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DaTsar

Why are Christians so opressed?

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DaTsar

From the Church bombings in Egypt, Armenian Genocide, terrorist attacks, communistic governments, and all the way to "evolved" countries working against us, I'll have to ask, why are people trying to expel God from our lives? Lets hear what you got to say.

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Tyler

Every religion is oppressed, and Christianity is no exception. Arguably enough, we're also the largest denominational religion in the world. Especially in the 'evolved' worlds you speak of. I'd like to continue this discussion, but we need something more than 'why do we get hated on'.

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DaTsar
Every religion is oppressed, and Christianity is no exception. Arguably enough, we're also the largest denominational religion in the world. Especially in the 'evolved' worlds you speak of. I'd like to continue this discussion, but we need something more than 'why do we get hated on'.

I know but the problem is that Christians are actually more oppressed in the countries where we are majorities. I mean in America we got groups that want to eradicate Christmas and tried to ban Christmas trees in all of Chicago. In Russia 40 million Christians were killed when the commies took over. When I was in school a couple years back i said His name and the teacher told me not to mention the word God in school. I mean whatta hell is that?

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Tyler

There is always persecution and opposition of religion. Natural order is to question things, and it's only natural that we would question the answer churches give us. Besides the fact, if you are a Christian, you know as well as any other Christian that you will be prosecuted for your beliefs.

 

EDIT: As a side-note, I'm not going to elaborate on the Chicago stuff and Russian murders. You need to pay attention in social studies and learn why the Communist system doesn't approve of religion.

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The-King

Was watching Al-Jazeera earlier in regards to the church bombings in Egypt and the thought popped into my head that while Christians don't deserve the flack they get, Muslims get it much worse (then they brought it up while discussing the finer points of the situation in fact). For every Christian killed in the modern world a much larger amount of Muslims get killed. Why should any religion get special treatment from the media or otherwise? Especially when it's a fact that there are religions out there that are being hit much harder and persecuted to a far more extreme extent while getting virtually nil coverage.

 

@OP: No religion is allowed in public schools in any way, shape or form and it should stay that way. You should have been smacked for trying to bring up a religious point in a social studies class unless the specific thing you were studying revolved around religion or some form of religious struggle.

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DaTsar

I didnt bring it up in front of class, i was talking amongst my friends. Very good point, unoriginal44. The commies silenced religion so that people would have nothing to unite behind and would have to accept the communistic dictatorship. basically what is happening right now is a slowed down version of Russia's communistic takeover.

 

 

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GrandMaster Smith

Why are they so oppressed? It was prophesied that true christian will be an objects of hatred by others in the end days. In my eyes it's just another prophecy being fulfilled.

 

But may I ask you, if you call yourself a true christian, why would you celebrate christmas in the first place? Its origins are actually a pagan holiday that has absolutely nothing todo with Jesus..

 

False religions are being used to demean the truth, and will be used to bring down the true religion.

 

Pursue YHWH/Jah/Jehovah, for from all my research so far has gone to show that they who follow him and his word are the true christians. Like alot from what I've researched what the Jehovah Witnesses teach are spot on with what the bible teaches and that there is ALOT of disinformation about the group, such as they are part of an occult and that they're involved with witchcraft and all kinds of nonsense that turns out to be completely farse.

 

I'm not too much of a religious person, but if you do your own research and don't let others opinions sway your beliefs without looking it up for yourself things will just start to make sense. I always thought of the bible as just a book of fairy tales to keep us under control, but really the message of the bible is very very different. Such as how we are in a time of governance right now, showing that humans are not capable of governing themselves and it is only too obvious when looking at the world around us today..

 

I just can't stand how intelligent people will dismiss god just because the image that false religions have portrayed god as and claim that science is proof that god doesn't exists.. its like you can't use a knife to cut itself cause a tool can't be used on itself, just like how science is the process god used for creation, but you cannot use science to explain god, only qualities of him.

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Typhus

We aren't really being oppressed. It's all about you personally.

If you are a liberal, tolerant Christian who actually puts Christ's message to some use, then people will treat you fairly. But if you're a fundementalist, an extremist, a bigot, then let's be fair, you deserve to be mocked.

 

The liberalisation of Western society is a great thing, for too long we have remained in the dark ages. Afraid of further knowledge or exploration. But now we are beginning to change all that, yes, there will be some inevitable growing pains. But one must alter his beliefs to fit the society he lives in. Otherwise, what sets you apart from the misanthrope standing on a street corner and ranting about lizard-men?

