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cidamelo

I Completed TLAD 100% and I STILL LIKE RAY BOCCINO

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WackoJacko
She's got a point El Zilcho, my friend....

 

Anywho, it's simple. Johnny didn't trust Ray, Ray didn't trust Johnny. Therefore considering Johnny didn't want Ray to get the money, but Ray didn't trust Johnny in the first place, Ray was going to take out Johnny just in case. So the way I see it it's Ray's fault just as much as Johnny's.

 

You don't have to agree with me, but that's how I see it.

no 'she' has got no point. until i see a pic of her im not having any of this 'brazilian mother' sh*t

that talk with them equally to blame... im going with that

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perroGtA97

They didnt lose anything that much comparing with diamonds they didnt give to ray. they still would burn the club down and the deadbeats would kill them (i mean they were only 4 left) if they used money for re-do the lost mc.

 

they really had a choice like everything or nothing. they had the money at the end and that was good for them. no more brotherhood and being alive is what they could do best. i actually think some point for cidamelo is right. just johnny didnt steal from ray he stole the diamonds. they could be anyone elses even nikos.

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The Lolwut Pear
The Lolwut Pear dozingoff.gif Ray's goons saw Johnny running away with the money, and Johnny was saying "I'll not let you tell Ray I have this money" what do you want them to do?? And if I were Ray, I wouldn't trust Johnny either happy.gif

dozingoff.gif

 

Johnny had to have to the money with him, otherwise he couldn't have brought it back to Ray.

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El Zilcho

I'm posting because I'm tired of this topic being spammed to the top of the page non stop by cidamelos pointless posts. Come on you've just about single handedly kept this topic at the top of the page and it's gone too far give it a rest!

 

Yes I understand the huge irony that I myself just bumped this topic but I was just stating my point. bored.gif

Edited by El Zilcho

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cidamelo

Irish00 yes maybe it was Ray's fault, he shouldn't have trusted The Lost sad.gif

WackoJacko what does this topic has with who I am? notify.gif It's not only teenagers who likes to play games! I love games what's the problem? Do you think my hobbie should be knitting angry.gif ? sad.gif

perroGtA97 The clubhouse was destroyed by Ray's goons, they burnt it down because it was already destroyed! The deadbeats would kill, but Ray killed first because the diamonds happy.gif And they had a chance: stay with the 1 million! And they didn't have the money in the end yawn.gifThose diamonds were cursed ph34r.gif Oh people, and I just want to say, sorry if I were impolite, I don't want to be rude ok friends, I just want to debate about that game, for me, talking about the story is one of the best things in GTA! I just think that it is inconvenient when some people take it too personal, even criticizing me because my age, or something like that. C'mon people, I just want to talk about the game, if you think this is uninteresting, search another topic! There's no need to come here and calling me an idiot, or whatever barf8bd.gif

The Lolwut Pear Johnny was yelling "I'll not let you tell Ray I have this money" so obviously he was going to steal lol.gif He talked about steal the money before "Collector's Item" monocle.gif

El Zilcho spam? I don't see spam here. I'm talking about the story of The Lost And Damned! If you don't like the topic, it's not my problem, it's you who don't like to talk about it. There's nothing wrong on it, but if you don't like the topic, just post on another, there's a lot of topics around here! I don't see why can you be irritated with something so small! It's not only me who is posting on this topic, a lot of other people likes to debate the game as me! sad.gif

Edited by cidamelo

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Angel Avenue

Use spoiler tags, some people didn't beat the game yet. sarcasm.gif

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cidamelo

Angel Avenue sorry I put spoilers now blush.gif

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Jimbatron

 

The Lolwut Pear dozingoff.gif Ray's goons saw Johnny running away with the money, and Johnny was saying "I'll not let you tell Ray I have this money" what do you want them to do?? And if I were Ray, I wouldn't trust Johnny either happy.gif

dozingoff.gif

 

Johnny had to have to the money with him, otherwise he couldn't have brought it back to Ray.

Actually, according to what Ray told Niko, the plan was "give Johnny half the money, and the rest you bring back to me."

 

But given that, he wouldn't need anyone waiting for Johnny. Niko was bringing Ray his share.

