the AI free reign with explosive weapons this includes frag grenades is a terrible idea that will become very anoying. People say it's cool, but they only think it's cool because they are imagining it where things always go the way they want it to. THink of all the times in gta4 when you just steal a new car when in a chase and just as you start the engine the tyres blow, annoying ya.......now replace that with explosives.

 

The only real time I liked the military in gta was in SA when they had 1 or 2 fighters chase you in plane and fire the odd missile at you that was cool and fun so that should come back.

 

To sum up I don't see why the military is so missed, There are other ways for gta to introduce military weapons eg army base or weapons dealer so ya do you agree and if not why??

[ryan_J]

Military wasnt taken out of IV for realism infact it does the oppisite because if I killed 300 police officers in the same day believe me id have a lot more than just a swat team after me.

 

I understand your point about tanks spawning in front of you and shooting at you but we dont know anything about V yet so it might not have that problem with police cars and therfore tanks.

 

But your right about what you said there shouldnt be masses of army guys after you, Just a few tanks a few army guys a military chopper or the fighter planes from SA but only at a 6 star wanted level. I hope bring back some sort of military.

[Mr.Moffat]

 

Military wasnt taken out of IV for realism

 

Just stating what nearly everyone says, realism is the excuse for nearly everything in the old gtas not being in 4, not programming issues, time contraints just realism realism realism!

[LCollusions]

I forgot what I was gonna say

-Remembering, Oh well-

Tanks and the Military in SA, were really fake, those were the old days, am sure R* will give us something new and improve! They did an awesome job with RDR! Right?

[The_Mario_Man]

I haven't played in a while but if I remember correctly, the APC in TBoGT didn't instantly explode any vehicles it touched - it just crushed the hell out of them. If tanks and military vehicles were brought back, I'm sure that would be the case. Although getting your car ran over by a tank would probably be enough to kill you anyway. Or at least make the vehicle unusable.

 

I'm gonna make a wild guess and assume that the fact that vehicles in the previous games just exploded when hit by a tank was a way of working around the lack of physics to depict realistic damage from getting crushed. Whether exploded or crushed, the vehicle ends up useless anyway. The only negative is with the explosion, you didn't really have time to escape.

 

I guess for tanks attacking you with their cannons, that may have not only been a balancing issue, but an exercise in realism. I doubt even the military would go firing tank cannons and launching rockets and whatnot at a speeding vehicle in the middle of New York/Miami/Los Angeles/etc. That said, I think that tanks and HMMWVs should at least have gunners manning the machine gun turrets.

 

As far as the Barracks OL goes, I think that was a balance issue. The truck it's based on (The M35A2) can hold upwards of 20 soldiers in the back of it. Dealing with all of that at once without some heavy explosives would be hell. Especially if multiple trucks are pursuing you. I guess they could have scaled it down and just stuffed 2 or 3 guys in the back instead, but whatever.

Edited May 8, 2011 by The_Mario_Man

[Darkshade12]

There's an easy solution to the things you said. Your point about the barracks OL could be easily fixed r* could add more seating capacity easy, also they could make the tank so it doesn't blow up your car when you instantly hit it (Which they alredy done with the APC in TBoGT) and also the point about heavy vehicles not being able to catch up - They could add military Humvee/ATV that could keep up with you.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Darkshade12

[Leve-O]

I think a Military Humvee would be a great idea! Imagine, there could be a soldier on the back shooting at you with an M60!

[Magic_Al]

I think the lack of military in GTA IV was to riff on how militarized "civilian" law enforcement has become in the last decade. They replaced the military wanted level of past GTAs with a parody of Homeland Security to try to capture some of the post-9/11 vibe in New York (even though in the GTA universe 9/11 is replaced with unspecified "tragic events a few years ago").

[Kwandilibro]

If there were tanks and sh*t in IV, you would be f*cked once you got those 5 stars. No questions asked, off to the hospital for you.

[GTA_stu]

Forget about when we're getting chased by tanks and issues concerning that aspect, that's not important. The main reason for the military is so that WE can drive a tank. If that's the only reason we have military then that's a pretty good reason to me.

[paul]

Well they could make the swat/noose team more competent with tactics such as:

 

 

- using flashbangs and smoke grenades to confuse and disorientate the player;

-flank the player.

-Rappel from a helicopter to the rooftop/highspot nearest to the player's current location.

-and riot shields.

 

 

of course if R* couldn't bother with anything of that, they could just send hundreds of military personnel that will eventually trap you in a barn and shoot you to sh*t.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhistleBlower]

Forget about when we're getting chased by tanks and issues concerning that aspect, that's not important. The main reason for the military is so that WE can drive a tank. If that's the only reason we have military then that's a pretty good reason to me.

