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Wolfenhoffen

Is the United States now a fascist country?

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GrandMaster Smith

I can't stand how people just give in to this crap..

 

Like how can people not see what they're doing? Has anyone heard the public announcement from Homeland Security? Telling the citizens to keep on watch for suspicious activity at wal-marts and around your hometown. All they're doing is creating fear in the public, trying to make you feel scared just going to your local walmart so you'd be willing to give up more rights. I'm not in any more danger going into my hometown then I was over a decade ago.. this is mind conditioning at work.

 

 

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mike752
I can't stand how people just give in to this crap..

 

Like how can people not see what they're doing? Has anyone heard the public announcement from Homeland Security? Telling the citizens to keep on watch for suspicious activity at wal-marts and around your hometown. All they're doing is creating fear in the public, trying to make you feel scared just going to your local walmart so you'd be willing to give up more rights. I'm not in any more danger going into my hometown then I was over a decade ago.. this is mind conditioning at work.

I really don't see what the government gains by searching people at the airport. If anything, it's more of a nuisance than a benefit.

 

I also don't see what rights are being given away by allowing this, either. Being more aware of suspicious activity at my local convenience store certainly doesn't suddenly make me under the government's control.

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D- Ice

 

If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

I concur. The mere fact that you have the ability to question it negates the sentiment.

Not quite, I disagree. It's far from being that black-and-white - fascist or not fascist based on your ability to question governance.

 

It's rather a spectrum of authoritarianism, and there is no definitive point where libertarianism becomes fascism.

 

I remember in Iraq under Saddam, we were freely allowed to question any government official, and popular votings even took place (albiet everyone was from the Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party). We were even able to freely question if Saddam himself was totalitarian or not, and nothing would happen to you. As long as you don't show a desire to stop him ruling the country. And that was all ofcourse in public, in private you can practically say anything.

 

When exactly does a society with liberties becomes a totalitarian fascist state is itself a subjective matter. In the example of the US now, on one extreme, some people may think there are too many Liberties, and it is even acceptable and encouraged to profile people based on religion/ethnicity/name when doing searches at the airport. On the other extreme, there are those who are joining militia movements and getting armed to the teeth to prepare to take the government on, as they geniunely believe Obama is gonna turn the US into a dictatorship if he keeps going the way he does.

 

As for the topic of whether the US is turning fascist, I would certainly agree the government is becoming more authoritarian due to the current conflicts, but it's still quite far from being fascist in my eyes. I think the reasons are political, and are a lot more to do with catching agents from countries like Iran and Russia than just terrorists, who are quite easily caugh by normal airport security measures.

 

 

I say we just go back to profiling.

Whoa, what do you mean? I was just talking about that above.

Do you actually think people should only be hastled at airports based on race or religion? How would you even know what religion or race they are?

Maybe issuing ID cards with race or religion on them, where any potential terrorist can lie?

Maybe get them to stand infront of a skin-colour chart?

Or maybe just automatically blacklist Arabic, Persian and Turkish-sounding names. confused.gif

I'm not even gonna bother going into all the practical and ethical shortcomings of all those...

Edited by D- Ice

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GrandMaster Smith

 

I can't stand how people just give in to this crap..

 

Like how can people not see what they're doing? Has anyone heard the public announcement from Homeland Security? Telling the citizens to keep on watch for suspicious activity at wal-marts and around your hometown. All they're doing is creating fear in the public, trying to make you feel scared just going to your local walmart so you'd be willing to give up more rights. I'm not in any more danger going into my hometown then I was over a decade ago.. this is mind conditioning at work.

I really don't see what the government gains by searching people at the airport. If anything, it's more of a nuisance than a benefit.

 

I also don't see what rights are being given away by allowing this, either. Being more aware of suspicious activity at my local convenience store certainly doesn't suddenly make me under the government's control.

It's just baby steps towards a bigger picture. Telling you to keep watch where ever you go for suspected 'domestic terrorists' is blatantly installing fear into the public to further weaken peoples will to fight to keep their rights. The more scared the society is, the easier it is to put in place bills that'll suspend our rights.

 

If anything it's these people in government that get us into the wars in the first place, they put all their citizens in the battle to fight their battle for them, then we get threatened and killed by terrorists for the problems Our government caused in the first place.. like does no one see the stupidity in this?

 

They take away our rights and freedoms.. for sh*t they did.. and if anyone sees the bullsh*t in this and calls it out they get called anti-american or crazy or some other crap. Like really, who's going to trust any big government that is constantly invoking wars with each other to declare peace and security on earth? If it wasn't for the government being ran by kill frenzy lunatics and actually ran by the level headed everyday citizens we wouldn't constantly be at war with others and always having to kill people.

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dog_day_sunrise
I can't stand how people just give in to this crap..

 

Like how can people not see what they're doing? Has anyone heard the public announcement from Homeland Security? Telling the citizens to keep on watch for suspicious activity at wal-marts and around your hometown. All they're doing is creating fear in the public, trying to make you feel scared just going to your local walmart so you'd be willing to give up more rights. I'm not in any more danger going into my hometown then I was over a decade ago.. this is mind conditioning at work.

I really don't see what the government gains by searching people at the airport. If anything, it's more of a nuisance than a benefit.

 

I also don't see what rights are being given away by allowing this, either. Being more aware of suspicious activity at my local convenience store certainly doesn't suddenly make me under the government's control.

It's just baby steps towards a bigger picture. Telling you to keep watch where ever you go for suspected 'domestic terrorists' is blatantly installing fear into the public to further weaken peoples will to fight to keep their rights. The more scared the society is, the easier it is to put in place bills that'll suspend our rights.

 

If anything it's these people in government that get us into the wars in the first place, they put all their citizens in the battle to fight their battle for them, then we get threatened and killed by terrorists for the problems Our government caused in the first place.. like does no one see the stupidity in this?

 

They take away our rights and freedoms.. for sh*t they did.. and if anyone sees the bullsh*t in this and calls it out they get called anti-american or crazy or some other crap. Like really, who's going to trust any big government that is constantly invoking wars with each other to declare peace and security on earth? If it wasn't for the government being ran by kill frenzy lunatics and actually ran by the level headed everyday citizens we wouldn't constantly be at war with others and always having to kill people.

