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Wolfenhoffen

Is the United States now a fascist country?

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Wolfenhoffen

I offer this piece of evidence:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skkCpnCm7iM

 

A little boy being strip searched by TSA at an airport.

They forced the poor kid to take his shirt off in front of the whole airport.

And supposedly this is going to make us safer from terrorists?

What a load of sh*t!

 

How much more liberty will Americans throw away for this bullsh*t "war on terror" ?

 

 

 

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The-King

If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

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QwertyAAA
If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

I concur. The mere fact that you have the ability to question it negates the sentiment.

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Ari Gold

He has a point though; it's f*cking absurd for people to strip down a little boy unnecessarily for the "nation's security", especially if you don't have to do it to every single person passing through the security. But, I think that has more to do with the rise of bureaucracy, but that afflicts almost all democracies around the globe. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard of something as nonsensical as that happening at Melbourne or Sydney airport.

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tubbs51
He has a point though; it's f*cking absurd for people to strip down a little boy unnecessarily for the "nation's security", especially if you don't have to do it to every single person passing through the security. But, I think that has more to do with the rise of bureaucracy, but that afflicts almost all democracies around the globe. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard of something as nonsensical as that happening at Melbourne or Sydney airport.

well considering what happens in the middle east... my sister's ex husband served three tours in Iraq and saw a kid with a bomb strapped to his chest and blew up a checkpoint... believe it or not kids arent off limits some times in terrorism... its a sad thing but its unfortunatly true...

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GrandMaster Smith

I see these new scanners and grope downs as basically viewing every American citizens as threats.. aren't you only allowed to be searched if there's reasonable cause involved? Where's your rights when you need em?

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The-King

 

I see these new scanners and grope downs as basically viewing every American citizens as threats.. aren't you only allowed to be searched if there's reasonable cause involved? Where's your rights when you need em?

user posted image

 

They're in my head, I can hear them talking, though when I turn the music down they stop... because they know I'll understand what they're saying.

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dog_day_sunrise
If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

I concur. The mere fact that you have the ability to question it negates the sentiment.

Quoted for truth.

 

Oh, and as a pre-emtive measure- Grandmaster, I've got no interest in trying to talk sense into you in more than one thread, so I won't be coming back to this one.

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GrandMaster Smith

haha wow I just think the new security measures at the airports are a bit extreme. I personally would feel very uncomfortable being man handled like that just by wanting to travel. I see it would be a bit more ideal to search people who'd look more like terrorists, but then again that could be considered profiling so I'm sure some people out there will have a problem with it and argue about that as well..

 

My simple solution to the whole thing, I don't usually travel by air so I avoid it easily, I just wonder whats gotten into their heads searching little children like that.. it just seems a step too far in my eyes. But like TUBBS said earlier there's some crazy sh*t goin on out there so you never know what could happen so it is tough to draw the line..

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nerner

 

haha wow I just think the new security measures at the airports are a bit extreme. I personally would feel very uncomfortable being man handled like that just by wanting to travel. I see it would be a bit more ideal to search people who'd look more like terrorists, but then again that could be considered profiling so I'm sure some people out there will have a problem with it and argue about that as well..

 

We had some great fun with that in the UK in the 1980's. The Sus law effectively gave police the power to stop black people and search them if they were just walking down the street. It caused riots. If you were only to search people who didn't conform to the stereotype of being normal people you'd effectively just be persecuting people of different races. Also, don't think that terrorists don't already brainwash white people to becoming fanatical muslims. See Nicky Reilly. So not only would people probably have a problem with it and argue about it as well, you'd force terrorists to start recruiting stereotypical Americans, which could only end badly for you all.

 

Any system which relies only on looks or even suspicion to determine whether or not peole should be searched is entirely subjective, misguided and therefore an unnecessary expense to the taxpayer.

Edited by nerner

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lloydo

These are delicate times, it's near impossible to tell who's your enemy and your ally. The fact is you're dealing with fanatics, a near undefeatable enemy with a history of success with primitive techniques.

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coin-god
If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

But this is internet. Not USA.

 

Just saying.

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nerner
If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

But this is internet. Not USA.

 

Just saying.

A true fascist state would have your neighbours and even members of your own family watching you and reporing back to them. So that doesn't matter at all.

 

Plus, as you can see with many "problem" countries such as China and Burma, certain internet sites such as facebook and some discussion pages are actually banned.

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Wolfenhoffen

 

If we were living in a fascist police state you wouldn't be able to ask that question, now would you?

 

Quit with your delusions, they've gotten stale.

I concur. The mere fact that you have the ability to question it negates the sentiment.

That ability to question may not exist in the near future.

So according to you guys, we should all just remain in denial and give up whatever liberties we have under the guise of protecting ourselves from potential terrorist threats?

 

So would it be ok if a TSA official gropes your child's butt cheeks or crotch while searching for a bomb? (if you don't have a kid, just pretend you do) No need to avoid the question, just a simple yes or no will do.

