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Bob_Dole

Conspiracy Theories?

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Bob_Dole

Basically, this topic is just to discuss different conspiracy theories throughout history. Discuss which ones are your favorite or which ones interest you the most. It could be anything from the JFK assassination to the Knights Templar/Freemasons have fun!

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Sanjeem

The Hiroshima Nuclear bombings...was it to show the USSR how strong the americans were?

Or they had to see if it worked as it cost billions...

 

those are my favourite because they show that humans are selfish and greedy race, who would bomb lots of innocent and non inocent people for their own uses.

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Bob_Dole

 

The Hiroshima Nuclear bombings...was it to show the USSR how strong the americans were?

Or they had to see if it worked as it cost billions...

 

those are my favourite because they show that humans are selfish and greedy race, who would bomb lots of innocent and non inocent people for their own uses.

 

Agreed, I am truly convinced that the government killed JFK because he might have been about to reveal something like extraterrestrial contact or something of that nature. The government found him to be a threat so they hired the mob to kill JFK and they covered it up so they couldn't be implicated.

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Spinach

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

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Ari Gold

I don't like conspiracy theories because their sole purpose is to give deranged, naïve lunatics something to rant on about in order to keep them from doing something more stupid (for them) which could harm other people within society. Like getting a job or going outside.

 

Like seriously, just 'cause you think the Government whacked JFK doesn't mean that it necessarily is true, especially if you have no facts to prove it. I could sit here and say that the Jews really are an inferior, scummy race and that Hitler was correct in promoting an Aryan nation-state fascist across the World, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm correct (by the way, I don't hold these views, I'm using this purely as an example).

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Tom Toole
Like seriously, just 'cause you think the Government whacked JFK doesn't mean that it necessarily is true, especially if you have no facts to prove it

I would agree if not for my non-belief or suspension of belief in any and all claim of veracity.

 

Just because you believe it doesn't mean it's true. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's true. Just because you believe it does mean it's true. Just because you don't believe it does mean it's true.

 

This is a slightly teological discussion in this respect - is belief or faith in a world view good or bad?

 

This is a very scientific discussion in that respect - what evidence and observation can be gathered? could the evidence be misleading or indeed falsified?

 

The whole discussion is deeper than suggested by the OP - our history itself is a conspiracy theory - in science as you might know "theory" is equivalent to "most believable explanation". Conspiracy just would suggest secrecy or a large group of people congregating.

 

I don't mind Conspiracy Theorists - they tend to be more open-minded when compared to white-trash of other kinds. I like quite a bit when they are at the same time stoners and conspiracy theorists as well - I met one guy who was muslim, conspiracy theoriest, and stoner - that was way cool.

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massrcor

The Montauk project and Philadelphia experiment.

 

here is the timeline, AS IT REALLY HAPPENED.

 

-123,000 BC-

Evidence of intelligent life on Mars

 

1856-1943-

Nikola Tesla, father of modern electronics

 

1892-1957-

William Reich, discoverer of Orgone energy

 

1939-1945-

World War II

 

Early 40's-

First stage of Project Rainbow

 

July 20, 1943-

First test of the Philadelphia Experiment

 

August 6, 1943-

Three UFOs sighted over the USS Eldridge

 

August 12, 1943-

Second test of the Philadelphia Experiment - Duncan Cameron Jr (1) and Edward Cameron are transported to August 12, 1983

 

October 28, 1943-

Last test of the Philadelphia Experiment

 

Late 40's-

Second Stage of Project Rainbow

 

--

Phoenix Project, development of the radiosonde

 

1947-

Duncan Cameron Sr. contacted

 

Early 50's-

Project Rainbow and the Phoenix Project merge

 

1951-

Duncan Cameron Jr (2) born

 

1962-

Alleged landing of men on Mars

 

1963-

Duncan Cameron Jr (1) placed in Duncan Cameron Jr's (2) body

 

1967-

Phoenix Project complete

 

1969-

Phoenix Project ordered to disband by Congress

 

