bad areas

[T.S.2000]

Iwould like 2 see more areas where u have problems with the natives.4 instances in vice city who ever Tommy had beef with either the cubans or the hatians that side of town was a hot spot 4 him.(they shooting at u,pulling u out your car,ganging up on u if they had the chance)I know after i killed the DON on GTA3,i would tried 2 avoid that side of town all completely.That added a level of excitment 2 the game during and after completion.GTA4 lack that element,which all others before had.

[Akavari]

Iwould like 2 see more areas where u have problems with the natives.4 instances in vice city who ever Tommy had beef with either the cubans or the hatians that side of town was a hot spot 4 him.(they shooting at u,pulling u out your car,ganging up on u if they had the chance)I know after i killed the DON on GTA3,i would tried 2 avoid that side of town all completely.That added a level of excitment 2 the game during and after completion.GTA4 lack that element,which all others before had.

I agree. GTA III had that aspect down perfectly. After killing Salvatore I didn't drive through Saint Mark's district unless I had a deathwish because you knew you'd be swiss cheese by the time you made it out. In GTA IV, I didn't even realize there were open gang areas at all until I researched them on the internet wikis. They blend in so well with the pedestrians and are very subtle. I guess that's more realistic but I'd rather them be more confronting if you are pissing them off.

[Tyla]

I liked the subtle approach of the gangs in IV, that they didn't wander around with their guns at their sides all the time, but then again, they were so subtle that there wasn't really any sense of danger to the player at all.

If they stick to the subtle approach, they should focus on intimidation and threatening behaviour towards the player from their rivals at any point they come into contact with them or step foot inside their territory. Tailing the player in their cars, driving past them slowly if parked, attempting to provoke confrontations, etc. Situations which make the players resolve key to getting out of them. The odd phone call and shady car parked opposite the safehouses wouldn't go amiss, either.

[The Lolwut Pear]

Although I think only some gang members should attack you. I don't think every gang member knows what you look like.

[Official General]

@ T.S.2000

 

Yeah I definitely agree with what you are saying here. In GTA: Vice City, you knew you were in a real bad neighbourhood when once you step into areas like Little Haiti, Little Havana and North Point - gunfights and shoot-outs would erupt out of nowhere between rival gangs, people would get carjacked and robbed on the street and there would be fights. In some cases the gangs would shoot at you and you would get carjacked yourself. In GTA: San Andreas, you could'nt stand for even two minutes in certain areas without seeing rival street gangs either shoot at you or shoot each other.

 

The exciting element of danger in previous GTAs before GTA 4 was always there for the player to encounter and overcome, I really missed that.

 

@ Tyler

 

I too really liked that subtle approach to gangs in GTA 4, where the gang members blended in with the local crowd and they were never seen walking around with guns so openly unless there was trouble. In real-life, most gang members do not walk around in public with their guns showing. I also loved the fact that you only realised certain people in the street were gang members once you had started trouble with them, and they suddenly just pulled guns out on you and started shooting. Stuff like that was cool, because you would'nt always know where the potential danger was coming from whenever you started trouble with random people, and I found that exciting. I also liked the way Liberty City's ghettoes, projects and poor areas in GTA 4 were designed and created, they realistically looked really rough and dangerous -Rockstar got that part very right.

 

However, the part Rockstar got very wrong in GTA 4 was by NOT making Liberty City's bad and rough neighbourhoods actually FEEL dangerous. In fact, Liberty City in GTA 4 felt like one of the safest cities ever in a GTA game. The gang members and criminals on the streets very rarely, if ever got into shoot-outs or fights with each other. At most times you would never see it happen at all. You could'nt even hear gunshot sounds in the distance. If there were gonna be shoot-outs, you as the player would almost always have to start them yourself, and most times it would end up with police getting invloved. You would never see random people in the streets getting robbed, mugged or carjacked and you never see any store hold-ups or stick-ups taking place. It was even very rare to see police chasing down criminals, police car sirens, or police having shoot-outs with criminals that did not invlove you at all. You could just normally walk through even the most crime-ridden districts of Liberty City like South Bohan and the Firefly Projects in Broker over and over again, and you would never see a single bad thing happen in the streets, not even a simple brawl or fist-fight. Rockstar really needs to change this.