Exactly.

 

Also, it wouldn't be such a bad thing to see the mounted soldiers on a tank rip your car apart or even crush it... tires popping, metal bending, blood spraying outside from the windows etc. I was reading some new info on Saints Row: The Third in the newest PlayStation magazine and the guys and gals at Volition are adding so many crazy and fun stuff to do that it simply blows my mind. GTA V is going to have some serious competition as far as the sandbox genre is concerned. Oh, are tanks too difficult for you? Maybe that's the f***ing point, dude. A six-star wanted level isn't supposed to be a walk in the park.

[HipHopHeadSeb]

- using flashbangs and smoke grenades to confuse and disorientate the player;

-flank the player.

-Rappel from a helicopter to the rooftop/highspot nearest to the player's current location.

-and riot shields.

 

that kind of thing Should happen at like 4-5 stars.

[paul]

- using flashbangs and smoke grenades to confuse and disorientate the player;

-flank the player.

-Rappel from a helicopter to the rooftop/highspot nearest to the player's current location.

-and riot shields.

 

that kind of thing Should happen at like 4-5 stars.

yeah, but if they actually used such advanced and deadly tactics there would be no need for military intervention...

I just posted an example, there definitely is alot more tactics and equipment used by today's SWAT teams and the such

[GTA_stu]

Also, just because we have military in the game, it doesn't mean that they have to chase us in tanks when we get to six stars. They could make it so that they use armoured humvees and assault rifles for example. Maybe if we use a tank, and only then, will they then use tanks against us.

[Little William]

If the military would ever make a return, I have some ideas. Tanks should not be used to chase cars but to use as roadblocks in parts of the city. The military vehicles that will be chasing you would be either APCs or armoured Hummers with mounted guns. The Hummers could be armed either miniguns or M2 heavy machine guns. The miniguns can caused critical damage to your car if they shoot at it long enough so you need to drive in a zig zag pattern to avoid them. Whereas the M2 would be the badasses. It would only take a few shots of the M2 to put your vehicle at critical damage (ie putting your car on fire), so when you see the Hummers with M2s, avoid them like hell and try to use the buildings as cover (meaning involving turning a lot of corners).

 

As for APCs, their damage is around the same with M2 Hummers but they are much slower so they are much easier to avoid. But watch out for tanks though. Even if they are slow as a snail, but they make it up for their big guns, which got excellent range. If they hit you too close with their guns, the collateral damage could render your vehicle useless. Avoid them (as roadblocks) at all costs.

[WhistleBlower]

I want the firepower that the military uses on you to have a powerful effect. The way I see it, a six-star wanted level needs to be scary, you know, have you on edge, yet still remain fun. Little William has the right idea. But maybe kick the severity of the situation up a bit. Add some apache helicopters whose bullets can literally tear chunks of your car apart (i.e. one of your front tires gets blown away and what follows is your vehicle flipping over with pieces of metal and glass flying about.) Or perhaps the roof of your car is blown away. Simply getting out of the car and into the path of a hail of bullets rips off chunks of your body depending on the weapons being used. I like the whole zig-zagging on the street to dodge your enemies thing. Strategy is always good.

[CryptReaperDorian]

@Little William: A M134 on a HMMWV is a huge no. I think the M2 is acceptable, but I prefer that a M240 is used instead. I also agree that tanks should mostly be used in roadblocks while the HMMWVs chase. The tanks (I prefer a M1A2 Abrams) should also feature the M240 along with the tank having a two person capacity.

 

@WhistleBlower: I don't think I want an AH-64 Apache shooting at me unless it uses the chain gun in short bursts.

[WhistleBlower]

@Little William: A M134 on a HMMWV is a huge no. I think the M2 is acceptable, but I prefer that a M240 is used instead. I also agree that tanks should mostly be used in roadblocks while the HMMWVs chase. The tanks (I prefer a M1A2 Abrams) should also feature the M240 along with the tank having a two person capacity.

 

@WhistleBlower: I don't think I want an AH-64 Apache shooting at me unless it uses the chain gun in short bursts.

Okay, short bursts. Fair enough. But yeah, combined with tanks acting as road blocks, humvees chasing you, as well as police cars and bulky SWAT vehicles following suit (maybe they even accidentally collide with one another for dramatic effect), it's going to be fun as hell.

[UserCommenter]

Its funny when people say the IV driving physics are unrealistic compared to the 3 era. lol I mean seriously people, is there no one that drives a car irl? IV has way more realistic driving physics compared to the older style. Go play GT5 and complain that their driving physics isn't like gta3 era. See how long you last with that argument with them.

