FUN FUN FUN

[cosmicboy]

I'd like to start a topic of reason behind some of the comments repeatedly seen on this website and others to do with the so called "fun" factor in Gta IV, the new era in the Gta series.

 

Gta IV to me is an absolute masterpiece, beyond anything I'd imagined it could be. The sheer detail and levels of perfection that went into it is truly astounding. One of the points im trying to grasp in this topic is the so called lack of "fun" some people have interpreted with IV in comparison with say SA and some with even Saints Row. The fact that some people state IV should have been done like TBOGT, aka more weapons, skydiving, N.O.O.S.E tank etc. from the very beginning.

 

I don't think alot of these people see the big picture in what Rockstar are trying to achieve. They are saving us from our own destruction in a way and truly keeping the Gta series alive, not a chance in hell would they risk destroying it or its reputation.

 

What im trying to say is im glad IV did not have planes, im glad we didn't get parachutes in the beginning, im glad the cars were not customizable and im glad we didn't get flame throwers, guns and extra features galore. I love all of these things, I don't hate anything that's been put in previous Gta's and even if I did, I would just choose not to use or pursue them.

 

If Gta IV had all of those things that people think Rockstar were too stupid or technically challenged to put into Gta IV you are very very mistaken. If Gta IV had planes, customisation and all of those other things people miss that were introduced later on in the III era, then I ask you what would you have to look forward to in the future. What would V be if we received all of those extra fun luxury's which some of us very much enjoyed from VC and SA.

 

What IV did to SA and VICE, is what III did to the original Gta's if any of you have played them. It gave is a brand new world with a vision in which before hand we could only dream of. III didn't have it all, but what it did have I guarantee you would never turn back on the previous Gta's. What III gave compared to previous instalments was life, it gave us 3d, but everything else was not so different when you think about it. The fact that it was so much more "fun" was the work that went into transferring it into a 3d environment, thus Rockstar creating an absolute milestone in gaming. Remember how fun it was just because it was in 3d?? Remember how fun it was running over people reaking havoc and jacking people out of cars just because it was 3d?? It was fresh, a masterpiece just for that reason alone, then Rockstar tickled us with every release afterwards with giving us basically more of everything more to do within the environments.

 

What exactly could Rockstar do to get this feeling back again?? They pumped even more life into the next instalment, breathtaking weather, the best overall physics in any game of its proportion, breathing people with movement and seemingly real lives, endless and every time unique car damage, landscape detail in everywhere you look, a new more appropriate wanted system that you could escape from visually and methodically, superior voice acting and scripting, realistic explosions and particle effects, true depth. The previous Gta's now seem 2d to IV as did III to the original. They opened up a new world for us which you know well they will expand on and give us all the extra sh*t that will only be FUN because you didn't see them in this instalment, because it would of overcrowded the real reason and concept that is Gta IV, the new beginning. BUT with the basic mechanics barely changed, in Gta 1, Gta III and even IV, the basis of Gta. To introduce you to this era and teach you about how it works. "You do this to get this and you can also do all of this", it teaches you how to play the game for the future releases also. From then on your set and ready to continue that era and it gets so much more fun to know how to play and not be as babysitted for the next instalments, because you have grasped its mechanics and what it has to offer.

 

It is hard for people to see what is obvious to some of why IV was such a perfect title, it has advanced immensely. The fun is there and it has always been there, except now when you run over people they ragdoll all over the place and interact amazingly with their environment, the driving is more technical as it should be, you wouldn't want your granny to be able to pick it it up in 5mins would you?? Thats where the gameplay and experience comes in. I have some friends who were not impressed by Gta IV, and I know exactly why, they instantly dismissed it because they couldn't play it well on the spot. I had a friend who bought Gta IV ages ago and only played it a couple of times because he couldn't have instant fun with it, today I showed him how I play and from experience and embracing all that IV is he was truly amazed and blown away that he never even seen the possibiltys until I showed him. Because he never sat down and learned how to play the f*cking thing. Ive had more fun with this Gta then any of the other instalments, and every player who has embraced it as much as I have you can visually see their style and strengths on-screen because of the vastness of its technicality and varied unique instances.

 

Gta IV was in no way shape or form a mistake on Rockstars part for features. It is genius, the suspense they create for the next instalments only add to it. The funny thing is all the numpties will say, "see now Rockstar have done it right, they should have done it this way all along" without taking into consideration that without IV there is no V, the same way if there was no III, there would have been no VC and no SA. The appreciation and embracement of each stepping stone is where the true value lies. When the next era starts, I hope they take away all the silly easy stuff again, and focus on what truly makes a brilliant game a masterpiece.

 

Anybody can make planes and flamethrowers, just look at Saints Row, not everybody can make GTA IV, in fact no-one can except Rockstar.

 

Take a good look at IV for anybody that doubted it, IV kicks the living f*ck out of III SA and VICE which are all basically III minus a few models and simple features. IV, V, and maybe even VI are gonna blow your frieken mind, that is if you actually learn how to play the f*cking thing .

 

You'll get your VC, and your frieken SA, explore the new III bitches.

 

Booyeh!!

 

The answers in the taxi motherf*ckers.

Edited October 5, 2010 by cosmicboy

[foohy]

Cool story, bro.

[cactus.]

I agree with you that IV was a complete masterpiece. It's understandable that they omitted a lot of amenities and features from the previous gtas because it simply added more focus onto the main improvements that were there (the game engine itself, the physics, and more importantly, the more meaningful story and deeper characters)

 

But I'll admit that I miss a lot of stuff from San Andreas. This is mainly because I never got to play SA (i graduated from college at the time it came out and then I moved to Europe, where I didn't even have a TV for several years). So I only get to watch youtube clips of people flying planes, modding their car, gambling in casinos, driving next the edge of cliffs, around loopdy-loops. I think these things look pretty damn fun, and can only dream of R* throwing these features back into the mix when the next GTA is released.

[cosmicboy]

 

I can only dream of R* throwing these features back into the mix when the next GTA is released.