 

Given that he had a small army waiting out the back of the museum for Johnny, with no way of knowing prior that Luis would arrive to shoot up the deal, it looks likely that Ray may have been planning to shaft Johnny all along - only Johnny did a better job of shafting him instead.

Edited by Jimbatron

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cidamelo

Jimbatron yes, Ray might be trying to shaft Johnny but who knows?? What we certainly know is that Johnny ripped Ray off first! cry.gif

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The Lolwut Pear
The Lolwut Pear dozingoff.gif Ray's goons saw Johnny running away with the money, and Johnny was saying "I'll not let you tell Ray I have this money" what do you want them to do?? And if I were Ray, I wouldn't trust Johnny either happy.gif

dozingoff.gif

 

Johnny had to have to the money with him, otherwise he couldn't have brought it back to Ray.

Actually, according to what Ray told Niko, the plan was "give Johnny half the money, and the rest you bring back to me."

 

But given that, he wouldn't need anyone waiting for Johnny. Niko was bringing Ray his share.

 

Given that he had a small army waiting out the back of the museum for Johnny, with no way of knowing prior that Luis would arrive to shoot up the deal, it looks likely that Ray may have been planning to shaft Johnny all along - only Johnny did a better job of shafting him instead.

That's what I meant, man.

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cidamelo

Friends I'm not understanding? Ray's goons were there in the case of something bad happens, like Jimmy Pegorino said in "Pegorino's Pride": "To keep an eye on things, 'cause they won't be looking out for you'. Sorry people if I am not understanding, I am not very good in English sad.gif Like Ray said, a lot of wiseguys were looking for those diamonds!

Edited by cidamelo

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Jimbatron
The Lolwut Pear dozingoff.gif Ray's goons saw Johnny running away with the money, and Johnny was saying "I'll not let you tell Ray I have this money" what do you want them to do?? And if I were Ray, I wouldn't trust Johnny either happy.gif

dozingoff.gif

 

Johnny had to have to the money with him, otherwise he couldn't have brought it back to Ray.

Actually, according to what Ray told Niko, the plan was "give Johnny half the money, and the rest you bring back to me."

 

But given that, he wouldn't need anyone waiting for Johnny. Niko was bringing Ray his share.

 

Given that he had a small army waiting out the back of the museum for Johnny, with no way of knowing prior that Luis would arrive to shoot up the deal, it looks likely that Ray may have been planning to shaft Johnny all along - only Johnny did a better job of shafting him instead.

That's what I meant, man.

Cool, sorry me not reading things carefully!

 

@cidamelo - I'm afraid I'm not sure I buy that. If he wanted to keep an eye on things, I'd have had my mob inside the museum. If he done that actually, he'd probably have got all his cash and the deal would have gone ahead fine. It only really makes sense to have them waiting in Ambush out the back if he was planning to rip Johnny off. Which you would want to do on the quiet, if you didn't want Isaac or Niko to know how you treat your associates after their usefullness has run out.

 

Your love of Ray is a bit clouded to say the least, but your English is very good by the way!

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cidamelo

Jimbatron yes, I see your point, but Ray's goons are all over the museum, they just don't appear in the cutscene, but when Johnny is entering the museum Johnny even say to them "I'm Ray Boccino's guy". All can I say is that we cannot be sure if Ray would rip Johnny off, but we are sure that Johnny did it! Oh maybe this is true lol.gif , but I think some people are a bit clouded when they say they hate Ray, I think much of it is just because he has a kind of "arrogant" image, and a lot of characters loved to say he was a rat, so people assume he was! I bet that if he was more "friendly" like Phil Bell people would like him more! sad.gif But, in the things we are sure, in the storyline, Ray did nothing "wrong". moto_whistle.gif Are you being ironic? Because my English is very bad, but I never had English classes, so it's a bit hard for me to write! cryani.gif

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Angel Avenue

 

sarcasm.gif When Johnny first gets to the museum, there's no one outside, only inside. When he entered, the goons came waiting for Johnny in the back.

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cidamelo

Angel Avenue their cars were there notify.gif And Jimbatron said that the Mob should be inside the museum, and they were! And probably they left the museum after the shootout?? sarcasm.gif But there's a thing I can't understand, I can't distinguish Ray's goons and Isaac's goons, because in "Museum Piece" they say "lose the Isaac's crew" but some guys seems to be Ray's goons?? notify.gif

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Jimbatron

No, not being ironic. Can't speak a second language myself (order from a menu in French, and that's about it), so thumbs up to people who can!