 

@ The Lowlut Pear

 

I too dont wanna see all gang members just shooting at the player on sight all the time. This should only happen if the player's character has some kind of long-running fued with that particular gang within the game and it should also be relevant to the game's storyline in some way. What I do wanna see in the bad areas of future GTA cities are gang members and criminals having random shoot-outs and fights in the streets with each other, that do not invlove the player at all. I also want the player to be able to independantly witness and see random street crimes committed by others, like armed robberies, stick-ups, store-hold ups, muggings, hijackings, carjackings and pickpocketing. I want that element of danger to come back again.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Official General

[The Lolwut Pear]

Yeah, I meant if you had killed someone important.

[Tyla]

What I would like to see is the effect the presence of a gang has on the neighbourhood they claim.

 

For example: If a gang is said to be pushing drugs onto the street their network of dealers should be present on the streets, standing on corners doing business, accosting the vehicles that pass through for business as they were the prostitutes trying to whore themselves. As a consequence of the new-found flow of drugs, crime would sky rocket as junkies have the need to find a means of income to get hold of their fix. This would then have an impact on the player, as they would be a potential target of being mugged or having their vehicle stolen. Anything that makes me feel as though I'm not the only one causing chaos in the grand metropolis they create.

[Little William]

I agree with all the points you guys had made. IV's LC is too safe, even in the so-called bad areas. I would like that I am not the only criminal on the streets, but other guys doing crime as well. But I don't want to see is the gang system in III where you are public enemy no. 1 on nearly every neighbourhood, getting shot and killed before you could say "WTF?".

[WhistleBlower]

If it was in a place like Carcer City, I could see Rockstar return the behavior of the "no-nonsense, kill on sight" gangs in GTA 3 to the next GTA. Like someone else said, I never really felt like I was in danger when playing GTA IV.

[san andreas state]

i liked how gta sa was

the way the gangs saw you and would threaten and badger you

they wouldnt always kill you though just knock the sh*t out of you then your homies would come and get them off of you by shooting, then the enemies wouldnt care about you

but they would just stand around you until you did something

even peds would attack occasionally

[WhistleBlower]

i liked how gta sa was

the way the gangs saw you and would threaten and badger you

they wouldnt always kill you though just knock the sh*t out of you then your homies would come and get them off of you by shooting, then the enemies wouldnt care about you

but they would just stand around you until you did something

even peds would attack occasionally

The drug dealers were a nice addition too. Even when your gang territory was at 100 percent, you would still find them throughout the city. And they would kill you if you replied to them negatively.

[Little William]

 

If it was in a place like Carcer City, I could see Rockstar return the behavior of the "no-nonsense, kill on sight" gangs in GTA 3 to the next GTA. Like someone else said, I never really felt like I was in danger when playing GTA IV.

No, I don't really like it. In III, you have beef with nearly every gang in the city after the story missions. You have great difficulty free-roaming the city without getting wasted. There should be only some gangs that really hate you like the Haitians in Little Haiti in VC, but not making every gang hates your guts.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Little William

[I haet Mudkipz]

I agree, there is SO much potential with regards to bad areas and so forth. Here's what I'm thinking.

 

Prostitutes: Same as before except if you attack them their pimp and/or any gang members in the area will attack YOU severely. They'll have anywhere between $50-200.

 

Drug Dealers: Same as in SA but more subtle and less money, like the 300-800 dollar range. If you attack them grab their money quick because he'll have heavily armed friends close by and nearby gang members will attack you with what they got.

 

Gang Members: Same as always w/ some twists. Regular ones will have knives and/or handguns like usual. Ones with sweatshirts, hoodies, or jackets you should watch out for because the might pack heavier weaponry like SMGs, Sawed-off Shotguns, and anything else one could carry under them. Ones hanging out near vehicles and houses are the most dangerous as they can have pretty much any weapon(houses and cars can hold big guns after all ).

 

Gangs Themselves: Any gang you befriend during the story will help you if being attacked by anyone else in their territory except cops. Your gang(if the protagonist has one that is) will do the above including cops. Gangs you anger during the story will not immediately attack you but will if you cause trouble or stay in their area too long. Neutral gangs will only attack if you cause trouble. Enemy gangs or gangs you really piss off during the story will attack on sight.

