Is this game smooth for anybody?

[unwinding]

Something is wrong with GTA IV PC.. I just got a new system - Core i7 860 with a single GTS 450 1gb DDR5 vram and 8 gigs of ram. Please do not tell my my setup is lacking, the GTS 450 is a mainstream (inexpensive) card but it had great performance, certainly more than capable of playing GTA IV.

 

Here is the thing, if I set the game to pretty conservative settings (1280x720, sliders don't go above 30, details on medium) then I can average 60fps in the benchmark, and 60fps in gameplay for about 30 seconds. Then it starts getting choppy and goes down to 30... even less than that (checked using fraps). I lowered everything to the lowest possible setting and it is almost the exact same behavior! One thing I noticed is that in the task manager, GTAIV.exe eats up a lot of RAM and the choppiness begins when it approaches using 2 gigs. Virtual memory problem maybe? My ram is literally fine, I've benchmarked/stress tested it to be sure. I noticed I can raise the settings to high and the sliders to 50 and still get the exact same behavior. If I try 1920x1080, I don't get 60fps at first but I do get 45 and then it dips to the 20s after 30 seconds. I've read a lot of threads regarding similar behavior and some of the suggestions are to use the memory limit command which doesn't do anything, or to turn off hypertheading or every other core in task manager which also does nothing. I tried defragging for the heck of it and that didn't change a thing (and for me, it never has since the win 9x days. If this ever improves performance and it isn't placebo then you must have a badly fragmented drive)

 

This is with and without vsync. GTA IV's vsync is bizzare and I saw this in another thread but I can back it up. No vsync, fraps shows 4000+ FPS during the loading screens. The benchmark rarely exceeds 64 which is strange, I think there is a frame cap when you're driving because this also happens in game (until it gets choppy). When indoors, the FPS will exceed 60 and I see 70 and 80. Forcing vsync on via direct3doverrider or driver control panel causes loading to take significantly longer which is strange. Using GTA IV's built in vsync seems to limit the framerate to below your monitor's refresh to avoid tearing (so max framerate for me if like 56). Why does it do that? Annoyingly, it still works like a double buffered vsync so if the framerate drops below that it cuts to 28 fps (even though I'm forcing triple buffering with direct3doverrider). This is not how vsync should work!

 

Just a side not, most gamers seem to think vsync causes a massive performance penalty which is kinda true but it's not because it's resource heavy. It's because when you use vsync, it's double buffered by default synced to your monitor's refresh rate. If your monitor is 60 hz, the video card will draw to it's buffer and serve 60fps max to the display buffer (double buffering). If the fps dips below 60fps, the graphics card has to wait for the the display causing a delay which halves the framerate. So if a section is 50fps, you get 30fps with vsync. If it's 28fps, you'll get 15fps with vsync. Triple buffering uses ram to create a third buffer so the graphics card doesn't wait for the display. On all modern systems there is no performance penalty, but you have to force if for direct 3d games using a 3rd party tool (d3doverrider which comes with rivatuner). Some games are not compatible though, but many are. This gives you vsync without the performance penalty (but potential mouse lag for some discriminating FPS players)

 

So does this game run smooth for anybody out there? Like run fraps for 5 minutes of outdoor game time and see what your average FPS is. Since most gamers aren't bothered by tearing (for some reason), I have a feeling that a lot of people are playing the game in the 20s and not being bothered by it too but I hope I'm wrong. Anyways, I suppose it's still better than the console version but only barely

[Spider-Vice]

Not bothering because I want Rockstar to fix this ASAP. Low settings = 50 FPS always - crank some stuff up = 20-30. Doesn't happen in other games.

[yoječ]

K, did the benchmark for ya.

 

Playing unmodded (except for xliveless) GTAIV with latest patch, driving orange Infernus through the city. Most of the time I had 3-star wanted level. I started benchmarking when I got into the car.

 

Results:

Min FPS: 23.

Max FPS: 42.

Avg FPS: 30.

 

Seems comfortable enough for me.

 

Settings: 1680x1050 maximum apart from the car density set at 55 (lowered not because of performance, but I simply found lower settings actually better to play).

