Should GTA V have more challenging AI?

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

As fun as getting into a firefight in GTA 4 is, I felt that something was missing. For the most part I felt that the enemy AI outside of missions specifically (but not limited to them) were pretty stupid. Generally speaking, AI does tend to be limited in combat tactics but in GTA games they are dumber than most. (especially cops) Whenever I rampage to get a 6 star wanted level the best strategy I use is to "bottleneck" them in a one way alley or go to the bathroom in Middle park and bottleneck them there. It's amusing to see AI Cops fall for it. No one in their right mind would walk into such a kill zone. However that's not my main issue.

 

My main issue with AI is that they aren't programmed to force me out of my dug in position with: grenades/grenade launchers/shoulder fired weapons/tear gas/etc. Even in scripted mission there were only a few scripted moments when RPGs and grenades were used against you. In those examples there used incompetently. What's the deal? I can understand that resolution issues can make grenades thrown/launched at you difficult to spot. Grenade danger indicators are a perfect remedy since it works so well in other games. (Uncharted 2 is a good example) Generally, I would love to see criminals and cops (or Military/PMCs) use explosive ordinance, mounted machine guns and non-lethal countermeasure on you during gameplay. (on and off missions)

 

I'm curious if anybody else would like to see more challenging AI.

[gta9414]

yes definetly, it is way too easy to get away or to kill the cops/SWAT, etc

[Kwandilibro]

That sounds like more of a hassle. The cops were annoying enough in IV, why add fire to the flames?

 

I want cops to actually chase us, rather than bombarding us with 20,000 officers.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

That sounds like more of a hassle. The cops were annoying enough in IV, why add fire to the flames?

 

I want cops to actually chase us, rather than bombarding us with 20,000 officers.

Really? They were a hassle? If I was really careless then I could die quickly dealing with them. Otherwise, I run circles around them easily. I'm a glutton for punishment so I loved to be challenged. If they are so annoying just bottleneck them and see how stupid they are. They run willingly into my traps wave after wave. All I would like to see them do is try to flush me out of cover.

[Kwandilibro]

Well, in buildings, they were pretty easy to deal with. But when you're outside, there's so many of them. The damn cars spawn everywhere I look!

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Well, in buildings, they were pretty easy to deal with. But when you're outside, there's so many of them. The damn cars spawn everywhere I look!

Go to the alley by the hospital in Algonquin near the "Grand Central Terminal". It's one of the few one-way alleys with some decent cover. It's literally like shooting fish in a barrel. If you want to spice things up then you can use some sticky bombs as booby trap IEDs and give the cops a really hard time. It's all about picking the battle ground. I only run and gun when have to and run along alleyways to avoid being flanked.

 

Off topic: who's a$$ is that on your avatar. It's hypnotic!

[Kwandilibro]

Well, in buildings, they were pretty easy to deal with. But when you're outside, there's so many of them. The damn cars spawn everywhere I look!

Go to the alley by the hospital in Algonquin near the "Grand Central Terminal". It's one of the few one-way alleys with some decent cover. It's literally like shooting fish in a barrel. If you want to spice things up then you can use some sticky bombs as booby trap IEDs and give the cops a really hard time. It's all about picking the battle ground. I only run and gun when have to and run along alleyways to avoid being flanked.

 

Off topic: who's a$$ is that on your avatar. It's hypnotic!

Oh, my favorite shootout spot is at that strip club in Bohan. That and the hospital in Broker. Gunfights are so easy in there.

 

Of course, in TBoGT, I just use the explosive shotgun and that other rifle(I don't know what it's called, nor do I care). Instant success.

 

Now as for that ass, well, I don't know who that is. Probably a pornstar. But yes, it is wonderful. Nice to just stare at for a while. I see I made a wonderful choice of avatar.....

[spaceeinstein]

Not having the ability to throw grenades doesn't make them stupid. It makes them handicapped because they aren't provided one. Stupid would be like not being able to aim with a grenade when provided one. I wouldn't like the LCPD having grenades or explosives. Maybe let the NOOSE have them but it can become so annoying if you let them have the ability to abuse the use of grenades. Having 10 cops throwing grenades and shooting rockets at me at the same time is efficient for them but less fun for me. I would rather have them siphon their way through a choke point. It's more fun that way.

