Parallel storylines

[Dudepeel]

You know what I liked about IV's story? That it was not just one storyline, but three storylines with different protagonists. I loved the crossovers and cameos, how protagonists (many times unintentionaly) affected each other (especially Niko and Johnny, because TBoGT wasn't tied to IV and TLaD as much as TLaD to IV), and many references to other characters and events in other storylines. It also gave a feeling of bigger depth to story and city.

 

And why I'm posting this here? I was thinking - if parallel storylines worked in IV, why to not do the same thing in next GTA? And I'm not talking about DLCs again, next GTA could have two parallel storylines with two different protagonists right from the start, in the main game. Just make it like Episodes from Liberty City, only both storylines would be twice as long (around 50-60 missions in one story - 100-120 missions in whole game). Even on a small space of DLC, Dan Houser still managed to write an excellent story (at least in TLaD), so there is not a reason to fear that story would be worse because of less missions. It would also solve a bunch of other problems - for example, a lot of people (maybe not among GTA fans, but I heard enough of complaints so I should mention that) says that stories in almost all GTA games lose their pace in middle of the storyline. More concentrated storyline would prevent that. Another problem is seriousness of storyline or it's "over-the-topness". Why not to make one of the stories in the game gritty and serious, focused on story like The Lost and Damned and the other more light-hearted, focused on gameplay and "fun" like The Ballad of Gay Tony. Bam, everyone would be happy.

 

So, what do you think? Would you like parallel storylines in next GTA?

[Duxfever]

I would absolutely LOVE parallel storylines for not only the next GTA, but for the rest of the GTA series (except the handheld games). I just love it. There's so many good reasons why they should keep on doing sagas, like, it could bring different sides to the city that you haven't seen before, and it could make R* sh*tloads of $$$. And some others reasons, too.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with your "story-like-TLAD, fun-like-TBoGT" idea very much.

[NinjaHorse]

totally agree 100%. why stop at two protags though? why not 3/4?

 

you could have completely different characters with completely different backgrounds, completely different storylines but they all tie in with each other (and some could come into conjunction at the end of the game)

 

with clever writing it would be epic.

[Akavari]

they could go back to the original system where you could pick like 8 protagonists to play as. only now they would each have their own personality and storyline that would fit into the game.

[WF the Hobgoblin]

GTA: Pulp Fiction

 

I think parallel storylines would be great.

[Rucke]

I love parallel storylines. I've seen it in movies a couple of times but I think GTA was the first video game to introduce the idea. I loved it. You really experienced Liberty City from different views with the parallel stories. Not to mention, you will be able to fit more characters and fun missions in three storylines than one.

[Rhoda]

Parallel storylines would be great, not only in terms of playing either - it'll add depth and a new degree of experiencing a living, breathing city that IV offered us. With other things going on around at the same time, it'll give us the opportunity to maybe even get involved in a slice of it.

 

I'm not sure how it would work playing as more than one character at a time though. From what I could see, things could get messy, and you may dislike a current character to a point that you tend to lose interest in the missions because you feel redundant playing as them. I know that Niko, Johnny and Luis were designed as characters we should like, but it may not work that way for V should this come into play.

[Thatguy238]

I'm not sure how it would work playing as more than one character at a time though. From what I could see, things could get messy, and you may dislike a current character to a point that you tend to lose interest in the missions because you feel redundant playing as them. I know that Niko, Johnny and Luis were designed as characters we should like, but it may not work that way for V should this come into play.

Seriously?

 

I f*cking hated Johnny. I mean, you still root for him and his cause along with the brothers, but as a person Johnny is easily the biggest toolbag of the three.

[Not Volt Krueger]

I'm not sure how it would work playing as more than one character at a time though. From what I could see, things could get messy, and you may dislike a current character to a point that you tend to lose interest in the missions because you feel redundant playing as them. I know that Niko, Johnny and Luis were designed as characters we should like, but it may not work that way for V should this come into play.

Seriously?

 

I f*cking hated Johnny. I mean, you still root for him and his cause along with the brothers, but as a person Johnny is easily the biggest toolbag of the three.

How can you even say that? With Luis being the wanna tough-guy all the time, swearing at inappropriate conjuctions, being all "badass" around everybody then crying about how he wants out of the crime business and to be legit.

 

Luis was obviously the tool out of the bunch. Johnny nor Niko had an ego, tried to be all tough around everybody or sweared at inappropriate times to give themselves a macho image. They just went on about their lives and businesses like humble adults, even though they were by definition criminals.

