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Jesus'En'Hitler420

Oh, God

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Fnorg

Public healthcare rocks. My father has an incredibly bad knee, and his hand is all sorts of f*cked up, and that is something a carpenter does not want nor need. There is no chance in heck we would be able to pay for these treatments he's going to need if it weren't for the glorious idea of socialism, and he'd probably have to stop working in the biz. Thankfully, my father has already payed off his treatments with a neat little 30%+ tax and can therefore, after a certainly long period of waiting (one of the down sides to socialized health care, long waiting periods for non-acute things), return to work and earn money and pay more tax.

 

I, however, don't really care about your debate, I just wanted to write up another perspective here. If you don't want it, that's fine. A lot of people need it. Take it from someone who knows, socialized health care is awesome. Don't like it? Is it too slow? Go to a private hospital. Boom! Problem solved.

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Mad Tony

 

@Mad Tony: Water is a privilege? What the hell? WHO states it as a human right.

Nobody. People are always saying that healthcare is a right as it is a necessity to live yet water is also necessary to live but obviously the idea that water is a right is silly. I was just making a point.

 

 

I'd rather see a terrible bill pass than a good bill fail at the hands of the republican nut-jobs that infest our congress.
That's a pretty biased view really. There are just as many Democrat nut-jobs.

 

Also, I can't understand why you'd want to have a terrible bill pass than no bill at all. You do realize that a terrible bill could actually make certain things worse (like the debt for example)?

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Mark
@Mad Tony: Water is a privilege? What the hell? WHO states it as a human right.

Nobody. People are always saying that healthcare is a right as it is a necessity to live yet water is also necessary to live but obviously the idea that water is a right is silly. I was just making a point.

You didn't get what I meant. WHO is the World Health Organisation, a branch of the United Nations. THEY state it is a basic human right.

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The-King

 

I'd rather see a terrible bill pass than a good bill fail at the hands of the republican nut-jobs that infest our congress.
That's a pretty biased view really. There are just as many Democrat nut-jobs.

 

Also, I can't understand why you'd want o have a terrible bill pass than no bill at all. You do realize that a terrible bill could actually make certain things worse (like the debt for example)?

Because it's actually doing something and frankly I'd rather see the government actively working on changing the system than sitting on their hands and doing f*ck all about it like we've been doing since god knows when.

 

Governments that actively take an interest in their people's well-being do much more good than ones that don't, and even a little progress, no matter how bad, or misguided is better than nothing at all.

Edited by The-King

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jimmy.
healthcare is a privilege, not a right.  People are not born with healthcare given to them; it is a luxury.

 

I agree with this statemate 100%.

 

Though I am somewhat of a social Darwinist. I believe there should be no government regulations, the people decide their fate with their own intelligence and good choices.

If most people were left to decide their own fate the world would be a f*cking hell-hole. Anarchy is never a good thing because most people are f*cking idiots and Darwinism in human society is long dead. With the inception of medicine we killed any potential evolution the human species had left.

 

I don't totally agree with this, but it's certainly a better thing than sitting back and bitching about how horrible our healthcare system is while sitting on our hands and doing f*cking nothing. I'd rather see a terrible bill pass than a good bill fail at the hands of the republican nut-jobs that infest our congress.

I didn't mean anarchy. that would never work. I mean left alone as far as economics with no government regulations on business and no government help either.

Move to Somalia.

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Guns N R0se
healthcare is a privilege, not a right.  People are not born with healthcare given to them; it is a luxury.

 

I agree with this statemate 100%.

 

Though I am somewhat of a social Darwinist. I believe there should be no government regulations, the people decide their fate with their own intelligence and good choices.

If most people were left to decide their own fate the world would be a f*cking hell-hole. Anarchy is never a good thing because most people are f*cking idiots and Darwinism in human society is long dead. With the inception of medicine we killed any potential evolution the human species had left.

 

I don't totally agree with this, but it's certainly a better thing than sitting back and bitching about how horrible our healthcare system is while sitting on our hands and doing f*cking nothing. I'd rather see a terrible bill pass than a good bill fail at the hands of the republican nut-jobs that infest our congress.

