Download or Box Set

[oneworld25]

Hi All,

 

I'm thinking of buying GTAIV and was wondering if it's a better idea to buy the game as a download (Direct2Drive, Steam, etc.) or if I should purchase a physical copy. In particular, I want to make sure all the patches will work with the downloaded version.

[mkey82]

IMO retail is better as you have the some maneuvering space when it comes to patches. Don't know what's the situation with D2D, but Steam automatically updates the game to the latest version and this can cause inconveniences sometimes.

 

What are your PC specs?

[IronHide-AW]

I use the digital distrubtion version. No issues with patches.

[sjaak327]

For IV I have the retail version, I like to have a booklet and other stuff, and of course no waiting time to download.

 

Regarding EFLC, I actually own EFLC twice. I first bought the retail disk, but hated the wasted diskspace and the inability to have just one executable being able to run all three episodes (IV, TLAD and TBOGT). So I did bite the bullet and purchased the dlc's through live. Never regretted it for one minute, it is so much nicer to have just one executable and be able to start any of the episodes. Yes you miss vice city FM, but for the rest, it sure beats having to launch IV separate from EFLC.

 

 

 

 

[jnzooger]

For IV I have the retail version, I like to have a booklet and other stuff, and of course no waiting time to download.

 

Regarding EFLC, I actually own EFLC twice. I first bought the retail disk, but hated the wasted diskspace and the inability to have just one executable being able to run all three episodes (IV, TLAD and TBOGT). So I did bite the bullet and purchased the dlc's through live. Never regretted it for one minute, it is so much nicer to have just one executable and be able to start any of the episodes. Yes you miss vice city FM, but for the rest, it sure beats having to launch IV separate from EFLC.

I don't know about you, but I personally like having a different exe for each game. I really wish I could find a way to launch TLaD and BoGT separately actually.

[Dwagginz]

I'm going to say retail simply because you're talking a minimum of 20GB if you want GTA IV and one DLC pack, going up to ~32GB for GTA IV + Episodes. Unless your connection is great, or you don't plan to uninstall, I just think a game this size is better to have on a disc.

[sjaak327]

For IV I have the retail version, I like to have a booklet and other stuff, and of course no waiting time to download.

 

Regarding EFLC, I actually own EFLC twice. I first bought the retail disk, but hated the wasted diskspace and the inability to have just one executable being able to run all three episodes (IV, TLAD and TBOGT). So I did bite the bullet and purchased the dlc's through live. Never regretted it for one minute, it is so much nicer to have just one executable and be able to start any of the episodes. Yes you miss vice city FM, but for the rest, it sure beats having to launch IV separate from EFLC.

I don't know about you, but I personally like having a different exe for each game. I really wish I could find a way to launch TLaD and BoGT separately actually.

Different strokes for different folks I guess, for me personally it is a god's gift to be able to have just one executable, it makes things so much easier, especially when you're developing for this game (like I'm doing). Not to mention the waste of diskspace EFLC causes, I mean the whole map and cars + vehicles + weapons + speeches are on the disc twice, instead of 15.6 gb for IV and 16.1 gb for EFLC I now have just 15.6GB for IV and another 7 or so for the dlc's.

 

 

[Wolf68k]

Ignoring the time it takes to download here's another perspective to look at.

If you're the OCD type, meaning you take extra special care of your stuff then the retail is a good way to go. More so if you already have the previous games as retail versions too. I will say that having the physical manual is nice as is having the map, which I've actually used at times to find things that the game map couldn't show.

 

If however you're the type that kind of messy and cluttered, you have a stack of discs that aren't in their cases, or you keep scratching game discs (PC or console) or worse breaking them in some way. Then the download method would be the better choice. You have nothing to lose, scratch or break.

 

However other reasons to think about going with the download version:

No need to put in a disc in your CD/DVD drive just to play

No need to ask, search, and run risk of getting a virus or other nasty by looking for a no-cd exe or iso/mini-iso or anything else that may or may not break DRM

 

 

Personally I like Steam. I look at my every growing list of games on Steam and then look at my shelf of retail games and think 'if I had all of those games in Steam as a physical copy I'm gonna need a butt load more shelves'.

