GTA Going Back to Roots & Some!

[Mister Pink]

In this topic, I want to concentrate on rewards for longer lasting replay-ability outside of the main storyline which I think IV lacked.

 

I was thinking about having a protagonist who was a classic, hard-as-nails, c*nt. He has little morals and would f*ck over his nearest and dearest for a bit of money. Sound cliched? Well he doesn't have to be and Rockstar can be good at this thing. He obviously doesn't have a big square jaw-line, big muscles and a crew cut like all the other cheesy game characters but more of he can have a dirty scumbag look about him - like Niko. This guy is money-hungry and will do what it takes to get to the top.

 

Return of the classic Rags to riches GTA storyline.

 

Ok, so you are doing sh*tty crimes (brings back burglaries from San Andreas) and trying to make some more cash. Early missions leave you with not much choice than to rob pedestrians either violently - raising cop awareness - or non violently pickpocketing skills/burgalry skills (brings back upgrading skills from San Andreas)

 

Not upgrading skills again, you say? Well, I think upgrading skills gives you a great sense of reward. For example, you put the time in the game driving and you get rewarded with better driving skills. Finally getting your pilots licence and stuff gave me a great sense of achievement in San Andreas and going for gold in my driving licence gave me a sweet hotrod. My mates were all envious I had that hotrod, haha. I notice it's in other games more too and if done right it just makes you feel better as you go a long. There's a sort of evolution between you and the character's gameplay skill.

 

 

So after burglaries are back you start to earn cash. There's no point in earning cash in a game like GTA if there is not the a feeling instilled that:

A. It's precious, useful to buy very useful things.

B. You can lose it all if your stupid about it by gambling it all away or something (brings back gambling - casinos - horse racing + more)

 

Gambling would be in and getting your gambling skill up. More rewards for playing the game. You can borrow money from the casino too (brings back debt from San Andreas)

 

Money had to be a big part in the game. It has to be a motivator for the gamer and the protagonist. I didn't feel like I was controlling Niko because I related to him or something in the game I felt like I was controlling Niko for Niko's sake..Niko didn't want to gambling, he wanted to play darts with his friends or drink and get revenge. That's all. But, we all know what it's like to want money and wanting money in the game would be realistic and identifiable with your character.

 

So, imagine you start off piss poor and you cycle down in to a rich residential area and you see nice cars and houses and one of them is for sale. There's an icon to buy it but it's over a million dollars. This house is lovely and it has a big garage to save all the cars you robbed (brings back garages to save cars). You notice it has a helipad too. You look at your funds and see you only have $259. This where you see something in game you want but can't have it yet. If you play the fun game more you can have it. Re-playability

 

Remember this is outside of storyline missions. Just stuff to do when your not in the mood to be doing the story.

 

Say it's mafia themed. You can recruit guys for missions for cash. More stuff to spend money on. More experienced guys cost way more and you can't really afford these guys till your quite rich. You can use these guys for bigger bank heists or casino heists.

 

You can buy unique clothes, cars, boats and planes but they cost a lot. Unique cars you buy will be in your garage in multiplayer free-roam and in respective classes in racing on multiplayer.

 

I also thought it would be cool if there was three major decisions to be made in the game. The decisions aren't really revenge or no revenge, or good or evil but greed or generosity. You can sell your family out for more money and go to war you you can be generous not earn so much but be safer. If you choose to be greedy you'll earn waay more money but will have to spend more money for protection and always hire guys to be around you as theres always someone trying to whack you in certain family controlled parts of the map.

 

So basically there lots of ways to earn money and lots to spend it on with plenty of rewards for playing the game with a huge 100% bonus such a a unique code to downloadable content such as character customisation.

 

 

Just some food for thought. What you guys think?

Edited February 6, 2011 by ThePinkFloydSound

[TommyMufc-Champs]

I like your idea man. It would bring something really interesting.

[Mokrie Dela]

some interesting thinking there. One of teh problems i had with SA weapon skills was the FORCING you to dual weild guns. Sure it'd be cool to but sometime i may not want to

 

IV was really lazy with some of the choices - they were a great addition but it didnt really change the course of the game - it should.

 

Money - this is perhaps imo, IV biggest downfall. Niko's always saying "I need the money" yet he has 500K in his pocket...