Exactly my point.

 

Is that not a good thing??

Edited October 5, 2010 by cosmicboy

[Brown Sugar]

hopefully the next gta will be as good as iv and beyond, gta iv was a great game in terms of gameplay and detail, now all that's left is to add the extra things that everyone wants and that are easy to do, if R* can do that, which they can, then the next gta should be the best game ever made

[QwertyAAA]

Put their fingers in the socket and watch them fry -

Taxi drivers must die!

[Linki]

Brilliant post, I agree completely.

[cosmicboy]

Put their fingers in the socket and watch them fry -

Taxi drivers must die!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzySKDuPu9I

[TommyMufc-Champs]

Nice post I think there should be both.

[Toup]

Good! Thanks for explaining this.

[Phantomkick]

Best post, ever...

[mrpain]

Best post, ever...

Oh please, OP just stated some recycled facts that others have stated in the past few months of GTA having the fun factor.

 

I may sound like a douche, but yeah nice work of you taking the time to write that.

[Official General]

@ Cosmicboy - Some interesting points you have made here, but......

 

 

I disagree with your OP for most part. My idea of the 'fun' that was missing in GTA 4 was NOT about jetpacks, planes, parachutes, flamethrowers, remote control devices, special containers of green goo - none of that over-the-top and wacky stuff. I really do not care about that stuff and I too was not bothered about them missing in GTA 4. I was very happy with the realistic, story-driven approach to GTA 4. It was the more 'realistic stuff' that would have been great fun that Rockstar left out of GTA 4, which led to the game's major criticisms and thats the way I see it.

 

I'm sorry but Rockstar have no real excuses for this. They had a lot of advanced console technology at their disposal, we are talking about the PS3 and the 360 here. But yet, they still could not include the most simple, straightforward and realistic features that would have been fun to play in GTA 4. I and many others on here have discussed and mentioned these 'missing things' and what they are many times. Now, if you wanna see what 'missing things' I'm talking about please refer to my first comment on the GTA V list and it is the forum titled, "Realism in games and GTA specifically" by K^2. You should know them by now anyway, its been discussed many times on here before. Rockstar could have and should done much more and added more things to make GTA 4 a much better and fun game overall. These extra things I'm talking about did not have to be crazy, fun and over-the-top stuff like in San Andreas or Saints Row 2. They could been a much greater variety of more believable and 'real' missions and side activities that were actually fun and interesting to do in GTA 4, rather than just the very repetitive kill, kill, kill missions. GTA 4 was 90% hitman-style "go here and go there and kill that guy", plus the occasional showdown with a bunch of gangsters that ended up in big shoot-outs in various open locations. And that is pretty much all GTA 4 was, regardless of its interesting storyline. To me, for a game that is as polished-looking and visually stunning as GTA 4 made by Rockstar (one of the best in the business), it is a big disappointment.

 

I still very much enjoyed playing GTA 4, I still own my PS3 copy and I had some memorable experiences playing it. But the fact remains that GTA 4 definitely could have and should have been much better than it is and I'm sorry, but Rockstar have no real excuse for this being the case.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Official General

[cosmicboy]

 

@ Cosmicboy - Some interesting points you have made here, but......

 

 

I disagree with your OP for most part. My idea of the 'fun' that was missing in GTA 4 was NOT about jetpacks, planes, parachutes, flamethrowers, remote control devices, special containers of green goo  - none of that over-the-top and wacky stuff. I really do not care about that stuff and I too was not bothered about them missing in GTA 4. I was very happy with the realistic, story-driven approach to GTA 4. It was the more 'realistic stuff' that would have been great fun that Rockstar left out of GTA 4, which led to the game's major criticisms and thats the way I see it.

 

I'm sorry but Rockstar have no real excuses for this. They had a lot of advanced console technology at their disposal, we are talking about the PS3 and the 360 here. But yet, they still could not include the most simple, straightforward and realistic features that would have been fun to play in GTA 4. I and many others on here have discussed and mentioned these 'missing things' and what they are many times. Now, if you wanna see what 'missing things' I'm talking about please refer to my first comment on the GTA V list and it is the forum titled, "Realism in games and GTA specifically" by K^2. You should know them by now anyway, its been discussed many times on here before. Rockstar could have and should done much more and added more things to make GTA 4 a much better and fun game overall. These extra things I'm talking about did not have to be crazy, fun and over-the-top stuff like in San Andreas or Saints Row 2. They could been a much greater variety of more believable and 'real' missions and side activities that were actually fun and interesting to do in GTA 4, rather than just the very repetitive kill, kill, kill missions. GTA 4 was 90% hitman-style "go here and go there and kill that guy", plus the occasional showdown with a bunch of gangsters that ended up in big shoot-outs in various open locations. And that is pretty much all GTA 4 was, regardless of its interesting storyline. To me, for a game that is as polished-looking and visually stunning as GTA 4 made by Rockstar (one of the best in the business), it is a big disappointment.

 

I still very much enjoyed playing GTA 4, I still own my PS3 copy and I had some memorable experiences playing it. But the fact remains that GTA 4 definitely could have and should have been much better than it is and I'm sorry, but Rockstar have no real excuse for this being the case.

I think you are missing the point.

 

Gta is a game, like any game it has a price and a certain amount of longevity, I personally feel people let themselves down with IV rather then Rockstar. My opinion is that what made gta so great in the first place certain people got bored of with IV. When I speak of planes jet packs etc, I'm sorry I also meant everything that was also added after III in general. We were kept fully occupied when III came out and it did not have all of the extras you speak of in your other post. Nobody robbed shops, you couldn't recruit gangs, you couldn't buy and sell drugs on the side or rob banks etc. What was there was a new era and new life altogether in itself.