NOTE: Gangs will only see you on foot or if you remain in a vehicle without moving/moving slowly for too long.

 

Hobos: You have the option of giving them money. They'll sometimes be drunk/high and thus unable to fight you should you choose too.

 

Junkies: Drug addicts that will either attack you or rob you with a knife. You have the option of giving the money or fighting them off.

 

Robbery: Gangs or individuals will sometimes pull a gun on you up close and you'll freeze like when cops try to arrest you and either they take some money or you give them some, you can resist and get shot at like with the cops.

 

Pick-pocket: Peds will "touch" you and some money will disappear. You can try to get it back.

 

Gambling: People on the street will be playing Dice, Dominoes, or Cards for money outside. You can either join in or rob them with varied consequences.

 

Car-jacking: Same as before.

 

My ideas for bad areas. Keep this BUMPed.

[Pac.]

I liked the subtle approach of the gangs in IV, that they didn't wander around with their guns at their sides all the time, but then again, they were so subtle that there wasn't really any sense of danger to the player at all.

If they stick to the subtle approach, they should focus on intimidation and threatening behaviour towards the player from their rivals at any point they come into contact with them or step foot inside their territory. Tailing the player in their cars, driving past them slowly if parked, attempting to provoke confrontations, etc. Situations which make the players resolve key to getting out of them. The odd phone call and shady car parked opposite the safehouses wouldn't go amiss, either.

I like this.

 

Maybe we could put it like this, Mobsters being Mafia, Chinese whatever, should hang in groups or just be in cars or smoke or somthing, whilst outside their cafe, or their waste managment plant, but i think street gangs should intimidate more, so if you walk into their turf they try and mug you, or maybe if your wearing the wrong colour they automaticly open fire at you, this kind of thing.

[D- Ice]

 

@ Tyler

 

I too really liked that subtle approach to gangs in GTA 4, where the gang members blended in with the local crowd and they were never seen walking around with guns so openly unless there was trouble. In real-life, most gang members do not walk around in public with their guns showing. I also loved the fact that you only realised certain people in the street were gang members once you had started trouble with them, and they suddenly just pulled guns out on you and started shooting. Stuff like that was cool, because you would'nt always know where the potential danger was coming from whenever you started trouble with random people, and I found that exciting. I also liked the way Liberty City's ghettoes, projects and poor areas in GTA 4 were designed and created, they realistically looked really rough and dangerous -Rockstar got that part very right.

 

However, the part Rockstar got very wrong in GTA 4 was by NOT making Liberty City's bad and rough neighbourhoods actually FEEL dangerous. In fact, Liberty City in GTA 4 felt like one the safest cities ever in a GTA game. The gang members and criminals on the streets very rarely, if ever got into shoot-outs or fights with each other. At most times you would never see it happen at all. You could'nt even hear gunshot sounds in the distance. If there were gonna be shoot-outs, you as the player would almost always have to start them yourself, and most times it would end up with police getting invloved. You would never see random people in the streets getting robbed, mugged or carjacked and you never see any store hold-ups or stick-ups taking place. It was even very rare to see police chasing down criminals, police car sirens, or police having shoot-outs with criminals that did not invlove you at all. You could just normally walk through even the most crime-ridden districts of Liberty City like South Bohan and the Firefly Projects in Broker over and over again, and you would never see a single bad thing happen in the streets, not even a simple brawl or fist-fight. Rockstar really needs to change this.

 

QFT, I cannot have said it any better myself.

IV's LC looked spectacular, including the ghetto areas, but what completely ruined it IMo was the lack of danger.

 

After the mission Roman's Sorrow where his appartment and cab firm are torched, I seriously expected to be shot to bits as soon as I even enter that district again. Though absolutely nothing happens, and it feels no less safe than anywhere else in the city.

 

Another problem which not only ruins the atmosphere of danger, but also makes free-roam gameplay (an integral part of any GTA) boring as sh*t is the complete lack of random and interesting occurances, especially to do with crime and violence, the primary theme of the game.

 

I think both these problems could be solved, making the game more interesting, but also much more realistic by having street thugs hired by gangs try intimidating you - even if just by shouting, herassing, meleeing or pointing a pistol at you. This is probably what would happen in real life, especially if you publicly known and walk there overtly.