I didn't mean anarchy. that would never work. I mean left alone as far as economics with no government regulations on business and no government help either.

Move to Somalia.

Somalia is a good example of why anarchy doesn't work. turn.gif

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Mike Tequeli
healthcare is a privilege, not a right.  People are not born with healthcare given to them; it is a luxury.

 

I agree with this statemate 100%.

 

Though I am somewhat of a social Darwinist. I believe there should be no government regulations, the people decide their fate with their own intelligence and good choices.

If most people were left to decide their own fate the world would be a f*cking hell-hole. Anarchy is never a good thing because most people are f*cking idiots and Darwinism in human society is long dead. With the inception of medicine we killed any potential evolution the human species had left.

 

I don't totally agree with this, but it's certainly a better thing than sitting back and bitching about how horrible our healthcare system is while sitting on our hands and doing f*cking nothing. I'd rather see a terrible bill pass than a good bill fail at the hands of the republican nut-jobs that infest our congress.

I didn't mean anarchy. that would never work. I mean left alone as far as economics with no government regulations on business and no government help either.

Move to Somalia.

Funny thing is that the most stable part of Somalia is its market. If it weren't for the brutal civil war that's been going on for twenty years the country wouldn't be so sh*tty economically speaking. Keeping in mind this is a completely anarchic economy, although with the threat of Islamic Fundamentalists looming over it will never be free.

 

But rather then discuss whether or not healthcare is a right, we could discuss the merits of the bill itself... or whatever.^

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Tsuroki

If you can't afford medication or treatment, then you deserve to suffer. Having healthcare is a luxury, not a right. You're not born with it.

 

The fact that this resonates as "good" to anyone disturbs me greatly. If it wasn't for public healthcare in Canada (and specifically Ontario), a number of my own family members would not be alive today.

 

So when I see Americans cry in outrage that a public option is malicious and socialist and evil, when I see protesters screaming that they don't want to be burdened with an obligation of helping those in need... it makes me happy to be a Canadian. But it also makes me worry about all of those who are suffering because they have no other options. :\

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Mad Tony
If you can't afford medication or treatment, then you deserve to suffer. Having healthcare is a luxury, not a right. You're not born with it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody is saying you deserve to suffer if you can't afford it.

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K^2

I personally don't care about healthcare itself one way or another, but both sides have been f*cking with constitution for the past 10-15 years an an alarmingly escalating frequency.

 

J&H, I've been sort of out of the loop for a few days. Did they manage to push healthcare through both houses, or did they end up bypassing one on a technicality?

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Guns N R0se
If you can't afford medication or treatment, then you deserve to suffer. Having healthcare is a luxury, not a right. You're not born with it.

 

The fact that this resonates as "good" to anyone disturbs me greatly. If it wasn't for public healthcare in Canada (and specifically Ontario), a number of my own family members would not be alive today.

 

So when I see Americans cry in outrage that a public option is malicious and socialist and evil, when I see protesters screaming that they don't want to be burdened with an obligation of helping those in need... it makes me happy to be a Canadian. But it also makes me worry about all of those who are suffering because they have no other options. :\

It is a privilege, not a right. If you can't afford it you don't deserve it. I say screw the poor and actually help the members of society who contribute.

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Typhus

It's not your fault if you have a low paying job, is it? People get stuck in certain conditions and find it hard to do anything better with themselves.

Like it or not, but a strong work ethic is not always enough. Sometimes you need the state to lend you a helping hand.

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Guns N R0se
It's not your fault if you have a low paying job, is it? People get stuck in certain conditions and find it hard to do anything better with themselves.

Like it or not, but a strong work ethic is not always enough. Sometimes you need the state to lend you a helping hand.

Too bad at the moment the state doesn't have money to lend a hand. Which is the problem. I don't mind helping people, I mind helping people when we're already in debt. Like Haiti. 100mil down the drain for a 3rd world country with little to no effect on us.