 

Now I honestly don't feel that anybody on here or anywhere truly felt robbed with gta, was it not worth it? How long did you play it compared to other games?? Forgetting all other gta's was it not a great game? Forget what you know of gta up until now and get down to the core of it. I have a friend who's teenage son started playing gta at gtaIV, he never played any previous whatsoever they were before his generation, his first console is a xbox. It is his favourite game ever, he absolutely loves it, he thinks all other games are flimsy in comparison.

 

Now because he loved it I presumed he might like the previous generation games, especially when I told him about all the extra stuff and features he seemed excited. I loaned him my ps2 and the games, a few days later I asked what he thought? He was back playing IV, he said III VC and SA all played like sh*t, you can't do this or that, this one you can't swim, all the cars are sh*t, that one just looks crap, and so on. He didn't give a sh*t about the extra things to do because it was like playing in a time machine. Because he truly seen IV as a fresh title he is not comparing what he thought he felt previous.

 

You are used to gta and you are tired of what was great about it all along, cop chases, better missions as the game goes on, guns, freedom, cars, cities, helicopters, funny crazy random sh*t everything that made it entertaining in the first place you are sick of... I am not, I still love all of this sh*t, and to see it all in the new IV dimension?? Even better, a imense title for the work in the time it took, the content that's in it, if you were willing to pay double the price for a gtaIV with all the extras you speak of then so be it rockstar would have done it, but to give you all that and what they did with IV?? I think we got enough, until V comes out, just be patient, it's all gonna be there.

Edited October 6, 2010 by cosmicboy

[Zee]

"We'll get our vice we'll get our SA" You sure about that bro? All I seen R* announce is GTA4 repackaged so you can buy it yet AGAIN

 

edit: also you write like a retard, get some paragraph spaces in there for gods sake.

[Official General]

 

@ Cosmicboy - Some interesting points you have made here, but......

 

 

I disagree with your OP for most part. My idea of the 'fun' that was missing in GTA 4 was NOT about jetpacks, planes, parachutes, flamethrowers, remote control devices, special containers of green goo  - none of that over-the-top and wacky stuff. I really do not care about that stuff and I too was not bothered about them missing in GTA 4. I was very happy with the realistic, story-driven approach to GTA 4. It was the more 'realistic stuff' that would have been great fun that Rockstar left out of GTA 4, which led to the game's major criticisms and thats the way I see it.

 

I'm sorry but Rockstar have no real excuses for this. They had a lot of advanced console technology at their disposal, we are talking about the PS3 and the 360 here. But yet, they still could not include the most simple, straightforward and realistic features that would have been fun to play in GTA 4. I and many others on here have discussed and mentioned these 'missing things' and what they are many times. Now, if you wanna see what 'missing things' I'm talking about please refer to my first comment on the GTA V list and it is the forum titled, "Realism in games and GTA specifically" by K^2. You should know them by now anyway, its been discussed many times on here before. Rockstar could have and should done much more and added more things to make GTA 4 a much better and fun game overall. These extra things I'm talking about did not have to be crazy, fun and over-the-top stuff like in San Andreas or Saints Row 2. They could been a much greater variety of more believable and 'real' missions and side activities that were actually fun and interesting to do in GTA 4, rather than just the very repetitive kill, kill, kill missions. GTA 4 was 90% hitman-style "go here and go there and kill that guy", plus the occasional showdown with a bunch of gangsters that ended up in big shoot-outs in various open locations. And that is pretty much all GTA 4 was, regardless of its interesting storyline. To me, for a game that is as polished-looking and visually stunning as GTA 4 made by Rockstar (one of the best in the business), it is a big disappointment.

 

I still very much enjoyed playing GTA 4, I still own my PS3 copy and I had some memorable experiences playing it. But the fact remains that GTA 4 definitely could have and should have been much better than it is and I'm sorry, but Rockstar have no real excuse for this being the case.

I think you are missing the point.

 

Gta is a game, like any game it has a price and a certain amount of longevity, I personally feel people let themselves down with IV rather then Rockstar. My opinion is that what made gta so great in the first place certain people got bored of with IV. When I speak of planes jet packs etc, I'm sorry I also meant everything that was also added after III in general. We were kept fully occupied when III came out and it did not have all of the extras you speak of in your other post. Nobody robbed shops, you couldn't recruit gangs, you couldn't buy and sell drugs on the side or rob banks etc. What was there was a new era and new life altogether in itself. Now I honestly don't feel that anybody on here or anywhere truly felt robbed with gta, was it not worth it? How long did you play it compared to other games?? Forgetting all other gta's was it not a great game? Forget what you know of gta up until now and get down to the core of it. I have a friend who's teenage son started playing gta at gtaIV, he never played any previous whatsoever they were before his generation, his first console is a xbox. It is his favourite game ever, he absolutely loves it, he thinks all other games are flimsy in comparison. Now because he loved it I presumed he might like the previous generation games, especially when I told him about all the extra stuff and features he seemed excited. I loaned him my ps2 and the games, a few days later I asked what he thought? He was back playing IV, he said III VC and SA all played like sh*t, you can't do this or that, this one you can't swim, all the cars are sh*t, that one just looks crap, and so on. He didn't give a sh*t about the extra things to do because it was like playing in a time machine. Because he truly seen IV as a fresh title he is not comparing what he thought he felt previous. You are used to gta and you are tired of what was great about it all along, cop chases, better missions as the game goes on, guns, freedom, cars, cities, helicopters, funny crazy random sh*t everything that made it entertaining in the first place you are sick of... I am not, I still love all of this sh*t, and to see it all in the new IV dimension?? Even better, a imense title for the work in the time it took, the content that's in it, if you were willing to pay double the price for a gtaIV with all the extras you speak of then so be it rockstar would have done it, but to give you all that and what they did with IV?? I think we got enough, until V comes out, just be patient, it's all gonna be there.

@ Comsicboy

 

Sorry to sound like I'm striking back at you, but I am not missing the point. I know exactly what you were getting at. But I'm still sticking to my view and I still disagree with what you are saying and I'll explain why.