 

Hitmen and militants with heavy weaponry usually never guard or go on beat on the streets - the usually stay well hidden, only coming out on organised hits or to defend valuable gang fronts once attacked. This is another thing R* got completely wrong in IV, with tracksuit-wearing Eastern European and Russian street thugs on guard in the streets armed with Uzis and AK47s.

 

Another thing which never seizes to piss me off is the lack of a proper police response to anything except for what you do. On time and again in IV, hoards of cops n(some I called in) were shot down by gangsters, only for them to be totally forgotten by LCPD. If you though so much as dare to shoot a single bullet at a cop, you'll get helicopters and NOOSE officers swarming into your area from left, right and centre.

 

They should implement an idenical law-enforcement system for you and all NPCs, up to six stars. Some will argue that you will be able to easily pass missions by just calling in the cops, well that option should be there on some missions as an alternate to cheating. Other missions should be better designed so you wont get an army of AK-weilding Mafia members overtly shooting at you right across a busy main road. Maybe more indoor missions, or missions in more isolated areas where cops wont be able to come at the first gunshot.

 

Later on in the game, enemy fighters might also call reinforcements who will keep on coming/respawning just like the cops/army fighting against them. And your job is to sneak and bitterly fight your way through the two fighting factions to your objective. Fun, more tactical and much more realistic to expecting you to kill everyone single-handedly.

 

@I haet Mudkipz: Great idea. Maybe you should browse some of my Gang Classes section on my GTA idea, as I suggest the exact same in terms of different types of gangsters.

 

Maybe you can have the hoods/street gangsters who patrol some of the poor districts. Their main job is to protect their turf and drug dealers and drug dens, and will only be armed with melee weapons and pistols.

 

Gangsters guarding fronts can range from legitimate guards with night-sticks to armed gangsters to even paramilitary fighters or PMC Mercs with military-grade weapons hidden inside.

 

Then you can have hitmen (SMGs or Shotguns), Assassins (snipers, poison, bomb vests etc...) and death squads (4 men armed with military-grade weapons) who can be sent after you to anywhere in the city once your heat with a particular criminal (or maybe even corrupt law enforcement) becomes high enough.

Edited October 28, 2010 by D- Ice

[visionist]

Great idea. Maybe you should browse some of my Gang Classes section on my GTA idea, as I suggest the exact same in terms of different typoes of gangsters.

Im interested in gang related threads could you post us all a link- the site search has been dead for ages.

 

Loads of Top End ideas here well done everyone

[Tyla]

Just watched "Falling Down", starring Michael Douglas and Robert Duvall. If you haven't seen the movie before, it's about a man (Douglas) who has a breakdown whilst sitting in traffic and decides he's going to go home - on foot - and to do this he has to walk across Los Angeles.

 

A couple of Mexican hoods spot him on his walk and decide they want his briefcase as a tax for stepping in their turf; one of them pulls a knife on him and eventually Douglas' character loses it and does the two of them with a bat. Later on these same guys are out hunting for him with their crew driving around the neighbourhood when they spot him and attempt to murder him in a drive-by. They hit everyone but him and the hoods crash their car and the lot of them end up dead.

 

I was just thinking how cool it would be to have this sort of interaction with your environment in the next GTA. Especially in "bad areas". At one point on his walk he ends up walking through a playground and there's a bunch of homeless persons and panhandlers, all with stuff tied to them saying things like "Will work for food" & "Have AIDS give me money". One of them even goes up to him, like the hobos do in IV and starts to accost him until Douglas' gives him his briefcase.

 

If you haven't seen the movie, look it up on youtube. You'll see what I mean.

[D- Ice]

Great idea. Maybe you should browse some of my Gang Classes section on my GTA idea, as I suggest the exact same in terms of different typoes of gangsters.

Im interested in gang related threads could you post us all a link- the site search has been dead for ages.

 

Loads of Top End ideas here well done everyone

No prob mate, nice to see someone interested in the same thing. Just a word of warning, it'll probably involve some heavy reading, but I'm sure you'll find it interesting. There are two seperate posts which cover it.

 

Criminal Elements 1.

 

Criminal Elements 2.

 

Let me know what you think mate.

 

 

[Official General]

@ D-Ice

 

I like your set of ideas relating to gangsters in the streets, top stuff !