 

 

well considering what happens in the middle east... my sister's ex husband served three tours in Iraq and saw a kid with a bomb strapped to his chest and blew up a checkpoint... believe it or not kids arent off limits some times in terrorism... its a sad thing but its unfortunatly true...

Iraq is a far cry from the USA.

So should we have road checkpoints with armed soldiers here too, to stop us and ask for I.D.?

 

 

I see these new scanners and grope downs as basically viewing every American citizens as threats.. aren't you only allowed to be searched if there's reasonable cause involved? Where's your rights when you need em?

Oddly enough, muslims may be exempt from the new airport security procedures:

 

"As the U.S. government retaliates against an American for refusing to allow airport security to grope his genitals, the nation’s Homeland Security secretary considers waving the intrusive “pat-downs” for Muslim women who consider them offensive."

SOURCE: http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/nov...rport-pat-downs

 

Now isn't that funny?

Regular Americans will be treated as potential terrorists will some muslims may be entirely exempt from the new security procedures!

 

 

A true fascist state would have your neighbours and even members of your own family watching you and reporing back to them. So that doesn't matter at all.

You don't need that when you have CCTV!

 

user posted image

 

Almost the entire city of London is already covered with CCTV cameras.

Every city will be like that in the future.

Edited by Wolfenhoffen

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Struff Bunstridge

 

So would it be ok if a TSA official gropes your child's butt cheeks or crotch while searching for a bomb? (if you don't have a kid, just pretend you do) No need to avoid the question, just a simple yes or no will do.

No. Don't be ridiculous. It wouldn't be OK if they did it to me either, but I'm not calling for a blanket ban on body searches at airports on the off chance I might get groped a bit.

 

On topic, why shouldn't the child get searched? Anyone could be carrying. I object to having to throw away my aftershave because I left it in my hand luggage as much as the next guy, but if there's a legitimate threat, I for one am happy to see measures in place to help prevent it.

 

Don't forget that if things like this seem extreme, it's only because the things they're trying to protect us against are equally extreme. I hardly think it's appropriate to suggest we're giving up every last shred of our human rights; one kid had to take his shirt off. Big deal.

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nlitement

Except for one thing: terrorist attacks are extremely rare. And why does everybody assume terrorists would now target PLANES? You don't see any real security at Wal-Mart, and they're at least as packed as airports. Why not blow one up during the holiday season?

 

Harassing random people just so you feel more "safe" going on a plane is a big sham. Why aren't people flying on private jets subject to the same groping as airliner passengers?

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Mainland Marauder

I'm only going to say this once.

 

There is a legitimate debate here and if you don't like it, or you think the OP is a conspiracy nut, then just ignore this thread.

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E.A.B.
So according to you guys, we should all just remain in denial and give up whatever liberties we have under the guise of protecting ourselves from potential terrorist threats?

The problem here is this:

 

You can either try to protect people and search them at airports, or not. Simple choice, but the consequences are this:

 

Choice A (Search 'em)=People, like you, claiming this is intrusive

 

Choice B (Leave 'em)=People complaining that the state isn't doing enough to protect its citizens.

 

Imagine the week after 911. Now imagine Bush proclaiming; 'We will not change screening at airports, we don't want to stomp on civil liberties and privacy'.

 

Now imagine Bush being kicked out of office by force. You can see the problem, no?

 

 

haha wow I just think the new security measures at the airports are a bit extreme.

You can't blame them; you did kinda make yourself out to be some sort of Dale Gribble in the last thread

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Wolfenhoffen
Imagine the week after 911. Now imagine Bush proclaiming; 'We will not change screening at airports, we don't want to stomp on civil liberties and privacy'.

 

It wasn't lack of screening that allowed those 9/11 hijackers to do what they did (if we assume that the official version of the 9/11 story is correct). The lack of lockable, reinforced cockpit doors is what really allowed those hijackers to kill the pilots and take control of the planes. Before 9/11, any nut job could have wandered into the cockpit of an American airliner and brought it crashing to the ground!

There wasn't any security policy before 9/11 about having lockable, secure cockpit doors, something that should seem like common sense to anyone concerned with air travel safety.

 

No need to stomp on Americans' civil liberties either.

All the supposed perps behind 9/11 were foreign nationals from Islamic countries, 15 from Saudi Arabia alone.

The security should focus on those who fit the terrorist profile, wouldn't that make sense? That is what makes Israel's airports safer than any other countries, because they aren't afraid to call a spade a spade when they see one. They won't rigorously search 8 yr old Jewish kids or Japanese tourists because they know they don't pose any threat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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E.A.B.

I mean, I'm simply trying to show you how complex the issue is.

 

But do you really think that lockable doors was the problem? Really?

 

Now that's absurd. Hell, let's say the cockpits had better security than Fort Knox. You would instead have a situation that would turn into a hostage situation. What does a pilot do then?