[Jigglyass]

Retail, even though i have 25mbs fios service, still takes some time to DL both DLCs...

Also, i have a shelf, dedicated to all my PC games, i like having a physical game, so i can add it to my sweet ass collection.

[radioman]

The Retail(disc) version is a lot better, because you always have the game disc handy, which means you can install the game(s) on how ever many PC's you have without having to buy a seprate copy for each PC via Download, also, something nobody has brought up yet, is if you buy the Download, and you have a hard drive failure/or you have to replace your hard drive/buy a new PC for whatever reason, then you just lost your game(s) and money, as you will have to re-download and re-pay to get your games back, whereas with the disc, you always have the game handy just incase you have to re-install. Also, the disc version of games have more modding ability than download versions(take SA for example, the Steam/D2D version of it is V3, which is basically un-moddable as compared to V2). Also, Downloadable games can take anywhere from 1hour to 5hours to download, depending on your internet speed and whether or not your IP is at full speed(I know Cox Communications does A LOT of updating of the lines, so there is usually a lot of time where you are not able to use the full speed of the internet connection.), whereas with the disc version, you can install and run the game in as little as 30 minutes or less. Also, another good point about the Retail (disc) version, is you do not run the risk of getting viruses/adware/spyware on your PC like you do with downloads. Also, as far as save game comptibility, a lot of times, the Download version saves are not compatible with Retail version saves, so you are basically on your own as far as gameplay goes-you will not be able to download saves that get posted on the forums, like GTAForums.

 

As for Patches for the games, With Downloadable games, the patches get applied automatically, so if your game was running great on the previous version/patch and then after the new patch is applied, your game runs like crap, you will more than likely not be able to "roll back" to the previous patch like you could with the disc version. Also, a lot of times, the disc version is a lot cheaper than the Download version(again take SA for example, the last time I checked, the Steam/D2D version was still $19.99, whereas the Retail version(disc version) was only $9.99-that's $10 cheaper than the Download versio, so that would make more sense right?) Just a heads up/my 2 cents.

Edited November 3, 2010 by radioman

[sjaak327]

^ The resaon nobody brought up the point of the re-purchase, is because that's not at all the case. After a HD failure, you need to redownload but not repurchase the product, as these downloads are linked to your live account or steam account for instance. Services that make you repurchase after a HD failure should and will be out of business in seconds.

 

 

[IronHide-AW]

@radioman

 

In addition to sjaak's completely accurate response, generally the only time a DD version is already patched is when a patch is ( a ) known to be extremely solid for a majority of those that have applied it and/or ( b ) known to have addressed very greavious issues where the as-released version is utterly broken. In those cases the developer themselves deliver to distributors a DD that's already patched to that version, just like they will do if they re-release it on disc or update the master(s) used when stamping.

 

It's also hugely cheaper for companies to do more digital and less hard-copy releases. There will always be hard-copies for some that desperately need to hold a pre-printed manual or map in their hands, especially limited or special editions, but DD is here to stay and will significantly (thankfully) grow into the future.

 

It is true hard-copies gathering dust on a shelf or bottom of a bin go cheaper, but you pay for convenience as with anything. My time, the cost of fuel, traffic and the lack of many stores actually having a copy of what I'm after in stock makes clicking a button to get it instead very useful

 

I do have to say your comment about multiple computers in your house being easier to upgrade using a disc instead of a DD is just bizzare. If you have multiple machines capable of running the game and do not have them networked together using any number of the various technology then thats just odd.

 

But the most important factor which is so obvious (just to me?). External storage. USB / eSATA. In your multiple-computer scenario, you'd rather carry around a fragile disc opening and closing trays to install it versus sticking in a thumbdrive?

 

Related to that, I much prefer having X-number of games sitting in a games archive folder on external storage I can just instantly go get and not have shelves or boxes full of discs to riffle through. Just a matter of preference.

 

I like technology, especially when it saves me time and makes things less annoying. There's another 2/cents added + overhead for convenience!

