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Tetsuo2501

Senate votes to end military ban on gays

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Tetsuo2501

 

WASHINGTON — In a landmark for gay rights, the Senate on Saturday voted to let gays serve openly in the military, giving President Barack Obama the chance to fulfill a campaign promise and repeal the 17-year policy known as "don't ask, don't tell."

 

Obama was expected to sign it next week, although the change wouldn't take immediate effect. The legislation says the president and his top military advisers must certify that lifting the ban won't hurt troops' fighting ability. After that, there's a 60-day waiting period for the military.

 

"It is time to close this chapter in our history," Obama said in a statement after a test vote cleared the way for final action. "It is time to recognize that sacrifice, valor and integrity are no more defined by sexual orientation than they are by race or gender, religion or creed."

 

The Senate vote was 65-31. The House had passed an identical version of the bill, 250-175, on Wednesday.

 

Repeal would mean that, for the first time in American history, gays would be openly accepted by the military and could acknowledge their sexual orientation without fear of being kicked out.

 

More than 13,500 service members have been dismissed under the 1993 law.

Story: House passes repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'

 

Rounding up a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate was a historic victory for Obama, who made repeal a campaign promise in 2008. It also was a political triumph for congressional Democrats who struggled in the final hours of the postelection session to overcome GOP objections on several legislative priorities before Republicans regain control of the House in January.

 

 

"As Barry Goldwater said, 'You don't have to be straight to shoot straight,"' said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., referring to the late GOP senator from Arizona.

 

Sen. John McCain, Obama's GOP rival in 2008, led the opposition. The Arizona Republican acknowledged he didn't have the votes to stop the bill and he blamed elite liberals with no military experience for pushing their social agenda on troops during wartime.

 

"They will do what is asked of them," McCain said of service members. "But don't think there won't be a great cost."

 

In the end, six GOP senators broke with their party on the procedural vote to let the bill move ahead and swung behind repeal after a recent Pentagon study concluded the ban could be lifted without hurting the ability of troops to fight.

 

'Long fought battle'

Advocacy groups who lobbied hard for repeal hailed the vote as a significant step forward in gay rights. The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network called the issue the "defining civil rights initiative of this decade."

 

Supporters of repeal filled the visitor seats overlooking the Senate floor, ready to protest had the bill failed.

 

"This has been a long fought battle, but this failed and discriminatory law will now be history," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign.

 

The Pentagon study found that two-thirds of service members didn't think changing the law would have much of an effect. But of those who did predict negative consequences, a majority were assigned to combat arms units. Nearly 60 percent of the Marine Corps and Army combat units, such as infantry and special operations, said in the survey they thought repealing the law would hurt their units' ability to fight.

 

The Pentagon's uniformed chiefs are divided on whether this resistance might pose serious problems.

 

'Distraction'

Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos has said he thinks lifting the ban during wartime could cost lives.

 

"I don't want to lose any Marines to the distraction," he told reporters this week. "I don't want to have any Marines that I'm visiting at Bethesda (Naval Medical Center) with no legs be the result of any type of distraction."

 

Adm. Mike Mullen and Marine Gen. James Cartwright, the chairman and vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, respectively, have said the fear of disruption is overblown. They note the Pentagon's finding that 92 percent of troops who believe they have served with a gay person saw no effect on their units' morale or effectiveness. Among Marines in combat roles who said they have served alongside a gay person, 84 percent said there was no impact.

 

Link (MSNBC)

Link 2 (Ass.Press)

Link 3 (Reuters)

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Brown Sugar

good news for gays who want to join the army

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dog_day_sunrise

Thank f*ck for that. Finally, the US has thrown of the shackles of being just about the only developed Western democracy that openly persecutes homosexuals in the military.

Shame it wasn't ten years ago when every other nation that wasn't a sh*thole did it.

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Typhus

Hopefully the Republicans don't just undo this when they get back into power.

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Machiavelli's Prophecy

 

Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos has said he thinks lifting the ban during wartime could cost lives.

 

"I don't want to lose any Marines to the distraction," he told reporters this week. "I don't want to have any Marines that I'm visiting at Bethesda (Naval Medical Center) with no legs be the result of any type of distraction."

What does he mean with ''distraction''? He's afraid gays will now be f*cking eachother instead of fighting the war? What a retard haha.

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Germaniac_84

I have no problem with it at all. If they want to serve in the military let them, we can use all the manpower we can get.

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darthYENIK

Now women need to be allowed into combat units, and not just stay in the rear with the gear.