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Twang of Calimari

Money is just paper. I'd say human life is worth a little more. Whether it's our neighbors, or some people who we'll never ever meet. They matter more than a few numbers on a piece of paper.

 

In before someone calls me a bleeding heart.

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Guns N R0se
Money is just paper. I'd say human life is worth a little more. Whether it's our neighbors, or some people who we'll never ever meet. They matter more than a few numbers on a piece of paper.

 

In before someone calls me a bleeding heart.

Money makes the world work, it's a necessary evil.

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jimmy.
It's not your fault if you have a low paying job, is it? People get stuck in certain conditions and find it hard to do anything better with themselves.

Like it or not, but a strong work ethic is not always enough. Sometimes you need the state to lend you a helping hand.

Too bad at the moment the state doesn't have money to lend a hand. Which is the problem. I don't mind helping people, I mind helping people when we're already in debt. Like Haiti. 100mil down the drain for a 3rd world country with little to no effect on us.

That's really f*cking crass, man. Plus, the US has had a 200+ year role (with France and others) in helping create the horrible conditions found in Haiti, so we're obligated to try to reverse the terrible history of US-Haitian relations.

 

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Mark

 

Too bad at the moment the state doesn't have money to lend a hand. Which is the problem. I don't mind helping people, I mind helping people when we're already in debt. Like Haiti. 100mil down the drain for a 3rd world country with little to no effect on us.

 

 

Then I guess you can consider yourself lucky to be born into a relatively wealthy family in a relatively wealthy part of the world. Not all of the world's 6.7 billion are so lucky.

 

Oh and a news flash, all nations are in debt. It is part of the financial system for a nation to be in debt. Are you against lending a hand all the time? Hell, be glad this isn't the 1950s where US debt was nearly 120% of GDP. Luckily for you, it's about half that at the moment, even with the recent economic downturn.

 

Hold up...you've just turned 17 right? I find it quite ironic that someone who so far has been handed everything is against the idea of hand outs. I don't mean to belittle by using the age card but I used to think like you. Since then I finished college, got a job, pay taxes, bills, rent and the like. I don't have a lot of free cash left over at the end of it. I'm another cog in the wheel in this great big rat race. However, I'm happy to think that if I had a run of bad luck I'd be looked after til I got things going again. I'm happy to know that I'm contributing to something I can fall back on if times get hard.

 

I know that due to my upbringing in a moderately socialist nation has given me these views but I'd like to think that even those in a drastically more capitalist state would at least look after one another should they fall on bad times. After all, how can the US be formed of a Christian majority if the general populous are willing to forsake the parable of The Good Samaritan?

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jimmy.

 

After all, how can the US be formed of a Christian majority if the general populous are willing to forsake the parable of The Good Samaritan?

Generally, I hear two arguments:

 

1. That private charity will (theoretically) take care of all of that in a "free market" (it won't)

2. f*ck the poor- aka admitting openly that you are a terrible, uncaring human being and reject central parts of the Bible's teachings (but what good Christian doesn't)

Edited by jimmy.

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Guns N R0se
It's not your fault if you have a low paying job, is it? People get stuck in certain conditions and find it hard to do anything better with themselves.

Like it or not, but a strong work ethic is not always enough. Sometimes you need the state to lend you a helping hand.

Too bad at the moment the state doesn't have money to lend a hand. Which is the problem. I don't mind helping people, I mind helping people when we're already in debt. Like Haiti. 100mil down the drain for a 3rd world country with little to no effect on us.

That's really f*cking crass, man. Plus, the US has had a 200+ year role (with France and others) in helping create the horrible conditions found in Haiti, so we're obligated to try to reverse the terrible history of US-Haitian relations.

Not our problem. We have our own sh*t to deal with. f*ck haiti.

 

 

Also Mark, I agree, my viewpoint will probably be different as I age. I am just stupid teen. I know this and admit it.

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Oddsock
As a European, holy f*cking wow at the views in here.

I'm not even a European and I'm saying the same thing. Anyone else notice a large amount of closed-minded one-way retardation coming out of J&H quite a bit?