Edited November 4, 2010 by IronHide-AW

[Chevyboy]

@radioman

 

In addition to sjaak's completely accurate response, generally the only time a DD version is already patched is when a patch is ( a ) known to be extremely solid for a majority of those that have applied it and/or ( b ) known to have addressed very greavious issues where the as-released version is utterly broken. In those cases the developer themselves deliver to distributors a DD that's already patched to that version, just like they will do if they re-release it on disc or update the master(s) used when stamping.

 

It's also hugely cheaper for companies to do more digital and less hard-copy releases. There will always be hard-copies for some that desperately need to hold a pre-printed manual or map in their hands, especially limited or special editions, but DD is here to stay and will significantly (thankfully) grow into the future.

 

It is true hard-copies gathering dust on a shelf or bottom of a bin go cheaper, but you pay for convenience as with anything. My time, the cost of fuel, traffic and the lack of many stores actually having a copy of what I'm after in stock makes clicking a button to get it instead very useful

 

I do have to say your comment about multiple computers in your house being easier to upgrade using a disc instead of a DD is just bizzare. If you have multiple machines capable of running the game and do not have them networked together using any number of the various technology then thats just odd.

 

But the most important factor which is so obvious (just to me?). External storage. USB / eSATA. In your multiple-computer scenario, you'd rather carry around a fragile disc opening and closing trays to install it versus sticking in a thumbdrive?

 

Related to that, I much prefer having X-number of games sitting in a games archive folder on external storage I can just instantly go get and not have shelves or boxes full of discs to riffle through. Just a matter of preference.

 

I like technology, especially when it saves me time and makes things less annoying. There's another 2/cents added + overhead for convenience!

It's post like this that make me wish this forum had a "thanks" feature. Well said.

[mkey82]

 

In addition to sjaak's completely accurate response, generally the only time a DD version is already patched is when a patch is ( a ) known to be extremely solid

In case of steam and GTAIV, doesn't steam firstly download the 1.0.0.0 version of the game and then automatically updates it to the latest game version without asking a thing? Generally there would be no problems with this, but in case of GTAIV it is good to have the option to install any update (game version) you want.

 

D2D seems to offer only two game versions http://www.direct2drive.com/patches/ So, I'll restate that for GTAIV retail is probably the better option.

 

 

It's also hugely cheaper for companies to do more digital and less hard-copy releases.

YES! But until retailers stop dictating DD game prices, we will not see the best distribution service up to date take off properly. Luckily there are smaller developer houses for whom DD is practically the only venue so there's decent games volume on said services.

[IronHide-AW]

 

In case of steam and GTAIV, doesn't steam firstly download the 1.0.0.0 version of the game and then automatically updates it...

 

 

I was only covering pure stand-alone DD which is why I used the D2D example, not the Steam variant of DD. Steam is a total software platform unto itself with its own requirements, quirks, annoyances and "features". Anything Steam does, such as uncontrollably or unstoppably updating a game to a version you don't want, is Steams fault. Maybe sending messages to their technical support asking "how do I use a partiuclar version?" would get results? No idea.

 

 

 

D2D seems to offer only two game versions http://www.direct2drive.com/patches/ So, I'll restate that for GTAIV retail is probably the better option.

 

 

I use direct patching with the title-7 patch against it from the official site, not from the DD site. Works good. Since I prefer to use the latest patches and not ancient versions I have no frame of reference now on how easy or hard it is to get the old patches for the DD version. Early on in DD it was more tedious because you had to find a specific DD version of a patch (usually just because of SR/DRM) but that is also becoming less of an issue which is great, and should continue to the point of simply being transparent to the end user.

 

Externally storing any number of games on a single robust device I can leave plugged up, or just sitting on my desk or in a flap in my laptop bag versus the clutter and gigantic space of the same amount in traditional medium is not even in the same league. It's the very same concept as do you still carry around a big-ass music CD carrying case, or do you have an MP3 device with thousands of CD worth of music? You are most welcome to fill your room, closest and a corner of your garage with hundreds and hundreds of discs. I chose having them all on a single 2inch device. But again that's preference.

Edited November 4, 2010 by IronHide-AW

[mkey82]

 

Anything Steam does, such as uncontrollably or unstoppably updating a game to a version you don't want, is Steams fault.

This is not steam's fault actually, as in normal cases you will not have a problem with using the latest game version. Steam however does like to ignore the "don't update" flag in some cases, they need to work on that, but that's another issue.