Edited August 3, 2010 by spaceeinstein

[A White CJ]

The Gang Wars in GTA: SA was a huge letdown due to AI. The AI gangs never fought each other, very rarely fought me, and was horrible on the battlefield. It was still a huge challenge, but that was due to having 12 guys with AK-47s charge at me in one clump. This allowed me to easily cut them down with a Vulcan, though.

 

I think the AI should use actual tactics, like flanking and setting up ambushes.

[xNewtype Acex]

Not having the ability to throw grenades doesn't make them stupid. It makes them handicapped because they aren't provided one. Stupid would be like not being able to aim with a grenade when provided one. I wouldn't like the LCPD having grenades or explosives. Maybe let the NOOSE have them but it can become so annoying if you let them have the ability to abuse the use of grenades. Having 10 cops throwing grenades and shooting rockets at me at the same time is efficient for them but less fun for me. I would rather have them siphon their way through a choke point. It's more fun that way.

I guess the normal cops wouldn't be armed with grenades, but let's say N.O.O.S.E. members work in squads, leader + squad members, you could be able to tell the leader because he has a special vest/helmet/whatever, every x time they'll throw tear gas, if you keep on fighting back they'll start chucking grenades.

[meson1]

 

I think the AI should use actual tactics, like flanking and setting up ambushes.

The AI in IV does try to flank you (in fact I think it did in SA too; just not very well).

 

As for ambushes, I'm not sure what you mean. Certain missions are scripted so that you are ambushed. The equivalent police tactic is to set up a road block, usually at bridges and tunnels. Ambushes can be a bit difficult to do when you are shown the enemy on your radar.

 

No doubt the AI will improve as such algorithms are improved. But a lot of you guys in this thread are expert players that are looking to be challenged by a more difficult game.

 

The problem is that the nature of GTA games are such that novices have to be able to play them too. Rockstar have a policy of not including a difficulty level selection feature. Instead, they try to set up the missions in such a way that each mission can generally be completed by your average player within a couple of attempts (technical issues not withstanding). Also (and obviously I suppose) they gradually increase the difficulty of the missions as you progress through the game and the player becomes used to the various features, tactics and techniques. I can't see Rockstar changing this approach.

Edited August 4, 2010 by meson1

[Official General]

 

The Gang Wars in GTA: SA was a huge letdown due to AI. The AI gangs never fought each other, very rarely fought me, and was horrible on the battlefield. It was still a huge challenge, but that was due to having 12 guys with AK-47s charge at me in one clump. This allowed me to easily cut them down with a Vulcan, though.

 

I think the AI should use actual tactics, like flanking and setting up ambushes.

@ A White CJ - I dont know what you are talking about man. Which GTA: San Andreas did you play? It certainly was not the one that I played. When I played the PS2 version of GTA: SA, I saw AI or NPC gangs fighting each other, pretty much all the time. If you drive around long enough where the borders of different gang territories meet, you will certainly see rival gangs shoot it out in gunfights most of the time. For instance there is an area in downtown Los Santos where the Varrios Los Aztecas gang members hangout and nearby the border lining the Balla's gang territory - around this location gunfights between Aztecas gang members and Ballas gang members break out all the time. It's the same anywhere in Los Santos, where a district has rival gangs who have territories that border each other, which they always do. I think you need to play it again. I enjoyed the gang wars in GTA: SA and I thought they were good for what it was, considering this is the last-gen PS2-era we are talking about here.

 

However I can agree with you if you are talking about the San Fierro and Las Venturas part. The gangs in San Fierro don't really seem to fight each other, maybe its because its a more peaceful city and also because their territories are too far apart to ignite regular violent confrontations or conflict. I'm sure Rockstar clearly intended Las Ventura to be a city that is not rife with crime and shootings and lacking street gangs (even though Las Vegas in real-life does have those things in some parts).

 

I think the next GTA needs to be a bit more like Red Dead Redemption. I wanna see more random actions and crimes being committed by NPCs and I wanna see NPC criminals and gang members on the streets having gunfights or brawls without you as the player being invloved. This actually happened a lot more often in GTA Vice City and San Andreas.

