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Sanjeem

"Russian" Organized crime

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Sanjeem

I bring this Debate up, because i would like to make a fair point, on how Westeners, Make up a name for a certain or similar group, and Label all other Similar groups as the same Label. For Example, crime wise...

 

Italian Organized crime is bassicly, Italian Organized crime, Theres no Major Spanish organized crime group in spain, no Major organized crime group in France, But there is Italy, thats why it's called Italian Organized crime.

 

Same Goes to Albanian, Japanese, Triads...They all resemble their ethnicities well...

 

Now heres what my point is, Bassicly what the Western world does is, especially Americans, is that they hear about Georgian Organized crime, Chechen organized crime, Armenian, Ukrainian crime, bassicly when they hear about former Soviet states, they Automaticly Label them when it comes to crime as Russian. Now if i was Russian, I would not find this very fair, that russians take all the blame, This Video is a perfect example of what i'm talking about.

 

 

 

Whats you view on this, do you think that Russians should stop getting the full blame, for every organized crime related thing that happens in the former soviet Union, or do you think the FBI, and other government agencies should alert the general public that these groups are very much seperate, and not all Russian...

Edited by Sanjeem

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General Goose

Guess it's because everyone still associates many of the smaller ethnic groups in Russia and many of the ex-Soviet nations with the Russians. And these organised crime groups came into the West full-force at the same time Russian organised crime itself did. "Russian Mafia" just serves as a catch-all term for all these groups I guess. Kinda like how many refer to all Italian organised crime as Mafia.

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Sanjeem
Guess it's because everyone still associates many of the smaller ethnic groups in Russia and many of the ex-Soviet nations with the Russians. And these organised crime groups came into the West full-force at the same time Russian organised crime itself did. "Russian Mafia" just serves as a catch-all term for all these groups I guess. Kinda like how many refer to all Italian organised crime as Mafia.

Yeah, but my point is that say if Spain and France spoke Italian or very similar langauges (Which they do) and they both had a Mafia, it woudn't be fair to say that they are the Italina Mafia because that would just bring down shame on the Italians. Bassicly what i just said above, is what occurs for Russians.

 

I for one think it shoudn't be like that, if you watched Batman the dark Knight, One of the main crime bosses is Chechen, and runs a chechen gang, if you look it up in wiki or other sites, it comes up as Russian Mafia, i just find it stereotyped, and slightly prejudice towards russian people thats all, i guess this topic falls into prejudice and stereotyping abit.

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QwertyAAA

I think the distinction here is one less of national affiliation than ethnic affiliation, i.e. 'Russian' used as 'Русский'. Thus, it's at least partly valid.

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Sanjeem
I think the distinction here is one less of national affiliation than ethnic affiliation, i.e. 'Russian' used as 'Русский'. Thus, it's at least partly valid.

I don't get you mean sorry tounge.gif

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QwertyAAA

Well, what I mean is, for example, Ukraine, by way of having been a Soviet state, has adopted enough of the Soviet cultural identity and been reasonably homogenized with the rest of the USSR; thus, by a small stretch, one may consider the Russian Federation and the states it has considerable hegemony over [such as pretty much all ex-Soviet states and a number of Eastern European and Central Asian nations] to, in a way, be ethnically and culturally Russian, even if the native culture persists as the primary influence.

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Sanjeem
Well, what I mean is, for example, Ukraine, by way of having been a Soviet state, has adopted enough of the Soviet cultural identity and been reasonably homogenized with the rest of the USSR; thus, by a small stretch, one may consider the Russian Federation and the states it has considerable hegemony over [such as pretty much all ex-Soviet states and a number of Eastern European and Central Asian nations] to, in a way, be ethnically and culturally Russian, even if the native culture persists as the primary influence.

I do see your point there, it depends on what point of view you look at it, because now the way i see it, All those countries are seperate, and not the USSR anymore, and even though they might share similar cultural similarities, They are still different countries, and if the Media keep blaming Non-russian crime groups, and lebeling them Russian, Russia will get a bad name for it.

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QwertyAAA

I think that in a way, it is a question of affiliation: A crime group, by its very nature, is not affiliated with the state, as it blatantly disregards the social contract, so the only connotation present in calling them Russian is that of ethnicity or language, especially since the group itself might not necessarily be composed of a homogeneous assembly of people [again, by its nature] - due to the Balkanization that occurred, one might see traces of links that may begin a crime group running in more than nation, making it safer to label the identity as Russian due to the Russian hegemony instead of listing off half a dozen of obscure and minuscule mountain states that the actions of the group transcend.