[xxcyylonexx]

i agree with most of all your ideas. i mean, gta5 has so much potential. just look at this. thats just amazing. " Overall, Grand Theft Auto IV took over 1000 people and more than three and a half years to complete, with a total cost estimated at approximately $100 million, making it the most expensive game ever developed."

[.Ryan.]

I think GTA V/Next should be more dangerous, but at the same time it should be alot like GTA IV where the gangs tend to blend in.

 

I remember GTA III after the game had finished. It was annoying just trying to explore the city with gangs always coming after you.

 

GTA IV was so much better, because of the fact you didn't know who was a gang member, and who wasn't. Well half the time anyway. There are people who still think GTA IV doesn't have gangs out of the story even though GTA IV has probably the largest amount of gangs in the entire series. They just tend to blend in with regular peds alot more.

 

In GTA IV there isn't a general sense of immediate danger, but if you come across a gang member just walking around 9 times out of 10 they'll trash talk to you, and eventually they attack. I think this is so much more realistic than the old games where gang members would open fire on you even if you were in a speeding car going through their turf. Like how the hell do they know who you are?

 

Anyway I think crime in itself needs a revamp. Most of the crime in GTA has always come from you, or other gangs. There needs to be more random crime in general. Remember in GTA IV there was a serial killer lurking around Liberty City? There should be something like that in GTA V/Next where sometimes you might actually witness someone being murdered, but more often you would come across the aftermath of a murder.

 

Then the police come, CSI etc, and they roped the area off, or whatever else happens during a murder scene investigation. Obviously this would be un-necessary for random killings, but this should be implemented if there's another serial killer.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Miamivicecity

[Linki]

I think GTA V/Next should be more dangerous, but at the same time it should be alot like GTA IV where the gangs tend to blend in.

 

I remember GTA III after the game had finished. It was annoying just trying to explore the city with gangs always coming after you.

 

GTA IV was so much better, because of the fact you didn't know who was a gang member, and who wasn't. Well half the time anyway. There are people who still think GTA IV doesn't have gangs out of the story even though GTA IV has probably the largest amount of gangs in the entire series. They just tend to blend in with regular peds alot more.

 

In GTA IV there isn't a general sense of immediate danger, but if you come across a gang member just walking around 9 times out of 10 they'll trash talk to you, and eventually they attack. I think this is so much more realistic than the old games where gang members would open fire on you even if you were in a speeding car going through their turf. Like how the hell do they know who you are?

 

Anyway I think crime in itself needs a revamp. Most of the crime in GTA has always come from you, or other gangs. There needs to be more random crime in general. Remember in GTA IV there was a serial killer lurking around Liberty City? There should be something like that in GTA V/Next where sometimes you might actually witness someone being murdered, but more often you would come across the aftermath of a murder.

 

Then the police come, CSI etc, and they roped the area off, or whatever else happens during a murder scene investigation. Obviously this would be un-necessary for random killings, but this should be implemented if there's another serial killer.

Indeed.

 

I have a feeling the next GTA will have a lot more gang related gameplay, so it will probably expand upon this.

[Racecarlock]

@ Tyler

 

I too really liked that subtle approach to gangs in GTA 4, where the gang members blended in with the local crowd and they were never seen walking around with guns so openly unless there was trouble. In real-life, most gang members do not walk around in public with their guns showing. I also loved the fact that you only realised certain people in the street were gang members once you had started trouble with them, and they suddenly just pulled guns out on you and started shooting. Stuff like that was cool, because you would'nt always know where the potential danger was coming from whenever you started trouble with random people, and I found that exciting. I also liked the way Liberty City's ghettoes, projects and poor areas in GTA 4 were designed and created, they realistically looked really rough and dangerous -Rockstar got that part very right.