 

Maybe it's just me. Anyway, J&H is a moron. Tried for treason? You f*cking idiot, I'd invite you to name one thing treasonous about guaranteeing all Americans have health insurance and care, but I don't want to bother reading any kind of sh*t you'll be spewing out of that hole connected to your malformed brain.

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illspirit
After all, how can the US be formed of a Christian majority if the general populous are willing to forsake the parable of The Good Samaritan?

Because the parable of the Good Samaritan involves giving one's own time/property/wealth of one's own volition, and not sending men in state-issued costumes to steal other people's money at gunpoint to give away? tounge.gif Once force is initiated, it immediately ceases to be charity.

 

Anyhow, I find this whole thing hilarious. On one side, people on the keep talking about how the bill "provides access" to health care and stands up to the eeeeevil insurance companies largely by... requiring people to buy insurance they may neither want nor afford from said eeeeevil insurance companies. Or face a fine. And jail if they don't pay the fine. And get killed if they resist arrest.

 

On the other, you have people crying "socialism1!1" when this is the biggest corporate handout/capture since the TARP bailouts or, well, Bush's Medicare Part D.

 

Speaking of which, it's even more amusing that virtually nobody on the "left" (aside from a few notable dissidents like Jane Hamsher, or Dennis Kucinich before he sold his soul for a ride on Air Force One) are pointing out that this is pretty much corporate welfare like they rightfully did in response to the aforementioned Medicare D.

 

Either way, the insurance and drug companies will laugh all the way to the bank. As will Pelosi, Reid, and 0bama as they continue raking in big contributions from the affected industries.

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Mad Tony
It's not your fault if you have a low paying job, is it? People get stuck in certain conditions and find it hard to do anything better with themselves.

Like it or not, but a strong work ethic is not always enough. Sometimes you need the state to lend you a helping hand.

Too bad at the moment the state doesn't have money to lend a hand. Which is the problem. I don't mind helping people, I mind helping people when we're already in debt. Like Haiti. 100mil down the drain for a 3rd world country with little to no effect on us.

That's really f*cking crass, man. Plus, the US has had a 200+ year role (with France and others) in helping create the horrible conditions found in Haiti, so we're obligated to try to reverse the terrible history of US-Haitian relations.

We already know the US is to blame for everything that's wrong in the world Jimmy.

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Tornado Rex

The thing I find ironic about this whole thing is all the Republicans screaming this is unconstitutional were the same ones cheering Bush on for signing the Patriot Act.

 

Also, to all you "100% free markets work" peeps. Know what an unregulated free market leads to? Price gouging. When there's only maybe 3 main insurance companies in this country they control the market, not the people. The fact that people think they have any control over a corporate entity boggles my mind. I guess we all want to feel like we have some control over our lives, but that's just stupid.

 

I'm willing to bet every single person who is up-in-arms about this bill has had health insurance their entire life. Go get sick without insurance and see which song you're singing. You don't think you pay for other people's care right now? Guess who fronts the bill when uninsured people go to the emergency room. I would much rather pay for those people to have preventative care (which is much, much cheaper) than pay for all the ER visits because they can't afford a regular clinic bill.

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RomanViking

 

As a European, holy f*cking wow at the views in here.

I'm not even a European and I'm saying the same thing. Anyone else notice a large amount of closed-minded one-way retardation coming out of J&H quite a bit?

 

Maybe it's just me. Anyway, J&H is a moron. Tried for treason? You f*cking idiot, I'd invite you to name one thing treasonous about guaranteeing all Americans have health insurance and care, but I don't want to bother reading any kind of sh*t you'll be spewing out of that hole connected to your malformed brain.

yeah, I agree with this statement 100%.

 

People like J&H seem to be the cause of most problems in this world. Socialism = sharing and equality wink.gif

 

I much prefer the ideas of Socialism over Capitalism. And Democracy has endless problems too J&H.

 

 

Lastly, Spinach posted:

 

user posted image

 

I feel like this picture is oddly appropriate.

 

It's a wonderful cartoon, so true.