 

Gaming rig:

Xeon X3440 @ 2,53GHz (stock)

GeForce GTX470 (stock)

4GB RAM

 

PS. Getting i7-860 and GTS450 was total nonsense. It'd be much better rig if you got i5-760 and GTX460 1GB.

Edited September 30, 2010 by yojo2

[unwinding]

Thanks yojo2 for doing benchmarking. I don't think there is any reason this games needs to dip down in the 20s though. Your results are similar to mine despite better video hardware

 

And good point on the gts 450, I shouldn't have skimped out on a $100. I'm gonna eat the restocking fee and get your card (gtx 470). I wanted the quad because I do a lot of encoding, and encoding is one of the few things that will utilize the more cpu power you throw at it.

 

BTW, I disabled virutal memory and saw a 5-10fps average increase. At 1280x720 I was getting 80 fps even outdoors, but it dips down to exactly 30 after a minute of gameplay still. Is it locked into lower framerate? I'm going to limit by vram and system ram to what the recommended requirements are and test some more

[Captain_Obvis456]

Did you try this? this helped out my game a lot. No more stuttering.

[Spider-Vice]

and some of the suggestions are to use the memory limit command which doesn't do anything

You did a TL;DR huh, Captain Obvis?

[viometrix]

this game runs super smooth for me. see specs below.

[unwinding]

Did you try this? this helped out my game a lot. No more stuttering.

I did using -memrestrict 629145600 , and although at first I didn't think it did anything I'm noticing that my framerate now goes back up (probably at the expense of popup, right?) instead of staying locked in at a specific low fps like it was doing before. Also, everything on low I may have forgot to remove vsync before because it averages at 100fps. I'll keep messing with it, who knows maybe there is a 'sweet spot' for my setup?

 

Although I said disabling virtual memory increased FPS, Windows and apps do not run as well when there is no page file so I don't recommend that. Same with disabling hyperthreading, there might be a slight gain but overall not worth disabling.

 

Vsync is still messed up though and playing with the framelimit setting doesn't seem to help. This is quite a strange game.. I think it has something to do with how it was designed for the 360... The base model used to have no hard drive (arcade unit, standard unit) and it will run off the disc making lots of noise streaming stuff on the fly. I think that streaming aspect is affecting performance on the PC port, just my theory..

[unwinding]

this game runs super smooth for me. see specs below.

That's a pretty sweet rig viometrix. What does fraps say your actual framerates are with GTAIV though? GTA IV only uses three cores max, so it most likely wouldn't be using the remaining 9 cores. Pretty impressive setup though!

[viometrix]

fraps gives me 120 fps on a single monitor with vsync off @ 1920 x 1080 with all settings at max (i prefer it on for cleanness, so i get 85- 95 fps). i know my rig is beyond what 99% of people can have, but i am a wholesaler of computer components. also of note i am finally in a position to offer retail pricing that i hope will compete with or beat new egg in some cases. so everyone expect a rollout of info soon, and gta forum members will get extra discounts.

[OverTheBelow]

fraps gives me 120 fps on a single monitor with vsync off @ 1920 x 1080 with all settings at max (i prefer it on for cleanness, so i get 85- 95 fps). i know my rig is beyond what 99% of people can have, but i am a wholesaler of computer components. also of note i am finally in a position to offer retail pricing that i hope will compete with or beat new egg in some cases. so everyone expect a rollout of info soon, and gta forum members will get extra discounts.

Would be awesome, looking to buy an i5 in coming months but we don't have cheap Newegg prices here in the UK.

[unwinding]

Well, I've run a lot of command line switches and used many possible configuration settings. Ultimately, this game will not stay above 30fps (which I consider the minimum playable framrate) when Crysis and Crysis Warhead run absolutely fine. This is the worst PC game ever, it runs like absolute crap. It's going on ebay. I hope they don't release a red dead redemption PC port because it will no doubt run the same way. What a terrible excuse of a PC game Rockstar, shame on you. It's crap. Absolute crap.

[viometrix]

i do international as it is, so youll be in good shape. also i sell things anywhere at american prices, so you wont get those steep mark ups. if you want we can build and burn in your new rig too.