 

GTA 4 is an entirely different case to GTA 3. OK point taken, yeah I understand that robbing stores/banks, buying/selling drugs, recruiting gangs, buying/owning properties and businesses and other varied activities did not exist in GTA 3. Yet GTA 3 went on to become an amazing, groundbreaking game and it became extremely popular worldwide almost overnight. The reason for this ? It is simple. GTA 3 was the first game of it's kind - a crime simulation and action game with a 3D, open-world and free-roaming city environment. We were still soaking up the amazement and joy of playing this kind of game for the very first time. Because of this factor, many of us GTA fans overlooked many of the flaws and did not really notice the sheer amount missing things and features that could and should have been included in GTA 3. And even when we did notice this, it were not so serious because back then GTA 3 was a whole new amazing experience for us, so therefore it could get away with its flaws and shortcomings, even for absurd things like not having motorcycles! We were more forgiving back then because it was our first experience with a 3d GTA game and we were blown away already by Rockstar's hard work in revolutionizing the genre. So in my view, you cannot compare the case of GTA 3 to that of GTA 4.

 

Plus, your friend's teenage son obviously would not be able to appreciate the previous GTAs before GTA 4 as he is clearly part of a different gamng generation that is more recent. He will not be able to see it like how me and other older GTA fans can. He can most certainly be excused for not liking Vice City or San Andreas, in contrast to his sharp preference for GTA 4.

 

Later on in GTA: Vice City and San Andreas we were given most of these missing features and content that I've been talking about. And with GTA 4 finally being a very, real representation of New York City, the stage was set for 'ultimate GTA game'. Everybody loved Vice City and San Andreas, but the reality was everybody wanted to see a GTA that had the content and qualities of those two games but based on a very realistic New York-style Liberty City. New York City was the most favoured location for GTA, ask anyone. GTA 3's Liberty City was not quite a very real or accurate re-creation of New York City. GTA 4's Liberty City was indeed the most realistic, accurate and visually stunning depiction of New York City ever seen in a video game so far. Now after seeing this, most GTA fans were convinced that we were finally gonna get the ultimate GTA game based on our favourite city - New York. And while Rockstar got New York City right, we felt they got many things wrong by leaving many things out. We were already used to going fowards and progressing with GTA, not going backwards and regressing. There would been plenty of more ideas left for the next GTA game after GTA 4, Rockstar would just have to work harder. I think many GTA fans like me and the rest that think likewise are very justified in feeling let down and disappointment by GTA 4's failure to realise it's full potential.

 

And I did say that I still think GTA 4 is a very good game, so dont think I'm out to hate on it.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Official General

[cosmicboy]

 

"We'll get our vice we'll get our SA" You sure about that bro? All I seen R* announce is GTA4 repackaged so you can buy it yet AGAIN

 

edit: also you write like a retard, get some paragraph spaces in there for gods sake.

 

 

 

Happy now? does it compute?? This might help you http://www.naturalreaders.com/

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

@Official General

 

Yes I now understand your point and opinion, im not necessarily aiming at your opinion, but of the less thought out opinions of the instant dismissal of not even trying to understand Gta's new method of gaming and mechanics so to speak.

 

Personally I share some of your opinion, but im patient with the optimism on the future releases.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What I meant was by you'll get your VICE and your SA to anyone whos wondering,

is that you'll get the features incoporated from these and so much more into the NEXT games, and of course dont forget they will be even better. Because IV is the new III and the posibilities with it are endless and exciting because they will spend so much more time on it, also the influence from the coding features which they have displayed in RDR, these scripts are all there now in the R.A.G.E engine ready to go, and add on top of that wat they are coming up with code wise in the meantime.

 

From RDR alone im guessing you will be able to rob banks, maybe tie up people somehow, buy more rewarding items in the shops, really enjoy spending your money and spending more time doing interesting things within the environment.

 

Gta IV gave us prosper for the future perfection and variety that will be recieved, what im trying to say is I think no matter what you think, IV has excited us all for whats to come, and triggered our imagination of what future features can be possible, for this im rewarding the title.

 

Thats it, thats my opinion.

 

I just think that people are forgetting all that they added to IV, maybe its done so well some people dont even notice. The reviewers I think were correct in not searching for what has been done with it, but all of the major improvments in gaming in general they did do. No game content wise and innovation wise could even come close to what R* did on the Xbox and even the Ps3, the rest of the features in NEXT are gonna be spectacular.

 

Rockstar shook the gaming industry, not one person in it gave a sh*t about extra features missing from before, they pissed all over any attempts from anyone trying to compete with the pure power within the game portrayed.

 

Its like giving R* 4 years, they create a magnificant space shuttle, admire it and test it. Give them another 4 years and we're finally gonna see whats on our way into space.

Edited October 6, 2010 by cosmicboy

[bluesboyjr]

Of all the GTA games, I can proudly say I had the most "fun" with IV. It's hard to explain why; it's all to do with the way it feels to play it. Everything seems to mesh together perfectly in a way that can look realistic to someone watching and feel enthralling to the player. I personally don't need most of the gimmicks "features" that were "taken out" of GTA IV - things like burgularies, delivery missions and the like feel more like chores than fun. It's the mark of a good game where the player doesn't have to be told how to have fun - IV had that mark. One of my favourite things to do is drive around Francis International for as long as I can with out the LCPD killing me - it may sound boring, but thanks to the beautiful way things like driving and shooting are implemented, it can occupy me for much longer than throwing pizzas through coronas.

[cosmicboy]

 

Of all the GTA games, I can proudly say I had the most "fun" with IV. It's hard to explain why; it's all to do with the way it feels to play it. Everything seems to mesh together perfectly in a way that can look realistic to someone watching and feel enthralling to the player.

This is correct for me also,

 

Im still having fun with it, over 2 years of entertainment and value, still on going. For 60eur, ive never gotton even close to that much gameplay out of any game apart from the gta titles.

 

One night on the piss here in Dublin costs me an average of about 75eur on a cheapish night, drink, smokes and taxi's.

