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Dingdongs

Ground Zero Mosque

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Rown

 

What's sad about all this is that it's almost human nature to show apathy and displeasure to someone who isn't your ethnicity

 

Almost doesn't make it unchangeable. Almost doesn't make it inevitable. What we need are people to get to the root of these issues and correct them. That's right, we need radicals.

 

Rown rampage_ani.gif

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bobgtafan

And they're moving the mosuqe so the pastor won't burn the quaran...f*ck! f*cking backwards assholes! f*ck that pastor.

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sjaak327
I think no.

 

I also think that most muslims would agree with me. 

As someone stated, if a mosque is built there then it just createss more tension between Americans and muslims, so everything will be covered up while the real enemies take your money every day but every one will be too focused on hating muslims because they get told to do so and don't realise it.

I agree with Brownbear.

 

I mean, freedom of religion is great and all, but come on. New Yorkers have damn near turned that site into a shrine. And we already have existing tension with Muslims. That's why they can't ride an airplane without getting those, "Stay away from me you dirty terrorist" looks. How could doing something like this help at all? It'll just cause an uproar. And what good is that?

 

If they want to build a mosque in Manhattan, fine. By all means, nobody but the Mayor's dusty ass is stopping you. But building it so close to ground zero, that just can't end well IMO.

A shrine ? It's skyscrapers housed by major corporations any way you look. This community centre is two blocks from ground zero, obstructed from direct view from ground zero by WTC7, Barclay Vesey Building and some others.

 

This is lower Manhattan we are talking about, they bought two buildings and have gotten permission (which they technically speaking didn't need, 15-0). Some right wing lunatics have taken issue with this, and gotten enough publicity to make it an issue. As usual the most vocal opponents are not even living or working in Lower Manhattan.

 

I sure hope this community centre will indeed be contructed there, as they have every right to be there. All the rest is bollocks.

 

 

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jimmy.
And they're moving the mosuqe so the pastor won't burn the quaran...f*ck! f*cking backwards assholes! f*ck that pastor.

I saw the news reports claiming this too. They are false and have been retracted. There are no plans to move the community center. This was based on a false statement made by the pastor and picked up by the media.

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Typhus

I think that the Mosque/Islamic Centre is rather a good idea. Now, it's true that radical Islam has attacked America and the sense of tragedy and loss will stay with the public for years to come. But the spectre of terrorism will not be nearly as frightening if Americans understand Islam a little better and grasp their beliefs. That's the problem, Islam is seen as foreign, alien, dangerous. This only serves to create divisions in American society.

But if this is built, maybe people can come to better comprehend the beliefs of others, maybe then the mainstream culture and the American-Muslims will be more tightly bonded.

 

What I'm saying is that this could potentially make your society stronger. By showing that you will give everyone an equal right to every faith and every viewpoint. If you turn these people away, hound them, bully them, even as they attempt reconcilliation, you will come to regret it. It will form deep roots of mistrust that will never rot away.

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Tyler

Islam the easiest religion to understand. The word Islam actually means 'Submit' to god, in few words. I'd say they are the closest religion to Christianity you can find, in terms of lifestyle choice and spirituality.

Edited by Unoriginal44

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Typhus

You're right, Unoriginal. Muslims respect Jesus. I have always felt a certain kinship with them because of that.

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Slingaa

I think it's disgusting. If Christians bombed some important Arabic building and put a church ontop of it, they'd probably declare war.

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jimmy.

 

I think it's disgusting. If Christians bombed some important Arabic building and put a church ontop of it, they'd probably declare war.

It's a couple of blocks away. The actual worship space is a small part of the proposal. Your ignorance is disgusting.

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General Goose

Now we all (well, a respectable amount) seem to know that it isn't a mosque and instead an Islamic community centre a couple of blocks away, let's get back to debate. They should build it, regardless of what those ignorant of the building's true description or the extremist far-right political commentators say.