1971-

Formation of Phoenix II (aka the Montauk Project)

 

1973-

Experiments with mood alteration and mind control

 

1974-

Creation of the first Montauk Chair, further experiments with mind control

 

1976-

Creation of the Montauk Chair Mark II

 

1977-

Creation of solid objects by thought alone, experiments with "The Seeing Eye", mind control and telekinesis

 

1979-

Experiments with time travel

 

1979-1980-

Installation of the Orion Delta T antenna

 

1980-1981-

Calibration of new equipment and further time travel experiments

 

1981-1983-

Exploration and manipulation of the time stream

 

1982-1983-

Exploration of Mars

 

August 12, 1983-

Last major experiment of the Montauk Project. A time tunnel is created back to August 12, 1943. Duncan releases the Beast from the Id. Preston Nichols shuts down the Montauk transmitter

 

Late 1983- Montauk Project disbands.

 

May/June 1984- 'Black Berets' purge Montauk AFB.

 

Late 1984- Removal of most Montauk Project equipment. Cement used to seal off underground areas of the base. Montauk AFB abandoned.

 

2180-2280-

Possible time period that 3,000 - 10,000 people were sent to.

 

6037-

Time 'Aryan' children were sent to view a ruined city with a golden horse statue.

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leeg1931
Agreed, I am truly convinced that the government killed JFK because he might have been about to reveal something like extraterrestrial contact or something of that nature. The government found him to be a threat so they hired the mob to kill JFK and they covered it up so they couldn't be implicated.

JFK was shot dead because his brother and Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, was putting alot of pressure on the Trafficante and Capone Mafia groups. Groups which helped them become as powerful as they were. Not to mention the amount of legal pressure they put on the heavily mob linked Teamsters Union, it's leader, Jimmy Hoffa, was even quoted saying: "I'd give a million bucks to get that Kennedy bastard off my back."

Not to mention the recored conversation from then head of the Capone mob head, Sam Giancana: "I feel like this is Nazi Germany and like Kennedy thinks I'm the biggest Jew in town. If we don't do something about it quick, we're all gonna be dead."

Not forgetting these factors:

- The President was shot in Dallas, Trafficante turf.

- When he heard about Kennedy's death Giancana responed by slapping his knees and shouting "A wieght has been lifted!"

- The gun that Lee Harvey Oswald used was not capable of firing three shots immediatly after each other and to each hit the target.

- Oswald was going to give evidence, the topic of which is unknown.

- He was shot dead on the way there by a heavily Giancana linked club-owner named Jack Ruby. Who claimed he was distraught over the death of his President.

- In fact new evidence and survelience footage found later revealed that the shots must have came from below and in front not above and behind. Yet every commitee raised on the subject came to the same conclusion, that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy.

Of course there is many more theories on who killed the 60s President which are very valid such as Cubans taking revenge for the Bay of Pigs invasion, the John Birch society, an extreme right-wing Texas group (because of Kennedy's admiration of Martin Luther King) or even by the CIA for their own convolted reasons.

But you must admit that aliens and whatever else is just absurd.

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bobgtafan

Freemason conspiracies always interest me because they always assume that some group is in control of all the world events. I really think people just make conspiracy theories so the world doesn't seem as chaotic as it seems. To think that one crazy man can kill the evecuvtive of the highest office in the free world, or that a group of militants can bring down the symbols of American Wealth and Captailism can sometimes be to much for people to handle. That's why so many Americans don't believe the JFK assassinations, or even 9/11 offical reports.

 

Then people just want things to fit their world views. If I distrusted the government why would I be willing to say they have the operational capabitiles to send humans to extraterrestail bodies?

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makeshyft

 

Agreed, I am truly convinced that the government killed JFK because he might have been about to reveal something like extraterrestrial contact or something of that nature.

WOW. That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. The fact that there was more to the JFK assassination than we were allowed to know is basically public knowledge, but extraterrestrial life? Jesus...