 

Another thing is multiplayer, I near sh*t myself the first day I played IV on release, getting into a car with 3 of my mates and ripping around Liberty City reaking pure havoc in that completely open world environment. This is also a big part of why IV is so great.

 

You cannot forget that is a big slice of what IV introduced.

Edited October 6, 2010 by cosmicboy

[cactus.]

@cosmic boy & General,

 

you both make some sound arguments, but clearly nobody is necessarily 'right or wrong.' While IV was inexplicably missing more realism germane to the missions (kill, kill, kill, race, kill, kill, drive here, kill, kill, etc..), it more than made up for by way of its stunningly detailed environment, gameplay, and story, in my opinion. In the end, it's hard for anyone to be %100 satisfied with the game. Despite our monstrous expectations of the next gta and the fact that it will indeed kick ass, it probably won't be everything that we want it to be.

 

 

[Kwandilibro]

It seems to me that R* kind of brought this upon themselves. I mean, you put a sh*tload of features, airplanes, countryside, and all sorts of other sh*t. Then you strip it down in the next game to the bare minimum and substitute material things for graphics? Why?

 

I think it's impossible to have everyone like a specific game, as there's always preferences. But that doesn't seem like the best move to me. Had R* not stripped GTA down so much; or not given SA so many things, we wouldn't have seen this whole problem with "IV being boring". Although that hitman style story was just truly boring. Great story, but boring.

 

They say if you expect nothing, you will be pleasantly surprised.

[coin-god]

Maybe it was just a move. They will put everything back in V, and people will say: "sh*t!, this one has a lot more features than IV!"

 

If they did add everything in IV, maybe V would be pretty much the same thing.

[bluesboyjr]

People will always find something to moan about. I will bet you ten shiny pounds that NeXt will not have jetpacks, and some people will bitch about it.

 

I put a list of features that IV had that previous GTAs didn't (e.g. online multiplayer, TV and internet, functioning taxis, etc etc) in another topic, and I think if you weigh them up in terms of how useful and interesting they are, are worth more to the game than the ability to get your player fat. But, alas, these new features are overlooked in favour of the gimmicks of past games ("I'm so sad that my Forklift can not move its front prongs; I'm going to go play Saint's bloody Row"). On an interesting side note, I haven't seen anybody mourning the passing of remote-controlled plane missions, I wonder why?

 

I've seen people moan about the most trivial of things that were "missing" from IV. For example, the game has no sports arena. Boo hoo. Sure, it may be a little bit unrealistic, seeing as New York has sport arenas aplenty, but, seriously? You were driving around Liberty City moaning about the lack of a Madison Square Garden stand-in? What about the Guggenheim Museum? There's one of those in New York, but nowhere in the game. Rockstar, you lazy bastards, WHERE'S MY F*CKING GUGGENHEIM?

 

In the end, Rockstar North will put what they want in their games, and not put in what they don't want. You may say that the game is ruined because it doesn't have X, Y or Z in it, and Rockstar will turn around and say "We don't give aa f*ck about your X, Y or Z, because X is tedious, Y is stupid, and Z had no point except for one mission, finding collectibles and commiting suicide.".

[cosmicboy]

Exactly,

 

Also people are not seeing Gta as a series, everything as a whole they have pleased everyone with, otherwise none of would be here in the first place if we didnt have a favourite. Personally my favourites are nearly always the newest editions, because of the added gameplay and depth factor. They always get more epic.

 

Gta IV is like the first category on the new Gen consoles, everyone will eventually get something they want. Every Gta does not have to be the same, besides what do Rockstar have to owe anybody?? Nothing, if I were in Rockstar games i'd be doing exactly the same as them, whatever the f*ck I want. What satisfies the staff who work countless hours and put in so much of their talents into. They were proud as f*ck of IV and I dont think anybody would blame them. They make the rules, and they also know how to break them.

 

Same goes with all this ERA talk, I dont see the same "era" thing that the fans have basically made up, aka because there is a couple of references made from one Gta to another or because they dont have a letter (the NEXT letter) in the name as being in a Gta era. I see it as being in the same gaming engine, same gameplay mechanics and general levels of technology being the true "era" of a Gta series. Like even if the next Gta is called V, if using R.A.G.E and building on the general mechanics given in IV, as still being in the IV era. Like if VC and SA had of been called IV and V, they still would have been III era, and the new IV would have been the next era which will be continued until next gen.

 

^^^^This car aint sh*t without the engine and technology^^^^

Edited October 7, 2010 by cosmicboy

[amweaver47]

I think what GTA IV was missing was the "ability to play" after completing the story. I guess you could just do the storyline again but I love games that after you get 100% you can spend hours still playing it. That is what makes a game priceless to me. I hate to mention an unrelated game on gtaforum, but I absolutely love Dirt 2. I got 100% months ago, but I still have a ton of fun with it. idk, that's just my opinion.

[Official General]

 

People will always find something to moan about. I will bet you ten shiny pounds that NeXt will not have jetpacks, and some people will bitch about it.

 

I put a list of features that IV had that previous GTAs didn't (e.g. online multiplayer, TV and internet, functioning taxis, etc etc) in another topic, and I think if you weigh them up in terms of how useful and interesting they are, are worth more to the game than the ability to get your player fat. But, alas, these new features are overlooked in favour of the gimmicks of past games ("I'm so sad that my Forklift can not move its front prongs; I'm going to go play Saint's bloody Row"). On an interesting side note, I haven't seen anybody mourning the passing of remote-controlled plane missions, I wonder why?

 

I've seen people moan about the most trivial of things that were "missing" from IV. For example, the game has no sports arena. Boo hoo. Sure, it may be a little bit unrealistic, seeing as New York has sport arenas aplenty, but, seriously? You were driving around Liberty City moaning about the lack of a Madison Square Garden stand-in? What about the Guggenheim Museum? There's one of those in New York, but nowhere in the game. Rockstar, you lazy bastards, WHERE'S MY F*CKING GUGGENHEIM?