The other thing you have to take into account is that feelings such as those you portray in this post have been held by a small minority of the US population at just about any time in history. It's nothing new to think that the government is conspiring to take away your freedoms, liberties and rights. Are they? Probably not- if they were going to I can think of a dozen or so better methods than a gradual campaign of mild irritation and heightened security measures. Airport body scanners and extensive frisking aren't a step towards fascism, they're simply an attempt by the government to increase the cost and time effectiveness of security measures. Besides, you only need fear security if you have something to hide.

 

As a side note GMS, I find many of your posts on topics such as this very predictable and clished. You constantly seem to portray these notions that the government are out to get the population, that there's some kind of war between the political class and the electorate. Personally, I think it's down to some kind of poorly concieved misunderstanding of government intentions, or an irrational phobia of the principle of someone else dictating or controlling areas of your life. Either way, it's pretty safe to say that in a democratic nation like the US (please, no-one go on about how the US isn't a democracy because it's federal, it's a federal democracy just like somewhere like Germany) the government aren't out to "get you" in any way, shape or form. Their existance is as much dependent on the public as vice versa. Also, compare and contrast the likes of Nazi Germany, Franco-era Spain and Mussolini-era Italy with the modern United States. Not only do they bear almost no similarity in political or social policy, the surrounding events which caused the agressive transition to Fascism are somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible to occur in the US without a catastrophically large change in the nature of the country.

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GrandMaster Smith

 

I can't stand how people just give in to this crap..

 

Like how can people not see what they're doing? Has anyone heard the public announcement from Homeland Security? Telling the citizens to keep on watch for suspicious activity at wal-marts and around your hometown. All they're doing is creating fear in the public, trying to make you feel scared just going to your local walmart so you'd be willing to give up more rights. I'm not in any more danger going into my hometown then I was over a decade ago.. this is mind conditioning at work.

I really don't see what the government gains by searching people at the airport. If anything, it's more of a nuisance than a benefit.

 

I also don't see what rights are being given away by allowing this, either. Being more aware of suspicious activity at my local convenience store certainly doesn't suddenly make me under the government's control.

It's just baby steps towards a bigger picture. Telling you to keep watch where ever you go for suspected 'domestic terrorists' is blatantly installing fear into the public to further weaken peoples will to fight to keep their rights. The more scared the society is, the easier it is to put in place bills that'll suspend our rights.

 

If anything it's these people in government that get us into the wars in the first place, they put all their citizens in the battle to fight their battle for them, then we get threatened and killed by terrorists for the problems Our government caused in the first place.. like does no one see the stupidity in this?

 

They take away our rights and freedoms.. for sh*t they did.. and if anyone sees the bullsh*t in this and calls it out they get called anti-american or crazy or some other crap. Like really, who's going to trust any big government that is constantly invoking wars with each other to declare peace and security on earth? If it wasn't for the government being ran by kill frenzy lunatics and actually ran by the level headed everyday citizens we wouldn't constantly be at war with others and always having to kill people.

The other thing you have to take into account is that feelings such as those you portray in this post have been held by a small minority of the US population at just about any time in history. It's nothing new to think that the government is conspiring to take away your freedoms, liberties and rights. Are they? Probably not- if they were going to I can think of a dozen or so better methods than a gradual campaign of mild irritation and heightened security measures. Airport body scanners and extensive frisking aren't a step towards fascism, they're simply an attempt by the government to increase the cost and time effectiveness of security measures. Besides, you only need fear security if you have something to hide.

 

As a side note GMS, I find many of your posts on topics such as this very predictable and clished. You constantly seem to portray these notions that the government are out to get the population, that there's some kind of war between the political class and the electorate. Personally, I think it's down to some kind of poorly concieved misunderstanding of government intentions, or an irrational phobia of the principle of someone else dictating or controlling areas of your life. Either way, it's pretty safe to say that in a democratic nation like the US (please, no-one go on about how the US isn't a democracy because it's federal, it's a federal democracy just like somewhere like Germany) the government aren't out to "get you" in any way, shape or form. Their existance is as much dependent on the public as vice versa. Also, compare and contrast the likes of Nazi Germany, Franco-era Spain and Mussolini-era Italy with the modern United States. Not only do they bear almost no similarity in political or social policy, the surrounding events which caused the agressive transition to Fascism are somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible to occur in the US without a catastrophically large change in the nature of the country.

You do understand that the US is on the verge of another major financial breakdown within the next few years right? There are tons of people saying that if we don't change something in our money system soon, the US is going to be in the same place as Greece with rioting in the streets and all that. Our food prices have already shot up somewhere around 30% within the last year alone.

 

Until you understand how the federal reserve works, you can't really understand how this whole economic collapse has been manipulated, and that they are the ones who have caused the problem in the first place so in return they can supply us with a solution so they can create order out of chaos (A nice quote from Rohm Emanuel). They already have Fema 'residential camps' set up for when the whole collapse happens people will have a place to go when they aren't able to pay for their house anymore in the coming years.

 

I know just saying the words 'new world order' scream out conspiracy nut, but if you even go look for yourself countless of world leaders have been actually calling for a quote new world order the last few years, yet they go out and say in a homeland security bill that citizens who are against a nwo, against the federal reserve, and they even put people who support Ron Paul too are to be considered domestic terrorists.. Like the Ron Paul part just had me go mercie_blink.gif? Like all he stands for is taking corruption out of government, and these people view supporters of this guy a threat? Like where along the line have things turned so sour, and why do so many just turn a blind eye to all of this?

 

Like really, all the bills are either in place or in the process of being put in place, all it's going to take now is a major crisis to implement all of them, and we're sure as hell headed to that with the whole financial problem on hand.

 

And yes, there are similarities between the US and Germany

 

Reighsteigg fire = 9/11 to install fear,

And from each terrorist attack brought about;

The Enabling Act = The Patriot Act, which was used to blatantly take away the citizens rights while using a cover to have the citizens to actually accept such an asinine thing,

Combination of those brought amongst a society filled with fear and insecurities which is much easier to manipulate, and created a fear of

Jews = Muslims/'domestic terrorists,' which is an umbrella term used to describe many different things.

Germany illegally invading multiple countries = US illegally invading multiple countries

Germany trying to police world = US trying to police the world.

 

..there are plenty more examples as well but I'm sure I get the point across. You can either look at all this information and dismiss it and continue to trust the government which has proven itself corrupt time and time again, or you can decide to connects dots a and b and look at the big picture and realize the agenda that may lie behind all of this. Now I'm not running around like a chicken whos got its head chopped off saying the FBIs out to get me or the gov. is planting tracking chips while I'm not paying attention or anything like that, all I'm doing is presenting my opinions based off facts and history. There isn't a need to attack the messenger without first actually researching any of this, and if you would like links to where I get my information to base my opinion off of I would be more than happy. Its like I don't get how you can't suspect anything especially how it's already been done before and we're headed on parallels events that has happened before that led to martial law and mass quarantines..