 

 

I use direct patching with the title-7 patch against it from the official site, not from the DD site.

How does the launcher work then?

[IronHide-AW]

 

This is not steam's fault actually, as in normal cases you will not have a problem with using the latest game version. Steam however does like to ignore the "don't update" flag in some cases, they need to work on that, but that's another issue.

 

 

 

Must be a language barrier. Read more closely and try again. Anything Steam does is Steams fault. Steam uncontrollably "doing something" is Steams fault. Noone said it was Steams fault a patch is needed. Only that it's Steams fault for not providing flexibility to the user if they want to run a specific version without Steam interferring or failing in any way with that choice. Make more sense worded like that? I excluded Steam originally on purpose because as I already said Steam is it's own platform and does not represent a pure DD. If that's still not clear I don't know how else to say it.

 

 

How does the launcher work then?

 

 

By clicking the Play button.

[mkey82]

 

Must be a language barrier.

There is no language barrier, at least not on my end. Like I said, Steam doesn't offer what normal games don't need anyway. They could have the option to install some game version or the other, but then only another slew of issues would arise - like people not being able to join multiplayer. Normal games benefit from newer, more up to date game versions. ATM the only game that comes to mind that has random feature breaking patches is GTAIV.

 

The inability to effectively turn of updates is a Steam fault, obviously.

 

 

By clicking the Play button.

The launcher contained in the retail update has a cd check. DD games don't come with disks, afaik.

[IronHide-AW]

 

There is no language barrier, at least not on my end.

 

 

You posted a response to me that made absolutely no sense within the context of what I actually said, so that appears to be a barrier.

 

 

The launcher contained in the retail update has a cd check. DD games don't come with disks, afaik.

 

 

Perhaps you should actually try it before assuming it?

 

This latest machine is now the 6th machine over time I've installed the DD from D2D on. Just finished minutes ago. Installed the game base DD version from so long ago (1.0), updated using official title 7 as I already said, updated GFWL using external package direct from Microsoft, clicked the Launcher, clicked Play, Entered the game, staring at Niko background with the games main menu. Just another booyah! for DD versus disc. Didn't have to go hunt down a damn thing. All sitting in my DD GTA-IV archives folder. Boom, done, next?

 

----------------------

Edited:

----------------------

 

********

- Edited-2

Just did some extensive experiments and I think the 66 is actually a reflection of the CPU cores (that are actually being used) hitting my configured 4.3 ceiling. Based on what I'm seeing using a variety of tools, the 480's are yawning. So just another extreme example of GTA-IV eating CPU like a fat-man at a buffet. To bad it can't eat more and spread its fat ass around better

********

 

Since I had to go ahead and confirm it yet again with another install, might as well post results too?

 

Just pure title-7 patched DD straight from DD 1.0 to 7 with zero issues of any kind.

 

To bad it doesn't have a Very High for graphics. Note every nVidia CP setting is set for maximum quality.

Not running any command-line options either since don't need them.

 

Pretty good considering I haven't OC'd the 480's yet. Just running at nVidia reference clocks.

 

Statistics

Average FPS: 66.03

Duration: 37.12 sec

CPU Usage: 21%

System memory usage: 67%

Video memory usage: 91%

 

Graphics Settings

Video Mode: 1920 x 1200 (60 Hz)

Texture Quality: High

Shadow Quality: Very High

Reflection Resolution: Very High

Water Quality: Very High

Texture Filter Quality: Anisotropic x16

Night Shadows: Very High

View Distance: 100

Detail Distance: 100

 

Hardware

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional

 

Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480

Video Driver version: 260.99

Audio Adapter: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)

Intel® Core i7 CPU X 980 @ 3.33GHz (<-- yeah right, and the sky is made of cheese.)

 

File ID: Benchmark.cli

Edited November 4, 2010 by IronHide-AW

[sjaak327]

Must be a language barrier.

There is no language barrier, at least not on my end. Like I said, Steam doesn't offer what normal games don't need anyway. They could have the option to install some game version or the other, but then only another slew of issues would arise - like people not being able to join multiplayer. Normal games benefit from newer, more up to date game versions. ATM the only game that comes to mind that has random feature breaking patches is GTAIV.