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Sanjeem
I think that in a way, it is a question of affiliation: A crime group, by its very nature, is not affiliated with the state, as it blatantly disregards the social contract, so the only connotation present in calling them Russian is that of ethnicity or language, especially since the group itself might not necessarily be composed of a homogeneous assembly of people [again, by its nature] - due to the Balkanization that occurred, one might see traces of links that may begin a crime group running in more than nation, making it safer to label the identity as Russian due to the Russian hegemony instead of listing off half a dozen of obscure and minuscule mountain states that the actions of the group transcend.

I never thought of it that way, i guess they all do speak similar to russian. It still gives off the Wring expression though, because when you first hear it, you automaticly think of Russian as the nationality, and not the language, in my case anyway.

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QwertyAAA
I think that in a way, it is a question of affiliation: A crime group, by its very nature, is not affiliated with the state, as it blatantly disregards the social contract, so the only connotation present in calling them Russian is that of ethnicity or language, especially since the group itself might not necessarily be composed of a homogeneous assembly of people [again, by its nature] - due to the Balkanization that occurred, one might see traces of links that may begin a crime group running in more than nation, making it safer to label the identity as Russian due to the Russian hegemony instead of listing off half a dozen of obscure and minuscule mountain states that the actions of the group transcend.

I never thought of it that way, i guess they all do speak similar to russian. It still gives off the Wring expression though, because when you first hear it, you automaticly think of Russian as the nationality, and not the language, in my case anyway.

I do suppose so. However, there's another issue - the groups are usually very closely connected to Russia, as part of their operations, and it seldom occurs that a group is wholly nationalistic. Thus, in a way, via its ties to Russia, the entire scope of the operations would be referred to as Russian, although some of its stages would indubitably take place in [usually adjacent] nations. I suppose, with the entire point of trafficking being illegally making certain goods available in places where there usually are none, Russia acts as a key point in distribution and transportation.

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Sanjeem

 

I think that in a way, it is a question of affiliation: A crime group, by its very nature, is not affiliated with the state, as it blatantly disregards the social contract, so the only connotation present in calling them Russian is that of ethnicity or language, especially since the group itself might not necessarily be composed of a homogeneous assembly of people [again, by its nature] - due to the Balkanization that occurred, one might see traces of links that may begin a crime group running in more than nation, making it safer to label the identity as Russian due to the Russian hegemony instead of listing off half a dozen of obscure and minuscule mountain states that the actions of the group transcend.

I never thought of it that way, i guess they all do speak similar to russian. It still gives off the Wring expression though, because when you first hear it, you automaticly think of Russian as the nationality, and not the language, in my case anyway.

I do suppose so. However, there's another issue - the groups are usually very closely connected to Russia, as part of their operations, and it seldom occurs that a group is wholly nationalistic. Thus, in a way, via its ties to Russia, the entire scope of the operations would be referred to as Russian, although some of its stages would indubitably take place in [usually adjacent] nations. I suppose, with the entire point of trafficking being illegally making certain goods available in places where there usually are none, Russia acts as a key point in distribution and transportation.

And Russia has former KGB members who are in the mafia who have supplies to all different kinds of weapons from the Soviet war. Although never the less, it is still debatable, read the "Intro to Organyzastia" (3rd paragraph)on this web page, it is mentioned here aswell.

 

http://www.agentsnotes.com/redfellas.html

Edited by Sanjeem

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QwertyAAA
I think that in a way, it is a question of affiliation: A crime group, by its very nature, is not affiliated with the state, as it blatantly disregards the social contract, so the only connotation present in calling them Russian is that of ethnicity or language, especially since the group itself might not necessarily be composed of a homogeneous assembly of people [again, by its nature] - due to the Balkanization that occurred, one might see traces of links that may begin a crime group running in more than nation, making it safer to label the identity as Russian due to the Russian hegemony instead of listing off half a dozen of obscure and minuscule mountain states that the actions of the group transcend.

I never thought of it that way, i guess they all do speak similar to russian. It still gives off the Wring expression though, because when you first hear it, you automaticly think of Russian as the nationality, and not the language, in my case anyway.

I do suppose so. However, there's another issue - the groups are usually very closely connected to Russia, as part of their operations, and it seldom occurs that a group is wholly nationalistic. Thus, in a way, via its ties to Russia, the entire scope of the operations would be referred to as Russian, although some of its stages would indubitably take place in [usually adjacent] nations. I suppose, with the entire point of trafficking being illegally making certain goods available in places where there usually are none, Russia acts as a key point in distribution and transportation.

And Russia has former KGB members who are in the mafia who have supplies to all different kinds of weapons from the Soviet war. Although never the less, it is still debatable, read the "Intro to Organyzastia" (3rd paragraph)on this web page, it is mentioned here aswell.

 

http://www.agentsnotes.com/redfellas.html

Exactly.

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Mainland Marauder

Closed on OP's request.

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