Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Arena War
      2. After Hours
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA Next

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

JOSEPH X

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Recommended Posts

Ilya

Didn't think I'd come back to this, but I did for something pretty good. Had just one run in 2015 because Bethesda's current design philosophy allowed me to see everything with very easily figured-out strategic saves/reloads and PC commands to test skills, races, etc. and to skip the garbage "radiant" quests. The technically-handcrafted quests often tempted me to use the auto-complete/skip command too, and overall Skyrim badly lacks as a so-called "RPG", partly explained in the spoilered.

Spoiler

 

Say I want dialogue, a key aspect for roleplay, to help differentiate and build characters. Unfortunately, this dialogue is very shallow and limited, both mechanically and the words themselves - so Skyrim doesn't allow me to satisfyingly roleplay thru dialogue.

 

Or say I'd like to play a nonlethal role, and dialogue doesn't have to be consistently deep because I'd want a variety of nonlethal options for different contexts. I'd never enjoy a poor off-brand role (outside of quests) tho; no, a true role in organically completing the storyline and many side quests (obviously not the Dark Brotherhood) by a character that exclusively uses stealth, certain spells, dialogue, etc. to never kill nor rely on companions to. For the main story, Bethesda could've made it where we have a choice to rebanish the evil dragons and thus avoid killing, tho endanger future generations - that'd spice up the storyline a bit (e.g. some NPCs oppose it and there'd be unique quests/branches instead of going to the afterlife place). For another example, perhaps we could've had the choice to set up Mercer to be locked up (maybe a chance to escape later) or even sent to Nocturnal's realm with a pile of lockpicks and an unpickable lock. However, I'm often given absolutely no choice but to kill to complete quests - so Skyrim doesn't allow playing a nonlethal role.

 

Or say I don't care about being able to have a consistent play style - I just want a lot of satisfying interactions in general. For instance, the war is touted, yet it's really weak. Putting aside that the two questlines are mostly reskins and riddled with brain-dead "radiant" quests... As I support a side, I would've liked seeing Talos worshipers increasingly rooted out or minorities persecuted, and not just insignificant NPCs as I'd much rather have characters involving quests lost/altered/unlocked. And how about giving mages depth with stances on the war? And we'd have a variety of tactics from assisting to assassinating key mages to bring the college to a side. Tactical choices = different consequences, like several mages may come to despise me, making it hard to become arch mage or if I am already then the same mages oppose/support my war choices and have to be handled in the those ways but altered dialogue. The ability to choose from lots of quests is nothing special - there should be rich choices within, and consequences shouldn't be limited to a quest/questline. Sadly, the game is dominated by weak/nonexistent choices in shallow, linear quests that almost never impact each other or anything - so Skyrim doesn't allow me to have hardly any satisfying interaction.

 

My little cousin often will go 5-10 hours, then take breaks for weeks/months to play other games. He can't recall to compare to see the linearity/shallowness, not to mention he's annoyed whenever choices make him miss anything or make his character seem un-awesome. That's probably in Bethesda's aim for accessibility and power fantasy, hence the domination by linear quests, primitively black/white writing, etc. And the shallow levelling system serves his desire to be good at everything, whereas true RPGs have us specialise, not to artificially limit but because they're so rich that you can't reasonably come near mastering it all. My fav RPGs have deep levelling, quest design and dialogue (and even with both bigger and denser worlds than Skyrim, e.g. Arcanum) and decent storytelling to boot, but Skyrim lacks all of that - it's extremely soulless. Mods save it partially, which I think also influences Bethesda, i.e. from a business perspective why shouldn't Bethesda save work/money by heavily relying on modders to freely improve/fix games if plenty of players accept it?

 

 

So, what kept me going was mods, particularly a famous one called Interesting NPCs that has very superior characters than Bethesda's cardboard cutouts, and better quests as well. The reason I came back is someone recommended a mod they claimed surpasses INPCs' two main questlines. INPCs' aren't great but they're better than any of Bethesda's, and the two mods are partly incomparable as INPCs heavily uses existing assets whereas this has more new places and stuff. It's this. I know the name/looks are inviting misjudgement but it's not that sort of mod as the "maids" feature is optional and satirical. The mod focus on storytelling and quest design - my skepticism was ass-backwards.


It was released episodically, the first "episode" (the starting town of Jonestead mainly) being the weakest, to the point I considered quitting, but generally it is as claimed. For a mod, voice acting is largely okay, good anyway in spots, with a few I remembered from INPCs such as Viridiane who notably voiced Zora Fair-Child, one of my fav INPCs companions (up there with Rumarin and Anum-La), and her quests were okay. Viridiane's character here surpasses Zora IIRC, and a few others would be around INPCs' best. Here's a sample from where I got hooked, spoiling parts of two quests and of a minor character's story:

Spoiler

 

After gaining access to Euphoria Palace, you're sent out to visit faction checkpoints. At the first one, a member named Alarei isn't feeling well and the checkpoint leader wants to get rid of her while the leader of your group suggests leaving her. Your choice. Later, an ambush, and whether Alarei was accepted/rejected affects NPC fates, scenes, and dialogue. The first checkpoint was attacked too. If Alarei was brought along, she now just wants to leave for winterhold college and you can attempt to help her; if you left her, she's unstable..

 

You team up next to try to infiltrate the opposing faction. If Alarei was taken along previously, she'll now be calm and sensible about gaining info from the enemy first, offering a unique way to kill before (optionally) donning their armor. If unstable, she'll gleefully want blood, not allow info-gathering and be like "Who cares?!" if you disapprove of her actions. Info & armor determine how things go when meeting enemies outside (no armor = they attack immediately; armor but no info = they attack after a conversation; armor + info = tag along with them for a bit before they turn on you). I won't spoil further. BTW, for those factions...it's not simply about having to defeat the opposing one...

 

 

That's a small chunk, maybe 1/25. I had two playthroughs and the different consequences were decent, as was the story in general. Whenever I replay Morrowind, I'll probably go for Arktwend -> Nehrim -> Enderal, and see if they surpass this. While I'm at it, I may try the lesser M2 prequel for Oblivion before M2 a last time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dryspace
On 2/15/2019 at 7:27 AM, ten-a-penny said:

Might do the same thing with the Witcher 3. Also "left" it after some point.

I can never help evangelizing on this subject, but if you haven't tried The Witcher: Enhanced Edition, I highly recommend you do so. Unfortunately, it's not going to have the same immersive impact that it did when the technology was fresh, but I consider it to be an example of a game that does almost everything right--or just as importantly, doesn't have any serious flaws. Those were addressed with the Enhanced Edition.

 

1 hour ago, ten-a-penny said:

Still didn't stop me from enjoying the College Questline though. It's my second-favorite after the Dark Brotherhood storyline.

I thought maybe 'Aloy' was short for 'Aloysius' until I noticed 'female'!

 

I've always enjoyed that questline as well; but unfortunately I agree with people who are put off at how you can become head honcho for nothing, in no time flat. Talk about ludonarrative dissonance. I always appreciate attention to detail and verisimilitude, and wish that Bethesda cared more about it these days!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.