 

Mine would be the circumstances surrounding Kurt Cobain's death. Specifically the coroner's report which detailed the fact that he had three-times the lethal dosage of heroin in his system when he died. Tolerance doesn't even come in to play with a dosage that high. He would have been almost instantly incapacitated and dead within minutes. There's no way someone with that much dope in his body could move, let alone operate a shotgun and blow his head off.

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vinnygorgeous

A good one because it is easy to prove would be the Bush election stealing conspiracy of 2000. If only democracy had won instead of American plutocracy. Why Americans keep electing corporate pawns is beyond me, Nader was the only candidate not paid for by the forces that have stitched up America for decades.

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Dingdongs

alien are in sky they come soon they kill jfk

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leeg1931
alien are in sky they come soon they kill jfk

Monkey in da tree they cum sson an make us Al slavs n dey kill Lincoln coz he be white#

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TheSiggi

"The Russians sunk the SSN-589, also more commonly known as USS Scorpion because they argued that the Americans shot K-129 two months earlier... " dozingoff.gif its pretty amazing anyway that this theory likely or not is not mentioned in the englisg wikipedia article confused.gif

but its more likely than the "hot run" theory since the crew was very trained because it was a SPEC-OP and the leaking gas conduit theory

 

what do you think?

 

 

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Tom Toole
alien are in sky they come soon they kill jfk

Monkey in da tree they cum sson an make us Al slavs n dey kill Lincoln coz he be white#

"Money in the power, power in the money, minute after minute, hour after hour"

 

So... Yes - conspiracy theories are a type of mythology - they help to humanize, to make relatable, some of the facts of our lives that we are so alienated from.

 

"Land of the Brave, Home of the Free"

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E.A.B.
The Hiroshima Nuclear bombings...was it to show the USSR how strong the americans were?

Or they had to see if it worked as it cost billions...

The US didn't want to head into mainland Japan because they had already seen Japanese soldiers in action. They were brutal, and practically lifeless dolls that cared not for their own lives but for the life of the state. Unlike the US, where we take a 'no man left behind' attitude and value our life on the battlefield, the average Japanese soldier didn't care. The state was all that mattered and he was well aware that his own life was just a pawn of the emperors grand scheme.

 

But when you think your emperor is God, then it makes sense.

 

They encouraged suicide instead of being captured by the enemy, and when they were losing, they began killing themselves in planes flown into American ships.

 

The US didn't want to deal with their VERY capable and STRONG Army on-ground, so I doubt that theory. They WERE given time to surrender and avoid the attacks.

 

BUT, BUT, BUTBUTBUTBUTBUTBUTBUT, that theory certainly sounds plausible. Or, at least, it could be a reason IN ADDITION to ending the war. I like it.

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Tom Toole
Unlike the US, where [they] take a 'no man left behind' attitude and value [their] li[ves ...], the average Japanese [...] didn't care. [...] he was well aware that his own life was just a pawn of the emperors grand scheme.

 

[...]

[The Japanese ideologues defended] suicide [as a good alternative to being captured and tortured by the enemy], and [as part of their strategy], they began [flying] themselves in planes [aimed] into American ships.

 

The US didn't want to deal with [the Japanese] VERY capable and STRONG Army on-ground, so [some People] doubt that theory. The[ Japanese] WERE given time to surrender and avoid the attacks.

 

BUT, BUT, BUTBUTBUTBUTBUTBUTBUT, that theory certainly sounds plausible. Or, at least, it could be a reason IN ADDITION to ending the war. [some people] like it.[/color]

Please take a look at my edits to your comment - my I don't know - selective whatchamacall it? editing?

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E.A.B.
I have absolutely no idea what you just did or why

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The-King
I have absolutely no idea what you just did or why

He's a troll, you shouldn't have dignified his post with a response.

 

~TK~

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Saggy

 

Agreed, I am truly convinced that the government killed JFK because he might have been about to reveal something like extraterrestrial contact or something of that nature. The government found him to be a threat so they hired the mob to kill JFK and they covered it up so they couldn't be implicated.