 

I have to agree with Kwandilibro - the police in GTA 4 are annoying and difficult sometimes as they are now. They just all come at once and spawn out of nowhere and they agressively pursue you for even just 2 stars! Police should only be able to find you more easily when they actually see you. Not simply when you commit even a minor crime they find you instantly and greet you with a barrage of shots.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Official General

[Cousin!ItIsYourCousin!]

The worst thing is the most stupid character is always the one we are playing with our intelligence lol

[Dnero]

If the enemy AI is smarter and maybe think or play like us, it will be awesome and challenging. The bad thing is, you won't probably see any funny retarded moments with your regular AIs...

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Not having the ability to throw grenades doesn't make them stupid. It makes them handicapped because they aren't provided one. Stupid would be like not being able to aim with a grenade when provided one. I wouldn't like the LCPD having grenades or explosives. Maybe let the NOOSE have them but it can become so annoying if you let them have the ability to abuse the use of grenades. Having 10 cops throwing grenades and shooting rockets at me at the same time is efficient for them but less fun for me. I would rather have them siphon their way through a choke point. It's more fun that way.

I don't recall in my OP stating the AI not using grenades as an example of their stupidity, except in the few example in the game when they do. In those cases they are easily avoidable. An example of their stupidity would be walking into a bottleneck when your target has a machine gun. The smart practical thing to do is to flush them out of cover with explosives or other measures. (flamethrowers)

 

I agree that cops shouldn't have grenades but riot police and NOOSE should have tear gas and other non-lethal weapons. To me It's more fun to be challenged by AI. I actually like be forced to change my tactics on the fly. Bottlenecking stupid cops actually loses it's fun after a while since I rarely die. To actually make a rampage more exiting and challenging I get out of cover and move between my ambush spots throughout the city. Ease bores me.

[ldee]

Cheers on this.

 

IMO, less mass, more intelligence.

 

GTAs have always been dozens of cops trying to gun you down mindlessly, it'll be nice to go in the direction of realism with not an ant-army of law enforcers, but a good handful of strategic AI.

[A White CJ]

The Gang Wars in GTA: SA was a huge letdown due to AI. The AI gangs never fought each other, very rarely fought me, and was horrible on the battlefield. It was still a huge challenge, but that was due to having 12 guys with AK-47s charge at me in one clump. This allowed me to easily cut them down with a Vulcan, though.

 

I think the AI should use actual tactics, like flanking and setting up ambushes.

@ A White CJ - I dont know what you are talking about man. Which GTA: San Andreas did you play? It certainly was not the one that I played. When I played the PS2 version of GTA: SA, I saw AI or NPC gangs fighting each other, pretty much all the time. If you drive around long enough where the borders of different gang territories meet, you will certainly see rival gangs shoot it out in gunfights most of the time. For instance there is an area in downtown Los Santos where the Varrios Los Aztecas gang members hangout and nearby the border lining the Balla's gang territory - around this location gunfights between Aztecas gang members and Ballas gang members break out all the time. It's the same anywhere in Los Santos, where a district has rival gangs who have territories that border each other, which they always do. I think you need to play it again. I enjoyed the gang wars in GTA: SA and I thought they were good for what it was, considering this is the last-gen PS2-era we are talking about here.

 

However I can agree with you if you are talking about the San Fierro and Las Venturas part. The gangs in San Fierro don't really seem to fight each other, maybe its because its a more peaceful city and also because their territories are too far apart to ignite regular violent confrontations or conflict. I'm sure Rockstar clearly intended Las Ventura to be a city that is not rife with crime and shootings and lacking street gangs (even though Las Vegas in real-life does have those things in some parts).

 

I think the next GTA needs to be a bit more like Red Dead Redemption. I wanna see more random actions and crimes being committed by NPCs and I wanna see NPC criminals and gang members on the streets having gunfights or brawls without you as the player being invloved. This actually happened a lot more often in GTA Vice City and San Andreas.

 

I have to agree with Kwandilibro - the police in GTA 4 are annoying and difficult sometimes as they are now. They just all come at once and spawn out of nowhere and they agressively pursue you for even just 2 stars! Pokice should only be able to find you more easily when they actually see you. Not simply when you commit even a minor crime they find you instantly and greet you with a barrage of shots.