 

We aren't being persecuted, but if you have a problem with Atheism it is only natural that Atheists are going to fight back. Calm, measured, private belief is the answer.

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Struff Bunstridge

Let's face it - Christianity held sway over vast sections of the globe for the best part of two millennia. People may be starting to reject the Christian doctrines in ever increasing numbers as science moves to the fore in the worldview of much of the developed world, but you can't say you lot haven't had a good run out.

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SPMovies
For every Christian killed in the modern world a much larger amount of Muslims get killed.

There's a difference, Muslims are killing each other.

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Minus the Boom
From the Church bombings in Egypt, Armenian Genocide, terrorist attacks, communistic governments, and all the way to "evolved" countries working against us, I'll have to ask, why are people trying to expel God from our lives? Lets hear what you got to say.

You speak of "the government", yet only your latest example actually has to do with that government - even if I'm not sure what government you are talking about. The apparent ban on Christmas trees and other bullsh*t like that are the results of the opposite of extremist believers - extremist disbelievers who for some reason can't cope with people having beliefs other than them.

 

This world would be a far better place if everyone would just keep their religion to themselves, but that goes against thousands of years of human behaviour I guess.

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DaTsar

The way i see it I can tolorate any religion other than mine, but when 80 percent of the US population's beliefs get silenced by the government as to not "offend" a small minority who would most likely be okay with it, something must be wrong.

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Kratos2000

There is just no reason to believe in god anymore.

 

In ancient ages god was the answer for everything, they needed god as 'hope'

Not only that we already have almost all the answers, religion might be a gift and it might be a source for chaos.

There are two examples:

The people who keep religion to themselves, and drain this hope by themselves without taking control of other's beliefs.

and these who force their religion by the blade.

 

I won't even point out which one is who, I'll just leave it at this.

 

 

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Minus the Boom
The way i see it I can tolorate any religion other than mine, but when 80 percent of the US population's beliefs get silenced by the government as to not "offend" a small minority who would most likely be okay with it, something must be wrong.

That's a problem that exceeds just affecting religion though. These days people are offended by basically everything whereas 90% of that could be fixed by, you know, just not paying attention to it. But that's our modern civilized free world for you I suppose... some people just aren't very fond of it.

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General Goose

Christians? Oppressed? Not really, not to any major extent in Western nations when compared to other religions.

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Ari Gold
The people who keep religion to themselves, and drain this hope by themselves without taking control of other's beliefs.

Can any Atheist actually explain why that's a bad thing? Surely, that's the best solution for everyone.

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Tyler

I thought Stefche would point out for me, but if you ever feel like you're being oppressed just look at the history of the Jewish people. Especially in the predicted 'end times' of the Bible, their numbers will dwindle to exactly 144,000.

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E.A.B.

Wait, the Armenian Genocide?

 

That was almost a century ago. It would be one thing if these events were occurring in a short timespan.

 

But no. They aren't.

 

f*ck, the whole IDEA is laughable. Christians, persecuted? That's like hearing white people say they are being persecuted.

 

It's f*cking HILARIOUS.

 

No, you AREN'T being persecuted. The persecuted are simply fighting back nowadays.

 

Yeah yeah, I know, it's not as if atheists were hung 50 years ago or as if white people aren't beat up. But you get what I'm saying here. Those that were the standard and majority are being questioned. It's not persecution. It's more like, 'Hey, why doesn't everyone agree with me anymore?!?!?!'.'

 

 

The apparent ban on Christmas trees and other bullsh*t like that are the results of the opposite of extremist believers

 

I also agree with this. Sure, Christmas has religious undertones. But it is so far gone from being overtly religious and has become such an American tradition by now.

 

It's message is vague anyway, and can be applied to humanity in general.

 

sh*t, what am I talking about. CHRISTMAS HAS NO MESSAGE

Edited by E.A.B.

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Typhus

To be frank I never understood why Atheists and Theists couldn't get along. As the concept of God cannot be proven or disproven, we both have core ideas that are not based on proof but instead a mixture of faith and logic. And these core ideas we both defend and protect vehemently. An Atheist could no more convince me to abandon my faith than I could convine an Atheist to convert to Christianity. And even if I could, I wouldn't want to!

Our differences, our disagreements and squabbles. These are what make life worth living.