 

OT: I hate the idea of multiple protagonists in one game. If you ask me the old system would be better, just having 3 completely whole games that tied together.

[Thatguy238]

Luis whined too much around his friends (especially when you do the drug wars missions with their repetitive dialogue making it seem as though Luis is a broken record) for sure, but as a whole I connected with his character. He wasn't a wanna-be tough guy, he WAS the sh*t. And ultimately his devotion and loyalty, and his no-nonsense directness in calling out Evan and people who he knew were there simply to screw over Gay Tony is what won me over.

 

Johnny, on the other hand, is a complete asshole. He treats everyone like sh*t. He has no loyalty; he can't wait to clamor his way back to being on top. It's like the SECOND Billy gets caught again Johnny immediately takes over. Sure, he's the least hypocritical of the three due to the fact that he feels no remorse for his actions, but as a result he comes off as a cold, heartless prick.

______________________________________________

 

I rather like how it was done here, where the DLC gives the other views of the city and different perspectives on the story. I do feel like the main game should focus on one viewpoint, though. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They should have the main story weave into a plot about a legitimately good guy cop in the corrupt justice system, then they SHOULD LET YOU PLAY AS A COP IN THE DLC.

 

Seriously, that would sell like hotcakes.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Thatguy238

[Duxfever]

I'm all for the cop protag, but how will the Wanted system work? DLC-wise, that is. If it's a different kind of game, like a Stories or Wars type, I had the idea before that they should keep the Wanted system, but replace cops with gang hit-squads. I'm not going in-depth on this as some should know what I'm talking about.

[Thatguy238]

I think a similar wanted system would make sense. I think it would work if you were given a bit more leeway in your crimes (i.e. bumping into a fellow cop car will simply incur them to yell at you), but even cops can't go on crazy killing sprees, they'd have the rest of the force on them immediately.

 

They could change the dialogue up a bit for the cops when they're chasing you to have it be a bit more believable, too.

 

"I always knew he'd snap."

 

I mean, it's a bit absurd that they all happen to know you but when you exit the wanted area, they forget about your crimes again. But I figured that it's not too much of a stretch considering that they currently forget Niko's face after a one-minute chase. Would it work?

[Not Volt Krueger]

Luis whined too much around his friends (especially when you do the drug wars missions with their repetitive dialogue making it seem as though Luis is a broken record) for sure, but as a whole I connected with his character. He wasn't a wanna-be tough guy, he WAS the sh*t. And ultimately his devotion and loyalty, and his no-nonsense directness in calling out Evan and people who he knew were there simply to screw over Gay Tony is what won me over.

 

Johnny, on the other hand, is a complete asshole. He treats everyone like sh*t. He has no loyalty; he can't wait to clamor his way back to being on top. It's like the SECOND Billy gets caught again Johnny immediately takes over. Sure, he's the least hypocritical of the three due to the fact that he feels no remorse for his actions, but as a result he comes off as a cold, heartless prick.

______________________________________________

 

I rather like how it was done here, where the DLC gives the other views of the city and different perspectives on the story. I do feel like the main game should focus on one viewpoint, though. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. They should have the main story weave into a plot about a legitimately good guy cop in the corrupt justice system, then they SHOULD LET YOU PLAY AS A COP IN THE DLC.

 

Seriously, that would sell like hotcakes.

That's like saying the character in SR is the "sh*t". They tried to make both him and Luis out to be such badasses that they just come off as arrogant assholes.

 

And clearly you're arrogantly running your mouth because nothing you said reflected to Johnny.

1. What did he do to treat everyone like sh*t? I'm pretty sure that guy killed like 500 people just to help out his friends in the Club.

2. How does he have no loyalty? He fought numerous gang wars for a war that his "friend" started for no reason. I'm pretty sure putting your life on the line just because a guy higher ranked than you says so is damn loyal.

3. Johnny takes over when Billy gets caught because he was the Vice President. In real life MC's if the President dies or goes MIA (prison, disappears) the VP automatically takes over. Thus by Johnny taking over Rockstar was just following what real MC's do, and had nothing to do with his strive to "clamor his way back to being on top" like you assume.

4. I'm pretty sure every GTA protagonist has to be somewhat of a cold, heartless prick. You kind of have to have that feel to murder countless people. But if he was so heartless why would he pay Jim's wife money after he died? And why would he help is ex-GF out of so many binds? All Luis did was try to clear debts because he was connected, and anything else he did involved profit in some way for himself. You clearly have the two's personas mixed up.