[unwinding]

You know viometrix, after thinking about it you are 99% full of it. There is no way you get 120 fps consistently at 1080p with your rig. Total BS dude, you're definitely lying. I admit, that's a sweet setup but your video card isn't much better than the 470 gx is and your CPU definitely doesn't count since the crappy software is limited to three threads. GTA IV PC is terrible any way you look at it. This is the worst piece of software ever to grace the commericial gaming scene and do not lie at all and say that it magically works better with a high-end video card and CPU when it doesn't even utilize either. GTAIV's visuals are nothing special at all. Not on the consoles, definitely not on PC. There is no reason for the poor performance. The only reason for rockstar having a recent patch was because of episode from liberty city. What a terrible game, nobody should lie and defend it. It's trash. The PS3/360 versions are vastly superior. The PC game is trash no matter how you look at it unless you lie like viemetrix. Good luck on competing with newegg

[mystk]

Are you running a 64 bit OS?

[viometrix]

You know viometrix, after thinking about it you are 99% full of it. There is no way you get 120 fps consistently at 1080p with your rig. Total BS dude, you're definitely lying. I admit, that's a sweet setup but your video card isn't much better than the 470 gx is and your CPU definitely doesn't count since the crappy software is limited to three threads. GTA IV PC is terrible any way you look at it. This is the worst piece of software ever to grace the commericial gaming scene and do not lie at all and say that it magically works better with a high-end video card and CPU when it doesn't even utilize either. GTAIV's visuals are nothing special at all. Not on the consoles, definitely not on PC. There is no reason for the poor performance. The only reason for rockstar having a recent patch was because of episode from liberty city. What a terrible game, nobody should lie and defend it. It's trash. The PS3/360 versions are vastly superior. The PC game is trash no matter how you look at it unless you lie like viemetrix. Good luck on competing with newegg

LMAO some people have actually gotten close to the same fps on a i7 and gtx 480 @ 1680 x 1050. i have no reason to lie, its not like im going to win a contest, and im not trying to be popular or i wouldnt be an asshole all the time. but think what you want, it doesnt affect my life in any way. also i see by your join date your the new kid on the block trying to cut your teeth. well read all of my posts and you find not only do i not lie, im not the guy to mess with either. i thankfully make more money than most 15 - 20 combined in a year, why would i need to lie about anything (except maybe to the irs).

[plugin_]

Do you have a gameplay video up?

[kudoboi]

You know viometrix, after thinking about it you are 99% full of it.  There is no way you get 120 fps consistently at 1080p with your rig.  Total BS dude, you're definitely lying.  I admit, that's a sweet setup but your video card isn't much better than the 470 gx is and your CPU definitely doesn't count since the crappy software is limited to three threads.  GTA IV PC is terrible any way you look at it.  This is the worst piece of software ever to grace the commericial gaming scene and do not lie at all and say that it magically works better with a high-end video card and CPU when it doesn't even utilize either.  GTAIV's visuals are nothing special at all. Not on the consoles, definitely not on PC.  There is no reason for the poor performance.  The only reason for rockstar having a recent patch was because of episode from liberty city.  What a terrible game, nobody should lie and defend it.  It's trash.  The PS3/360 versions are vastly superior.  The PC game is trash no matter how you look at it unless you lie like viemetrix.  Good luck on competing with newegg

LMAO some people have actually gotten close to the same fps on a i7 and gtx 480 @ 1680 x 1050. i have no reason to lie, its not like im going to win a contest, and im not trying to be popular or i wouldnt be an asshole all the time. but think what you want, it doesnt affect my life in any way. also i see by your join date your the new kid on the block trying to cut your teeth. well read all of my posts and you find not only do i not lie, im not the guy to mess with either. i thankfully make more money than most 15 - 20 combined in a year, why would i need to lie about anything (except maybe to the irs).

good comp, but as far as i know my com is 2.66GHZ on core 2 duo with 9500GT nVidia and the game works fine. i reconmand u try updating ur graphic card drivers. i had a problem on mafia 2 where my game keeps reloading the map every 10 seconds and everytime it reloads the game pauses, so i updated my graphic card and it worked fine again. if ur com is not 2.66GHZ i think u need a new comp.