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dog_day_sunrise
You do understand that the US is on the verge of another major financial breakdown within the next few years right? There are tons of people saying that if we don't change something in our money system soon, the US is going to be in the same place as Greece with rioting in the streets and all that. Our food prices have already shot up somewhere around 30% within the last year alone.

 

Until you understand how the federal reserve works, you can't really understand how this whole economic collapse has been manipulated, and that they are the ones who have caused the problem in the first place so in return they can supply us with a solution so they can create order out of chaos (A nice quote from Rohm Emanuel). They already have Fema 'residential camps' set up for when the whole collapse happens people will have a place to go when they aren't able to pay for their house anymore in the coming years.

 

I know just saying the words 'new world order' scream out conspiracy nut, but if you even go look for yourself countless of world leaders have been actually calling for a quote new world order the last few years, yet they go out and say in a homeland security bill that citizens who are against a nwo, against the federal reserve, and they even put people who support Ron Paul too are to be considered domestic terrorists.. Like the Ron Paul part just had me go mercie_blink.gif? Like all he stands for is taking corruption out of government, and these people view supporters of this guy a threat? Like where along the line have things turned so sour, and why do so many just turn a blind eye to all of this?

 

Like really, all the bills are either in place or in the process of being put in place, all it's going to take now is a major crisis to implement all of them, and we're sure as hell headed to that with the whole financial problem on hand.

 

And yes, there are similarities between the US and Germany

 

Reighsteigg fire = 9/11 to install fear,

And from each terrorist attack brought about;

The Enabling Act = The Patriot Act, which was used to blatantly take away the citizens rights while using a cover to have the citizens to actually accept such an asinine thing,

Combination of those brought amongst a society filled with fear and insecurities which is much easier to manipulate, and created a fear of

Jews = Muslims/'domestic terrorists,' which is an umbrella term used to describe many different things.

Germany illegally invading multiple countries = US illegally invading multiple countries

Germany trying to police world = US trying to police the world.

 

..there are plenty more examples as well but I'm sure I get the point across. You can either look at all this information and dismiss it and continue to trust the government which has proven itself corrupt time and time again, or you can decide to connects dots a and b and look at the big picture and realize the agenda that may lie behind all of this. Now I'm not running around like a chicken whos got its head chopped off saying the FBIs out to get me or the gov. is planting tracking chips while I'm not paying attention or anything like that, all I'm doing is presenting my opinions based off facts and history. There isn't a need to attack the messenger without first actually researching any of this, and if you would like links to where I get my information to base my opinion off of I would be more than happy. Its like I don't get how you can't suspect anything especially how it's already been done before and we're headed on parallels events that has happened before that led to martial law and mass quarantines..

1) The US isn't really at risk of another fiscal collapse. They're going to have a few slow years yes, but a collapse is extremely unlikely.

2) The Federal Reserve is, for the most part, not that disimilar to most other centralised banking organisations who operate within the political system. The only real tangible difference is that the Federal Reserve has a degree of direct fiscal control over the supply of funds for various government agencies and programs but that does exist to at least some degree in most political systems.

3) All your posts scream "conspiracy nut" if I'm honest.

4) See point 1

 

5a) I think we pretty convincinly annihilated the theory that 9/11 was an inside job on the prior thread. Unless you've suddenly found some half-decent information I'm going to ignore that completely.

b) Powers of surveillance do not equal a legalised, legitimate transfer of power to an autocratic leader. They're totally incomparable and to even make the comparison is ridiculous.

c) Semi-legitimate, semi-hysterical fear of domestic terrorism does not equal full-blown, legally enshrined discrimination culminating in genocide. Even to suggest it does it rather offensive.

d) The US recognises the principal of realism in IR. There are no international laws besides those of convenience- they are worth nothing more than a pile of newspaper.

e) Germany didn't try and police the world. Nor, if I'm honest, do the US. If the US are making attempts to police the world, then how come they've spent the last decade sitting idly by and watching various coup d'etaits and genocides in Africa?

 

5) Your point (see above) is pretty much null and void. You are rather running around like a headless chicken. You're basically saying "I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist but..." and then listing off a massive conspiracy theory that wouldn't be amiss in a Dan Brown novel.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

I say we just go back to profiling.

Whoa, what do you mean? I was just talking about that above.

Do you actually think people should only be hastled at airports based on race or religion? How would you even know what religion or race they are?

Maybe issuing ID cards with race and religion on them, where any potential terrorist can lie?

Maybe get them to stand infront of a skin-colour chart?

Or maybe just automatically blacklist Arabic, Persian and Turkish-sounding names. confused.gif

I'm not even gonna bother going into all the practical and ethical shortcomings of all those...

 

No, anyone looking like they have something to hide should be hassled. And practically, we can not even afford these full body scanners and all we do is cost the airports money and ourselves time by putting up with this crap. You certainly like looking at this from only the race and religion stand point. I suspect that's one of the few, pathetic reasons we have full body scanners in the first place. I say we just throw aside such pointless P.C debates and quit being closet racists. I don't really want to pull the race card, but are you sure that you aren't a racist?

 

Chalk up anything that happens to good acting, but how many terrorists attacks happened after Bush implemented his methods without the order of $4 billion dollars worth of full body scanners? You think being safe costs $4 billion dollars? I think the only thing his methods cost anybody was the perp's cold ball sweat when you were taking the heat for looking like you want to blow up a god damn flight.

 

All I see in these lines is individuals with lives and private property at stake.

 

 

1) The US isn't really at risk of another fiscal collapse. They're going to have a few slow years yes, but a collapse is extremely unlikely.

2) The Federal Reserve is, for the most part, not that disimilar to most other centralised banking organisations who operate within the political system. The only real tangible difference is that the Federal Reserve has a degree of direct fiscal control over the supply of funds for various government agencies and programs but that does exist to at least some degree in most political systems.

 

 

Completely false man. The Federal government now has an operating budget of $3 trillion a year while only taking in roughly $1 trillion a year through taxes. Were you trying to say we are not risking a financial collapse in "a couple of years"? I can kind of agree with that up to a very minute amount, but thanks to the new sweeping reforms out Statist friends have given to the U.S, I'm sure that we will be facing either massive tax hikes, or more quantitative easing (Which is already in the process of occuring to the tune of $600 billion over the next 6-8 months thanks to that good ole' Federal Reserve) which will effectively destroy the last bit of financial standing that we have.