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The-King

 

Now women need to be allowed into combat units, and not just stay in the rear with the gear.

Doesn't even Israel utilize women in combat units? I'm pretty sure Russia has since WWII at the very least. We really need to get with the times.

 

Thank f*ck for this, we really need to get over this religious conservatism bullsh*t and this is certainly a massive step in the right direction.

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Vercetti27

do you think gays would want to spend all that time in the hot desert risking their lives everyday? I mean obviously theres plenty of patriotic gays out there who would want to fight but I can't imagine loads of them suddenly signing up. tounge.gif

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Kevin...

I agree with King...but this is what I thought of:

 

user posted image

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WHAT!?

I agree with it... thing is though. It served as protection for homosexuals as well. Even if society at large is ready for this that doesn't mean that there wont be individuals that take matters into their own hands. I won't be surprised if violence against homosexuals in the military increases a bit after this is instated. Still, it is a step forward...

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Mainland Marauder

This sounds like a job for the............REPUBLICAN SPACE RANGERS!

 

user posted image

 

(That comes to mind, what with all the homoerotic undertones in those cartoon shorts)

 

But yeah, for one day at least I can say I'm pleased with Congress.

 

Between a brave gay man or lesbian and a cowardly heterosexual, I know who I'd rather have on my side.

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baptiste
This sounds like a job for the............REPUBLICAN SPACE RANGERS!

 

user posted image

 

(That comes to mind, what with all the homoerotic undertones in those cartoon shorts)

 

But yeah, for one day at least I can say I'm pleased with Congress.

 

Between a brave gay man or lesbian and a cowardly heterosexual, I know who I'd rather have on my side.

Just gonna point this out...but what about between a brave hetero and a brave lesbian/gay.

 

Not homophobic or anything but I know who I'd pick. confused.gif

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Mainland Marauder

I couldn't care less, baptiste.

 

Racial and religious integration was more or less pioneered on the battlefield when it meant squat what color anyone's skin was, or who or what they worship or don't worship. Now that we've arrived in the 21st century, it's time to further advance as a civilization.

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baptiste
I couldn't care less, baptiste.

 

Racial and religious integration was more or less pioneered on the battlefield when it meant squat what color anyone's skin was, or who or what they worship or don't worship. Now that we've arrived in the 21st century, it's time to further advance as a civilization.

I didnt say the contrary. But as far as killing, I'd just rather have a hetero. I dont know why, perhaps its the possible stereotype of being "softer" when your gay or something.

 

Sounds really homophobic dont it?

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Mainland Marauder
I couldn't care less, baptiste.

 

Racial and religious integration was more or less pioneered on the battlefield when it meant squat what color anyone's skin was, or who or what they worship or don't worship. Now that we've arrived in the 21st century, it's time to further advance as a civilization.

I didnt say the contrary. But as far as killing, I'd just rather have a hetero. I dont know why, perhaps its the possible stereotype of being "softer" when your gay or something.

 

Sounds really homophobic dont it?

Not homophobic as such, just very simple-minded and dependent on stereotypes formed largely by pop culture in its formation as an opinion. But we all have those, don't we?

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uNi

I bet there's a lot of gay guys in the army today, you wouldn't "recognize" them, Bap.

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Chimpso

This is how the problem is caused:

 

Officer: Private! Shoot that man!

Gay Soldier: I can't. He's adorable.

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baptiste

I can feel the hostility, It wasnt ly intention to seem ignorant.

 

Is it a total fallacy that gays are generally less "tough" for lack of a better word than heterosexuals?

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makeshyft

Baptiste, I know a number of gay guys who could whip the living sh*t out of you, or anyone else for that matter.

 

It's a stereotype.

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baptiste
Baptiste, I know a number of gay guys who could whip the living sh*t out of you, or anyone else for that matter.

 

It's a stereotype.

confused.gif

 

Thats what you have to resort too? "Gay people could beat you up"?

 

I made it extremly clear that I didnt know if it was or wasnt a fallacy. No need for you to pull the "X could beat you up" super-argument.

 

You also dont know me, who I am or could be. I know making wild assumptions over the net is cool and stuff, but its completly retarded.

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Tchuck

Gays worked pretty well for the spartan army, and many other ancient civilizations.

Heck, as long as there's someone out there willing to fight, let him fight.

At least in America, military service isn't usually compulsory.

In Brazil, when you hit 18 you have to attend the selection process. They usually pick the ones that don't want to serve, and send away those that really do want to serve.