All I hope for is that one day these disagreements take on a far friendlier tone than the constant bile both sides can exhibit on occasion.

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GrandMaster Smith

I just dont like seeing practically anyone who believes in god on mainstream media is portrayed as nerdy, stupid, out of touch with reality, oblivious to facts ect..

 

Like there is this whole vibe about christians being portrayed on the tele that is just absurd, yet thick skulled people will register it as reality and apply it to real life. Don't get me wrong, there's alot of stupid people out there, and yes some of them believe in god and they don't deeply research anything other than their beliefs and just make them look uneducated. There's a difference between stupid and not being properly educated.

 

For those who say we don't need god, the bible is fully farse, there is so scientific evidence, I came across this earlier and just wanted to get others point of views on this as well(just letting you guys know I didnt write this myself, just came across it)-

 

 

most people who believe it was an 'accident' not created believe the earth and everything in it we see today came about by these steps:

 

heaven and earth

light

dry land

plants

small animals and birds

big animals

man

 

did you ever notice that the bible said this as well? it also agrees with the time.

 

but first i would like to point out that 1 day to god is 1000 years, as said in 1 peter 3:8

 

However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day

 

the first few chapters of genesis must have been written by the perspective as if someone was on earth.

Genesis 1

 

1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 

2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep.

 

the universe and the earth existed, and the earth was little more then a rock filled with water, and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

 

this was before a day. so this could have been a countless amount of years

 

3 And God proceeded to say: “Let light come to be.” Then there came to be light.

 

this, from perspective of earth couldn't have been direct light, since the air was full of dioxide.

 

In the description of what happened on the first “day,” the Hebrew word used for light is ’ohr, light in a general sense; but concerning the fourth “day,” the word used is ma·’ohr´, which refers to the source of light.

 

then came volcanic activity, which created land, which science agrees with

 

9 And God went on to say: “Let the waters under the heavens be brought together into one place and let the dry land appear.” And it came to be so.

 

now what of the carbon dioxide? everyone knows that one thing on this earth makes carbon dioxide into oxygen. vegetation.

 

11 And God went on to say: “Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, upon the earth.” And it came to be so.

 

as science has agreed, this, over time turned the carbon dioxide into oxygen. after this, this thick cloud went away. so evidently, proper 'days' could come.

 

14 And God went on to say: “Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years.

 

17 Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, 18 and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness.

 

now we have a fourth day.

 

now, evolutionists say that life in water came first. wow

 

21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds,

 

'day' number 5

 

some think these sea animals evolved into creatures that could breath oxygen and leave the water

 

25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.

 

day 6

 

so we all know animals came before humans, so where are they now?

 

27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.

 

then, he rested on day 7

 

this is in the EXACT order science has proved it to be.

 

now, moses wrote genesis, over 4000 years ago, how on earth would he know all this? or know the sections in the first place?

 

 

 

Any opinions on the passage above? There are also counts in the bible where it describes the evaporation cycle, also briefly describing the current cycles in the ocean along with wind cycles as well. Also places where it describes the earth as a sphere rather than being flat which many had believed back then.

 

How were these supposedly so primitive people able to tell of all these things without some sort of connection to the one that put them in place??

Science has no clue to what was present before the big bang, why would it be so absurd to assume that it was god? There's nothing here that tells us it's impossible, it's just hard to wrap human understanding around it.

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Icarus

Most of what I needed to say was summed up by E.A.B. quite nicely.

 

As for Christians being oppressed, I do find that quite laughable. Why? Simply put, history would suggest that by making a few comparisons, Christians are a hell of a lot more guilty for oppression than agnostics and atheists. As E.A.B. mentioned, the whole persecution of the Jewish people and what about the Spanish Inquisition? Or what about when England broke off from the Catholic Church and then Catholics were being persecuted?

 

Don't get me wrong, though, there have been persecutions by atheists, although in general, it has to do with the government promoting an atheistic state (i.e. USSR, People's Republic of China, Socialist People's Republic of Albania... the list goes on). Still, though, besides that, you generally don't see a global persecution of believers from atheists (it's generally restricted to a country, although there will be exceptions).

 

 

When I was in school a couple years back i said His name and the teacher told me not to mention the word God in school. I mean whatta hell is that?

 

Separation of church and state. Unless you go to, say, a Catholic school, then religion has no place within the boundaries of the school walls.