[Captain_Obvis456]

 

You know viometrix, after thinking about it you are 99% full of it.  There is no way you get 120 fps consistently at 1080p with your rig.  Total BS dude, you're definitely lying.  I admit, that's a sweet setup but your video card isn't much better than the 470 gx is and your CPU definitely doesn't count since the crappy software is limited to three threads.  GTA IV PC is terrible any way you look at it.  This is the worst piece of software ever to grace the commericial gaming scene and do not lie at all and say that it magically works better with a high-end video card and CPU when it doesn't even utilize either.  GTAIV's visuals are nothing special at all. Not on the consoles, definitely not on PC.  There is no reason for the poor performance.  The only reason for rockstar having a recent patch was because of episode from liberty city.  What a terrible game, nobody should lie and defend it.  It's trash.  The PS3/360 versions are vastly superior.  The PC game is trash no matter how you look at it unless you lie like viemetrix.  Good luck on competing with newegg

LMAO some people have actually gotten close to the same fps on a i7 and gtx 480 @ 1680 x 1050. i have no reason to lie, its not like im going to win a contest, and im not trying to be popular or i wouldnt be an asshole all the time. but think what you want, it doesnt affect my life in any way. also i see by your join date your the new kid on the block trying to cut your teeth. well read all of my posts and you find not only do i not lie, im not the guy to mess with either. i thankfully make more money than most 15 - 20 combined in a year, why would i need to lie about anything (except maybe to the irs).

Ahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha.

I guess he's mildly aggravated.

No idea why he says only 3 cores are used. mine uses all 4.

And there's no way it looks better on PS3 or Xbox. I have played both.

It makes you wonder why he even asks when he hates it so much.

Sweet system BTW viometrix.

Oh and Spider-Vice, lol.

[viometrix]

ehhh hes the new guy, and obviously not very tech saavy - we can forgive him. he doesnt realize that there are many techs in this particular section. i dont care for GTA so much any more, but the forum is meant for the hardware that runs it, and that is my specialty. i love that he called me a liar - most here could call me an asshole and be totally justified, but liar i think not.

 

you know whats funny, even with this beast i still get pop in!!!! not as heavy as far as trees, but buildings and structures didnt change (though texture pop in is minimal if at all now).

[IronHide-AW]

Yep and he trolls and tells other people they're lying when the game runs great for them. You're not the 1st and probably not the last. I think he's simply angry that it runs like crap for him, and because it does, doesn't want to believe others have equipment that crushes and totally tames the game. At-least he's building a history of this behavior so eventually folks will just ignore his rants, and likely most other things he has to say. A solid i7 at 3.5+ (4+ prefer), extreme SLI or solid QSLI and plenty of ram will tame the beast and make it god-like smooth at 1920x1200. I wound up building my last dev rig specifically to crush the game, and does it ever.

[DjMiikkii]

I can manage to get 30-50FPS in the benchmark and roughly the same during gameplay. But the game is still NEVER smooth UNLESS I turn shadows down to the lowest setting or off.

 

Might be due to me only having 3Gb of RAM, but hey. It's still playable. But you can still notice a BIG difference in how smooth it is when you turn the settings right down. Even though I get a decent FPS when its on High.

[unwinding]

Yep and he trolls and tells other people they're lying when the game runs great for them. You're not the 1st and probably not the last. I think he's simply angry that it runs like crap for him, and because it does, doesn't want to believe others have equipment that crushes and totally tames the game. At-least he's building a history of this behavior so eventually folks will just ignore his rants, and likely most other things he has to say. A solid i7 at 3.5+ (4+ prefer), extreme SLI or solid QSLI and plenty of ram will tame the beast and make it god-like smooth at 1920x1200. I wound up building my last dev rig specifically to crush the game, and does it ever.