 

I'll tell you what i want, going back to "choices"

To be able to make decisions yourself. Take Vlad for example. where he tell you to kil Ivan. Niko says "What if i do not want to be your hitman"

Then niko says ok. But what if you, as the player could decide that? Tell Vlad to f*ck off. Sure you may get the russian mafia hating you and have to exile to bohan immediately, but such a choice could open up a strand of missions not available if you DO do the job... that make sense?

[Mister Pink]

 

some interesting thinking there. One of teh problems i had with SA weapon skills was the FORCING you to dual weild guns. Sure it'd be cool to but sometime i may not want to

 

IV was really lazy with some of the choices - they were a great addition but it didnt really change the course of the game - it should.

 

Money - this is perhaps imo, IV biggest downfall. Niko's always saying "I need the money" yet he has 500K in his pocket...

 

I'll tell you what i want, going back to "choices"

To be able to make decisions yourself. Take Vlad for example. where he tell you to kil Ivan. Niko says "What if i do not want to be your hitman"

Then niko says ok. But what if you, as the player could decide that? Tell Vlad to f*ck off. Sure you may get the russian mafia hating you and have to exile to bohan immediately, but such a choice could open up a strand of missions not available if you DO do the job... that make sense?

I agree with the duel-wielding weapons.

 

And YES! That's exactly what I'm talking about in regards to choices. I'd love it so much that I wish maybe I wasn't dealing with someone like Vlad but maybe my own family member or best friend. There was a drug deal that my friend organised but I was doing the dealing. he gets 60% and you get 40% out of the deal. After the deal is done if flashes that you have the option to kill your best friend and take ALL the money with consequences of course.

 

@Tommy: Thanks.

 

 

Just thought of something else - just goes in to more detail. When trying to buy a house, the high end houses don't have a price tag it says something like:

 

The estate agent wouldn't even talk to you in those clothes.

 

Only when you can afford an expensive suit can you look at the price of richer houses. Maybe that can be a feature in the game. Certain areas of interest are restricted to people in sh*tty or cheap clothes. So you can't go to the gentlemans club to gamble or the VIP high stakes are of the casinos until you can prove you can afford it. ie.wearing expensive suits. And the expensive suit shop doesn't open until you become a made man or something later on in the game.

 

f*ck it. This game would be perfectly set in Las Venturas. A mafia based rags to riches story. Think of the film Casino, The Godfather II.

Edited February 6, 2011 by ThePinkFloydSound

[Mokrie Dela]

interesting thought about the clothes - like My topic "Tactical Clothing" where clothes all serve a purpose and have their uses.

 

I dunno it'd work though. An estate agent, selling a $2M house, a man comes up with $3M, wearing scruffy clothes, would he say now?

 

Maybe by wearing a suit etc you'd get a better deal on the house? You can buy it for (or lower, how about a haggling mini game) market value. But turn up in the "wrong" clothes and you'd have to pay 50% extra to get it.... and even then you may get "outbided" - maybe a system that means you're bidding with others?

 

Back to the choices: The problem i think would be the focus on choices and their consequences (say each choice opens a new mission path), the rest of the game would suffer. I don't thinkg R*, the 360 or the PS3 are ready for that yet.

 

But what i DO think they can do is the following:

• Have Major and Grand* choices lead to two different story branches - that would DOUBLE replay value at the very least.

  Imagine if, by killing Derrick, Francis gives you a job and another contact, which you'll only get if you killed derrick. Kill francis, and a branch, exclusive to Derrick will appear - you end up working for his Korean friends. These two alone could change the course of the game enough for it to feel like a different story completely (but stll ending with Dimitri/Peg).

   

  Dimitri/Peg: Kill Dimitri and Peg wages war on you. A price is on your head and hitmen attack you. You'd have to work with someone to find him, THEN kill him

  Do the deal and dimitri "uses" you to kill peg, only for you to get killed. Only you survive the hit and have to hunt Dimitri down. Not the most thought out idea there, but i felt IV's split ending was lazy and very poorly done (its the same mission!)

   

  So with these choices explained you could end up working for the Pegs, but via other choices you could work for the Ancialottis.

   

• DLC could also add extra story branches, adding even more replay value.