 

However, the part Rockstar got very wrong in GTA 4 was by NOT making Liberty City's bad and rough neighbourhoods actually FEEL dangerous. In fact, Liberty City in GTA 4 felt like one the safest cities ever in a GTA game. The gang members and criminals on the streets very rarely, if ever got into shoot-outs or fights with each other. At most times you would never see it happen at all. You could'nt even hear gunshot sounds in the distance. If there were gonna be shoot-outs, you as the player would almost always have to start them yourself, and most times it would end up with police getting invloved. You would never see random people in the streets getting robbed, mugged or carjacked and you never see any store hold-ups or stick-ups taking place. It was even very rare to see police chasing down criminals, police car sirens, or police having shoot-outs with criminals that did not invlove you at all. You could just normally walk through even the most crime-ridden districts of Liberty City like South Bohan and the Firefly Projects in Broker over and over again, and you would never see a single bad thing happen in the streets, not even a simple brawl or fist-fight. Rockstar really needs to change this.

 

QFT, I cannot have said it any better myself.

IV's LC looked spectacular, including the ghetto areas, but what completely ruined it IMo was the lack of danger.

 

After the mission Roman's Sorrow where his appartment and cab firm are torched, I seriously expected to be shot to bits as soon as I even enter that district again. Though absolutely nothing happens, and it feels no less safe than anywhere else in the city.

 

Another problem which not only ruins the atmosphere of danger, but also makes free-roam gameplay (an integral part of any GTA) boring as sh*t is the complete lack of random and interesting occurances, especially to do with crime and violence, the primary theme of the game.

 

I think both these problems could be solved, making the game more interesting, but also much more realistic by having street thugs hired by gangs try intimidating you - even if just by shouting, herassing, meleeing or pointing a pistol at you. This is probably what would happen in real life, especially if you publicly known and walk there overtly.

 

Hitmen and militants with heavy weaponry usually never guard or go on beat on the streets - the usually stay well hidden, only coming out on organised hits or to defend valuable gang fronts once attacked. This is another thing R* got completely wrong in IV, with tracksuit-wearing Eastern European and Russian street thugs on guard in the streets armed with Uzis and AK47s.

 

Another thing which never seizes to piss me off is the lack of a proper police response to anything except for what you do. On time and again in IV, hoards of cops n(some I called in) were shot down by gangsters, only for them to be totally forgotten by LCPD. If you though so much as dare to shoot a single bullet at a cop, you'll get helicopters and NOOSE officers swarming into your area from left, right and centre.

 

They should implement an idenical law-enforcement system for you and all NPCs, up to six stars. Some will argue that you will be able to easily pass missions by just calling in the cops, well that option should be there on some missions as an alternate to cheating. Other missions should be better designed so you wont get an army of AK-weilding Mafia members overtly shooting at you right across a busy main road. Maybe more indoor missions, or missions in more isolated areas where cops wont be able to come at the first gunshot.

 

Later on in the game, enemy fighters might also call reinforcements who will keep on coming/respawning just like the cops/army fighting against them. And your job is to sneak and bitterly fight your way through the two fighting factions to your objective. Fun, more tactical and much more realistic to expecting you to kill everyone single-handedly.

 

@I haet Mudkipz: Great idea. Maybe you should browse some of my Gang Classes section on my GTA idea, as I suggest the exact same in terms of different types of gangsters.

 

Maybe you can have the hoods/street gangsters who patrol some of the poor districts. Their main job is to protect their turf and drug dealers and drug dens, and will only be armed with melee weapons and pistols.

 

Gangsters guarding fronts can range from legitimate guards with night-sticks to armed gangsters to even paramilitary fighters or PMC Mercs with military-grade weapons hidden inside.

 

Then you can have hitmen (SMGs or Shotguns), Assassins (snipers, poison, bomb vests etc...) and death squads (4 men armed with military-grade weapons) who can be sent after you to anywhere in the city once your heat with a particular criminal (or maybe even corrupt law enforcement) becomes high enough.

I will vouch for this, provided that when I do get richer, I am also able to hire hitmen and PMC bodyguards, otherwise it won't be fair. Also, the hitmen could substitute for bodyguards. We could probably use the internet to hire said bodyguards, that way the internet will have another use. Having said that, I also don't want gangs overreacting to stuff like say, I accidentally dent a gang car and they go out of their way to SHOOT ME WITH UZIS. This has happened alot in IV.

[AceRay]

what about Dwayne?

[Official General]

 

In GTA IV there isn't a general sense of immediate danger, but if you come across a gang member just walking around 9 times out of 10 they'll trash talk to you, and eventually they attack. I think this is so much more realistic than the old games where gang members would open fire on you even if you were in a speeding car going through their turf. Like how the hell do they know who you are?

