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Dingdongs

What the hell is wrong with Arizona?

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General Goose

Wut? The? Feck?

 

I ain't heard that before. And what about if they have an Arizona accent?

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Canofceleri

I find it really disgusting how blatantly and ridiculously aggressive Arizona is being. Tax dollars at work there.

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Saggy
Wut? The? Feck?

 

I ain't heard that before. And what about if they have an Arizona accent?

Well, I don't think that too many accents in the country vary so widely that people can't understand each other. I mean, sure, there might be some different slang and the like, but generally I believe any person from New York or Boston could teach anyone from the South or the Midwest, or the West, or whatever and vise versa.

 

Thick accents that make it hard to understand English words are a little problematic though. I mean, I can speak from personal experience, I was taught how to read by a Mexican woman, and taught how to machine by a German man. Both of them had very heavy accents and it took a lot of work to clarify things.

 

Just beacuse it's harder doesn't really mean it's that much of an obstacle though. I think that if you cannot work through an accent, you're just not really trying to understand a person very well.

 

People are lazy when it comes to language barriers though. I saw it a lot when working at Dominos since we never had anyone there that was bilingual. A lot of people would just hang up the phone without saying a word, or just say, "We don't speak Spanish, don't call back," and when someone came in the store to make an order they would generally be very rude to them, acting like the fact that they cannot speak English makes their job impossibly hard and their life infinitely more difficult.

 

In the mean time I could help some ten year old kid out by just pointing to items in the catalog. I didn't even know how to tell him the price in Spanish, but it didn't really matter since he could do basic math--a lot more than I could say for some of the other kids that ordered for their parents.

 

It seems kind of stupid to do such a thing anyway, because then it's just going to be harder for them to understand any person with an accent later in life. That's the kind of thing you need to develop an ear for by being exposed to it. With that in mind I wonder if the problem isn't that the children are being taught too much by someone with a heavy accent, or if they're just not being taught enough by someone with an accent they can understand. You know, someone like the parent...

 

 

Ultimately while I think it should be considered a little bit, the guy featured in the video had some pretty ridiculous comments. I mean, if someone refers to a "comma" as a "coma", I'm pretty sure the simple measure would be to indicate, "Oh, if I say "coma" I'm saying "comma" I have a hard time pronouncing it." What is someone proficient in English but no other language going to do when when a student asks, "But how do I pronounce this sound?" by someone who never had to learn how to do so from another language, but learned from birth. There are advantages to having bilingual people teaching people that are becoming bilingual.

 

When it comes down to it if there are special needs students and it creates too much of a barrier maybe that should be addressed, but any person with a reasonably developed intellect should be able to work small misunderstandings like that out. I mean, when I learned machining from my shop instructor Hans, he would sometimes mispronounce things in ways that would confuse a lot of people at first, but just a little thinking solved it. I mean, imagine hearing someone with a thick German accent pronouncing "molybdenum" and "aluminum" in an engineering environment, and a whole room full of people simply being able to go, "Oh, he meant this, and that" in their heads with no problem. If people can do that, then there would be no problem with "coma" and "comma" and if that guy really thinks so he's too stupid to be employed in the position he's been hired for.

 

I mean, just as it's safe to assume that the extremely malleable, grease-like substanse he talked called "moli-something" is molybdenum if you're a machinist, and even if you don't know what it is, you can just ask someone real quick, "What's that?" and get a better pronunciation for it.

 

Now that's rather complex stuff... Imagine if someone said, "You must use a coma when addressing a person," I'm pretty sure no one is going to think, "You have to be a persistent state of unconsciousness before addressing someone?" and if they don't understand they meant "comma" they could perfectly well say, "What is a 'coma'?" and get the whole thing sorted out. Better yet, that kind of experience builds better language skills in the end, since it prepares people for such mispronunciations like that and gets them thinking.

 

I guess having only proficient English speakers teach this guy ruined his ability to infer things from context. I bet he's one of those guys that use to talk about "Ebonics".

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Canofceleri

Yeah, I heard the superintendent (I think it was) mention the comma/coma example right after saying the policy doesn't target any one accent in particular. But saying comma like coma doesn't sound like Irish to me.

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Tom Toole

I study linguistics. But I only read KJB's answer so I will refrain from saying too much.

 

I actually did read other people's answers or texts or contibutions, but except for his contribution the topic is sh*te.

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illspirit

That video isn't very convincing. Lady sounds like she has her tinfoil on too tight, and all they could find to back it up was a handful of teachers who lost a few points for pronunciation on an audit? But they still run it with a headline that makes it sound like mass firings are imminent? panic.gif

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Otter

Here's a tip, Arizona. If you want quality teachers, pay for them.