 

Let me go further, in 2008, David Walker, at the time the Comptroller General of the United States estimated our total yearly budgets, combined with unfunded liabilities and contigencies (Social Security, Medicare/aid, Bailouts) to be near $53 trillion dollars in the present time. Remember, that was up to 3 years ago. He also added "Imagine we decide to put aside and invest today for the promises of tomorrow. It would cost approximately $455,000 per American household or $175,000 for every man, woman, and child in the U.S."

 

If you do not understand how Social Security and how it is funded (Or how it is unfunded), then I can see why you might not get how f*cked the U.S really is.

Edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420

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D- Ice

 

No, anyone looking like they have something to hide should be hassled.

 

You think being safe costs $4 billion dollars? I think the only thing his methods cost anybody was the perp's cold ball sweat when you were taking the heat for looking like you want to blow up a god damn flight.

 

All I see in these lines is individuals with lives and private property at stake.

 

If they can train/brainwash them enough to blow themselves up without a second thought, I'd imagine they can train them not to look/be nervous of being caught.

Simply profiling people based on if they look nervous or not is a ridiculously cliched idea, it never worked years ago with simple crimes, and it will certainly fail miserably today in the face of international terrorism and espionage.

 

 

And practically, we can not even afford these full body scanners and all we do is cost the airports money and ourselves time by putting up with this crap.

 

Well, not gonna argue with you on that as I do kinda agree. Metal detectors wont cut it as with the last few failed attempts, their explosives didn't contain any wiring, but were made from undetectable chemicals.

However, a quick pat-down for every passenger would probably still suffice.

 

 

You certainly like looking at this from only the race and religion stand point. I suspect that's one of the few, pathetic reasons we have full body scanners in the first place.

What I have heard from the vast majority of trusted friends regarding such profiling is frankly unacceptable for even under-developed, war-torn countries - let alone the US. People from both the "blacklisted" and "non-blacklisted" demographics spoke of shameless racial and religious profiling, which I am shocked and greatly disappointed hasn't been made a much bigger deal of.

 

Even with my limited experiences at airports, I felt unfairly hassled - even though I am a much bigger victim of international terrorism than anyone from 9/11. It isn't even profiling as such, as most of it is extremely inaccurate and injustified - I might have a Arabic name, but I am an Athiest, while the last few failed terrorist attempts were carried out by radical muslims with Western names.

 

So no, I don't think my focus on race and religion was uncalled for, and your assumptions of me 'playing the race card' are unjustified.

 

 

I say we just throw aside such pointless P.C debates and quit being closet racists. I don't really want to pull the race card, but are you sure that you aren't a racist?

 

 

What do you exactly mean by stopping the PC debates and come out of the racism closet? Are you implying we ignore a glaringly obvious problem of institutionalised descrimination, or that it does not exist? As for closet racism, who exactly are you refering to, the US population or government? I would disagree that the majority - or any significant number - of the US population or government is racist.

 

And no, I am in no way racist, please refrain from degrading this discussion into personal slander. And FYI, frivilous PC-bashing, denial or support of institutionalised descrimination and claiming most other people are racists are all things most associated with racism by popular opinion.

 

 

Chalk up anything that happens to good acting, but how many terrorists attacks happened after Bush implemented his methods without the order of $4 billion dollars worth of full body scanners?

Not quite. How many failed terrorists were caught during the Bush era compared to now under Obama? I think it is to do with US enemies not sending terrorists back then, otherwise they would have either been caught or planes exploded in mid-air - neither of which happened. If that old system was so successful, we would have heard of just as much foiled terrorist attempts, which we didn't.

 

 

You think being safe costs $4 billion dollars?

Probably not, it is definately a massive amount of money, especially in today's economic climate.

With such large expenditures, you'd think/sincerely hope the governments hired experts who might know of other hidden advantages - like maybe it'll help restart the economy with such large purchases from the companies who make them and/or less waiting times and more profits for US airline companies.

 

If not, and they just blindly spent $4billion for virtually no significant increase in safety (over just frisking everyone/those with shifty eyes), then they are complete f*cktards.

 

TC

Edited by D- Ice

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dog_day_sunrise
Completely false man. The Federal government now has an operating budget of $3 trillion a year while only taking in roughly $1 trillion a year through taxes. Were you trying to say we are not risking a financial collapse in "a couple of years"? I can kind of agree with that up to a very minute amount, but thanks to the new sweeping reforms out Statist friends have given to the U.S, I'm sure that we will be facing either massive tax hikes, or more quantitative easing (Which is already in the process of occuring to the tune of $600 billion over the next 6-8 months thanks to that good ole' Federal Reserve) which will effectively destroy the last bit of financial standing that we have.

 

Let me go further, in 2008, David Walker, at the time the Comptroller General of the United States estimated our total yearly budgets, combined with unfunded liabilities and contigencies (Social Security, Medicare/aid, Bailouts) to be near $53 trillion dollars in the present time. Remember, that was up to 3 years ago. He also added "Imagine we decide to put aside and invest today for the promises of tomorrow. It would cost approximately $455,000 per American household or $175,000 for every man, woman, and child in the U.S."

 

If you do not understand how Social Security and how it is funded (Or how it is unfunded), then I can see why you might not get how f*cked the U.S really is.

I think you need to check your figures. According to the IRS' 2009 returns, the total income from taxation in the US before refunds was about $2.1tn, which still doesn't add up quite right with the $2.8tn predicted operating costs of the Federal government in 2010, but is a hell of a lot closer than you imply. The real problem in the US is the absurd personal financial mismanagement which has resulted in such high levels of personal debt. Average credit card debt per household is over $15k.