 

Anyway I think crime in itself needs a revamp. Most of the crime in GTA has always come from you, or other gangs.

@ Miamivicecity

 

I have to correct you on a couple of things you stated in your last comment.

 

In GTA 4, the gang members do not just attack you if you simply happen to come across them walking around. You actually have to start some kind of trouble with a gang member first before they actually attack you, or pull out guns and shoot at you. This ONLY happens when you:

 

* Point a gun at a gang member or shoot at a gang member.

 

* Fire a gun in a gang member's territory

 

* Push or shove a gang member

 

* Hit or strike a gang member with a melee weapon, a vehicle, or hands and feet.

 

* (This only happens sometimes) Damage a gang member's vehicle using your own vehicle or by some other means.

 

9.9 times out of 10, using the methods described above was the only way you would see gang members actually pull out their guns use them in GTA 4. And 9.9 times out of ten, they would use their guns on YOU only, the player. The only other people gang members would shoot at were the police, and that was only once they had arrived. Now that is not very realistic to me. Why should the player always have to start trouble on their own to see a gunfight in a rough area of the city in GTA 4 ? That is not realistic. What would be realistic in GTA 4 is the player minding his own business and walking through the Firefly Projects in Broker, or walking through a deprived, rough street in South Bohan and seeing a bunch of rival gang members or drug dealers shooting at each other during a gunfight, or having a mass brawl and punch-up. To me that is realistic, something I almost never saw in GTA 4. To some extent this was seen in the previous GTA games and done very well, something which I really liked and missed. That missing element of danger made Liberty City's ghettoes feel as safe as a small, remote New England town somewhere in Maine.

 

The gang members never committed any crimes without any interference from the player, I never saw it happen. We can both definitely agree that gang crime and crime in general needs a revamp.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Official General

[.Ryan.]

Hmmm.

 

I remember once along time ago when I still had my PS3 version I was in Little Italy, and I didn't provoke the mafia in any sort of way. Pushing, shoving etc. Yet after a few seconds of trash talking they started to attack me. One stage I had about 4 of them jump me. Ok they didn't pull out their weapons, but that was just one example that not all the gangs need to be provoked to start a fight.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point about gangs just attacking the player, because this isn't exclusive to GTA IV. In all the years I've been playing GTA to me there's only 2 sorts of people gang members will attack beside the player.

 

1) Gang members from opposing gangs.

2) Authority figures.

 

I NEVER see random peds being attacked EVER!!!! So while I understand the point you're trying to make please note GTA IV isn't the only GTA that suffers in this area. If R* are aiming for more realism then randpm peds need to be attacked too, because that happens in real life.

 

Yes I agree about gangs attacking other gangs that was far, and few between in GTA IV. It was cool in the old GTAs sitting back, and watching rival gangs duke it out. This was definitely missing in GTA IV.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Miamivicecity

[AceRay]

maybe there should be an area of 'bad animals' like snakes and bears and stuff.

[Official General]

 

Hmmm.

 

I remember once along time ago when I still had my PS3 version I was in Little Italy, and I didn't provoke the mafia in any sort of way. Pushing, shoving etc. Yet after a few seconds of trash talking they started to attack me. One stage I had about 4 of them jump me. Ok they didn't pull out their weapons, but that was just one example that not all the gangs need to be provoked to start a fight.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point about gangs just attacking the player, because this isn't exclusive to GTA IV. In all the years I've been playing GTA to me there's only 2 sorts of people gang members will attack beside the player.

 

1) Gang members from opposing gangs.

2) Authority figures.

 

I NEVER see random peds being attacked EVER!!!! So while I understand the point you're trying to make please note GTA IV isn't the only GTA that suffers in this area. If R* are aiming for more realism then randpm peds need to be attacked too, because that happens in real life.

 

Yes I agree about gangs attacking other gangs that was far, and few between in GTA IV. It was cool in the old GTAs sitting back, and watching rival gangs duke it out. This was definitely missing in GTA IV.