 

In the end, Rockstar North will put what they want in their games, and not put in what they don't want. You may say that the game is ruined because it doesn't have X, Y or Z in it, and Rockstar will turn around and say "We don't give aa f*ck about your X, Y or Z, because X is tedious, Y is stupid, and Z had no point except for one mission, finding collectibles and commiting suicide.".

@ Comsicboy

 

Its good to know you read my reply properly and that you were able to see my point of view a lot more clearly. Now at least we can both understand each other equally with regards to the points you and I made.

 

@ bluesboyjr

 

First of all, you need to chill, because I'm pretty sure that me and no one on here like myself is very depressed or feeling suicidal simply because we all felt very let down and disappointed by GTA 4. We all have other things goings on, GTA is not our life. You don't need to dramatize the whole situation, its only a GTA forum discussion, just relax.

 

On topic, you are right, people will always find things b*tch or moan about whether they are big or small, it is a fact of life.

But just because someone expresses disappointment with a product that they saw as having high expectations, to you it must automatically mean that they are just b*tching or moaning? Maybe this never occured to you but, many GTA fans like myself genuinely felt let down by GTA 4 for various reasons I've already discussed in my earlier comments. Some might be trivial, but many are not. You must be really blinded by your love for GTA 4 for you to dismiss the complaints and feelings of disappointment with the game as merely just 'b*tiching' and 'moaning'. I understand you like GTA 4, you were really happy with it and I respect that, but that is you. You and those like you are in a minority and that is real talk - the general feeling of the situation is that most GTA fans were actually genuinely disappointed with GTA 4 and with good justification. There is no smoke without fire my friend. They all cannot simply just be 'b*tching' and 'moaning' as you have put it.

 

You put together a list of features that previous GTAs before GTA 4 did not have. OK some of them are cool, but come on do not fool yourself. A majority of GTA fans found a lot of the GTA 4-only features boring and repetitive. Online multiplayer, oh wow. GTA 4's online MP is just the same old, same old running around endlessly shooting and blowing up other players in free-for-all deathmatches, there are like a million games like that around these days. And the TV ? You must be joking ! You seriously found that very entertaining ? While the TV was an interesting new feature, it was certainly nothing special at all, its use in the game was very insignificant and most players are not gonna sit through a game just to watch the TV. The social actvities like bowling, pool and darts ? Nice distraction, but what is so big and exciting about that? Shooting pigeons for meaningless scores ? Sorry not enough motivation for me. Functioning Taxis ? Yes this was a very welcome new feature, but to be honest with you Vice City already had some kind of stripped down version of this. Functioning taxis is a feature that should have been put in GTA a long time ago to be honest, it is not like its the most complicated feature to implement. The internet and cell phone features were brilliant and I give GTA 4 a lot of credit for that hands down. But apart from those two, most of new features in GTA 4 were nothing special and many of them were useless, boring and repetitive. This was actually one of the main reasons why people complained about GTA 4 in the first place, regardless of whether you liked it.

 

When talking about the 'missing things' from GTA 4 that people moaned about, I noticed you only seemed to talk about the trivial or lesser stuff like changing your protagonist's physique, remote-control plane tasks, jetpacks, and lack of sports stadiums. I'm not saying all of those minor things individually mean everything, but collectively sometimes they can mean something to a lot of people. Some of the minor stuff that is missing in GTA 4 don't bother me at all. The stuff you've just mentioned I dont really care too much about, I've said this already. But come on, dont be try to be smart. Most of the 'missing stuff' that people moaned about was the important major stuff that made previous GTA games like Vice City and San Andreas such incredible and real fun experiences. Like buying and owning businesses/properties, robbing stores, selling drugs, burglarizing houses and buildings, recruiting gangs, fighting gang wars, claiming territory, criminal and gang member peds committing crimes and having shoot-outs in bad neighbourhoods and so on. The stuff that GTA is essential supposed to be made of. These 'missing things' sound a lot more fun and interesting to me than all the new things you listed as only being in GTA 4.

 

Rockstar can do whatever they want for sure. But if they know whats good for them, they will at least learn a very important lesson this time around and actually listen to their fans concerns and what they want. Bceause if they do not, GTA's reputation will suffer even further and the great name in gaming it has made for itself maybe not be so great anymore in the future. Rockstar needs to keep on top of its game on this, and they aint gonna be consistent at it, if they keep disappointing it fans. You might have been happy with GTA 4 regressing instead of progressing, as good as the game looks. But the fact is, a majority of us were not happy and we wanna see some major improvements so just respect that. If not, then you too can keep on moaning yourself about us 'moaners' as you do now. Then we all become 'moaners' and moan until our final days.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Official General

[cactus.]

And the TV ? You must be joking ! You seriously found that very entertaining ? While the TV was an interesting new feature, it was certainly nothing special at all, its use in the game was very insignificant and most players are not gonna sit through a game just to watch the TV.

This made me think of the first time my friend and I came across Republican Space Rangers. We were laughing so hard that we missed a lot of jokes, and waited for it to come on again. That show was f*cking awesome. But once you've seen the good shows and had a glimpse at the not-so-good ones the TV becomes useless. Nonetheless, I fully appreciate it for helping make your safehouse actually feel like an apartment and a home, instead of just a space to save your game.

 

 

[cosmicboy]

 

And the TV ? You must be joking ! You seriously found that very entertaining ? While the TV was an interesting new feature, it was certainly nothing special at all, its use in the game was very insignificant and most players are not gonna sit through a game just to watch the TV.

This made me think of the first time my friend and I came across Republican Space Rangers. We were laughing so hard that we missed a lot of jokes, and waited for it to come on again. That show was f*cking awesome. But once you've seen the good shows and had a glimpse at the not-so-good ones the TV becomes useless. Nonetheless, I fully appreciate it for helping make your safehouse actually feel like an apartment and a home, instead of just a space to save your game.