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usmc123

A ton of states do this, it just makes the news because Arizona is under the spotlight for immigration. It's only for English teachers too, besides you have to have already proven your English proficiency prior to teaching. I live in Arizona and all these bills and what not are grossly over exaggerated everywhere else. Our education is our biggest problem, not immigration. My school is continually losing teachers and is suffering budget cuts, we already have one of the worst education systems in the country. If anything Jan Brewer needs to pull her head out of her ass and focus on bigger issues.

 

Oh and for the record, my Mom was a Mexican Immigrant and I'm Mexican-American.

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DareYokel

This is awesome. It really shows how far humanity has gone. Arizona is very Nazi like. I think you should just put a nice big electrical fence around Arizona so that stupid can't get out, and immigrants couldn't get it. It's a win-win solution.

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King Kapone

My niece goes to a class to help with a speech problem she has. She's only 8 years old so it's an easy fix but she has some trouble pronouncing the letter R in some words. "Oreo" sounds like "oil", "rock" sounds like "walk".

 

Anyway, her speech teacher is clearly from some Southern state. If I recall, she said Tennessee. Bear in mind, I'm from New Jersey. So I can understand the concern there is for teachers with accents handling speech classes for someone from up here. There will be a difference in the way certain words are sounded and achieved, and we may not be happy with the end result. I want my niece to get through her speech difficulties, not wind up sounding like she's from the South - not that there's something wrong with that. Southern accents just aren't popular here. It's not the regional sound. I don't know how else to explain it..

 

So, you guys are calling it aggressive and "nazi-like" but unless you have a kid in the school system facing something like this, you're talking out of your asses.

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illspirit

 

So, you guys are calling it aggressive and "nazi-like" but unless you have a kid in the school system facing something like this, you're talking out of your asses.

Does one even need kids to realize it's a bit extreme to compare taking a few points of a test to shoving six million people into ovens? I would think even a kid should be able to spot the difference.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

Have you guys ever been taught by a native German? I mean, the guy was already to talk to when you could understand him, but there was no way you could learn in his class. I would imagine the same thing would apply to native Spaniards and Mexicans.

 

 

It seems kind of stupid to do such a thing anyway, because then it's just going to be harder for them to understand any person with an accent later in life. That's the kind of thing you need to develop an ear for by being exposed to it. With that in mind I wonder if the problem isn't that the children are being taught too much by someone with a heavy accent, or if they're just not being taught enough by someone with an accent they can understand. You know, someone like the parent...

 

 

Well, I live closer to Canada than Mexico, there's not much of a reason for this in my neck of the woods but I'm sure there are plenty of accented teachers along the border doing their part. What more can really be done? Is there now going to be an "accent" class so little kids can spend a year getting used to a certain people's dialect?

 

 

This is awesome. It really shows how far humanity has gone. Arizona is very Nazi like. I think you should just put a nice big electrical fence around Arizona so that stupid can't get out, and immigrants couldn't get it. It's a win-win solution.

 

LoL OVERLY EXAGGERATED ANYONE?!?!

Edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420

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Playstation_Loyalist

Arizona's getting worst than I thought. Their government is in paranoia. Why did they even elected those officials ffs?!

 

 

LoL OVERLY EXAGGERATED ANYONE?!?!

 

It does apply exaggeration, but it isn't really over-exaggerated. It's because Arizona's bitching government is trying to fend off immigrants over their land. Arizona's government the biggest B.S. I've ever known...

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Shylock

I don't see anything wrong with Arizona. More states should follow suit.

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leeg1931

Ahh yes these are the same laws that the Mexican President said he was outraged at and then it was later revealed that he hadn't actually read them. I will admit that these immigration laws do look they're eventually gonna get to the point where they re-name the Arizona Governer "Das Fuhrer." But I guess that if the people of Arizona voted for them then there's not much that can be done but wait until they invade Poland, I guess.

Edited by leeg1931

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

It does apply exaggeration, but it isn't really over-exaggerated. It's because Arizona's bitching government is trying to fend off immigrants over their land. Arizona's government the biggest B.S. I've ever known...

Arizona is the kidnapping capital of the USA thanks to relaxed Federal authority over the border, among other heinous crimes. The law that Arizona passed only reinforces the Federal illegal immigration laws so that Arizona can enforce them since Clinton/Bush/Obama never did jack sh*t about them.

 

You know Janet Napolitano, our pathetic excuse for a Homeland Security Secretary? Well, while she was the governor of Arizona, she asked Bush to reimburst the costs of Arizona for Border Control and she was denied numerous times. Is it not funny now that she is in the Federal Government, she and Obama can not be arsed to reimburst the costs to the new governor?

 

In short, the Federal government is a vacuum where perhaps traditionally good men become blood sucking leeches that think they run the whole damn show. While it is expressly written in the damn law of the land that the Federal government is to provide defense, our southern most border is so wide open that the f*cking Chinese could stroll across it and take the southern United States in less than 2 weeks in an invasion. But lucky for Obama, the only thing invading the USA is a massive amount of illegal drugs, illegal immigrants, and cartel wars.