 

The inability to effectively turn of updates is a Steam fault, obviously.

 

 

By clicking the Play button.

The launcher contained in the retail update has a cd check. DD games don't come with disks, afaik.

Yeah like steam which is using the exact same launcher as the retail disk, except in the launchgtaiv.exe or launchelfc.exe, the securom stuff is removed, therefore these launchers actually work 100% on the retail versions as well, effectively a no-dvd launcher.

 

 

[jnzooger]

If you're the OCD type, meaning you take extra special care of your stuff then the retail is a good way to go. More so if you already have the previous games as retail versions too. I will say that having the physical manual is nice as is having the map, which I've actually used at times to find things that the game map couldn't show.

<snip>

Personally I like Steam. I look at my every growing list of games on Steam and then look at my shelf of retail games and think 'if I had all of those games in Steam as a physical copy I'm gonna need a butt load more shelves'.

First off, heya wolf, long time no see.

 

Back on topic: This is totally me. I have to have every copy of every game R* makes. If it comes with a different poster, I have to get it. (There are exceptions like the triple pack of GTA3 for PC.) But then again, I'm a collector.

 

As far as Steam goes, its awesome, as long as I can buy the disc version. Like with Half-Life Anthology and L4D, I bought the disc versions, and then just popped in the key to Steam. This way if there is ever a question over who owns the license to the games on the account, I have a physical copy to use with account support. (Like if my account gets hacked or something, I have proof its my account.) With the pure digital versions, you are usually screwed in that case.

[mkey82]

 

You posted a response to me that made absolutely no sense within the context of what I actually said, so that appears to be a barrier.

"To me", yes, that's the important bit.

 

 

Perhaps you should actually try it before assuming it?

I wasn't assuming anything, I was wondering. Again, if there is a language barrier, it's not on my end. The retail launcher will look for a CD, so in case of DD + retail patches only two things are possible

 

a) the patch recognizes there is a DD version launcher so it doesn't overwrite it (I doubt it, though)

b) the DD version has a differently named launcher so it doesn't get overwritten by the retail launcher from the patch. This is actually easy to check, simply by looking at the shortcut target.

 

Also, note that some games that had cracks coming from various DD services applied on retail release had issues in the long run as the executable files didn't match assets perfectly. Again, just a note, nothing worth getting upset about.

[IronHide-AW]

 

I wasn't assuming anything, I was wondering

 

 

Oh! Well damn. You know what. Maybe the barrier isn't language. Maybe it's the fact chat sucks at conveying actual intent, and can be so easily misread.

 

 

Also, note that some games that had cracks coming from various DD services applied on retail release had issues in the long run as the executable files didn't match assets perfectly.

 

 

Legit services? I do know D2D has been legit from day 1 and I've tried to help them grow via using it. Good stuff.

 

As far as not matching assets, no of course not. Byte counts, crc and other factors would certainly cause an official patch to not recognize a target binary modified in ways it isn't coded to expect or account for. However as I said it is becoming much more common for official patches to additionally recognize a DD along with its normal box counterpart. Makes things a lot more smooth for the end user that way.

 

Anyway this has been a good thread. Some excellent points of view supporting both sides of the DD/Box spectrum. Nothing is perfect, each has down sides so it comes down to personal preference and what works best for any particular individual.

[kristjankalev]

I dont know, which option is the best, BUT DONT BUY FROM STEAM...it makes the game buggy and laggy

[Dwagginz]

I dont know, which option is the best, BUT DONT BUY FROM STEAM...it makes the game buggy and laggy

Normally I'd go "lolstfu", but I'll admit that since switching from GTA IV (Steam) to a disc copy, the game feels smoother and performs a bit better, even if I have the Steam Overlay running. It's quite strange.

[mkey82]

Normally I'd go "lolstfu", but I'll admit that since switching from GTA IV (Steam) to a disc copy, the game feels smoother and performs a bit better, even if I have the Steam Overlay running. It's quite strange.

It's probably one of 100000000 random factors that impact GTAIV performance.