JFK was shot dead because his brother and Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, was putting alot of pressure on the Trafficante and Capone Mafia groups. Groups which helped them become as powerful as they were. Not to mention the amount of legal pressure they put on the heavily mob linked Teamsters Union, it's leader, Jimmy Hoffa, was even quoted saying: "I'd give a million bucks to get that Kennedy bastard off my back."

Not to mention the recored conversation from then head of the Capone mob head, Sam Giancana: "I feel like this is Nazi Germany and like Kennedy thinks I'm the biggest Jew in town. If we don't do something about it quick, we're all gonna be dead."

Not forgetting these factors:

- The President was shot in Dallas, Trafficante turf.

- When he heard about Kennedy's death Giancana responed by slapping his knees and shouting "A wieght has been lifted!"

- The gun that Lee Harvey Oswald used was not capable of firing three shots immediatly after each other and to each hit the target.

- Oswald was going to give evidence, the topic of which is unknown.

- He was shot dead on the way there by a heavily Giancana linked club-owner named Jack Ruby. Who claimed he was distraught over the death of his President.

- In fact new evidence and survelience footage found later revealed that the shots must have came from below and in front not above and behind. Yet every commitee raised on the subject came to the same conclusion, that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy.

Of course there is many more theories on who killed the 60s President which are very valid such as Cubans taking revenge for the Bay of Pigs invasion, the John Birch society, an extreme right-wing Texas group (because of Kennedy's admiration of Martin Luther King) or even by the CIA for their own convolted reasons.

But you must admit that aliens and whatever else is just absurd.

The idea that the rifle that was used not being able to fire three shots is completely false and people need to stop buying into Oliver Stone's story of events. I f*cking hate hearing Kevin Costner going, "Back and to the left," over and over again and how people are influenced by that stupid movie time and time again. Oswald was an excellent marksman, virtually anyone can cock and fire the type of rifle he had three times within 8 seconds ( as demonstrated by countless experts ) and many people have actually replicated the same moving shot. The bullet wasn't "magic", the entrance/exit wounds on Connally are so oddly positioned because he was facing backward in his seat, which was also offset to the center of the car and 6" below Kennedy's, and Kennedy's head moved "back and to the left" because of the outward "jetlike" propulsion that the exit wound causes. Here, let's allow Penn to explain:

 

 

 

Here is some dude reproducing those 3 shots that are impossible to fire accurately in 8 seconds. Seems like he did pretty well though

 

user posted image

 

Oswald on the other hand was qualified 48 out of 50 at 200 yards. The shot from the book depository to the moving vehicle was only 80 something yards. There are claims that his skill had diminished at the end of his service to a level of "sharpshooter" but either way I think the idea that this shot is impossible is extremely far fetched and the "fact" that Oswald was a bad marksmen is just magically created to suit the argument.

 

The idea that acoustic evidence suggested there were two guns, or that the shots came from another direction, have been brought up and then found to be inconclusive or totally false time and time again.

 

Oswald shot Kennedy, and there was no link to the mafia that could be found besides Jack Ruby. The big problem I have with the idea that it was set up by the mafia is that they probably would have had him killed in jail instead of in that split second of time they had to do it while transferring him. In fact, if it weren't for the media presence that day, they could have parked the car in an area which would have prevented Jack Ruby from ever even having access. Pretty sloppy way to bump off a patsy.

 

It doesn't make any sense that the mafia would use Oswald as a patsy either. I mean, here you've got some guy that had defected to the Soviet Union, no mafia connections, going nowhere in his life, what connection to the mafia could he have even had? Top it off, he had no help, and a sloppily planned execution and escape. I mean, generally mafia hits don't take place with a well-aimed shot from one guy up in a building in front of a huge crowd of spectators, and in the process of escaping they would probably have a better plan than shooting a cop and hiding in a theater.