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Ari Gold

I'm intrigued by Typhus' comments; is it possible for the Republicans to repeal this once they achieve power in the Lower House?

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Mainland Marauder
Thats what you have to resort too? "Gay people could beat you up"?

Wow, did you swing and miss hard on his point. bored.gif

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Moonshield

 

I agree with King...but this is what I thought of:

 

user posted image

SPHINX! *snap*

 

Whatever, if any gay dude in the military has combat skills like Shore Leave, give that guy a promotion.

 

I'm really glad this sh*t is over with. It really doesn't effect a person's ability to perform their duties like they need to, just as skin color, creed, gender, or whatever doesn't.

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baptiste

 

Thats what you have to resort too? "Gay people could beat you up"?

Wow, did you swing and miss hard on his point. bored.gif

I realize it was his way if saying they could be equally "tough" thank you. He could have been slightly more smart and subtle about it dont you think?

 

Not only was he insinuating that beating someone up made you somehow"tough". Hell, I could beat up a toddler, does that make me tough and fit for the armed services? I didnt think so. Even better, the gay guy could probably beat up a cripple, I dont deny it. Still doesnt make him tough.

Second off, the quantity of stupidity he showed in the formation of his argument is baffling. A more appropriate and convincing argument along the same lines would have been easily found and one I would probably have heartily agreed with.

 

I was just trying to point out the general absurdity of his post and argument. I wasnt disagreeing with what he was attempting to communicate to me nor did I misunderstand him.

 

 

Oh, wait, I almost forgot, I'll put a bored smiley face just to emphasize how bored I am with what you said.

 

bored.gif

 

Did it work?

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makeshyft
Thats what you have to resort too? "Gay people could beat you up"?

Wow, did you swing and miss hard on his point. bored.gif

I realize it was his way if saying they could be equally "tough" thank you. He could have been slightly more smart and subtle about it dont you think?

You obviously don't know me.

 

I decided to put about as much time and effort into my point as you put into your question. Your ignorance about members of the gay community isn't really worth a f*cking thesis, as you clearly have your misconceptions, and it's not very likely that you're going to break them any time soon. I'm not going to pander to your stupidity. I simply don't have time to hold your hand and guide you through life. Hell, if I saw a bus bearing down on you I sincerely doubt I'd call your attention to it. That's how little I care about you and your snide comments.

 

Good usage of smileys, by the way. Really shows your intelligence.

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Doink

makeshyft, that was so gay...:B

 

I am super happy that the ban has been lifted but am also dumbstruck as to why it took so freaking long. Better late than never though, right?

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baptiste
Thats what you have to resort too? "Gay people could beat you up"?

Wow, did you swing and miss hard on his point. bored.gif

I realize it was his way if saying they could be equally "tough" thank you. He could have been slightly more smart and subtle about it dont you think?

You obviously don't know me.

 

I decided to put about as much time and effort into my point as you put into your question. Your ignorance about members of the gay community isn't really worth a f*cking thesis, as you clearly have your misconceptions, and it's not very likely that you're going to break them any time soon. I'm not going to pander to your stupidity. I simply don't have time to hold your hand and guide you through life. Hell, if I saw a bus bearing down on you I sincerely doubt I'd call your attention to it. That's how little I care about you and your snide comments.

 

Good usage of smileys, by the way. Really shows your intelligence.

I'll just point out a few things, because you either didnt read, didnt understand, or simply disregarded my posts completly.

 

Yes, I am ignorant about the gay community and gay people in general. I have not met, or had the opportunity to meet gay people and thus dont know much of anything about them. I never said the contrary, and it looks like you are ready to hang me for it, which is quite frankly abit ridiculous.

 

I pretty much asked a question, with no aggresivity, homophobia, or anything of the sort. My question was simple and didnt require a f*cking essay. Simple questions sometimes require complicated answers and stating that you'll put as much effort into your answer as I did into my question is ridiculous at best and defies the very point of asking an explanation.

You obviously understood what I was asking and responded to it, it would have simply been a matter of formulation in a non-retarded way. I simply pointed out that the way it was said and communicated was frankly, retarded.

 

I may have some misconceptions, but you'd be wrong in thinking they cant be changed, the reason for those misconceptions are my ignorance to the subject at hand.

If you not gonna "walk me through it" then why dont you kindly f*ck off? I dont really care weather you want to explain it to me or not, I didnt ask you. I was hoping someone might want to explain it to me, it would have been a whole lot more effective than the sh*t your trying to pull.

 

 

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