[OutOfTimer]

Very interesting discussion! I remember talking about it with sjaak327 shortly after EfLC's release and we completely disagreed on what to do. Here's my take on this:

 

I believe it's best to have one physical copy and one digital copy (I prefer Direct2Drive) of both games. The simple reason is that the D2D copy is much faster to deploy after OS reinstallation. DVDs are much slower than a SATA II HDD, not to mention they have to be swapped twice during the installation process. On the other hand, it's nice to have a physical copy in case of HDD failure and something to look at on your shelf. D2D lets you redownload your games at any time so there are no problems with that either. To be honest, I find the digital copies much more attractive recently - especially if it's not my favourite game. I also admit I am a little obsessed with my game collection.

 

As far as LIVE goes, I hate the fact Micro$oft requires you to be signed in to play your game (the episodes won't work with xliveless). In addition, Micro$oft hides your game deep in the LIVE directory, presumably because paying $20 for one episode makes you a thief. I bought TBoGT from LIVE and regreted it. Also... f*uck Micro$oft.

Edited November 5, 2010 by OutOfTimer

[Wolf68k]

@jnzooger

Back at ya, long time no see. I stick to the TechChat and lately a bit to the GFX request.

As for the topic, I completely agree the physical copy like in the case of Steam games is very nice and has you said very help if your account gets hijacked which mine did. I contacted Steam support and they had me write my name on the insert that game with the games and scan that in and email it back to them. It took about a month total to get my account back and I changed the password not only my Steam pass but all of my passwords to a much harder one. Although keeping mind it might have gotten jacked before, or as a result, that Steam had be hacked and a bunch of people's account info was stolen and at the time I didn't pay must attention to Steam. Once I did get my account back I asked them what the point of the account's secret Q&A is if it's never used. Even when I got it back and was changing my email and pass to what I wanted it never once asked for the Q&A. However if you try to do that these days it will ask for the Q&A and ask for the old pass...if memory serves me right it does, it's been a while since I've had to try it.

 

 

@OutOfTimer

I see where you were going with that but I think it's a bit off. Installing a game from a physic disc is going to be by far faster that getting it from D2D or Steam or the alike. Now if it's a small/older game that comes on a single CD and you have a 10+Mbit/sec download then it might be faster to download and install.

 

 

One other thing I'll give to downloading the game through Steam, not sure about D2D or other services, is they will have really great deals and more so with pre-order of games. For example: Mafia II, if you pre-ordered, which I seriously wish I had done, you got a free copy of Mafia 1 and could start playing right away plus you got some extras for Mafia II once it was released I forget off hand what they were but it pretty much like getting bonus stuff on a 2-disc DVD compared to the 1-disc version of the same movie.

Medal of Honor 2010 (whatever they want to call it) the pre-order include exclusive weapons and gear and early access to unlockables. SplinterCell Conviction was the same way. I later for SCC Deluxe in a bunch deal with all of the previous games in the series but the price was less than the SCC non-Deluxe version, but this is the kind of deal I was talking about be.

Now I know in the past before download retailers like Steam were as popular where I've pre-ordered BFV and got an audio CD of the music from the game. Pre-ordered with GameStop for BF2 and BF2SF and got a headset (never used) and t-shirt (never worn). All of which is some nice swag, no doubt. But it's rare that I've ever seen a deal if you pre-order a physical copy of a game do you get any in-game extras and fewer these days of the physical swag which that doesn't surprise me since more and more these day people want the DLC swag rather than the physical.

 

And just to cover it again. Yes when you have a Steam account and your HDD takes a dump you didn't lose your money or your games. Just log in and they are there, you only have to redownload them.

When I built a new rig I just reinstalled Steam, logged in and all my games were there. So when I ready to finally get around to playing HL1 I left the DVD in the case and on the shelf and told Steam which I wanted to play.

 

One last thing I have to hand it to Steam. Last night I wanted to test out Mafia II and got the demo. While the demo was downloading and installing, although I know not completely installing that happens at the first time run, I said what the hell and started playing Lara Croft Guardian of Light. Show me where you can that while installing a physical version.

Oh and unless I'm wrong Steam was the only place, for the PC, where you could play the beta of the latest Medal Of Honor.