 

To show I'm balanced, another plus point for Ray (kind of) is that he does show genuine concern for his (un-named I think) dying buddy who has his neck slit by Jim. Implying some loyalty beyond him just being a hired thug. Of course, the fact that he's just had Jim brutally tortured with a blow torch kind of takes the shine off it.

 

Like I say, Ray's not a one dimensional bad guy. I thought it was a mistake for Pegorino to whack him just to try prove a point that he was tough. There was no evidence either him or Phil were a Rat - most likely the ULPC had him under survielance given his warning in an email to Niko, and Stubb's conversation with Johnny.

 

This said, I can't understand why anyone would like Ray more than Phil Bell. It's not just that he comes across as "nice". Phil actually gets stuck in with Niko on a fire fight on more than one occasion. Ray keeps well out of all that. You might also want to replay "To Live and Die in Alderney" and listen to the conversation if Frankie dies (throw a few careless grenades if you have to).

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cidamelo

Jimbatron I'm so happy lol.gif I thought my English was completely awful!! Yes, you're very balanced in your posts! I admit I'm at Ray's side, but I like to hear other kinds of opinion, and I like posts like yours, which shows the good and bad sides lol.gif Yes, in "Was It Worth It?" he seemed to be very sad after his goon died! I didn't know Ray could be so emotive lol.gif Well The Lost stole "his" money, what do you want him to do? He gave Johnny a lot of chances! Obviously that in real life I'm not a supporter of torture, but we are talking about GTA, do you know what I mean lol.gif ? Yes, Jimmy was very stupid to kill Ray, I don't think he was a rat, he just wasn't the type of guy who does everything his boss tells him to do. Pegorino Family was a joke, it was under heavy surveillance not because of rats, it was because they didn't have influence enough to not being in charge of justice. monocle.gif I just think Ray is a more interesting character than Phil. I like Phil too, and I think his quarrel with Ray was funny. Well if I were Ray I would keep myself far away from those shootouts ph34r.giflol.gif Phil said he would like Ray to do this job instead of himself in "Catch The Wave", but there's somethings Ray isn't trusted for. I think we should have more missions with Phil Bell! But I think Ray is better, he is my favorite character in GTA IV. alien.gif Oh is when Phil said poor of Frankie's wife, because Ray want to "bang her" lol.gif That was funny, he says like Ray wouldn't bang her if Frankie was alive. But I haven't heard Ray after Payback and Diamonds Are Girls Best Friends because I killed him before sad.gif

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Angel Avenue
]Pegorino Family was a joke, it was under heavy surveillance not because of rats, it was because they didn't have influence enough to not being in charge of justice. monocle.gif

Pegorino family was under surveillance because Anthony (or whatever his name was) ratted. sarcasm.gif

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cidamelo

Angel Avenue I know! But I don't think Tony is the only guilty. Pegorino Family was a joke, do you really think they would be under heavy surveillance if they were influent in the politics and justice? Take Jon Gravelli as example, he was friend of the government, that's why he didn't suffered lol.gif

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AlexGTAGamer

cidamelo should I tell you what Ray would say to Niko after the mission "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend"? Well here goes;

[PLOT SPOLIER]

 

Niko: "Hey, Ray. I got some bad news for you. You weren't the only one who thought they owned those diamonds. Turns out a serious Russian called Bulgarin claims ownership as well."

 

Ray: "Dammit Nicky. Cut the bullsh*t. You got 'em? Where are they?"

 

Niko:"Liberty City Dump... I don't know. They got thrown into traffic."

 

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cidamelo

AlexGTAGamer thank you my friend!! I always wanted to know what he says. Do you know what Ray says after the mission "Payback"?

AlexGTAGamer do you like Ray Boccino? It's because you signature is what he says in Action/Reaction! I like you a lot, you're very polited and friendly!!

Edited by cidamelo

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LuisBellic
3. Johnny did not like being in Ray's pocket at all and just used The Lost as cheap muscle (kind of like the Albanians) for him to get these diamonds.

I think that aswell.

