The Unvirginiser Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hello, haven't been about for a while - hope everybody's doing okay. If there was an omnipotent being, could it make a rock so big that it couldn't lift it? If it could, then it can't be omnipotent, if it can't, then it's another thingi t can't do, so how can it be omnipotent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Interesting indeed, but I'll see your Paradox and Raise you another! What if the Omnipotent being went back in time and killed his grandfather, then he would have never existed. But, if he never existed then his grandfather would still be alive. OR WOULD HE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uNi Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Doesn't it need to happen only once? If he already exists is he really going to like disappear once the grandfather dies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 There is also the one with omnipotent being building a wall so high that it couldn't jump over it. There are many examples of why there is no such thing as omnipotent being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta187 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) I feel the laws of time and space supercede even an ethereal being's decision, that even within certain divine power you would probably still have to work within preset guidelines. Whether you set those for yourself or they simply are is well set aside. At the moment the only one absolute believers of a higher being suscribe to is "free will", in that a creator will not force our hand to any one action or emotion so there's your metaphorical rock, if you will. Edited July 30, 2010 by meta187 ~ Studio: Q-13 Lounge / Q:13 Warrior Tunes / Interweb Chex Mix, yo.~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyn Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Doesn't it need to happen only once? If he already exists is he really going to like disappear once the grandfather dies? No, a persons timeline will keep going forward. If he goes back in time and kills his grandfather it will be an alternate dimension type deal. Past hims grandfather, not his grandfather if I'm making any sense. SRS Incorporated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uNi Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I see where you're getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xboxless Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 What if he goes back in time and has sex with his hot grandmother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyn Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 What if he goes back in time and has sex with his hot grandmother? You watch too much Futurama, or not enough...yea not enough. Nobody can watch too much. SRS Incorporated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 What if an Omnipotent Creates another Omnipotent being that can only serve the first Omnipotent? The Second is indeed Omnipotent, as the Creator Omnipotent tells him that he is. Think that one through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyn Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Thinking it through will only get us so far as our imagination is very limited and our perception of possibility is bound by laws of physics in our Universe. Who knows what utterly mind bending ways other universes work. A good one is to think of if our Universe is indeed part of a multiverse, what is the multiverse in? Nothingness is an incredibly hard concept to grasp. Edit: I think I misread your last post a bit, ah well. SRS Incorporated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Thinking it through will only get us so far as our imagination is very limited and our perception of possibility is bound by laws of physics in our Universe. Who knows what utterly mind bending ways other universes work. A good one is to think of if our Universe is indeed part of a multiverse, what is the multiverse in? Nothingness is an incredibly hard concept to grasp. That is a conversation I can get into alright, reality. Of course, look at the nihilist's (People who are extremely pessimistic about reality) point of view. What if This is the only Universe? Then truly we are an unjust being until we can solve our own paradoxes and such. All questions can be answered in time, so Paradoxes shall also be answered, unless they were purposely thought of in our minds for some reason. But if they weren't, then that brings the question 'Why would our minds be able to comprehend the question but not the answer' into the debate. Truly a meta physicist question it would only be examined at be another paradox. Is it another Paradox? In a way, unless it is possible to actually comprehend the example's question, which is comprehending the comprehensibleness of the actual problem. If infinity isn't something we can count to, then what is it? A blanket term excuse, coined to make it easier to get out of answering something relating to mathematics that would end up being a paradoxical equation. That is the problem here, we don't have an 'infinity' for reality. We cannot easily accept the unknown to stay unknown for our time. Which is just, because why should I be able to ponder something like another Universe paralleled to this one, but not be able to actually know? Why should I be able to wonder if god is real, but not be able to know until I die and am either absolved or punished for what I have done? But I ramble, does anyone else have a take on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Powers Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 the omnipotent being f*cked are mothers meaning were all related motherf*ckers and sister f*ckers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kapone Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 A hundred years ago, people wondered if either a chicken or an egg came first. Now, we're worrying about omnipotent beings creating rocks and building walls. What's next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 A hundred years ago, people wondered if either a chicken or an egg came first. Now, we're worrying about omnipotent beings creating rocks and building walls. What's next? Did Omnipotent beings create first, the chicken or the rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Thinking it through will only get us so far as our imagination is very limited and our perception of possibility is bound by laws of physics in our Universe. Who knows what utterly mind bending ways other universes work. A good one is to think of if our Universe is indeed part of a multiverse, what is the multiverse in? Nothingness is an incredibly hard concept to grasp. That is a conversation I can get into alright, reality. Of course, look at the nihilist's (People who are extremely pessimistic about reality) point of view. What if This is the only Universe? Then truly we are an unjust being until we can solve our own paradoxes and such. All questions can be answered in time, so Paradoxes shall also be answered, unless they were purposely thought of in our minds for some reason. But if they weren't, then that brings the question 'Why would our minds be able to comprehend the question