 

Ahh, the "unfunded liabilites" chestnut. Some people estimate it's now reached $1.2m per taxpayer. Others don't believe it exists at all, and is just a catchy and scary new phrase for an area of fiscal policy which has existed for decades. Personally, I can't quite see how a nation's unfunded liabilities can be nearly 10 times their nominal GDP- I'm not a financial analyst but seeing figures like $99 trillion being banded around for the nominal cost of healthcare provision for the population of the US makes me rather suspicious of the figure as a whole. The anual average cost of annual healthcare provision per capita in the US as it currently stands is $5770 per person- a little more than double that of nations with publically run healthcare systems ($2317 in the UK, $2455 in Ireland, for example) so even with the US capital expenditure per person figure taken into account the most recent figures of "unfunded liability" are roughly equivilent to every man, woman and child living to the age of 209. Which, personally, I find rather spurious.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

We must also take in to account when talking about 'unfunded liabilities' (The Federal government really has written the proverbial 'blank check' for everything it currently does) things such as pensions, healthcare for Federal retirees, the amount of labor it will take to institute the new laws and all the clauses within them that still need to be worked out management wise, the further costs of the current generation to the aforementioned Welfare programs and how many will definitely be added in the future as the U.S population is on the rise. The list of all these things, adds up to the whole that the U.S is going to have to deal with in the future. Hell, we also have to add in just the expansion of current Government agencies, the list of which is endless (TSA, NHTSA, FBI, FDA, FCC, DoHS, EPA, A whole list compiled by the U.S government of currently active agencies) Also add in the exorbitantly huge cost of Public service employee salaries which discovered by the Wallstreet Journal to be nearly 4x as much as a private sector employees on average.

 

And still there's nothing good to be said about how much of a Welfare state the U.S really and truly is. As of 2004, 47 million people are enrolled in Social Security and close to another 7 million people under Supplemental Security Income. As of 2006, 43 million people were enrolled in Medicare -about 36 million elderly and 7 million disabled. Medicaid, same story, but because of the broad base that Medicaid covers, it often covers many people who are also enrolled in Medicare, and totals up to today 51 million people. Sadly, the Medicaid program is not only bankrupting the Federal government but is also bankrupting individual states. In total, a quarter of the United States population is enrolled in atleast one of these three programs, and some people recieving benefits from all three.

 

Lets just do some math here. My grandfather recieved $450 U.S.D a month from Social Security in 2001, so yearly that's about $5,400 U.S.D. So $5,400 multiplied by 47 million would be $253.8 billion dollars per year. That's just Social Security alone.

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peterQ1

Yes it has been a fascist country ever since Hussein became the President. The amount of spending is out of control. The muslims also are really happy now since their leader has become our president.

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dog_day_sunrise
Yes it has been a fascist country ever since Hussein became the President. The amount of spending is out of control. The muslims also are really happy now since their leader has become our president.

And the award for "most deluded person" goes to...

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peterQ1

 

Yes it has been a fascist country ever since Hussein became the President. The amount of spending is out of control. The muslims also are really happy now since their leader has become our president.

And the award for "most deluded person" goes to...

Well its true. They view him as their unconditional leader and bow to him. Why else do you think he supports the mosque on ground zero? So his buddies can look and laugh at their handy work. Regarding profiling, i dont think profiling should be done. Lets instead train the TSA in properly identifying a suspicious person and then giving that person extra screenings, if that person is muslim, colored, asian, white, whatever. Profiling just isnt an effective way to keep us safe.

Edited by peterQ1

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Struff Bunstridge

Well, I'm not exactly bang up to speed on Park 51, but it's my understanding that a) significant numbers of US-based Muslims oppose the idea, and b) significant numbers of non-Muslim Americans, including many directly or indirectly affected by the attacks, support the idea - if that's correct, that sort of muddies your argument a bit, wouldn't you say?

 

Oh, and c) it's not going to be a mosque per se, but rather a "cultural learning centre" - you'd probably benefit from a season ticket, sir. I believe there will be some sort of prayer room somewhere in it, but that'd be more an Islamic cultural thing, rather than the President arbitrarily deciding to piss all over the majority of his taxpayers.

 

Regarding profiling - I agree with your sentiments, but would like to ask how you propose to "train the TSA in properly identifying a suspicious person"? I suspect 'looking a bit shifty' wouldn't quite cut it.

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dog_day_sunrise

 

Well its true. They view him as their unconditional leader and bow to him. Why else do you think he supports the mosque on ground zero?

...and that is the moment you lost me. Just how far away from the ground zero site is considered no longer being on it? The proposed site is about 4 blocks away- about half a mile in real terms. There are already several mosques within half a mile of ground zero. Want those demolished too?

 

 

Yes it has been a fascist country ever since Hussein became the President. The amount of spending is out of control. The muslims also are really happy now since their leader has become our president.

Going back to this...

How are increased spending and a relative ambivalence, and you're belief that someone is a Muslim when they are not, anything to do with fascism? I suggest you look up it's definition before replying.

Edited by dog_day_sunrise

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

Yes it has been a fascist country ever since Hussein became the President. The amount of spending is out of control. The muslims also are really happy now since their leader has become our president.

Going back to this...

How are increased spending and a relative ambivalence, and you're belief that someone is a Muslim when they are not, anything to do with fascism? I suggest you look up it's definition before replying.

 

 

It has everything to do with a nation state in decline. Not that that really is anything new with the U.S, but we have many problems that are not being talked much about. I can only hope that is the reason why the minority picked up 80+ seats in Congress.

 

But really, what suggests Barrack Obama is not a muslim? He did deny it, but is that really enough? I can deny that I am a "libertarian" on this board but what suggests that I am not such? Just because I said it to be false? It does not concern me but his word is really such little to go on. His actions have not proved much in the way that he is a "Christian" no more than that I am a "Deist".

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Struff Bunstridge

Do you have a reason to disbelieve him? If he had a different middle name, would the subject even have arisen?

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

What has he done that distinguishes that he's a Christian? That's my point. Past Presidents would at least have the balls to say "Merry Christmas" but the guy does not want to step on any toes. For all I know, the guy could be a Jew.

 

Just sayin'. Doesn't matter to me anyways.

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Struff Bunstridge

I think a better point is, why should he distinguish himself as anything? He's a political leader, not a religious figure.

 

The initial argument, ridiculous though it was, was that he's clearly a Muslim and therefore has some kind of hidden agenda against the traditionally Christian country he's now in charge of. Are we all agreed that that particular f*cksplat of a conversation can come to an end? Good.

 

Let's move on - I'd rather not have religion brought up in a thread about political ideologies, unless it's a really clever point. smile.gif

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GrandMaster Smith

I'm pretty sure the whole muslim/christian/ non-american/korean sh*t is all just a giant distraction from that he's just a puppet in the hands of the same guy who being controlled on the other side.

 

Just look how far the governments going to try and start civil unrest..

 

 

For all of those who don't understand the true workings of politics in the US, maybe this'll give you an idea.