 

I sometimes like to take a step back and think, 'what's the bigger issue at hand?'.

 

I don't f*cking get it, I don't understand it, but they seem to be pissed about something. What, though? THAT'S the bigger problem.

 

Wait, but that isn't what this topic is about. But I'll tie it in nicely; we do have to tread carefully. The terrorists will never topple America. But America can desecrate itself through what many perceive to be violations of liberties.

 

UNF UNF; I like how it all came together. UNF.

 

edit-and I will say that America is NOT a fascist country right now. That's LAUGHABLE. f*ck, if this is fascism, then Europe must be some sort of KING fascist.

Edited by E.A.B.

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dog_day_sunrise

I think people are misunderstanding the concept of fascism.

>Authoritarian? Nope, not really

>Radical? Again, nope.

>Corporal, collectivised economy? Nope

 

Not fascism.

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K^2

 

>Authoritarian? Nope, not really

Does not have to be strictly authoritarian. Ability of executive branch to publish executive orders, circumventing legislature entirely, is sufficient to fulfill strong vertical of power condition.

 

>Radical? Again, nope.

Not a condition for Fascist government, sorry. It's more common that Fascist government is established by a radical group, but it isn't in itself a condition.

 

>Corporal, collectivised economy? Nope

That's mostly the problem of time frame. Corporatism makes sense under heavy industrialization. We live in post-industrial world. We have rule of corporations to take place. Same idea. You have big businesses, and all of the chains underneath them with all of the employees are just gears in the large machine. This is the modern equivalent of corporatism.

 

Calling it a Neo-Fascism would probably be more correct, and some of these points are a bit stretched, but the trend is there, and that alone should be worrying.

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dog_day_sunrise
>Authoritarian? Nope, not really

Does not have to be strictly authoritarian. Ability of executive branch to publish executive orders, circumventing legislature entirely, is sufficient to fulfill strong vertical of power condition.

 

>Radical? Again, nope.

Not a condition for Fascist government, sorry. It's more common that Fascist government is established by a radical group, but it isn't in itself a condition.

 

>Corporal, collectivised economy? Nope

That's mostly the problem of time frame. Corporatism makes sense under heavy industrialization. We live in post-industrial world. We have rule of corporations to take place. Same idea. You have big businesses, and all of the chains underneath them with all of the employees are just gears in the large machine. This is the modern equivalent of corporatism.

 

Calling it a Neo-Fascism would probably be more correct, and some of these points are a bit stretched, but the trend is there, and that alone should be worrying.

Part of the definition for fascism is authoritarian government:

 

a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

The fact that it is defined as opposing democratic or liberal government indicates that it's radical as a precondition. A democratic authoritarian state would not be fascist.

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K^2

United States is neither a Democracy nor Liberal, and due to the executive orders, as stated, it falls under authoritarian hierarchy.

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antikuffaar1979

sir, you watched too many police state sci-fi movies from alex jones

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dog_day_sunrise

 

United States is neither a Democracy nor Liberal, and due to the executive orders, as stated, it falls under authoritarian hierarchy.

Utter crap. If the US is neither democratic nor liberal, why is it ranked 18th on the Democracy index, 8th on the Liberty index, and (just) in the top 20 on the Reporters without Borders index of press freedom?

 

 

sir, you watched too many police state sci-fi movies from alex jones

Quoted for truth

Edited by dog_day_sunrise

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lloydo

It may call itself a democracy, but it isn't in the eyes of other nations. It places itself high above others, acting as chief police protector for the world, and maintaining global economic dominance in the meantime, though failing to now. It has disobeyed U.N regulations and votes like any other nation.

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Mike Tequeli
haha wow I just think the new security measures at the airports are a bit extreme. I personally would feel very uncomfortable being man handled like that just by wanting to travel. I see it would be a bit more ideal to search people who'd look more like terrorists, but then again that could be considered profiling so I'm sure some people out there will have a problem with it and argue about that as well..

 

My simple solution to the whole thing, I don't usually travel by air so I avoid it easily, I just wonder whats gotten into their heads searching little children like that.. it just seems a step too far in my eyes. But like TUBBS said earlier there's some crazy sh*t goin on out there so you never know what could happen so it is tough to draw the line..

Then make a topic about that for f*cks sake, don't be so dramatic, it undermines your point. You have all these people, who in their hate for you are praising the TSA, the most incompetent unnecessary department of government this side of the DEA.

 

America is not a fascist country because it democratically elects leaders , almost to extreme degree (elected sheriffs etc). If you bring up the fact that the US is a republic and not a democracy please kill yourself.

 

The economic model of the US is not fascist and not (explicitly) corporatist. This has changed a bit since the bailouts and stimulus and the general policy of propping up major corporations instead of allowing proper competition, but regardless it is mostly a capitalist free market country.

 

 

 

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antikuffaar1979
sir, you watched too many police state sci-fi movies from alex jones

Quoted for truth

pwned biggrin.gif

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