 

 

But may I ask you, if you call yourself a true christian, why would you celebrate christmas in the first place? Its origins are actually a pagan holiday that has absolutely nothing todo with Jesus..

Yeah, wasn't Jesus supposedly born in July?

 

 

We aren't really being oppressed. It's all about you personally.

If you are a liberal, tolerant Christian who actually puts Christ's message to some use, then people will treat you fairly. But if you're a fundementalist, an extremist, a bigot, then let's be fair, you deserve to be mocked.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point. I, myself, am an atheist, but I have nothing against people who believe in religion and I would never give someone hell for being a believer. I do, however, have a problem when someone shoves their religion in my face or calls me stupid for being an atheist. I do not shove atheism into peoples' faces, so I expect in turn that people will not shove religion into mine.

 

 

We aren't being persecuted, but if you have a problem with Atheism it is only natural that Atheists are going to fight back. Calm, measured, private belief is the answer.

 

You nailed it, good sir.

 

 

Let's face it - Christianity held sway over vast sections of the globe for the best part of two millennia. People may be starting to reject the Christian doctrines in ever increasing numbers as science moves to the fore in the worldview of much of the developed world, but you can't say you lot haven't had a good run out.

 

Exactly! It's basically a case now of the tides starting to turn. For all those years, the church controlled everything and science was, unfortunately, no exception. The best example of this comes from our good friend Galileo. As most of us know, he proposed the heliocentric (the Sun being at the center of the universe) model, which was in direct violation of the teachings of the church, which was the geocentric (the Earth being at the center of the university) model. Instead of allowing science to move forward and prosper, Galileo was jailed for heresy, because he decided to contradict the teachings of the church. This is, of course, just one example of the church oppressing science.

 

 

For every Christian killed in the modern world a much larger amount of Muslims get killed.

There's a difference, Muslims are killing each other.

 

...and Christians aren't? Here's a modern day example: the Protestants and the Catholics fighting in Northern Ireland.

 

 

This world would be a far better place if everyone would just keep their religion to themselves, but that goes against thousands of years of human behaviour I guess.

 

Agreed.

 

 

To be frank I never understood why Atheists and Theists couldn't get along.

 

Although you acknowledge the fact that no side can prove their claims, that's exactly why theists and atheists can't get along (well, at least the extremists - the ones who keep their beliefs to themselves should be able to get along fine, as long as they don't get into a debate about religion). The theists are so convinced that a god exists and do not require proof of this, whereas the atheists are so convinced that any god does not exist and again, require no proof of this, so it would only be natural for them to not get along due to the clash of ideologies. Agnosticism is basically the safe ground, although you might get people from the other side telling you to stop sitting on the fence.

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Minus the Boom
The people who keep religion to themselves, and drain this hope by themselves without taking control of other's beliefs.

Can any Atheist actually explain why that's a bad thing? Surely, that's the best solution for everyone.

It's not. People who say that are not only atheists but also religion haters, whatever the fancy term for that is.

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Typhus
The people who keep religion to themselves, and drain this hope by themselves without taking control of other's beliefs.

Can any Atheist actually explain why that's a bad thing? Surely, that's the best solution for everyone.

It's not. People who say that are not only atheists but also religion haters, whatever the fancy term for that is.

Wait, so if I say 'It's best to keep your religion to yourself', I am therefore an Atheist?

If that's what you're getting at, I can only tell you that you are very misinformed.

 

Consider the following:

 

1. God gives man free will.

2. Man uses that free will to worship God.

3. Man joins other men and creates a 'right' way to worship God.

4. Goodbye free will!

 

By keeping your faith private, you remain free. Free from human power structures, free from Simony, free from all the things that make intelligent human beings into mindless drones who serve only to fill a donation box and clap when the preacher man says so.

 

Jesus Christ saw the hypocrisy of these shysters. And then his followers created the same groupings that BRED that hypocrisy and corruption to begin with. The fancy robes, the grand churches, the DVD's and the books and the TV shows.

Your faith is free, your faith is YOURS, it's not a damn sideshow, it's not a theme park or a shop.

 

But when you share your faith with the world, that is exactly what it becomes. Because for every good idea about sin and redemption there are thousands of men willing to turn that idea into a f*cking gift shop or cartoon.

 

Private faith is the ultimate vanguard against all the human forces that try to cheapen your opinion and mould it into a submissive, controllable sludge.

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dog_day_sunrise
The people who keep religion to themselves, and drain this hope by themselves without taking control of other's beliefs.