Of course they fight each other. I'm referring to the Gang Wars, e.g. trying to take over each other's territory. It would be nice to see them try and conquer each other's land.

 

This doesn't having anything to do with AI, but it also would have been nice to have Gang Wars in all of the state: Rifa, Loco, and Triad territories in San Fierro, Mafia and Triads in Venturas, rednecks in the small towns....

[Mr.Moffat]

To be fair I found the AI in IV fine. If you did;nt use cover propely you could get cut down fairly easy.

 

 

The thing I want to see improved in terms of AI is car and Helicopters. Even on high wanted levels they could barley keep up, all you had to do was turn a corner or just drive quickly. This needs to be improved!

 

another thing would be to simply make the noose teams stay together. when they attck you as a team they can be quite dangerous(same for FIB)

 

Maybe even have more swat members in their vans, eg four in back and two in front?

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

To be fair I found the AI in IV fine. If you did;nt use cover propely you could get cut down fairly easy.

 

 

The thing I want to see improved in terms of AI is car and Helicopters. Even on high wanted levels they could barley keep up, all you had to do was turn a corner or just drive quickly. This needs to be improved!

 

another thing would be to simply make the noose teams stay together. when they attck you as a team they can be quite dangerous(same for FIB)

 

Maybe even have more swat members in their vans, eg four in back and two in front?

I'e survived being out of cover with a 6 star wanted level. It's all about where you pick your battles and staying mobile. I find that being stationary and being out in the open is the only time that I have been cut down. (even with body armor)

 

I'll agree with what you said about improving AI with respect to vehicles. I'll that I would like to see NOOSE teams fast rope from helicopters to your position. Another strategy I tend to use is landing a copter on a tall building (where they can't reach me) and start sniping them. I'd like them to try to dislodge me.

[Mr.Moffat]

Riot sheilds and spike strips might help add to the challange.

[A White CJ]

To be fair I found the AI in IV fine. If you did;nt use cover propely you could get cut down fairly easy.

 

 

The thing I want to see improved in terms of AI is car and Helicopters. Even on high wanted levels they could barley keep up, all you had to do was turn a corner or just drive quickly. This needs to be improved!

 

another thing would be to simply make the noose teams stay together. when they attck you as a team they can be quite dangerous(same for FIB)

 

Maybe even have more swat members in their vans, eg four in back and two in front?

I'e survived being out of cover with a 6 star wanted level. It's all about where you pick your battles and staying mobile. I find that being stationary and being out in the open is the only time that I have been cut down. (even with body armor)

 

I'll agree with what you said about improving AI with respect to vehicles. I'll that I would like to see NOOSE teams fast rope from helicopters to your position. Another strategy I tend to use is landing a copter on a tall building (where they can't reach me) and start sniping them. I'd like them to try to dislodge me.

I've never survived more than a few seconds past Five Stars, except for one time in Las Venturas when, for some reason, SWAT and FBI never showed up: only police.

[Official General]

 

The Gang Wars in GTA: SA was a huge letdown due to AI. The AI gangs never fought each other, very rarely fought me, and was horrible on the battlefield. It was still a huge challenge, but that was due to having 12 guys with AK-47s charge at me in one clump. This allowed me to easily cut them down with a Vulcan, though.

 

I think the AI should use actual tactics, like flanking and setting up ambushes.

@ A White CJ - I dont know what you are talking about man. Which GTA: San Andreas did you play? It certainly was not the one that I played. When I played the PS2 version of GTA: SA, I saw AI or NPC gangs fighting each other, pretty much all the time. If you drive around long enough where the borders of different gang territories meet, you will certainly see rival gangs shoot it out in gunfights most of the time. For instance there is an area in downtown Los Santos where the Varrios Los Aztecas gang members hangout and nearby the border lining the Balla's gang territory - around this location gunfights between Aztecas gang members and Ballas gang members break out all the time. It's the same anywhere in Los Santos, where a district has rival gangs who have territories that border each other, which they always do. I think you need to play it again. I enjoyed the gang wars in GTA: SA and I thought they were good for what it was, considering this is the last-gen PS2-era we are talking about here.