 

It's a relatively nondescript building that I wouldn't describe as resembling anything remotely "Islamic" in terms of architecture, so visitors to Ground Zero won't have to look up at a large distinctive Mosque building. Right now, the site is a ruined, abandoned building (I believe a furniture store or furniture factory) that was damaged by falling wreckage. I believe many on the right who oppose this are in favour of small government and letting private business revitalize poorer/desolate areas (like this particular area), yet they oppose this when it is private business doing just that.

 

Also, I heard that there is already a small, nondescript Islamic prayer room very near at the site that has been there since the WTC opened, with no problems. A new one hardly seems like a massive problem.

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The Unvirginiser

I've read online that a lot of Muslims are calling this the 'Victory Mosque', since Mosques are historically built on Ilamic 'victory' sites. Okay, fair enough if they want to build an Islamic centre, but since this isn't in a heavily populated Muslim area, and as close as they can get to Ground Zero, I can't help but conclude that this is purposly built to antagonise the West. Otherwise, surely out of respect they'd scrap the plans?

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Rown
I've read online that a lot of Muslims are calling this the 'Victory Mosque', since Mosques are historically built on Ilamic 'victory' sites. Okay, fair enough if they want to build an Islamic centre, but since this isn't in a heavily populated Muslim area, and as close as they can get to Ground Zero, I can't help but conclude that this is purposly built to antagonise the West. Otherwise, surely out of respect they'd scrap the plans?

Populated enough to warrant 2 other mosques/prayer centers in Lower Manhattan.

 

I don't think the intent of the building was to antagonize us either. The builders of Park51 (formerly Cordoba House) aren't the ones out on the airwaves talking about it. The whole damned thing has been blown out or proportion to give an edge in an election year at the expense of the American Muslim community.

 

Rown rampage_ani.gif

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E.A.B.
I've read online that a lot of Muslims are calling this the 'Victory Mosque', since Mosques are historically built on Ilamic 'victory' sites.

The problem I have with the whole damn thing is this stupid 'victory' sh*t people keep spouting.

 

It all sounds juvenile. Even IF 50 percent of Muslims were to claim 'ITS A VICTORY SITE YESSSSS', get over it.

 

That's right, get over it. It seems VERY juvenile, to me at least. Unless they're praying for 'death to Amerikkka', then I don't care. Unless they're planning attacks within the mosque, I don't care. Unless the mosque is attracting hatred within its walls and bringing it forth, I don't care.

 

If some Muslim on the street says 'you see that building? It signifies our victory', I really don't give a sh*t. Symbolism is just that, and nothing concrete.

 

It's kinda like burning an American flag. It doesn't actually do jack sh*t and all you did is waste ten bux. If some Muslims want to proclaim victory, let them. It's if they achieve victory that we should be worried about.

 

Here's a tip:no, they haven't.

 

This whole 'victory' thing is claimed by people that will cry because of the supposed bitch-slap. They're probably the same types that follow government regulations for how a flag should be disposed of, shown, raised, etc etc.

 

Hope I got my point across. If you want to insult them, then proclaim 'an American flag=victory' and plant them all over the place. Maybe that way you'll win the imaginary, immature bitch slap fight.

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Rown

I am kicking myself for not remembering this sooner... but you should watch the movie The Siege with Denzel.

 

Good movie. Deals with a hypothetical series of terrorist attacks in NYC. Was made pre-911 but some of it is just haunting.

 

Rown rampage_ani.gif

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jimmy.

 

Now we all (well, a respectable amount) seem to know that it isn't a mosque and instead an Islamic community centre a couple of blocks away, let's get back to debate. They should build it, regardless of what those ignorant of the building's true description or the extremist far-right political commentators say.

 

It's a relatively nondescript building that I wouldn't describe as resembling anything remotely "Islamic" in terms of architecture, so visitors to Ground Zero won't have to look up at a large distinctive Mosque building. Right now, the site is a ruined, abandoned building (I believe a furniture store or furniture factory) that was damaged by falling wreckage. I believe many on the right who oppose this are in favour of small government and letting private business revitalize poorer/desolate areas (like this particular area), yet they oppose this when it is private business doing just that.