*story points: Minor is something like letting Ivan live, or killing him. Major is like Playboy/Dwayne, Francis/Derrick or even the Darko choices. Grand, referring to the overall "main" story, is the "Deal/Revenge"

[TommyMufc-Champs]

I included Dual Wielding In my Blood On The Hillside concept thread. GTA V definitely needs this feature.

[Mokrie Dela]

I included Dual Wielding In my Blood On The Hillside concept thread. GTA V definitely needs this feature.

Only if it's optional. I did not like the way SA forced it on you. I never used those guns (macs and techs? I cant remember) because of that. Same with the pistols. I always had the silenced or D'eagle because of that.

D

I Don't think it'd be too hard to give the choice....

[Kwandilibro]

I included Dual Wielding In my Blood On The Hillside concept thread. GTA V definitely needs this feature.

Only if it's optional. I did not like the way SA forced it on you. I never used those guns (macs and techs? I cant remember) because of that. Same with the pistols. I always had the silenced or D'eagle because of that.

D

I Don't think it'd be too hard to give the choice....

Personally, I never liked duel wielding. I hated the fact that it was forced on you, because I never liked the way it looked. I'd rather have a choice, TBH.

[Claude4Catalina]

I wouldnt mind unlocking the ability to dual wield once you are at 100% skill, but make it optional. it looks bad ass in machinama's etc but in reality it'd be a bastard to control.

 

and about hiring thugs, it would be a pisser if they had terrible AI and got shot to f*ck within 5 seconds of the cops turning up, but in turn that'd give you more motivation to look out for them, they would be YOUR crew so you would need to be a leader, not just sit back while they do missions for you, that defeats the purpose.

[Finn 7 five 11]

Many say "a few features here or there doesn't mean much" but when there is say 20-50 or even a 100 features it adds up.

 

I would like to see the return of the flying/driving/boating schools.

THos things where you gotta get to the little bubbles were fun and challenging (like the patriot one on GTA III) or the NRG 500 thing on San andreas.

[deyessorc]

To the OP - great topic! I have been thinking this forever that the need to work on replayability for the single player/offline for the next GTA. Anything that encourages things to do aftere the main story is needed.

 

 

I'm not a big fan of branching storylines for replay. It's fine and all, but the problem is that after I've built up my character, I don't want to start all over again from scratch just for the sake of a new storyline.

 

For me, anway, I enjoy having more things to shoot for that unlock great rewards after or aside from doing the story. Things such as rare vehicles, rare weapons, rare abilities (perhaps new combat abilities, new toys to play with, more gang members to recruit, new clothes, new ability to burglar 'rich mansions', ability to fight higher bosses), rare characters to meet and do side missions for, etc.

 

New story branches don't provide long replayability imo. New 'toys' do.

 

GTA touched on rewards with unlocking/finding all the items (horseshoes, boxes, etc.), but where did the rewards go for every 10 boxes collected? The seagulls were horrible. You unlock one item?!?! That's ridiculous. Make finding treasures for the end of unlocking multiple items that are cool -- this makes the effort to have a point (other than trophies).

 

Other than that, I think replay will be a big factor. And i'm not thinking multi-player, although the ability to show off rare vehicles/clothes/etc. as someone mentioned above is a very welcome idea, as then you would have something to shoot for in both single and multi-player for replayability. Let new mansions, pads, vehicles, clothes be able to be seen in multi-player.

 

What would really be fun, but maybe inpractical to design at this time would be that you have a specific location/apartment/house that you own which is specific in the online/free roam world. You can upgrade from a shack--> renting an apt. ---> single family home ---> mansion online and you have that specific spot online. Or something to that effect. Would be very cool.

 

 

[Mr.Moffat]

Back to it's roots? In my eyes IV did go back to gta roots, it stripped all the added on gimmicks and focused on the driving, shooting, crime and city, thats what gta is about. It still had humour and sillyness. (Brucie, BERnie, Roman, Brian, ALL of bogt) VC and SA were just add ons of III, they were the same games basically, with slight improvements. Iv was released on next gen, they had to advance the basics, they could not have just released a slightly improved gta on ps3/360. Gta IV will act as the base for the next few games in the IV era. One way to look at it, IV is the new root.