 

 

 

I think it's just the after effects of the American vs. Russia crap from generations ago --- being passed down from J&H's grandfather to father to himself, therefore making him biased and blindly thinking anything even remotely related to Communism or Socialism is unquestionably evil suicidal.gif

 

 

 

I also think the opening post is too blindingly patriotic. I wonder if J&H ever accused Bush of treason? whatsthat.gif

 

Obama is obviously trying to slightly circumvent a broken system to create a better system for the future.

 

 

Yay for mild Socialism. I applaud you Obama for thinking forward cookie.gifcookie.gifcookie.gif

 

 

 

 

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illspirit

 

The thing I find ironic about this whole thing is all the Republicans screaming this is unconstitutional were the same ones cheering Bush on for signing the Patriot Act.

 

Also, to all you "100% free markets work" peeps. Know what an unregulated free market leads to? Price gouging. When there's only maybe 3 main insurance companies in this country they control the market, not the people. The fact that people think they have any control over a corporate entity boggles my mind. I guess we all want to feel like we have some control over our lives, but that's just stupid.

 

I'm willing to bet every single person who is up-in-arms about this bill has had health insurance their entire life. Go get sick without insurance and see which song you're singing. You don't think you pay for other people's care right now? Guess who fronts the bill when uninsured people go to the emergency room. I would much rather pay for those people to have preventative care (which is much, much cheaper) than pay for all the ER visits because they can't afford a regular clinic bill.

Yes, the Republicans crying about this who supported the so-called Patriot Act are quite amusing. Almost as amusing as the Democrats who cried for eight years about Bush shredding the Constitution but have no problem doing it when it's their team in charge. f*ck both of them.

 

As for price gouging, err, 9 times out of 10, price gouging is a result of an industry capturing regulation and setting the rules to raise the bar of entry too high for small competitors to enter a market, thus giving themselves an outright monopoly or a cartel status.

 

And while I'm more amused than "up in arms" at this point, I don't have insurance. Haven't had it in over a decade now, and have no intentions of buying it; mandate or not. If you're so keen on paying for it, will that be check, PayPal, or what? Or, by "pay for it," do you mean sending men with guns to take your neighbor's money to cover me? turn.gif

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Tornado Rex
The thing I find ironic about this whole thing is all the Republicans screaming this is unconstitutional were the same ones cheering Bush on for signing the Patriot Act.

 

Also, to all you "100% free markets work" peeps. Know what an unregulated free market leads to? Price gouging. When there's only maybe 3 main insurance companies in this country they control the market, not the people. The fact that people think they have any control over a corporate entity boggles my mind. I guess we all want to feel like we have some control over our lives, but that's just stupid.

 

I'm willing to bet every single person who is up-in-arms about this bill has had health insurance their entire life. Go get sick without insurance and see which song you're singing. You don't think you pay for other people's care right now? Guess who fronts the bill when uninsured people go to the emergency room. I would much rather pay for those people to have preventative care (which is much, much cheaper) than pay for all the ER visits because they can't afford a regular clinic bill.

Yes, the Republicans crying about this who supported the so-called Patriot Act are quite amusing. Almost as amusing as the Democrats who cried for eight years about Bush shredding the Constitution but have no problem doing it when it's their team in charge. f*ck both of them.

 

As for price gouging, err, 9 times out of 10, price gouging is a result of an industry capturing regulation and setting the rules to raise the bar of entry too high for small competitors to enter a market, thus giving themselves an outright monopoly or a cartel status.

 

And while I'm more amused than "up in arms" at this point, I don't have insurance. Haven't had it in over a decade now, and have no intentions of buying it; mandate or not. If you're so keen on paying for it, will that be check, PayPal, or what? Or, by "pay for it," do you mean sending men with guns to take your neighbor's money to cover me? turn.gif

You mean a monopoly like the insurance companies have over the American people? The problem right now is it's too late for a completely free market. We already have companies that are too big.