 

 

@makeshyft,

 

Figures on how large a dose is needed to cause toxicity are very shaky, and on what grounds do you claim tolerance is irrelevant? Three times a lethal dose means three times an LD50. An LD50 is a dose at which 50 percent of the subjects administered the chemical died. Combine that with a high tolerance, and the fact that Cobain could have been using all day as opposed to the one-time applications they do in clinical testing, and there's really nothing to say that he couldn't have been functioning under that level of intoxication except for the fact that they found three times the LD50 dosage. I mean, it's even possible he deliberately over-dosed himself trying to kill himself and got sick of waiting. To say tolerance isn't a factor simply because the dose was so high is putting too much stock into the figures for lethal doses, how much time it takes the drugs to effect a user, and really how much the drugs actually effect a person. I mean, the type of intoxication that leads to a fatal overdose on heroin requires the person already be unconscious. Just because he had taken that lethal dose and was on the onset doesn't mean he still didn't possess the ablity to write and do other tings. After all he was a long time user acclimated to the effects of the drug, not only just tolerance. The difference being that Cobain was probably quite a bit more competent than the average heroin user when loaded--I think his lyrics would attest to the fact that he can move his arms around while really high.

 

Overall the whole thing seems kind of suspicious, but I just don't see how it would be some kind of murder posed as a suicide, and the biggest reason why I don't see it is beacuse it's more complicated than it needs to be. If Courtney Love wanted Kurt Cobain dead and could hire a hitman to do it this way, why make it look like an overdose? I mean, to me that leaves more open holes and doubts than if they set it up to look like a home invasion that cost him his life.

 

Even besides that, the fact that there was no sign of a struggle or anything would make you wonder how the person got inside. Either he took control and forced his way inside by making contact with Cobain outside of the home, or it was someone Cobain knew. Either way when they gained entry, there just doesn't seem like there's a real good reason to me to make it seem like a suicide. What motive would Courtney Love have for this to possibly ruin the plan by also leaving the note?

 

It's just much more realistic that the toxicology reports are wrong, or that tolerance and acclimation prove a bigger part, or maybe just that Cobain was remarkably more tolerant to the drug than most people. To me all of that is much more believable and a much more succinct explanation than the conspiracy theories I've heard of why Courtney Love set it up. I mean, you have to ask yourself the right questions. If Cobain shot himself, why was he able to do so despite the heavy dosage? Tolerance, acclimation, just being a unique person, clinical inconsistencies. All of those possibilities are very relevant to the type of person Cobain was and to the argument against it being suicide. So then, when we ask if Cobain was set up, Why was there no forced entry? Why was it made to look like a suicide. What was the motive? Where did Love meet the people to do this? None of those questions have a reasonable answer. I mean, did Cobain have a high tolerance? Obviously, he was a habitual user; was he acclimated to the effects, yeah, he wrote music while high; is there a possibility the clinical findings and the opinion on the dose being lethal could be wrong, yes because all of the methods for testing lethal doses aren't very applicable to a habitual, human user and even then still have their margin of error. You cannot offer the kind of answers for the questions involving Courtney Love except with answers that support the suicide. Why was there no forced entry? Why was there a note? Why was it made to look like a suicide instead of a murder by unknown party?

 

When I look at the whole thing, I have to say that in my opinion it's much more likely that he had enough of a tolerance to have shot himself.

 

 

Personally my favorite conspiracy theories are usually tossed about concerning the pyramids of Egypt and South America. These are great because there are still some real mysteries about how the Egyptians built their pyramids to such extreme tolerances, yet instead of wondering, "Maybe they were smarter than we thought," people tend to create their own wild ideas of how they did it. Which range from, "Oh, they used an intricate sand trap to do this," which have no basis to, "Oh, aliens helped them."

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Tom Toole
I have absolutely no idea what you just did or why

He's a troll, you shouldn't have dignified his post with a response.

 

~TK~

I do not enjoy being called a troll... and if a signor does not understand nor know what I did - perhaps it would be best to try elucidating rather than suggesting the end of a possible exchange of information and perhaps even knowledge and perhaps even wisdom.