@ Miamivicecity

 

I have never experienced any gang member randomly start trouble with me in the streets in GTA 4, and I used to roam the streets a lot just trying to see if anything like that would happen, trust me I did. Your Little Italy incident, I cannot explain, but even so, it would be a very, very rare occurence if it does happen in the game. As far as random street crimes and uprovoked attacks on the player go, I've had just two experiences in GTA 4:

 

* Very early in the game, I was driving in central Broker and I witnessed a shoot-out between what looked like a club doorman/bodyguard dressed in black and an M.O.B. gang member.

 

* After Roman's apartment and taxicab business is burned and destroyed, I was getting in my car and preparing to drive Roman away to the safehouse in South Bohan, when all of a sudden a bunch of Russian gangsters just pulled up in black cars, got out and just started shooting at us. I shot shot back at them and there was this real, intense gunfight right in the middle of street near the Navy Yard.

 

After that, I did not experience anything like that in GTA 4 that was not provoked by myself as the player, that was it. I really enjoyed those two moments, I really wished GTA 4 had a great deal more of stuff like this. In previous GTAs, gang members would sometimes attack other kinds of peds if you stayed in certain areas long enough to see it happen. It was not much, but you would see it sometimes. For example in Vice City, if you go to the North Point area you will see gang members hanging out in the streets along with drug addicts, hobos, plus many other ordinary street criminals like robbers, muggers and carjackers. Sometimes the drug addicts and hobos randomly start fights and punch-ups with anybody, and sometimes it is with the gang members, and the gang members end up shooting them. Sometimes the street robbers/muggers and carjackers will also target gang members by mistake and end up getting shot too. Some ordinary peds sometimes just start fights with anyone anyway, including gang members and guess what happens ? - they get shot. I've seen all of this happen many times in Vice City.

 

Also in certain areas of Vice City, I've seen ordinary civilian peds get beaten up in the street by drug addicts, hobos and troublemakers, and I've also seen civilian peds get robbed and carjacked. You really have to stick around certain places to notice it happen.

 

But as we both stated and agreed on already, Rockstar needs to greatly improve on random street crime in general, with both the ordinary criminals and gang members.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Official General

[Pac.]

D-ice's topic would be a top notch feature in the next game

[D- Ice]

@ Official General and Pac.: Thanks guys, really glad you like my ideas. I realise they are usually very word-heavy, so thanks again for reading them.

 

@ Racecarlock: Thanks mate. Yes, I have written somewhere in my thread (lol sorry it's so long-winded) that whatever gangs can do, you too are also able to do towards the end of the game when you start your own criminal organisation. Somewhat similar to games like The Godfather II, but probably a bit more complex in that you get more criminal elements/specialists. Infact, if you check out my Bodyguards Section, towards the end of the game you should be encouraged not to venture out anywhere without a posse of highly-trained, armed guards due to the danger you'll be in from rival criminal syndicates.

Maybe throughout the game, you can work as an Associate/freelance Street Thug, Hitman, Bodyguard etc... Once you perfect all these specialities and gain enough respect, you will be trained in actually running the gang and accepted as a Made-Man. Later you'll be able to start your own gang.

 

@ Miamivicecity: Very true, I also really loved just how well gang members blended into the general populace. Even after slowly finishing the game, smelling the roses and noticing each type of gangster, I still; have trouble distinguishing whose a gangster and who isn't. Randomly too, many of the "gangsters" are completely unarmed and have normal ped programming!

 

I think this should definatelt return, but maybe take it one step further. Like in my idea in those links I posted earlier, rather than having one set of gangster skins that corresponds with a criminal syndicate/organisation, they should have gangster/criminal skins represent different criminal elements.

 

What that means is that rather than having one set of skins for the Russian Mob, another for the Italian Mafia and another for the Yardies, there should be a generic skin for Street Thugs, another for Hitmen and another for Private Detectives. These criminal elements are used by each different criminal organisation, so a Hitman sent to whack you or a Detective to tail you will generally look exactly the same regardless of whether it was the Mafia or Colombians who sent them. So this will again increase the feeling of danger and uncertainty in the game - you will have to pay someone or do someone favours in side-quests to get the intel you need as to who sent them.

 

The actual made-men or prople who run the various criminal organisations though would themselves be stylised depending on the different gangs - Mafia will be Italians wearing suites while Triads members will be Chinese wearing suites or traditional clothes. Some who give missions and will be specially designed characters as opposed to generic NPCs. Though they will hire freelance Bodyguards, Hitmen etc... from across the board.