[CryptReaperDorian]

@WhistleBlower: Yeah, short bursts is probably best. The 30mm round is meant to destroy or heavily damage even the most modern tanks. I'd rather be dodging tank rounds than a 30mm chain gun that is constantly raining down on me. Oh, and the local law enforcement should still be present. If the army is after you, then there is probably a quite large bounty on you. If there is a large bounty on you, then pretty much anybody that is armed will try to kill you (at least people that are law enforcers).

 

@UserCommenter: I don't know if it's as realistic as it can be, but the driving is definitely better than it was in the previous games. Vehicles in the previous games were either so heavy that they stuck to the ground and could brake instantly, or they were so light that they tipped from a simple turn or from braking. I don't mind the more arcade driving physics, but I say it was about time for GTA to move ahead in that department.

[NotoriousKiller]

It should have the National Guard, not military. Fits in with the realism that R* wants.

[UserCommenter]

 

@UserCommenter:  I don't know if it's as realistic as it can be, but the driving is definitely better than it was in the previous games.  Vehicles in the previous games were either so heavy that they stuck to the ground and could brake instantly, or they were so light that they tipped from a simple turn or from braking.  I don't mind the more arcade driving physics, but I say it was about time for GTA to move ahead in that department.

Didn't say it was totally realistic. Its quite far from that... Though its way more realistic then the 3 era was. Looking back at it after getting done playing IV and GT5 its just a pain to drive around it feels so arcadey.

Edited May 9, 2011 by UserCommenter

[WhistleBlower]

@WhistleBlower: Yeah, short bursts is probably best. The 30mm round is meant to destroy or heavily damage even the most modern tanks. I'd rather be dodging tank rounds than a 30mm chain gun that is constantly raining down on me. Oh, and the local law enforcement should still be present. If the army is after you, then there is probably a quite large bounty on you. If there is a large bounty on you, then pretty much anybody that is armed will try to kill you (at least people that are law enforcers).

Of course. I never suggested that they should leave. It would make no sense. When I mean certain vehicles colliding with one another, I mean in response to pedestrians that would accidentally get in the way. Either that or they abruptedly stop. It's not like the law enforcement or military would run over anyone other than the person they're chasing.

[Raptomex]

I think the military should come back. Maybe add an extra wanted level or something. Like the first military wanted level would have soldiers in military patriots after you and barracks. The second level would have that and tanks after you. I think that would be cool.

[AceRay]

depends where it is set. There isn't any military or barracks in NY/LC, so army ain't likely there, but maybe in other places.

[GTA_stu]

depends where it is set. There isn't any military or barracks in NY/LC, so army ain't likely there, but maybe in other places.

I find it hard to believe that cities as large and important as NY would not have any significant military presence either in them. I mean I live in a city that has a population of 300,000 (UK) and we have at least 3 barracks here. And your telling me that a city as large as NY doesn't have any military or barracks?

It doesn't even matter if NY didn't have a miltary presence in it, because erm yeh that's right there's these things called WHEELS allowing vehicles to move around. So even if there wasn't a military base in the next GTA it would still make perfect sense to see tanks and other military vehicles. For continuity you could just say they came from somewhere nearby.

[EmPty CaSInGz]

Tanks? Umm... I don't know about that. Would the army deploy tanks in a built up area? Seems like it'd be a bit hard. Maybe in the countryside, but not in urban areas. On the actual topic, I missed the army in IV. There was so much scope for military tactics, what with the new cover mechanic, but no, we got SWAT who just flood the room with no concern for their own safety. In a room clearing situation, the first man in goes to the left hand side of the room, the second to (I think) the right side, the third man to the far left and the fourth to the far right. In IV they'd just run in and get in each other's way. Smoke and flash grenades are a good idea, too. Maybe some pepperpotting/tactical bounds for realism.

[HipHopHeadSeb]

Tanks? Umm... I don't know about that. Would the army deploy tanks in a built up area? Seems like it'd be a bit hard. Maybe in the countryside, but not in urban areas. On the actual topic, I missed the army in IV. There was so much scope for military tactics, what with the new cover mechanic, but no, we got SWAT who just flood the room with no concern for their own safety. In a room clearing situation, the first man in goes to the left hand side of the room, the second to (I think) the right side, the third man to the far left and the fourth to the far right. In IV they'd just run in and get in each other's way. Smoke and flash grenades are a good idea, too. Maybe some pepperpotting/tactical bounds for realism.

100% agreed

[grandtheftautovideogamer]

You ask why the military should come back.....

So when some idiotic person decides to run down a couple of peds and shoot a cop in the head, then rob a bank and kill the bank clerk bcuz he or she refused to empty money to a bag. That's why! Oh and because if the guy is so awesome that he is bulletproof and can get away from the cops as well as the swat team. That would be another reason why.

 

End of conversation.