 

Also, I heard that there is already a small, nondescript Islamic prayer room very near at the site that has been there since the WTC opened, with no problems. A new one hardly seems like a massive problem.

I agree with your overall point. Just to clarify some facts, as I've been to the neighborhood a bunch, and walked over to the address a few weeks ago to get a good look at the existing structure:

 

To everyone: The site is not abandoned, but certainly outwardly decrepit by Manhattan standards. It was abandoned for 9 years until 2009, as I've read. Anyway, I could only see it's exterior, but the outside could use a good renovation, as you can see by clicking the link. It was a coat factory, and/or store, and iirc the site has been used as a community center for about a year, without major incident. Lower Manhattan in general has been somewhat depressed afaik, and this was an abandoned factory for 9 years until it was bought.

 

user posted image

A recent exterior view

 

I don't understand - is the controversy about the public's sudden awareness about the existence of the community center on the site, or the new proposal for construction at the site, which will encompass a 13-story building? 13-stories, which is, by the way, at least a little bit smaller than the buildings between it and the WTC site, as far as one can tell. It is also a low height for the dense neighborhood it's in, especially when compared to the 1776-foot tall Freedom Tower, which is currently being constructed adjacent to/on "Ground Zero", and the 57-story building about a block down the street. It won't be visible from "Ground Zero"/the new WTC site, as one must go many floors up in any building that will be constructed on the site to see it, as, at it's current height, it will be blocked in sight by buildings of the same/higher height.

 

It's in the middle of the block. Face it, you can walk there in maybe a minute from the WTC site, but it's not on it, or visible from it, or in any way a part of it.

user posted image

 

This whole campaign relies on (a) people's misinformation about the situation, and Muslims in general, and (b) other people's fear of these misinformed people lashing out. The whole character assasination of Imam Rauf is such a waste of time, and should not be an issue in building the building.

 

So should the whole group just pack up and leave, and get the boot out of the neighborhood, or should they just not build a new building? If we're going to have a "sensitivity-with-regards-to-proximity police", then I think we should also investigate these kinds of things, too:

 

Mounting Opposition To New York Islamic Center

Claiming the neighborhood where the Twin Towers once stood is sacred ground, radical conservative groups are spearheading opposition to the construction of a nearby Muslim community center, a facility that would include a swimming pool and a 9/11 memorial and be located more than two blocks from the attack site. Here are some other projects currently facing controversy:

 

New York—New Citibank ATM vestibule just two blocks from site of devastating financial collapse

Elizabeth, NJ—Bed, Bath, and Beyond on sacred IKEA grounds

Pearl Harbor, HI—P.F. Chang's location a reasonable cab ride away from the U.S.S. Arizona Memorial

Philadelphia—British consulate on hard-won U.S. soil

Terre Haute, IN—Frito-Lay display planned for Baesler's Market is an affront to the fact that Terre Haute was the original U.S. test market for Pringles

Culver City, CA—Comedy club built next to the site where that disaster Grown Ups was filmed

Provincetown, MA—Organic artisan cheese stand set up next to raw cashew cheese booth at farmer's market

Lakehurst, NJ—Balloon store only three miles from site of Hindenburg crash

Olathe, KS—Barnes & Noble

 

 

I've read online that a lot of Muslims are calling this the 'Victory Mosque', since Mosques are historically built on Ilamic 'victory' sites. Okay, fair enough if they want to build an Islamic centre, but since this isn't in a heavily populated Muslim area, and as close as they can get to Ground Zero, I can't help but conclude that this is purposly built to antagonise the West. Otherwise, surely out of respect they'd scrap the plans?

 

Now, let's be very clear: Did you hear Muslims call it this, or did you hear only right-wing pundits/activists call it this, and attribute it to Muslims? I've only heard the latter.

Edited by jimmy.