but not the answer' into the debate. Truly a meta physicist question it would only be examined at be another paradox. Is it another Paradox? In a way, unless it is possible to actually comprehend the example's question, which is comprehending the comprehensibleness of the actual problem. If infinity isn't something we can count to, then what is it? A blanket term excuse, coined to make it easier to get out of answering something relating to mathematics that would end up being a paradoxical equation. That is the problem here, we don't have an 'infinity' for reality. We cannot easily accept the unknown to stay unknown for our time. Which is just, because why should I be able to ponder something like another Universe paralleled to this one, but not be able to actually know? Why should I be able to wonder if god is real, but not be able to know until I die and am either absolved or punished for what I have done? But I ramble, does anyone else have a take on this? Nihilism isn't being pessimistic, but rather the belief that nothing really matters. It can be seen as pessimistic by some I understand, but I think it's liberating; if nothing you do you really matters then you can do whatever the f*ck you want. Similarly, the point of a paradox is that it can't be answered, it isn't a question but rather a contradiction in logic. It's not something that we'll eventually figure out because there isn't anything to figure out. Paradoxes such as this Omnipotence Paradox aren't really looking for an answer but just looking to make you think, like here it's designed to make you doubt your belief in God if you have one to start with that is. As for infinity, it is a very real concept. It isn't a number, hence not being able to count to it, but rather a state of being. Some things literally do go on forever, you can think of it in terms like the universe (which, granted, may or may not be true) or theoretically (e.g. numbers like Pi do, in fact, go on forever). My take on this paradox? Pretty effective way to give a believer a bit of doubt about their chosen deity,or at least getting them to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_zoo Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Doesn't it need to happen only once? If he already exists is he really going to like disappear once the grandfather dies? No, a persons timeline will keep going forward. If he goes back in time and kills his grandfather it will be an alternate dimension type deal. Past hims grandfather, not his grandfather if I'm making any sense. Time travel is not even possible (not in the way science fiction says anyway) so the paradox doesnt really make sense. As far as I was led to believe, if you travel at the speed of light time passes slower than someone who is stationary that means you will age alot slower than the stationary guy. You havent travelled back in time its just passed slower. Even if you did travel back in time wouldnt space itself travel also since they are interwoven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) That paradox doesn't disprove God's omnipotence. Hinduism states that everything is a part of God (Advaita). Therefore it is impossible for anything to be superior to God. I'm speaking on Hinduism only btw. Edited August 26, 2010 by Warlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I don't see it neither. If God has infinite strength, than any sum of weight can be lifted surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I don't see it neither. If God has infinite strength, than any sum of weight can be lifted surely? I was going to mention that in my original post, but you're right. The paradox doesn't take into account the infinite nature of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyn Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I don't see it neither. If God has infinite strength, than any sum of weight can be lifted surely? But then that means there are things God cannot do, like creating something so big he can not lift it. He is a limited being. SRS Incorporated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 As God is an infinite being, even the object that is considered 'big' is inferior to God. That is, the object is finite while God is not, as for it to be considered 'big' it has to be finite. So it doesn't matter how big the object is, God will still be able to 'lift' it. Basically, the nature of God cannot be explained by human understanding such as language, science, etc as God is simply beyond all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Well if he is all powerful surely he can create an object that has infinite weight? If he can't then he isn't omnipotent. This is pretty much the crux of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meta187 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 If you consider all created things an extension of a God, then the rock in question is simply an extension of the creator as all things under him. The rock is God, as it was produced by him any movement or lack there of is simply happenstance from said perspective, thus providing the previously mentioned guideline. Matter in it's physical form still has to adhere to certain laws of existence, a spiritual being transcends those boundaries and moves directly through physical matter to create a desired result.The perimeters within the intended question are much broader than the scope of the paradox. You are basically asking if an Omnipotent being can create something to defeat himself but in creating any one thing it becomes him, thus nullifying the comparison. ~ Studio: Q-13 Lounge / Q:13 Warrior Tunes / Interweb Chex Mix, yo.~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) Meta hit the nail on the head right there. Like I said before, that is the belief in Hinduism as well. That everything is God and therefore the paradox doesn't disprove the omnipotence of God. Edited August 26, 2010 by Warlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldee Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Great. Another thread on GTAF that divides by zero. Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage1120 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 All I see in that picture is Slamman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapapote Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 All I see in that picture is Slamman Yeah.. What on hell is that picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyn Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 All I see in that picture is Slamman Yeah.. What on hell is that picture? If you stare at the dots in the middle of the picture for a minute or so and then blink really fast over and over you will see Jesus. Look at the ceiling or something blank to see it better. SRS Incorporated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saggy Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 If the Big Bang created the universe out of a cloud of dust and gas, where did the dust and gas come from? QUOTE (K^2) ...not only is it legal for you to go around with a concealed penis, it requires absolutely no registration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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