 

As for the whole "forced insurance thing". I don't really care if you don't want it. I've never been for forcing people to have insurance. However, if insurance is available to you, and priced fairy, you should have to pay for all of your care out of pocket. Not go to the ER when something bad happens so you don't have a pay for a clinic visit. I do believe that everyone who wants insurance should have access to it though. And by access I don't mean needing to get a second, or in some cases third job to afford coverage for you and your family.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

People like J&H seem to be the cause of most problems in this world. Socialism = sharing and equality 

 

I much prefer the ideas of Socialism over Capitalism. And Democracy has endless problems too J&H.

 

 

I love this forum, where would I be without blind insults put in my mouth over a whole ideology that has a 50/50 chance at working? I think I really did chose the right topic name "Oh, God".

 

I'd like you to cite where I said "Socialism is bad" in any of my tenure here. Let me make it easy for you, you can't. Now, sit down, and shut the f*ck up while I educate you.

 

1) Not all Americans will be covered under the new plan

 

2) If it's in the name of equality and "sharing", why are there 16,000 new IRS jackboot agents being hired to look over every single recieved income tax form to make sure we are all going to be paying?

 

3) Why is there a fine for opting out of the government's insurance plan? And why does the fine actually COST LESS than paying at the end of the year for the government plan? You get two cookies if you can actually answer this one by using an essay I wrote on here a couple of months back.

 

cookie.gif ... delicious, isn't it?

 

4) Why do all the new taxes that will be implemented start immediately, but the actual benefits will not start until 2013? Furthermore, why are there drastic cuts in Medicare and Medicaid that will start immediately? What? Don't you remember we already had socialized medicine?

 

5) Did you know that the already existing SOCIALIZED MEDICINE PROGRAM, Medicare/Medicaid, is actually the biggest denier of claims over any of the existing private insurers? This same one goes to Tornado Rex.

 

 

I think it's just the after effects of the American vs. Russia crap from generations ago --- being passed down from J&H's grandfather to father to himself, therefore making him biased and blindly thinking anything even remotely related to Communism or Socialism is unquestionably evil

 

Another blind insult. Good one, guy, enjoy being a budget liability.

 

@K^2: The House Democrats kind of used the Reconciliation process, by "tying" a fix bill to the Senate bill. Because they "tied" it to the main Senate bill, they figure voting yes on the Reconciliation bill also means they are voting yes to the whole Senate bill. Literally, they were making this sh*t up as they went along. If this isn't a blatant show that all this bill is is to build monuments to themselves, then I do not know what is, and I can see that it's workig quite well on many who are posting here.

 

ONE LAST NOTE OF PERSONAL STATE EXPERIENCE: In CT, we have an insurance program called "Husky" and it's for dependants. I went to the doctor yesterday without insurance and it cost me $65 for the visit and $8 for the medicine I recieved. Back in '06, I had to get the same medication, but with the "Husky" state insuracne program, and I STILL HAD TO CO-PAY $75. It was actually cheaper not only for me, but also for the state, to go to the doctor last week on my own accord and pay out of pocket than it was for me to have state insurance. Roman, want to know why? Because unlike what Obama tells you, not all doctors are greedy son of a bitches like he claims.

 

In simple bullet form, here it is again

-Go to doctor on your own (paying out of pocket): $65

-Go to the doctor with state provided insurance: $75, plus whatever the state ended up paying, and we can only wonder what the hell that is.

Edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420

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RomanViking

fine Jesus'En'Hitler420, I can't answer your points...

 

 

I think the US should just wipe everything and start over with a new system. Take the best ideas of Socialism, true Democracy, and create a better system.

 

The United States doesn't have a real Democracy, as only the rich can become leaders. The rich candidates are usually in bed with corporations and what-have-you.

 

In true Socialism, leaders are chosen from the general population, like a military draft almost. And if they're corrupt they can be given the boot and replaced very efficiently. I'd say that's the best possible system.

 

All the modern examples of Socialism are examples of the idea done the wrong way. Any negative examples of socialism are examples of a twisted Socialism turned into an almost dictatorship --- and that's not Socialism.

 

 

 

I will admit, without Capitalism, we wouldn't have great technology and internet and etc... , so it's not all bad.