 

Nevertheless I am somewhat elated that a comment of mine would have drawn The King to post, I would have thought the kingdom would have made things so busy that a king of any sort would have trouble visiting GTAF - let alone to answer a reply to one of my posts, and let alone THE king... quite different things...

 

but enough of that.

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Tyler

I find that the best conspiracies involve that of botched moon landings, or geographical locations on planets we have come to see as a possible life spot.

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EternalChe

most of those "conspiracy theories" are actually conspiracy fact, especially when they are about politics and assassinations, like JFK being the best example.

 

most people actually don't know this, but its official, so those who do not think that JFK assassination was a conspiracy can just kill themselves suicidal.gif

 

 

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Tyler

The entire time of the film it was noted that every single reporter said, "Probably a conspiracy".

 

Because just like most conspiracies, if it is true, then they did so much more work then anyone will every be able to break the case.

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EternalChe
The entire time of the film it was noted that every single reporter said, "Probably a conspiracy".

that's the closest congressional committees and mainstream media will ever get to admitting it.

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Rown

Nice stuff. The things the media does and does not cover is always fun to see. I saw a tape of a pro-war march that took place in NYC during the Vietnam war. Hundreds if not thousands taking part. Apparently none of the major networks whose headquarters were blocks away chose to cover it.

 

Basically the media fails a lot. Good of them to cover this though lol.

 

On an aesthetic note that organization needs to take their tag off their videos. People are less likely to appreciate it if it looks like it has a slant. Unless we've become cynical enough to not give a sh*t.

 

Rown rampage_ani.gif

 

P.S.

 

Footage from mentioned parade

 

Edited by Rown

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Tyler

As a very big Conspiracy Theorist I have the ability to shun you for watching media news in the first place. How pathetic indeed.

 

 

The actual video is a good find, but for the sake of argument why the hell would someone have it in their interests to kill MLK jr. and JFK? Was it the revolutionary claims and actions both of these figures took? If so, then the group that did take part in each of their assassinations must hold a big spot of power somewhere to hate change that bad.

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Carnage1120

some conspiracy theories were created because people couldn't handle the harsh reality, some theories were created to help cope.

 

The Micheal Jackson conspiracy, people kept saying he faked his death and he was still alive.

9/11 conspiracy was created because thousands of americans could not live with the reality that a bunch of muslims with boxcutters was able to kill thousands.

JFK conspiracy was created because americans could not believe that 1 lone sniper was capable of killing the leader of the free world.

 

What pisses me off is the cherry picking conspiracy theorists that ignore all other facts around them.

If you want to convince me you better give me damn good explanation and not link me to another site, all linking does is prove that you can read something on the internet and believe it.

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EternalChe
JFK conspiracy was created because americans could not believe that 1 lone sniper was capable of killing the leader of the free world.

yea, I guess political assassinations and the overthrow/changing a government is only possible in other countries, not the US.

 

I mean Operation Ajax, Operation PBSUCCESS, Bay of Pigs Invasion, Operation Brother Sam, Operation Cyclone etc. are just conspiracy theories, ha ha.

 

I was crazy to believe that's in official history books, and I was even more crazier believing that the same people who perpetrated those acts would have the ability to to them in their own country and, course covering it up. biggrin.gif (I'm being sarcastic here, btw)

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Tyler

Sarcasm is a douche bag's best friend (I am also being sarcastic).

 

As for Carnage's post, you hold as much ground as we do on an Internet forum, so calling us the liars (Or more likely you called us mis-informed) will just not cut it for either side. Any huge event in history gets labelled as a conspiracy. Why? Because it involved more than one person taking power or controlling an event to make the encounter seem to be someone else's doing.

 

Don't believe me? The Assassination of Julius Caesar was a conspiracy to us now. Back then, they only caught one assassin. Lincoln's Assassination is thought to be a conspiracy only because it is the most plausible solution to the equation. As was Kennedy, and his controversial ways of changing America for the better.

 

I would gladly go into any sort of Conspiracy you are trying to point out as a cherry-picked case. Just go ahead and say it and we can start an actual debate.

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