 

 

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peterQ1
I think a better point is, why should he distinguish himself as anything? He's a political leader, not a religious figure.

 

The initial argument, ridiculous though it was, was that he's clearly a Muslim and therefore has some kind of hidden agenda against the traditionally Christian country he's now in charge of. Are we all agreed that that particular f*cksplat of a conversation can come to an end? Good.

 

Let's move on - I'd rather not have religion brought up in a thread about political ideologies, unless it's a really clever point. smile.gif

That would be a sensical argument if the past few presidents of the US were not so religious. Obama was sworn in as a senator with the korin and he wanted to use it for the presidency but they wouldn't let him. Grandmastersmith stop with your conspiracy bullsh*t, the adults are talking. Obama is nothing more then another politician. just this time, he's a muslim and an islamic radical. If anyone has heard about what he is planning to do, Mike Savage gave a report the other day regarding Obama's plan to get rid of Joe Biden and appoint some kind of islamic radical to the vice presidency, then obama would resign as president to allow this radical to succeed the office.

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The-King

 

I think a better point is, why should he distinguish himself as anything? He's a political leader, not a religious figure.

 

The initial argument, ridiculous though it was, was that he's clearly a Muslim and therefore has some kind of hidden agenda against the traditionally Christian country he's now in charge of. Are we all agreed that that particular f*cksplat of a conversation can come to an end? Good.

 

Let's move on - I'd rather not have religion brought up in a thread about political ideologies, unless it's a really clever point.  smile.gif

That would be a sensical argument if the past few presidents of the US were not so religious. Obama was sworn in as a senator with the korin and he wanted to use it for the presidency but they wouldn't let him. Grandmastersmith stop with your conspiracy bullsh*t, the adults are talking. Obama is nothing more then another politician. just this time, he's a muslim and an islamic radical. If anyone has heard about what he is planning to do, Mike Savage gave a report the other day regarding Obama's plan to get rid of Joe Biden and appoint some kind of islamic radical to the vice presidency, then obama would resign as president to allow this radical to succeed the office.

So yeah, all potential of me (and hopefully anyone else) taking you seriously just flew out the window. People like you are the reason I despise this country; the whole "oh my god, he doesn't believe in my god the same way I do, hang the f*cker" mentality makes me sick. Or even worse, the "he's a Muslim, therefore he must also be radical and full of anti-American sentiment" bullsh*t just packs me full of utter disgust. It's downright sickening that people actually think that way, let alone are allowed to breed in the first place.

 

What does it matter what religion he believes in? I mean honestly, it shouldn't make jack-all difference and if it does you're a plainly defined bigot.

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GrandMaster Smith

 

I think a better point is, why should he distinguish himself as anything? He's a political leader, not a religious figure.

 

The initial argument, ridiculous though it was, was that he's clearly a Muslim and therefore has some kind of hidden agenda against the traditionally Christian country he's now in charge of. Are we all agreed that that particular f*cksplat of a conversation can come to an end? Good.

 

Let's move on - I'd rather not have religion brought up in a thread about political ideologies, unless it's a really clever point.  smile.gif

That would be a sensical argument if the past few presidents of the US were not so religious. Obama was sworn in as a senator with the korin and he wanted to use it for the presidency but they wouldn't let him. Grandmastersmith stop with your conspiracy bullsh*t, the adults are talking. Obama is nothing more then another politician. just this time, he's a muslim and an islamic radical. If anyone has heard about what he is planning to do, Mike Savage gave a report the other day regarding Obama's plan to get rid of Joe Biden and appoint some kind of islamic radical to the vice presidency, then obama would resign as president to allow this radical to succeed the office.

haha Im sorry but had you ever thought that hey, maybe there's a reason that no matter what the presidents say pre-election, none of it follows through when they win office? What makes you think anything would be any different right now if McCain would've won?

 

Until the mass public realizes that there is only one organization that is above both the presidential parties, they'll continue to buy into the wide load of crap your tv feeds you.

 

Seriously, there are videos of Bush and John Kerry both admitting there are both from the same side. It doesn't matter who wins the election, the main agenda will still get across cause behind the scenes they are working for the same guy.

 

Let me repeat this so maybe it'll start to sink in. Two parties give the illusion of choice. ex, Candidate 1 supports idea X, but Candidate 2 doesn't, I'm sold with Candidate 1, either way though the same underlining plans that really mater to this country will be brought forward despite who wins. Its been done time and time again but people seem to think 'Oh well this time it's different.' People thought that with Obama and just open your eyes and look where we are right now. Does anyone remember the 'change america, yes we can, yes we can!!' yet here we are worse off than if Bush would've stayed in office.. And itls almost as if everyones forgotten about that whole ordeal and just shrug it off as 'oh it happens' and continue to be walked all over.

 

Next election will be the same, along with the countless ones after until it starts to click in peoples minds that maybe we're being tricked.

 

The only person I've ever seen up there making any sense AT ALL was Ron Paul. His approval rating was through the roof and he actually stands for what America really stands for.. what a shocker he didn't win though right? They discredited him by calling him crazy, cutting him off during debates and completely censoring his speeches. These political games is nothing more than that, a game.

 

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dog_day_sunrise

 

haha Im sorry but had you ever thought that hey, maybe there's a reason that no matter what the presidents say pre-election, none of it follows through when they win office? What makes you think anything would be any different right now if McCain would've won?

It's called politics. You say you'll do what people want, then do what you think they need. The common man is an idiot- if every popular policy were enacted we'd be, for want of a better word, f*cked. Your average joe on the street isn't meant to understand most of the decisions that are made- they are above him. Individuals think primarily of their own selfish interests when looking at policy- governments, as collaborations of individuals dictating policy, at least attempt to work towards a collective goal.

 

 

Until the mass public realizes that there is only one organization that is above both the presidential parties, they'll continue to buy into the wide load of crap your tv feeds you.

Until you realise that most of what you say is pure, unadulterated, baseless and meaningless tripe, there is unlikely to be any peace on these forums. Do you really want a repeat of the 9/11 conspiracy theories topic?

 

 

Seriously, there are videos of Bush and John Kerry both admitting there are both from the same side. It doesn't matter who wins the election, the main agenda will still get across cause behind the scenes they are working for the same guy.

Yes and I've found a youtube video of a cat playing a keyboard. It's both interesting and more applicable to the discussion than most of the sh*te you post on here. You really are becoming quite tedious with your baseless and absurd allegations, complete failure to understand the craft of policy and the composition of the political and social institutions of western societies, and general bullsh*tting attempts at talking down to people who are clearly both more intelligent and more understanding than you.