 

 

Ahh yes these are the same laws that the Mexican President said he was outraged at and then it was later revealed that he hadn't actually read them.

 

Not only that, the hipocrit even said himself they detain their own illegals and deport them ASAP. Still that apparently gives him all the right to come here, have a couple of brews with Obambi, and trash a state trying to defend itself from people that are profiting and/or are tired of the complete sh*thole of an economy that Mexico has.

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Playstation_Loyalist

 

Ahh yes these are the same laws that the Mexican President said he was outraged at and then it was later revealed that he hadn't actually read them. I will admit that these immigration laws do look they're eventually gonna get to the point where they re-name the Arizona Governer "Das Fuhrer." But I guess that if the people of Arizona voted for them then there's not much that can be done but wait until they invade Poland, I guess.

 

^This. lol.gif

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E.A.B.

The immigration issue is tricky and difficult, but this is just f*cking retarded

 

If they want to get REAL anal about 'proper english without an accent' then the whole of the southern US is out of the running

 

Cause last I heard, English Ain' Spoken lie-k dis boy. sh*t, go to England if you want PROPER English without an accent. They will argue tooth and nail (my teacher from the Caribbean [which was taught British English in her school] constantly points out the flaws and diversions in American English) about how American English isn't proper and a bastardization.

 

As long as the teacher can teach the rules and grammar, who gives a damn? Honestly, what do they expect? They live next to Mexico, people are bound to pass through the border and infuse part of their culture into the area. Their culture AND THEIR WAY OF SPEAKING ENGLISH. It's only natural. So subsequent generations of Arizonians will speak with an accent, just like the rest of the South.

 

Big deal.

 

Speaking of English, they need to shut the hell up about 'English is the official language'

 

Cause its REALLY difficult to learn any other language after you're above the age of 13 or so. Your brain is already programmed to speak in a certain tongue and will only barely pick out words from other languages. I still don't see the worry though. Their children, living in an English speaking country will learn the language, so its no big deal. Second and third generation Italians know more English than their native tongue, so it doesn't matter.

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nlitement

EAB: Care should be taken that these kids really DO learn proper American English and not some non-native accent. It's just silly to see second generation immigrants here speaking Finnish with an accent just because they didn't play with Finnish kids (gah).

 

EDIT: I re-read your post. Sorry for the hasty response. I guess you can't compare English to Finnish, with its many accents, but still, it's only for your own good if you can speak General American. No employer is impressed by "minority accents", unfortunately. Plus, there are native accents and non-native accents. The reason I would say certain accents are more valid is because their speakers have an unbroken lineage of parents who spoke English natively.. up to the times of William I or something. There's no reason to give the impression of yourself that you weren't born in America, if you in fact were.

Edited by nlitement

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E.A.B.

 

...speak General American. No employer is impressed by "minority accents", unfortunately. Plus, there are native accents and non-native accents. The reason I would say certain accents are more valid is because their speakers have an unbroken lineage of parents who spoke English natively.. up to the times of William I or something. There's no reason to give the impression of yourself that you weren't born in America, if you in fact were.

Languages change with time and migrations. Fun fact; the Spanish word for shirt (camiza) is also the same in Arabic (think of the Moors and their conquest of Spain). Also; Americans have evolved their own form of English, with a more coarse tongue compared to their English brethren.

 

I'm basically saying that accents are the natural evolution of language and social movement

 

1 HUGE Continent of South America, Central America and Mexico+Economic opportunities in America=Hola.

 

As for your 'Minority accent' and 'native accent' argument; give it time.

 

An Italian accent was NOT and NEVER WAS a 'Native accent'. But with the mass migration of Italians into New York and the prominence of Italians in the media gave way to it becoming 'a native new York accent'. Saying 'Estop' instead of 'Stop' will soon become a 'Southwestern thing' thanks in part to large pockets of Mexican populations. Once they reside in the area for three generations or so, it'll become part of the American fabric.

 

'non native' accents' become native with time; with the first arrivals being ostracized until future generations populate the area enough for it to become the norm.

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gtamann123

Crap, I posted in the wrong topic.

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drscot

WTF? Thats even more retarded than English occupation of scotland!

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Ari Gold

I think it's a gross exaggeration. 1,500 people were audited across the state for their accents, yet only 25 lost their jobs... I think a mass labour revolution should be started across Arizona, for the good of the people! dozingoff.gif

 

Although, having someone with a different accent teaching you English shouldn't really matter. If English isn't your native tongue, you're pretty much always going to have an accent and are always going to pronounce words differently. My parents have distinguishable Serbian accents, yet this hasn't affected the way I speak English with them, or anyone else.

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