Sorry, but you and viometrix are the real trolls. Don't feed them peeps! Look, I know you are probably both juvenile and all, but some people come here looking for advice and your advice is full of it. Just google search grand theft auto iv pc on neogaf.com or guru3d.com to find out some REAL facts from people with REAL hardware. There is NO HARDWARE on the market capable of running this crappy game at 60+fps with all settings at full, simply not possible. It is broke. The benchmark is meaningless, plus its capped at like 64 fps no matter what (and has vsync off too!). Honestly, some people are looking for real advice and you are throwing them off. This is a badly coded game and I would like to complain about it as much as possible so somebody up above listens. But if people like you insist on trolling that it is all good if you upgrade you hardware (which is impossible at this point) then that just puts those seeking the truth far behind

 

Not a troll, this game is crap. Want prrof? Vsync capped at -5fps under your refresh. Benchmark not consistent with gameplay or fraps and capped at 64fps. Shadows will kill the most powerful hardware out ther even on lowest possible settings. Please youtube a video of your 100fps+ gameplay if you're telling the truth.

[viometrix]

 

Yep and he trolls and tells other people they're lying when the game runs great for them. You're not the 1st and probably not the last. I think he's simply angry that it runs like crap for him, and because it does, doesn't want to believe others have equipment that crushes and totally tames the game. At-least he's building a history of this behavior so eventually folks will just ignore his rants, and likely most other things he has to say. A solid i7 at 3.5+ (4+ prefer), extreme SLI or solid QSLI and plenty of ram will tame the beast and make it god-like smooth at 1920x1200. I wound up building my last dev rig specifically to crush the game, and does it ever.

Sorry, but you and viometrix are the real trolls. Don't feed them peeps! Look, I know you are probably both juvenile and all, but some people come here looking for advice and your advice is full of it. Just google search grand theft auto iv pc on neogaf.com or guru3d.com to find out some REAL facts from people with REAL hardware. There is NO HARDWARE on the market capable of running this crappy game at 60+fps with all settings at full, simply not possible. It is broke. The benchmark is meaningless, plus its capped at like 64 fps no matter what (and has vsync off too!). Honestly, some people are looking for real advice and you are throwing them off. This is a badly coded game and I would like to complain about it as much as possible so somebody up above listens. But if people like you insist on trolling that it is all good if you upgrade you hardware (which is impossible at this point) then that just puts those seeking the truth far behind

 

Not a troll, this game is crap. Want prrof? Vsync capped at -5fps under your refresh. Benchmark not consistent with gameplay or fraps and capped at 64fps. Shadows will kill the most powerful hardware out ther even on lowest possible settings. Please youtube a video of your 100fps+ gameplay if you're telling the truth.

how old are you and just what you do for a living? me ? i own a computer company for the past 20 years, so i think i know more then you about hardware, though i dont claim to be an expert about this game. my hardware which i only have because of what i do runs this game butter smooth with everything maxed. yes i know this game has issues, mine still crashes. but dont talk your theoretical sh*t till you have actually seen it run on every configuration possible. i personally have had the opportunity to test it on several hundred. i am so sick and tired of you so called experts shooting down the experts that have been working with this game since its launch, not some goofy f*ck that did a google search and believes everything they read, instead of diving in and finding solutions to the problems at hand. i have taken the advice of those that have more practical experience with this game then me, and now i have modded and hacked my game to look and perform much better. if we all listened to people like you, many great things such as airplanes, radios, tv, and internet would never have been invented..... so STFU!

 

YOU ARE SOME NEWBIE f*ck THAT JUST JOINED THIS SITE, YOU POST A THREAD ASKING A QUESTION, THEN YOU SHOOT US ALL DOWN FOR ANSWERING!!! i have seen many of you come and go over the time ive been reading and an active member of this site, dude go home.

 

Edit: also you think fps are locked? look at transformers: war for cybertron, we didnt like it locked at 30 fps so we made an unlocker to have it at 60 fps.... this can be done for any game essentially, just need someone that understands it code.

Edited October 4, 2010 by viometrix

[Simulated-AI]

@ unwinding

 

I dont think you are right on this one...

The game could be better optimiced, but not impossible to run that fast.

[Anasterian]

Its smooth for me and i have a stone age PC...well okay maybe not stone age, but its about to become "too old".