Can any Atheist actually explain why that's a bad thing? Surely, that's the best solution for everyone.

It's not. People who say that are not only atheists but also religion haters, whatever the fancy term for that is.

Sorry, what?

Religion is personal- or at least it should be. It should be about your personal connection to a higher power or deity, and a celebration of your personal spirituality. Those who "spread the word of god" tend not to encourage religious spirituality, but mindlessly promote religious scripture instead. I am an athiest- I see no more evidence for a higher power than I do evidence of the existence of dragons or unicorns. However, I do not talk down to people who are "religious"- I am not anti-religious or anti-spiritual, everyone is entitled to their personal beliefs. However, what I can't stand is when those who believe treat others as if they are inferior for not sharing in their personal spiritual world.

 

A secular society is a happy society, IMHO. Secularism discorages religious hostility and promotes tolerance.

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d0mm2k8

I'm an atheist and I have no problem if someone believes in a god or two. Hell, even a magic miracle prophet; whatever helps them live life, eh?

 

But what I really can't stand is when some powerful religious coot blurts about scientific fact or even theory been untrue.

 

Call me ignorant, but I refuse to bother discussing with someone who is very religious AND refuses to believe scientific theory/fact that has more evidence. f*ck, even evidence at all.

 

 

Sorry if I've offended but this sh*t comes from back when I was 5 and I was punished at school for refusing to pray to God.

Damn, at the age of 9 I even got detention for telling people that Darwin was right and the Bible was wrong.

 

Hated primary school. So much.

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Icarus
...when I was 5 and I was punished at school for refusing to pray to God.

Damn, at the age of 9 I even got detention for telling people that Darwin was right and the Bible was wrong.

 

Hated primary school. So much.

See, I don't agree with you being punished under the rules of separation of church and state. Then again, I see by your flag that you're from the UK and I'm not sure if you guys have the equivalent of separation of church and state. The only reason I say that is because as a Canadian, Elizabeth II is our head of state as well and if I recall, she's the head of the Church of England, so there is no separation between church and state as it is represented by the same person. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

 

Another thing that irks me as a scientist and hopefully one day a teacher is that "intelligent design" is being taught in the classroom like a science and the argument is, "Well, let's keep it balanced: let's get a perspective from science and religion." NO! Science stays in the school and religion stays in the churches; we don't impose science on the church, so I sure as hell don't appreciate the clerics imposing religion in the schools. I've said it before and I will say it again: science and religion do not go together.

 

Just the name "intelligent design" pisses me off; they're trying to make it sound like it's actually scientific. Just a load of crap if you ask me.

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Chorup
I thought Stefche would point out for me, but if you ever feel like you're being oppressed just look at the history of the Jewish people. Especially in the predicted 'end times' of the Bible, their numbers will dwindle to exactly 144,000.

What's your point? Most, if not all religions have gone through a time of ongoing and great oppression. The Jews are no exception.

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Struff Bunstridge

I'm pretty sure that was his point; in the long run, Christians are no more oppressed than anyone else.

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dog_day_sunrise
For every Christian killed in the modern world a much larger amount of Muslims get killed.

There's a difference, Muslims are killing each other.

 

...and Christians aren't? Here's a modern day example: the Protestants and the Catholics fighting in Northern Ireland.

Just to butt in here...that they aren't. Haven't been for about a decade now.

 

Islam is the only religious in modern times with such violent conflict between it's two principal factions. Sunni and Shia have been fighting and killing each other on a reasonably regular basis since about 700AD, but since about 1970 it has escalated dramatically. The Iran-Iraq war, and the 03-10 Iraq War both saw large degrees of infighting- the latter almost civil war- between Sunni and Shia, and there are frequent violent confrentations between them across most of the Arabic world- Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia.

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Oxidizer
There is just no reason to believe in god anymore.

 

In ancient ages god was the answer for everything, they needed god as 'hope'

Not only that we already have almost all the answers

Nail on the head.

 

And before this Bible lark people believed in a vast number of deities - so if God is real, then what on earth happened to all of those other so-called immortals way before "His" time? These religious people can't just believe in one myth and not countless others - what makes this latest one so special?

 

They're just brainwashing themselves and each other and ruining the world and other people's lives in the process (and doesn't that sound like a good enough reason for these same people to all suffer eternity in hell? wink.gif ).

 

As to why Christians are being 'oppressed'; they reap what they sow.

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