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The Lolwut Pear
Jimbatron yes, I see your point, but Ray's goons are all over the museum, they just don't appear in the cutscene, but when Johnny is entering the museum Johnny even say to them "I'm Ray Boccino's guy". All can I say is that we cannot be sure if Ray would rip Johnny off, but we are sure that Johnny did it! Oh maybe this is true lol.gif , but I think some people are a bit clouded when they say they hate Ray, I think much of it is just because he has a kind of "arrogant" image, and a lot of characters loved to say he was a rat, so people assume he was! I bet that if he was more "friendly" like Phil Bell people would like him more! sad.gif But, in the things we are sure, in the storyline, Ray did nothing "wrong". moto_whistle.gif Are you being ironic? Because my English is very bad, but I never had English classes, so it's a bit hard for me to write! cryani.gif

When you go outside, there are 4 more cars and several goons outside.

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Jimbatron
AlexGTAGamer thank you my friend!! I always wanted to know what he says. Do you know what Ray says after the mission "Payback"?

AlexGTAGamer do you like Ray Boccino? It's because you signature is what he says in Action/Reaction! I like you a lot, you're very polited and friendly!!

He doesn't call after "Payback", but he does after the previous Jimmy mission, Peggorino's Pride

 

<phonecall from Ray - the next day>

Ray So, Nicky, you and the Peg is getting close I see?

Niko He's got work, he pays. That's about it.

Ray Yeah? Well, remember who made the introduction. Remember who brought

you in, don't you forget about me. If you wanted to pass something up

to me... pay me some tribute.

Niko Sorry, Ray. I'm freelance. I don't buy into that tribute stuff. This

work has many disadvantages, but, hey, at least it is tax free.

 

 

Also, if you haven't played through the Gerald McReary Missions before Pest Control is complete, this is the conversation after Ransom:

 

<phonecall from Ray - later on>

 

 

Ray Nicky, I hear you and the Irish have got your hands on Ancelotti's

daughter.

Niko What's it to you?

Ray It wouldn't be nothing, except I know that Ancelotti ain't gonna pay

up. It's her pal, Gay Tony, that's coughing up with my damn ice. The

diamonds that got robbed off you in the Libertonian. Well, we took it

off Tony in the first place, but it shoulda ended there. He must have

robbed the diamonds off of Isaac.

Niko I got the money robbed off of me by a biker, remember? The diamonds

were sold.

Ray Don't get smart with me. Get me them diamonds off Tony. The Irish'll be

square with that and you'll be square with me.

Niko We're already square.

 

 

 

There's a fairly comprehensive list of all the dialogue here:

 

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/933036-grand-t...o-iv/faqs/58223

 

However, there are some phone calls that seem to be missing. For instance, Ray's call after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" seems to be absent.

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AlexGTAGamer

Aw shucks cidamelo blush.gif , anyways yeah I like Ray I especially liked his line from the beginning cutscene from the mission Action/Reaction which is in my signature as can be seen. colgate.gif

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cidamelo

Jimbatron thank you, I've already know these dialogues, I thought there was a dialogue after "Payback" because GTA Wikia said it. monocle.gif

The Lolwut Pear probably they called for reinforcement?I don't know notify.gif

AlexGTAGamer don't be shy my friend I think you're one of the best users, you are very friendly! lol.gif I love that cutscene! I didn't expected Ray to appear so early in the game, and I love when he scoffs Billy, Billy thinks he is so funny devil.gif And I loved his casual outfit too, don't you think Ray was a little biker with those clothes lol.gif ?

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AlexGTAGamer

Yeah Ray does kind of look like some sort of biker with his non-business clothes on. lol.gif

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cidamelo

Yes that outfit is great smile.gif

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Mati

Cid, I don't think you spotted that Ray only used Ashley to get the diamonds. He was terrible. He gave her drugs and played her love only because she has connections to the Lost.

Edited by mati1501

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cidamelo

mati1501 I think that he began to date Ashley just because the diamonds. But I think that later he felt in love for her. In "Taking In The Trash" we can see that he was worried about her, and he haven't given her drugs! Actually, he was against it! He calls her an "white trash mother******" in "Taking In The Trash" because she took drugs, and in the end of the cutscene she says: "You got to get me off the drugs, Ray", so we can deduce that he tries to keep her out of the drugs. notify.gifmoto_whistle.gif

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