 

 

Just answering topic name.

[IronHide-AW]

Like I said, unwinding is very angry because he can't get it running worth a crap on his rig. He is specifically angry with R* for it, and takes it out on everyone else because he only wants R* to see people complaining about performance and not describing hardware that can blast past the problems and run the game properly. He's prime to "accept and want" it to be the case that it simply runs like sh*t for everyone no matter what and regardless of equipment. No-one that I've ever seen has ever said, proposed or hinted in any way that this game is well optimized or runs well on hardware that it should run well on. But that's not the god damn subject nor point of this and other threads asking what it takes to run the game. It takes a f*king BEAST of a machine to run it in full glory at extreme resolution. You not having that type of hardware is not the fault of anyone here.

 

As far as the continued insults? I have to echo the question already posed. I won't "guess" at your age but I'm curious. I'm 39. I've been a software engineer in a professional capacity for 20 years now, even before my military service. Long time technology geek, gaming freak, and expert-level knowledge in a number of areas. And examples of other games that run like dog-sh*t when they shouldn't? Saints Row 2 comes to mind. Example of something that ALL companies should strive to achieve the optimzation of? Just Cause 2. Again, there is no debating that GTA-IV is seriously lacking in raw performance on hardware that really should be able to run it nicely with more candy enabled. But, that debate is (and has been, for a loooong, long time) over. The question is, what does it take to do it? And we have answered it repeatedly. How about a more generic answer? Newegg, some cash, a few brain cells, a little research, enough functioning fingers and vision. And that's about it. Put all that together and you can put together a machine that will tame this game.

 

You have been, and continue to, rant all over the forum at us and tell us we're lying when we describe our hardware and how it owns the game in full glory. You have built and continue to build a reputation of doing this and is why you are now being labeled as a Troll. Relax, take a breath, get over it, and figure out how to get the type of equipment it takes to run the game like you want it to run, or move on and play something else that is better optimized.

 

In any case, none of your ranting is going to make R* do anything about how bad the game runs on your current equipment. There's no money in it for them to spend x time of y number of engineers to try and make the game run better. They got their cash. They might spend a little time on more optimization if the project continues with more expansions they can sell, but beyond that... nope. That means the only solution, sh*tty as it is, depends on the gamer to build a machine to do it instead. Just look at it as yet another investment. The bonus will be it will play games that are well optimized that much better.

 

There's nothing wrong with being annoyed with R* (or any company) for not making a game that runs better on a wider range of equipment, but telling us we're lying because we don't experience the problems you experience due to our hardware is not the path you should take.

[viometrix]

Ironhide are you a transfan, or is that military? and i so agree with everything you said. im 36, own a computer company, and im a gaming junkie. this boy calls me a liar and doesnt realize im on a $19,000 setup, and gta still crashes, but runs really fast otherwise. but i look at it this way, there are real people we can help on these forums, not some arrogant asshole kid with an ego bigger than the baseball bat he has up his ass.

[IronHide-AW]

USAF. Went in late at 26. Always wanted to serve, but already had a career and realized I was going to be to old to do it so I said screw it and just made it happen. Not a walk in the park but I'm glad I served, finished my 4, honorable discharge, continued career etc etc.

 

Had no idea wtf a Transfan was. Went and looked it up. I assume you didn't mean the gay stuff but instead transformers? No on both.

 

As far as this dude attacking us, I've been trying not to insult him in my responses. It's been difficult. I just think he's pissed and really frustrated, can't do anything about it because lack of cash, can't beat-up the R* engineers for not making it playable on his box, so he vents frustration on everyone else. If he's a kid, I see counseling in his future. If he's already an adult, counseling, prison or death. Walking around calling folks liars when they're not is a fine way to get a fist plowed straight through the teeth, to start with anyway.

 

I didn't throw down the cash you did, but I did dump over $5 in it. Includes the i7-975EE, 8g and 2xGTX295 in QSLI. Runs gooood

[Zedo Mann]

If I didn't mind looking at horrible graphics I could get like 20-30 FPS

But I jacked it on up to medium and now it's like 10-15 FPS most of the time.