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D- Ice

I understand this discussion has nothing to do with religion, but since that topic has been brought up and is being rekindled, I'd like to make a few points.

 

@ Obama being a Muslim: In any modern, non-fascist society (fascist government being a different thing) religious affiliation by definition is based solely on what that individual person says they relate to. This is even true in many of the more oppressive societies out there.

So neither anyone here, government or even religious authorities have the right to determine the religious affiliation of anyone except for themselves.

 

Doubting any other person's self-ascribed religious affiliations is no better than the Ayatollahs in Iran or their puppets in Iraq telling people they can't be Athiests or Christians because their parents were Muslims. Ironically, said people would consider Obama the worst thing ever - an "Apostate to Islam" - as he should have taken to his father's Muslim religion (but his father himself was an Athiest). tounge2.gif

 

Even if the unsubstabtiated reports are true, of Obama purportedly distancing himself from the image of traditional Christianity (once the mainstay of American culture), why would Obama need to prove anything to anyone except God regarding his Christianity? The public bullsh*t is all done for political leverage, as virtually all Christians believe that the number of people who you manage to convinve that you're a Christian make no difference to the final judgement.

 

Most of those who publically embrace religions only do so for political leverage, and in many cases, those people believe in nothing more than exploiting the stupidity of others for their own gains.

 

@peterQ1: How hypocritical of you to call GrandMaster Smith's shocking claims "conspiracy bullsh*t", when at least he has provided some sources.

What evidence and proof can you present for your equally, if not more, outrageous claims?

 

ONTOPIC...

 

 

It's called politics. You say you'll do what people want, then do what you think they need. The common man is an idiot- if every popular policy were enacted we'd be, for want of a better word, f*cked. Your average joe on the street isn't meant to understand most of the decisions that are made- they are above him. Individuals think primarily of their own selfish interests when looking at policy- governments, as collaborations of individuals dictating policy, at least attempt to work towards a collective goal.

 

 

QTF and excellently said. I cannot agree with you any more on that.

But I also think in the majority of cases, the common man doesn't just lack the intelligence to understand the politics involved, but rather the scope of the matter. Like you said, most concentrate on the direct causes of their problems, rather than considering the complex chain of indirect factors determining it.

 

Unfortunately, it is also due to this lack of scope that politicians present altered versions of the truth to the public. It is exactly comparable to parents telling simplified and often untrue versions of reality to children. And this is far from being isolated to politics, but is rather found in virtually all specialised field in society.

Edited by D- Ice

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dog_day_sunrise
@peterQ1: How hypocritical of you to call GrandMaster Smith's shocking claims "conspiracy bullsh*t", when at least he has provided some sources.

What evidence and proof can you present for your equally, if not more, outrageous claims?

Quoted for posterity. As insane as some of GMS' posts have been, peterQ1 has completely failed even one iota of evidence for his rather outragous statements- not only in this thread, but it others too.

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GrandMaster Smith

 

@peterQ1: How hypocritical of you to call GrandMaster Smith's shocking claims "conspiracy bullsh*t", when at least he has provided some sources.

What evidence and proof can you present for your equally, if not more, outrageous claims?

Quoted for posterity. As insane as some of GMS' posts have been, peterQ1 has completely failed even one iota of evidence for his rather outragous statements- not only in this thread, but it others too.

Skull and Bones has been covered by even mainstream media a few times.. not alot but it has been covered.

I know its hard for people to get a grasp of the whole thing cause it requires such a rewiring of your understanding of the world around you.

I used to be alot like you guys and buy into every single election and thought it actually mattered, then my brother in law starting showing me all of this stuff and at first I disclaimed all of it cause it just sounds so absurd. Start doing your own research and learn to not be so biased, you may be surprised what you turn up with..

Even when you people get face to face with hard evidence they disclaim it cause they just can't subconsciously accept the idea that alot of things you put your trust into throughout your life just may turn up to be one big joke.

 

 

 

 

Now realize how off guard they are caught, notice how sly they try playing it off.. they are two parts of the same team, it doesn't matter who wins! Does this not click to anyone? It is practically an illusion of choice created by the elite to keep the amount of resistance against government down. "cause if I dont agree with the left, I can just go with the right"

 

A read on the Skull and Bones

 

 

Robbins says the cast of the initiation ritual is right out of Harry Potter meets Dracula: “There is a devil, a Don Quixote and a Pope who has one foot sheathed in a white monogrammed slipper resting on a stone skull. The initiates are led into the room one at a time. And once an initiate is inside, the Bonesmen shriek at him. Finally, the Bonesman is shoved to his knees in front of Don Quixote as the shrieking crowd falls silent. And Don Quixote lifts his sword and taps the Bonesman on his left shoulder and says, ‘By order of our order, I dub thee knight of Euloga.’"

 

Now honestly, I wouldn't want to lets my kids outside if my neighbors were performing such rituals, but you'll let your government be ran by these type of people? Skull and bones is obviously a door into the elitism in our country. They get played on the chess board to keep the mass distracted from the fact that no matter who wins, nothing changes.

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dog_day_sunrise

 

Skull and Bones has been covered by even mainstream media a few times.. not alot but it has been covered.

I know its hard for people to get a grasp of the whole thing cause it requires such a rewiring of your understanding of the world around you.

I used to be alot like you guys and buy into every single election and thought it actually mattered, then my brother in law starting showing me all of this stuff and at first I disclaimed all of it cause it just sounds so absurd. Start doing your own research and learn to not be so biased, you may be surprised what you turn up with..

Even when you people get face to face with hard evidence they disclaim it cause they just can't subconsciously accept the idea that alot of things you put your trust into throughout your life just may turn up to be one big joke.

You don't give in do you? Christ, you're almost as delusional as an al-Qaeda suicide bomber.

 

1) Yes, and such organisations have existed for hundreds of years. No-one has denied that some of the elite of the elite destined for greatness in the corporate or political world are groomed at a young age; the same is true here in the UK, with the vast majority of our cabinet ministers and high-ranked civil servants coming from private schools like Eton and having been educated at Oxford. Even the security services groom potential intelligence agents at universities based on a combination of their academic performance and campus notoriety- of course including other factors such as foreign language fluency. But to believe that the entire political system is run by these people- are you seriously suggesting that every US presidential candidate is a member of this so-called secret society? How about Jimmy Carter, up until about 2 years before his election as president he was a farmer in Georgia. Or have they been recuriting "sleeper" presidents too?