The likes of the t.v are merely options, some consider useless some not, I find it not boring when used in context. For instance whenever me and my friends play gta taking turns when we a have break, say a bit of grub few drinks or smokes I go into the apartment and flick on the t.v for a laugh and it is quite entertaining. Again It probably wouldn't be as entertaining stopping mid game by myself and watching it but in this context I find it great as do others. Nobody forces anyone to watch it. The good part is it's there.

 

@officialgeneral, to say IV regressed is an opinion, not fact. So let's remove all the features that was a great part of the game, euphoria, the general physics, the engine, the graphics (which I can't understand people have a problem with rockstar focusing so much on, it's a game, it's a major role today in what their all about), the multiplayer, the atmosphere, the improved a.I, the new interactions, the improved sound, the t.v, the Internet, the character depth, the phone, the story, the unique damage system, the sheer attention to detail and so much more, you know all of these improvements when you compare, this is mainly what rockstar worked on for four years, remove this and you have another SA, with a new city maybe better graphics more things to do but same everything else.

 

How much time do you think it takes to make a game? Would you rather wait 7 or 8 years for IV to be perfect or get a dose in-between of the power it beholds, get feedback and add what's good to the next. This sh*t takes time, again I appreciate your opinion but I don't think you appreciate the process or have much patience with how long it takes, IV is the first dose, collectively the future games will please everyone, I feel it was a great Start to the new gen gta.

Edited October 7, 2010 by cosmicboy

[Official General]

 

And the TV ? You must be joking ! You seriously found that very entertaining ? While the TV was an interesting new feature, it was certainly nothing special at all, its use in the game was very insignificant and most players are not gonna sit through a game just to watch the TV.

This made me think of the first time my friend and I came across Republican Space Rangers. We were laughing so hard that we missed a lot of jokes, and waited for it to come on again. That show was f*cking awesome. But once you've seen the good shows and had a glimpse at the not-so-good ones the TV becomes useless. Nonetheless, I fully appreciate it for helping make your safehouse actually feel like an apartment and a home, instead of just a space to save your game.

@ Cacti

 

Don't get me wrong, I actually thought the TV in GTA 4 was a nice, cool and interesting new feature in the game. It was something not seen before in a GTA game which made it even more of a surprise. But just like you and I both stated earlier, the TV feature became pretty much useless once you had seen all the shows on it. It was nice to have, but the truth of the matter is that it only served as a very minor form of entertainment within the game and it was of very small significance. I was really just making a point to bluesboyjr to be honest - he seems to think that the TV was one of a set of incredible and amazing new features found only in GTA 4, thus in his eyes making GTA 4 much better than the previous GTAs.

 

I do understand and agree with your point about the TV making your safehouse feel like proper home though. That is what I liked about it. Aside from buying property, I really think Rockstar should expand on the safehouse interior features in the next GTA, like allowing more customization options, just like what you get in Sainst Row 2. Rather than get things for free, you should be able to go to a store and purchase various items for your safehouse like the TV itself, a PC, a pool table, stereo + music tracks, various interior designs, you know stuff to give you more little things to spend your money on and make earning money feel more rewarding, rather than just buy food, clothing and weapons.

 

I think the assets features in GTA: Vice City alone crushed anything GTA 4 had to offer for sheer fun and immersive entertainment. I had way much more fun in Vice City doing various smaller side missions and activities like robbing stores in hold-ups, taxi cab jobs and pizza delivery jobs, in order to quickly earn enough money to buy my first property and my first business. It was a nice mix of illegal and legal ways to make money. I remember just how eager I was to own my first set of assets that I was prepared to keep doing these simple tasks over and over again for the cash. What was even more fun, was that when once you bought a business, you had to complete a special set of side missions to unlock the ability to earn a regular income from that particular business. Once your business was earning you money, you were able to collect the weekly profits whenever you chose to do so. It was really handy to have a regular supply of money coming in, especially when you were low on funds and you just simply needed more money to buy other things, or maybe when you wanted to raise money to buy even more property and assets to build up your criminal empire. I also liked the way members of your own Mafia gang would protect your properties/businesses and shoot at anyone who bothered you and join you in having gunfights with intruders or trespassers. I just loved the way Vice City provided you with very cool things to do in the game, other than the main storyline missions. And in my view, they were certainly a lot more meaningful, interesting and fun than any of the new features in GTA 4 that bluesboyjr mentioned earlier on here.

 

GTA: San Andreas had a very similar set of assets features to Vice City, but the main significant one was different in that it invloved claiming territory in gang wars. I really liked the fact that you could recruit your own gang to assist you and you go out and start gang wars in the city and win them to claim territory, that was major fun. The fact that you made regular money from your captured territories also made it more meaningful and interesting - this stuff happens in the real life Los Angeles street gang culture that San Andreas is largely based on. It was also nice to gamble in casinos, spending money to make more even more money, that was another brilliant feature of SA.

 

If anyone really agrees with bluesboyjr and believe that GTA 4's 'great new features' like the TV, internet, online MP, pigeon-shooting, dates, social activites etc were more fun and interesting than the above features named in Vice City and San Andreas, then fair enough its their choice. But I definitely know which ones I would have more fun with and find interesting and it would surely be with the best features in VC and SA not GTA 4. I'm also pretty sure a majority of GTA fans will agree me too.

 

@ comsicboy - Do you not read my posts properly at all ? Of course I appreciate the process and hard-work behind GTA 4's production values, it shows in my comments. I have always stated that GTA 4 looks incredible - it is the most visually stunning and realistic depiction of New York City ever seen in a video game so far. I meant that GTA 4 regressed with regards to certain elements of its gameplay and content, not it's technological qualities. GTA 4 is most certainly a technically and graphically advanced game in many ways, and I'm always ready to be the first to admit that and promote that fact. But it definitely fell short in the other important areas I've just mentioned.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Official General

[bluesboyjr]

You and those like you are in a minority and that is real talk - the general feeling of the situation is that most GTA fans were actually genuinely disappointed with GTA 4 and with good justification. There is no smoke without fire my friend. They all cannot simply just be 'b*tching' and 'moaning' as you have put it.