 

I read in an old psm3 article with one of the houser brothers, way back before was released. He said IV was the game they wanted to make for ten years, they just could'nt with the old gen consoles. After reading that SAN AN made sense, all that stuff was added, just to keep the game seem new, cause SA was in reality just gta iii

 

 

[Mister Pink]

To say San Andreas and Vice City were just add-ons to GTA III is ridiculous. The are full stand-alone games with huge attention to detail, characters, cast, sountrack & features.. The concept of free-roam with Rockstars twist was revoloutionary. It's not so much now.

 

And to fob off features and advancements in GTA as gimmicks is just awful. Flying? Was that a gimmick? There's no point in defending GTA IV. It is what it is and for me a person who grew up playing GTA from the first one to Episodes...' GTA IV lacks a certain replayability that say, San Andreas had. Things I could spend hours doing in San Andreas like dog fighting to gambling - things that became almost a staple of GTA greatness was no longer there.

 

Yes, I understand it's 'stripped to basics' but not I'm talking about what 'back to the roots' as in what made most of use really fall in love with the series.

 

I don't know what GTA you played first but I played GTA from the start and I got excited when Vice City came out and you were able to go on motorbikes and use hammer and knife and fly a helicopter. Then in San Andreas you had planes and heli's and more weapons and gambling etc.

 

I didn't start this thread for a debate on whether GTA IV id good or not. It was technically superb but it's also worrying too when such activities are bowling and darts and friends ringing you constantly. I was worried Rockstar lost`their balls because IV seemed rather tame in comparisson to other GTA's. Oops went on another tangent there. I started this topic as to just add some ideas for replayability options that can be added for fun other than going on your usuall rampages or multiplayer.

 

@deyessorc: Thanks, yeah I miss rewards for every 10. The more you collect the more you get.

 

I'm know it's unrealistic to go underwater and collect clams or horsehoes but it didn't take away from the context and envoirnment. It's a game afterall and I'm not a fan of big blips in games and distractions from making a game look more real but collecting things was a bit of a chore but it was rewarding.

 

It gave you the option to go the extra mile that say your friends wouldn't go and it was cool showing off your gambling skills cause you got all the horsehoes or the extras you unlocked. In IV, when I found out you don't get much I didn't finish collecting. What was the point?

Edited February 9, 2011 by ThePinkFloydSound

[Mr.Moffat]

 

To say San Andreas and Vice City were just add-ons to GTA III is ridiculous. The are full stand-alone games with huge attention to detail, characters, cast, sountrack & features.. The concept of free-roam with Rockstars twist was revoloutionary. It's not so much now.

 

And to fob off features and advancements in GTA as gimmicks is just awful. Flying? Was that a gimmick? There's no point in defending GTA IV. It is what it is and for me a person who grew up playing GTA from the first one to Episodes...' GTA IV lacks a certain replayability that say, San Andreas had. Things I could spend hours doing in San Andreas like dog fighting to gambling - things that became almost a staple of GTA greatness was no longer there.

 

Yes, I understand it's 'stripped to basics' but not I'm talking about what 'back to the roots' as in what made most of use really fall in love with the series.

 

I don't know what GTA you played first but I played GTA from the start and I got excited when Vice City came out and you were able to go on motorbikes and use hammer and knife and fly a helicopter. Then in San Andreas you had planes and heli's and more weapons and gambling etc.

 

I didn't start this thread for a debate on whether GTA IV id good or not. It was technically superb but it's also worrying too when such activities are bowling and darts and friends ringing you constantly. I was worried Rockstar lost`their balls because IV seemed rather tame in comparisson to other GTA's. Oops went on another tangent there. I started this topic as to just add some ideas for replayability

options that can be added for fun other than going on your usuall rampages or multiplayer.

 

@deyessorc: Thanks, yeah I miss rewards for every 10. The more you collect the more you get.

 

I'm know it's unrealistic to go underwater and collect clams or horsehoes but it didn't take away from the context and envoirnment. It's a game afterall and I'm not a fan of big blips in games and distractions from making a game look more real but collecting things was a bit of a chore but it was rewarding.

 

It gave you the option to go the extra mile that say your friends wouldn't go and it was cool showing off your gambling skills cause you got all the horsehoes or the extras you unlocked. In IV, when I found out you don't get much I didn't finish collecting. What was the point?