 

The simple fact of the matter is that such organisations hold very little actual power- an analogy, if you will. Many of those who work in the defence and security sphere are members of RUSI, the Royal United Services Insitute, a defence and strategy think-tank that amongst other things supplies specialists on various aspects of defence, most notably in recent months cyber warfare, the state of the DPRK's military forces and terrorism. You could say that RUSI groom the best international relations and security studies students and induct them into the organisation- with a RUSI membership you are almost guarenteed to go places in the defence and security world. But it's not mandetory- I'm not a member of RUSI and I've worked for DSTL amongst others. Most of these so-called secret societies are similar- they use their connections to give their members assistance in the political or corporate sphere but don't actually wield any power directly themselves.

 

2) No, it's not hard to grasp- not for someone whose studies world politics or international relations. There's a great irony in free, democratic nations- the more oppressive and hostile a government is, the less it's population seem to theorise about alternate realities. In contrast, the US- though almost definately not actually the "freest" country in the world, somehow holds perhaps 90% of all it's conspiracy theories. The human mind is naturally paranoid, it generally holds a glass-half-empty point of view- when things go right, you subconciously try and pick holes in them. Therefore, living in a democratic, respectful and reasonably transparent society will make a minority paranoid beyond belief. They look at the insitutions of the nation, see patters in the upbringing and educational experiences of those at the top and make their own conclusions regarding the real nature of society. That isn't to say that these conclusions are entirely invalid- but they are formed from an underlying subconcious vein of paranoia and mistrust. Trust me, as someone whose seen a decent amount of the inner working of the political and securiy institutions of a nation- if a government really wanted to subjugate its people, there are far easier and far more effective ways of doing so, and ways that are far more opaque than your hazy, (I assume) cannabis-invoked paranoid delusions.

 

It's also very much to do with youth and immaturity. Most people around your age tend to go through a phase of anti-governmentism- in the UK it tends to be socialism or neo-anarchism; some convert to Islam and live out their youthful confusion in Arabic. Now I'm sure one of the great scientific minds has researched into this- personally, I think it's formed partially of a desire to differenciate oneself from those around them- perhaps an archaic coming-of-age instinct designed to make one look more interesting to a potential mate- and partially of that realisation that comes from stepping from childhood to adulthood that the world is a dark, often strange and usually difficult place. Under those circumstances it's perfectly understandable to develop paranoid dellusions. However, the problem comes when the truly paranoid never shake these feelings- this is when you get your Kaczynski's, for example. Sure, some of those paranoid delusionals become famous, they get youtube channels and slots on prime-time TV through which to promote their baseless, paranoid and immature rantings. Remember, this is a nation where more than 20% of the population believe they've been abducted by aliens- so there are plenty of gullible, stupid people out there who fall for the conspiracy theory crap. Just because lots of the lowest common denominator believe it does not make it true.

 

3) "Start your own research and learn not to be biased"- Oh, I'm not. If three years at university and four years in security analysis have taught me anything, it's how to balance an argument. I had to do it for years at uni, and now in my current role when I'm writing a report for a client I need to present all the pros and cons of every possible course of action. And I can say catagorically, hand-on-heart, that not one single thing you have posted, not one single scrap of evidence you have presented, is anything other than completely biased. One of the paramount rules of writing something like a university thesis is "only ever use sources that are open for debate and discussion in their relative theatre of interest"; for example, a book written on a particular subject, or a paper published in a journal, is perfectly acceptable as a source of information. It may still be, in your oppinion, utter rubbish- but using a piece of text that states its sources and is open to criticism enables you to trace the path of an argument and look into the details of why conclusions are being made.

 

I have yet to find a single thread where you have posted any evidence that works within these rules.

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GrandMaster Smith

 

Skull and Bones has been covered by even mainstream media a few times.. not alot but it has been covered.

I know its hard for people to get a grasp of the whole thing cause it requires such a rewiring of your understanding of the world around you.

I used to be alot like you guys and buy into every single election and thought it actually mattered, then my brother in law starting showing me all of this stuff and at first I disclaimed all of it cause it just sounds so absurd. Start doing your own research and learn to not be so biased, you may be surprised what you turn up with..

Even when you people get face to face with hard evidence they disclaim it cause they just can't subconsciously accept the idea that alot of things you put your trust into throughout your life just may turn up to be one big joke.

You don't give in do you? Christ, you're almost as delusional as an al-Qaeda suicide bomber.

 

1) Yes, and such organisations have existed for hundreds of years. No-one has denied that some of the elite of the elite destined for greatness in the corporate or political world are groomed at a young age; the same is true here in the UK, with the vast majority of our cabinet ministers and high-ranked civil servants coming from private schools like Eton and having been educated at Oxford. Even the security services groom potential intelligence agents at universities based on a combination of their academic performance <snip>

 

 

Cannabis induced delusions? 'I smoke so much weed I can't differ reality from my own imagination' haha I think you have cannabis confused with some sorts of hallucinogens..

 

It does not take someone with half a brain to look out at this world and see something is very, very wrong. It is only too obvious.

 

Now you are still thinking very narrow-minded, just because this is the system you were born into and have studied and researched and learned to accept without a second though does not mean it is the only way.. We as a race are capable to so much more, yet thick skulled people still accept these elite who are in control of everything and continue to ruin everything.

 

Is it not questionable that nearly ALL of our presidents are related? .. It's a giant chain of royalty that is kept in the family, just look up the family tree of presidents on wiki or something.

 

And obviously these secret societies DO hold alot of power because they seem to have pre-presidents all the time.. you have to be a complete jackass to say that they have no power and people should just ignore them. Alot of people actually don't know about these things and are very surprised when they find out, because unlike you they are able to tell when something isn't right..

 

And I now beginning to understand your such absence of any sort of paranoia, cause you're from the UK. No personal offense meant but the UK is already in a police state getting even worse as time goes by. For any citizen to accept the BS they have going on over there you would HAVE to have all your trust in the government, no other way around it.

 

But to clear this up, I am not paranoid and delusional as you try to portray me, I am just a person who enjoys their privacy and feels the government has NO right to invade my rights. I don't like these fusion centers that are popping up all around the US that gather information on us. I don't like the 'residential centers' popping up all over as well. It's like they deny their even existence until someone somehow exposes it, then they act as if it's no big deal and nothing to worry about..

Edited by GrandMaster Smith

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