 

 

Umm, since when were the majority of players "genuinely disappointed" with GTA IV? Through my time on these forums, I've seen quite a bit of criticism towards the game (I'm perfectly aware that the game isn't perfect, I'll list some of its problems later), but I've seen few who refer to it as an actual disappointment. For example, Metacritic, a website that averages critic scores, lists it as the greatest game of all time; the similar website Game Rankings lists it as fourth best under the Mario Galaxys and a Zelda game. Now, before you mention it, no, these don't prove much (video game reviews talk as much crap as we do), and they don't represent the "fans". Grand Theft Wiki ran a poll on people's favourite GTAs (again not a perfect representation of ourselves - a lot of the series' fans are grown adults with better things to do, remember), and GTA SA beat GTA IV into second place by a significant amount. Does this mean that people were disappointed with GTA IV - you like Vice City more than San Andreas, does that mean you were disappointed by the latter? Maybe some were, maybe a significant number, but never the majority. Saying that is as much a misguided over statement as me saying that everyone who doesn't like IV is bitching little kid.

 

As for the "bitching and moaning" bit, I accept that was a harsh generalisation. GTA had its faults: garages were much more ideal than street parking; the game's collectibles left an empty feeling ("There, I've put the 200 pigeons into the game, people will find it quite a challenge, but it'll be worth it when they see the reward we... oh, I knew we'd forgotten something"); 100% completion was the same; the TV was quite sh*t in places, I'll admit (it was a new and interesting feature, I didn't say it was The Sopranos); more than four safehouses; something more to spend your money on would be nice after the main story; a few more interiors would be of interest; perhaps one biplane in the airport for good measure etc. etc. I was mainly referring to those of you who nitpick like bureaucrats on steroids.

 

 

A majority of GTA fans found a lot of the GTA 4-only features boring and repetitive.

And the same couldn't be said about some GTA III Era features? RC plane missions ? Paramedic/Vigilante/Firefighter missions where you had to restart from Level 1 if you made a mistake (special thanks to Chinatown Wars for making them bearable...)? Having to work out and eat sensibly (nothing screams Grand Theft Auto like lessons in fighting obesity)? Running across the state to stop a gang war (I just hijacked a fighter jet to blow up Russian spies, why do I have to bother with a few street punks)? I may be going over stuff I've already moaned about before, but there's as much to dislike in the old as the new.

 

 

Most of the 'missing stuff' that people moaned about was the important major stuff that made previous GTA games like Vice City and San Andreas such incredible and real fun experiences. Like buying and owning businesses/properties, robbing stores, selling drugs, burglarizing houses and buildings, recruiting gangs, fighting gang wars, claiming territory, criminal and gang member peds committing crimes and having shoot-outs in bad neighbourhoods and so on. The stuff that GTA is essential supposed to be made of. These 'missing things' sound a lot more fun and interesting to me than all the new things you listed as only being in GTA 4.

The things I've bolded were only in GTA SA (apologies if any of them were also in VCS, I don't have that one), so you can hardly call them "essential" if they've only been in one game. Let's see... buying properties would have been nice, but not completely necessary, as the taxi could take you to any safehouse in seconds (speaking of which, there was a taxi in VC, but it could only take you from the hospital/police station to your last mission, which is the same as IV's "retry mission" phone feature). Robbing stores was simply pointing a gun at someone and getting money for it, nothing special. If I'm correct, in IV you could steal money from the cash register in TW@. Selling drugs? I can only remember that being in VC, where all you did was drive around in a Mr Whoopee, stop next to some folks, escape a one-star wanted level, wash rinse repeat. Little Jacob's drug missions were more "fun" than that, even though they were limited. Burglary missions were pretty boring in my opinion - stealth wasn't well implemented in SA (all you have to do to avoid people is tip-toe? What is this, Scooby-Doo?), and the process was unrewarding. All the gang-related things you mentioned worked well together in GTA SA (also TBoGT for the bits they carried across) - the game itself was centered around early nineties gang culture. However, in GTA IV Niko (much like our beloved Claude) never stuck to one "gang", so it wouldn't have made sense. Remember, each GTA game is unique, telling a different story and giving of a different feel - it's not just one big interchangeable experience.

 

Also, "these 'missing things' sound a lot more fun and interesting to me". Those little words "to me" tell it all. We are all different with different opinions - to me, quite a few of them don't really sound that fun or interesting. Making games would be a whole lot easier if we all wanted the same things.

 

 

Rockstar can do whatever they want for sure. But if they know whats good for them, they will at least learn a very important lesson this time around and actually listen to their fans concerns and what they want. Bceause if they do not, GTA's reputation will suffer even further and the great name in gaming it has made for itself maybe not be so great anymore in the future. Rockstar needs to keep on top of its game on this, and they aint gonna be consistent at it, if they keep disappointing it fans. You might have been happy with GTA 4 regressing instead of progressing, as good as the game looks. But the fact is, a majority of us were not happy and we wanna see some major improvements so just respect that.

Are you sure? GTA IV broke several industry records on its release in terms of sales, and I bet you that GTA V will break more. Rockstar doesn't cater to our needs, it creates things that appeal to way more people than we little sad forumers. If any of us is in the minority, it's all of us compared to the masses who view the game (and games in general) completely differently to our idolship of one franchise.

 

As for regressing/progressing thing, it's true that the GTA series is going in a different direction, but this isn't some simple forwards/backwards thing. The series is getting more serious and "realistic", that's for sure (although the Episodes sort of diverted this), but does that mean it's getting better or worse? It's all a matter of taste.

 

 

If not, then you too can keep on moaning yourself about us 'moaners' as you do now. Then we all become 'moaners' and moan until our final days.

Indeed. You moan about IV, I moan about SA, you moan about me, I moan about you, then everyone who realises that it's all a bit silly to compare two different games in terms of opinion roll their eyes and actually play the bloody games instead of moaning about them.