 

If the world is to move forward in a positive way, we all need to create a new ideology. Learn the mistakes of Capitalism and Socialism, and create a sort of hybrid with "the best of both worlds" --- screw you Hannah Montana.

 

 

 

And the only examples of Socialism people can give, are examples of something not even being true Socialism. They were more like Dictatorships claiming to be socialist and generally corrupt.

 

And the US doesn't have democracy, as I've already said; and many have said before too. Only the rich can ever be in power here, and the system is like a horrible twisted joke.

 

 

And the "leader chosen thru a random draft" will not work at the moment, as too many people are sheep, or extremely biased. You might end up with a close-minded racist redneck. Or a biased Hispanic guy who only cares about other Hispanics. Yes, he could be booted the next day and randomly choose somebody else hopefully better --- but she might become corrupt --- booted again --- and it might take a while using the "random draft" system.

 

 

 

So I propose this:

people who do well in school and prove themselves as being good people, with an open, nearly completely unbiased mind, are put into a "second class". Anyone who can prove themselves can become a part of the second class, rich or extremely poor. All school and healthcare is provided for all people, so as to avoid the issues of our current system (only rich people having the chance of being leader). "Second class" people would receive no benefits. Their lives would continue as before.

 

 

It might even be anonymous, second class people may not even be informed they're second class unless they're drafted. This is so they're not corrupted and full of themselves.

 

 

In the end, the military-draft-style random draw of a new leader is chosen from that second class. But here's the real kicker: like 20% or more would be in this second class, and they would receive no benefits for being in the second class. Being a member of second class would only mean you performed well and proved yourself to be good and unbiased during the first 20 years of life or somethin...

 

 

........

 

 

The idea is that only decent, open-minded, hopefully unbiased, and generally intelligent, un-corrupt people become leaders.

 

 

 

 

It's not a perfect concept. But it's hella better than only having rich, corrupt guys be senator year after year... suicidal.gif

 

 

Yeah, I think socialism is great. And no I do not like Dictatorships. I just want equality, man. Sharing of wealth. And less of a haves vs. have nots idea of society.

 

 

 

 

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illspirit

 

You mean a monopoly like the insurance companies have over the American people? The problem right now is it's too late for a completely free market. We already have companies that are too big.

 

As for the whole "forced insurance thing". I don't really care if you don't want it. I've never been for forcing people to have insurance. However, if insurance is available to you, and priced fairy, you should have to pay for all of your care out of pocket. Not go to the ER when something bad happens so you don't have a pay for a clinic visit. I do believe that everyone who wants insurance should have access to it though. And by access I don't mean needing to get a second, or in some cases third job to afford coverage for you and your family.

Yes. Exactly like the insurance companies. Why do they have a monopoly (well, cartel, rather, since there is more than one)? Largely because it's illegal to purchase across State lines. And why are the so much more expensive in some States than others? Because various interests groups lobby the States to add more and more requirements. The insurance companies don't mind overselling policies which cover, say, acupuncture or gender reassignment because it's something they'll rarely ever have to pay out, and it makes it too expensive for a start-up to challenge them (let alone afford regulatory compliance).

 

9 times out of 10, again, the common denominator is state, not market, and the law of unintended consequences.

 

That said, you are probably right that it's too late for a free market to work at this point. All that's left top do now is wait for the system and dollar (as well as the other currencies) to crash under the weight of all the debt, and rebuild society from the ashes. tounge.gif

 

And, yes, I would much rather pay for my own care than have anyone else pay for it. If you can get Congress to pass a bill to opt out of any and all public funding, I'd be first in line to sign up.

 

 

Learn the mistakes of Capitalism and Socialism, and create a sort of hybrid with "the best of both worlds" -

So, in other words, sort of a Third Way between capitalism and socialism? Oh, wait. tounge.gif

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Mad Tony
I also think the opening post is too blindingly patriotic.

Ok, you've really got to stop doing this. While his post may have been a bit excessive (in my opinion anyway) there really was nothing to do with patriotism in there. All he did was state his strong dislike for the bill and the people pushing it forward.

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