 

 

They are of course stand alone games and reaaly good, Vice city was my first gta and it will have a special place in my heart. But SA is not the root of the gta games, Gta 1 is, I guess you could argue III is the root of the 3d games, so gtaIV did go back to the roots, it focused on driving , shooting, and crime in gemeral just like gta1 or gtaIII. I must disagree that flying being a 'staple', to me a staple is something thata been in a lot games, the rhino for example, or buster and wasted appearing on screen, those to me are gta staples, not something that was in one game, it does'nt matter how fun it was. Im not having a go, but gtaIV did go back to it's roots. SA was prob the furthest away from the series core. I like SA by the way just to put things in perspective.

 

I must diagree with R* losing their balls, GTAIV was violent dark and had a lot of shifty scenes. Plus R* made conscious decisons to take some features out, while others just were'nt able to be put in due to time or technical probs. but after playing ballard of gay tony, R* still knows how to do the old style gta aswell, so don't worry if the next gta is similar to bogt I'll be happy

Edited February 9, 2011 by Mr.Moffat

[scotiax]

.

Edited August 13, 2016 by scotiax

[Mister Pink]

snip

 

 

They are of course stand alone games and reaaly good, Vice city was my first gta and it will have a special place in my heart. But SA is not the root of the gta games, Gta 1 is, I guess you could argue III is the root of the 3d games, so gtaIV did go back to the roots, it focused on driving , shooting, and crime in gemeral just like gta1 or gtaIII. I must disagree that flying being a 'staple', to me a staple is something thata been in a lot games, the rhino for example, or buster and wasted appearing on screen, those to me are gta staples, not something that was in one game, it does'nt matter how fun it was. Im not having a go, but gtaIV did go back to it's roots. SA was prob the furthest away from the series core. I like SA by the way just to put things in perspective.

 

I must diagree with R* losing their balls, GTAIV was violent dark and had a lot of shifty scenes. Plus R* made conscious decisons to take some features out, while others just were'nt able to be put in due to time or technical probs. but after playing ballard of gay tony, R* still knows how to do the old style gta aswell, so don't worry if the next gta is similar to bogt I'll be happy

OK, I can agree with what you're saying with IV going back to the roots but I suppose I meant going back to my roots as in how I loved GTA. Too personal, perhaps.

 

I clocked about 300+ hours playing San Andreas and got 100% in that game. Yes, it was ridiculous and over the top at times and I even grilled it for that after I stopped playing it and we were anticipating IV to come out and it's more realistic graphics. I loved what I saw in IV and loved IV but after the story is done it's just not that repayable in single player.

 

I think GTA can have the over the top elements just so longs as they present it in a realistic fashion.

 

So anyway. Going off topic a little. What would you like to see in the game to replay it in single player aside from the normal story?

[Mr.Moffat]

 

OK, I can agree with what you're saying with IV going back to the roots but I suppose I meant going back to my roots as in how I loved GTA. Too personal, perhaps.

 

I clocked about 300+ hours playing San Andreas and got 100% in that game. Yes, it was ridiculous and over the top at times and I even grilled it for that after I stopped playing it and we were anticipating IV to come out and it's more realistic graphics. I loved what I saw in IV and loved IV but after the story is done it's just not that repayable in single player.

 

I think GTA can have the over the top elements just so longs as they present it in a realistic fashion.

 

So anyway. Going off topic a little. What would you like to see in the game to replay it in single player aside from the normal story?

 

 

 

 

AH I get you now, Yes I would love for more of the fun stuff to come back, I just don't want to see another game about a low life ghetto thug breaking into a military base stealing a jetpack, people seem to think we can'nt have realism and fun WRONG!

GtaIV was the ground work for this gen, they could not really have made another SA type game, straight away on next gen and if they did it prob would have suffered or just not feel updated, ie it would have seemed like an old gta with slightly better graphics.

THey can bring planes back, helicopters are still there, so why not, The 2 DLC's are good examples, the added alot of over the top and fun missions/features while keeping the FUN realistic aspects, eg driving, physics etc, so yes the next gta will be a huge improvement

San Andreas would not have been possible without the ground work of gta 3 and VC.

So planes can come back, tanks can come back

like if you want realism, A plausible way to get a tank would be to have some criminal organisation import old soviet military equipment and sell them for a price.

SO ya, gta is going to be fine, IV just etablished this gens basics, and now they will add and build, JUst don't expect another SA OR VC, there will never be one like em, even if they have similar themes and features they will still be their own games.