 

 

sorry long winded again

[sjaak327]

 

Very interesting discussion! I remember talking about it with sjaak327 shortly after EfLC's release and we completely disagreed on what to do. Here's my take on this:

 

I believe it's best to have one physical copy and one digital copy (I prefer Direct2Drive) of both games. The simple reason is that the D2D copy is much faster to deploy after OS reinstallation. DVDs are much slower than a SATA II HDD, not to mention they have to be swapped twice during the installation process. On the other hand, it's nice have a physical copy in case of HDD failure and something to look at on your shelf. D2D lets you redownload your games at any time so there are no problems with that either. To be honest, I find the digital copies much more attractive recently - especially if it's not my favourite game. I also admit I am a little obsessed with my game collection.

 

As far as LIVE goes, I hate the fact Micro$oft requires you to be signed in to play your game (the episodes won't work with xliveless). In addition, Micro$oft hides your game deep in the LIVE directory, presumably because paying $20 for one episode makes you a thief. I bought TBoGT from LIVE and regreted it. Also... f*uck Micro$oft.

Normally I too would want the disc, as it comes with a booklet, map and what not.

 

In the case of the dlc's Rockstar dropped the ball IMHO, they should have integrated EFLC with IV IF the installer would detect that IV was already installed on the computer. The sole reason I bought the DLC's again on GFWL was that at least there they are integrated. As I said before, it makes developing much easier. Also I like to add cars to IV (around 40 added cars) when I had EFLC separate from IV, I needed to edit the files + archives twice, now with IV + DLC's I only do it once, and all 40 added cars are available in IV and in both of the episodes.

 

By the way, you can easily change the location at which GFWL installs the DLC's. By default they are installed at C:\users\username\appdata\local\microsoft\xlive\dlc, but you can change the location by using the full GFWL client. Also the download folder can be changed by using the same full GFWL client.

 

I still don't know why you hate Microsoft so much by the way, it's not as if this company is the only software company in the world aiming at making profits !

 

 

Edited November 5, 2010 by sjaak327

[OutOfTimer]

@sjaak327: I'm not questioning your choice of LIVE over other options, I was just adding to the discussion as I think it's very interesting to read other people's opinions on this matter. You know best what to do. Thanks for the info about the full GFWL client, too. It will surely prove useful someday.

 

And as far as corporations go, I fully understand your argument. I know what they're doing and why they're doing it. It doesn't matter if it's Microsoft or any other company - I hate them all the same as long as they want to control me. And this is the point really! Their business is to screw customers and my business is not to let them screw me. I pay for all those things and I will not tolerate any kind of DRM. Some DRM is forced on me and there's no way for me to counter (e.g.: GTA IV's online check), but as long as I can stop it, I will. It's not my problem that they're afraid of piracy - I buy my games. If they think they can stop it by hurting their paying customers, it's fine by me. However, I will do everything I can to minimize their control. What corporations would like the most, is people paying them for nothing, so they can fly their corporate jets and keep screwing artists who create these products. There are countless examples of this wherever we look.

 

 

I see where you were going with that but I think it's a bit off. Installing a game from a physic disc is going to be by far faster that getting it from D2D or Steam or the alike. Now if it's a small/older game that comes on a single CD and you have a 10+Mbit/sec download then it might be faster to download and install.

Oh, I think I wasn't clear enough. I have several HDDs and my games backed up. When I want to install a game, I copy the back up to my main HDD and make it install. It's much faster than installing from a DVD. The assumption is that you have the game downloaded and backed up on a SATA II HDD when you start your installation. My internet is rather slow, by the way. I guess I pull about 1 GB per hour.

 

I don't like Steam because they have too much control over my games. Direct2Drive simply gives you a digital copy of a game and it's the same as the one printed on a DVD. The difference is that it doesn't have all the DVD-related DRM like content scrambling or whatever they use these days (unless it's a Steam game anyway - like Fallout: New Vegas). Making a back up of a factory DVD is a real hassle and very unreliable. Direct2Drive lets you download at midnight on the day of release and you can often get it faster than buying a physical copy the next day, so in that respect it's the same as Steam. The only real difference is that the game does not require Steam cloud to work. I really can't understand why people would allow Valve to control their games.

Edited November 6, 2010 by OutOfTimer