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General Goose

Thank you for clarifying my facts, I didn't remember them that well. This whole thing is completely ridiculous and gets more so as time goes on. People are, unfortunately, so ignorant, not just in America but worldwide. The comments on Facebook I've seen, urgh.

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Alicam7

removed 22/01/2018

Edited by Alicam7

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sivispacem
I think it's terrible that they're building a mosque there.

Hundreds of people died there, and it was caused by muslim terrorists.

In fact, I think it's utterly disgusting.

Then you clearly didn't read the thread properly, or, for that matter, think before you typed.

1) It's not at ground zero, it's quite a distance away.

2) Islamic extremists are completely different from your average Muslim.

3) The proposed site has already been used as an Islamic centre for a while now, they just wish to demolish the old building and replace it with a new one.

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Alicam7

removed 22/01/2018

Edited by Alicam7

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sivispacem
I think it's terrible that they're building a mosque there.

Hundreds of people died there, and it was caused by muslim terrorists.

In fact, I think it's utterly disgusting.

Then you clearly didn't read the thread properly, or, for that matter, think before you typed.

1) It's not at ground zero, it's quite a distance away.

2) Islamic extremists are completely different from your average Muslim.

3) The proposed site has already been used as an Islamic centre for a while now, they just wish to demolish the old building and replace it with a new one.

Look - that's my opinion, I think it's disgusting, so, next time, don't judge my opinion.

You're entitled to you oppinion, the same way that I'm entitled to tell you that it's il-informed.

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Emhyr
I think it's terrible that they're building a mosque there.

Hundreds of people died there, and it was caused by muslim terrorists.

In fact, I think it's utterly disgusting.

Then you clearly didn't read the thread properly, or, for that matter, think before you typed.

1) It's not at ground zero, it's quite a distance away.

2) Islamic extremists are completely different from your average Muslim.

3) The proposed site has already been used as an Islamic centre for a while now, they just wish to demolish the old building and replace it with a new one.

Look - that's my opinion, I think it's disgusting, so, next time, don't judge my opinion.

You hater! moto_whistle.gif

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General Goose
I think it's terrible that they're building a mosque there.

Hundreds of people died there, and it was caused by muslim terrorists.

In fact, I think it's utterly disgusting.

Then you clearly didn't read the thread properly, or, for that matter, think before you typed.

1) It's not at ground zero, it's quite a distance away.

2) Islamic extremists are completely different from your average Muslim.

3) The proposed site has already been used as an Islamic centre for a while now, they just wish to demolish the old building and replace it with a new one.

Look - that's my opinion, I think it's disgusting, so, next time, don't judge my opinion.

If you dislike people disagreeing with your opinions, you shouldn't come into a forum entitled Debates & Discussion and post them. The whole point of this forum is that people disagree with the opinions of others.

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d0mm2k8

 

Look - that's my opinion, I think it's disgusting, so, next time, don't judge my opinion.

In my opinion, your opinion sucks.

Opinions aren't untouchable dozingoff.gif

 

I was in New York around the time this was kicking off; Fox News is the stupidest drivel I have ever come across, saying things such as 'This Mosque is a threat to our country!'.

 

How is this endangering America? Any right wings want to give their opinion?

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sivispacem
Any right wings want to give their opinion?

I wouldn't say I'm right wing in the 'Merkin sense, but I do place state security over human rights, for instance.

I can catagorically say, without a single shadow of doubt, that the only aspect of this entire debate that is likely to threaten US security is the right-wing media's complete own-goal regarding the entire issue. It's their poorly-formed and badly-presented misconceptions of non-Christian religions in the US that provokes segregation between those of differing religious and cultural backgrounds.

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Skins

They are even trying to expand a mosque where I used to live in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. But the people in the south are mostly idiots. They even started to burn some of the equipment. Link.

 

And yeah, Fox News is horrible, and is what most dumb redneck southern people watch.

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MikeWh

15 extremists, not 2.5million muslims. That's what we were told on 7/7. At the end of the day, it is wrong to penalise a group due to the actions of a few.

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