 

However I can agree with you if you are talking about the San Fierro and Las Venturas part. The gangs in San Fierro don't really seem to fight each other, maybe its because its a more peaceful city and also because their territories are too far apart to ignite regular violent confrontations or conflict. I'm sure Rockstar clearly intended Las Ventura to be a city that is not rife with crime and shootings and lacking street gangs (even though Las Vegas in real-life does have those things in some parts).

 

I think the next GTA needs to be a bit more like Red Dead Redemption. I wanna see more random actions and crimes being committed by NPCs and I wanna see NPC criminals and gang members on the streets having gunfights or brawls without you as the player being invloved. This actually happened a lot more often in GTA Vice City and San Andreas.

 

I have to agree with Kwandilibro - the police in GTA 4 are annoying and difficult sometimes as they are now. They just all come at once and spawn out of nowhere and they agressively pursue you for even just 2 stars! Pokice should only be able to find you more easily when they actually see you. Not simply when you commit even a minor crime they find you instantly and greet you with a barrage of shots.

Of course they fight each other. I'm referring to the Gang Wars, e.g. trying to take over each other's territory. It would be nice to see them try and conquer each other's land.

 

This doesn't having anything to do with AI, but it also would have been nice to have Gang Wars in all of the state: Rifa, Loco, and Triad territories in San Fierro, Mafia and Triads in Venturas, rednecks in the small towns....

What are you talking about? Read what you said in your first statement again - you stated that in GTA SA :

 

" the AI gangs very rarely fought each other "

 

You also said:

 

" And they very rarely fought me "

 

And from my experience playing GTA: San Andreas, I'm telling you that your wrong there. The AI gangs DO fight each other like I've said already. And the gangs do fight you whenever they see you, in fact all the time. There were numerous times I'd come out of hospital in Los Santos after getting hit and within seconds I'd be surrounded by rival Balla gang members blasting shots at me or giving me a good beating, even before I've left the hospital grounds!

 

If you were really talking about the gang's taking over each other's territory then you certainly did not make that clear enough. Well the AI/NPC gangs do try and take over your territory which is was matters more in the game, as that gives you the incentive to fight them, with help from your own gang as part of the gameplay. AI gangs dont really need to take over each other's territory in the game - the fact that they have gunfights when they see each other is good enough. Thats a gang war in itself, doesnt matter who wins, that more concerns the AI gangs themeselves. You as CJ should only be concerned with expanding the territory of your own gang, the Grove Street Families, which you can do of course, by fighting gang wars with rival gangs in the game.

 

I really dont see what your complaint is on that one.

 

I do agree with you on one thing that you said though - there should have had the gang war feature in San Fierro and Las Venturas and the small towns. It would have been nice to have different arenas of gang warfare and different territories to take over.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Official General

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

To be fair I found the AI in IV fine. If you did;nt use cover propely you could get cut down fairly easy.

 

 

The thing I want to see improved in terms of AI is car and Helicopters. Even on high wanted levels they could barley keep up, all you had to do was turn a corner or just drive quickly. This needs to be improved!

 

another thing would be to simply make the noose teams stay together. when they attck you as a team they can be quite dangerous(same for FIB)

 

Maybe even have more swat members in their vans, eg four in back and two in front?

I'e survived being out of cover with a 6 star wanted level. It's all about where you pick your battles and staying mobile. I find that being stationary and being out in the open is the only time that I have been cut down. (even with body armor)

 

I'll agree with what you said about improving AI with respect to vehicles. I'll that I would like to see NOOSE teams fast rope from helicopters to your position. Another strategy I tend to use is landing a copter on a tall building (where they can't reach me) and start sniping them. I'd like them to try to dislodge me.

I've never survived more than a few seconds past Five Stars, except for one time in Las Venturas when, for some reason, SWAT and FBI never showed up: only police.

Well GTA SA and the III era games had a lot of issues with combat. (targeting and taking cover were my biggest issues) I rarely rampage on foot in SA since the controls frustrate me. It's one of the few reasons why I hated third person gaming on previous gen consoles. IV smoothed it all out to a point that combat and rampaging is fun. The problem is that the AI is still pretty stupid. It's possible to survive/escape 5 and 6 star wanted levels. Using helicopters and subway tunnels as escape measures are very effective.