[gtaxtreme]

Parallel storylines is an excellent idea. I own a Playstation 3 and i am hardly able to give my thoughts and opinions on the characters of Grand Theft Auto IV yet. But i do believe it is a great thing to include in the "story mode" of games. I like it in films such as the already mentioned Pulp Fiction. I hope Rockstar include it in further Grand Theft Auto titles and make it something of a tradition. I know some of you may not agree, due to your opinions a previous characters. however this is only my opinion.

[Thatguy238]

 

And clearly you're arrogantly running your mouth

I thought we were having a friendly conversation, tone it down.

 

You don't think Johnny could've handled things better? Sure, Brian was a tool, but I felt pretty bad for him. He clearly had undying loyalty to Billy who just ended up using him. So when Billy gets taken in, Brian suspects Johnny. What does Johnny do? He basically calls Brian a bitch, suggests that he go f*ck himself, then immediately takes over the MC. Yeah, Brian is a tool, but he's a brother. Johnny does things so brashly and as we see in the game a sh*tLOAD of the MC turn on him. You don't think it's going to raise a few eyebrows when he immediately clamors back to full leadership of the MC WITHOUT bothering with any of the brothers? He gets the quick suggestion from Jim and he immediately takes over again.

 

Sure, all of the GTA characters are criminals, but I disagree that they all have to be pricks. Case in point, Niko. I hope that we can at least agree that Niko is the best and most likable protagonist of the bunch. If there's one main downfall in Rockstar's protagonist-writing in my eyes, it's that all three of them were given the SAME vice, that they're all somewhat buzzkills. But, IMO, Johnny took it to a new level. At times he even came off as lethargic. I felt like the only person he really truly connected with was Jim, and with everyone else he was a pain.

 

Luis made an attempt to crack jokes or to be somewhat diplomatic, PROVEN by the bit where he talks to Bulgarin's d-bag henchmen. EVEN with that guy, Luis tries his best to be friendly. Hell, even when he's clearly failed you can tell that he's bothered that they weren't able to at least become somewhat friendly. I seem to recall that Luis even told some jokes and came off friendly to Tony's group of drugy friends, even if he made his disdain for them clear. Johnny, on the other hand, I never really felt made an attempt.

 

And as a final point, I really liked the story of TLAD. I thought many of Johnny's weaknesses were necessary to creating a deep and believable storyline. However, that's not the question at hand here, the question is whether or not AS A PERSON he is likable.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Thatguy238

[Not Volt Krueger]

And clearly you're arrogantly running your mouth

I thought we were having a friendly conversation, tone it down.

 

You don't think Johnny could've handled things better? Sure, Brian was a tool, but I felt pretty bad for him. He clearly had undying loyalty to Billy who just ended up using him. So when Billy gets taken in, Brian suspects Johnny. What does Johnny do? He basically calls Brian a bitch, suggests that he go f*ck himself, then immediately takes over the MC. Yeah, Brian is a tool, but he's a brother. Johnny does things so brashly and as we see in the game a sh*tLOAD of the MC turn on him. You don't think it's going to raise a few eyebrows when he immediately clamors back to full leadership of the MC WITHOUT bothering with any of the brothers? He gets the quick suggestion from Jim and he immediately takes over again.

 

Sure, all of the GTA characters are criminals, but I disagree that they all have to be pricks. Case in point, Niko. I hope that we can at least agree that Niko is the best and most likable protagonist of the bunch. If there's one main downfall in Rockstar's protagonist-writing in my eyes, it's that all three of them were given the SAME vice, that they're all somewhat buzzkills. But, IMO, Johnny took it to a new level. At times he even came off as lethargic. I felt like the only person he really truly connected with was Jim, and with everyone else he was a pain.

 

Luis made an attempt to crack jokes or to be somewhat diplomatic, PROVEN by the bit where he talks to Bulgarin's d-bag henchmen. EVEN with that guy, Luis tries his best to be friendly. Hell, even when he's clearly failed you can tell that he's bothered that they weren't able to at least become somewhat friendly. I seem to recall that Luis even told some jokes and came off friendly to Tony's group of drugy friends, even if he made his disdain for them clear. Johnny, on the other hand, I never really felt made an attempt.

 

And as a final point, I really liked the story of TLAD. I thought many of Johnny's weaknesses were necessary to creating a deep and believable storyline. However, that's not the question at hand here, the question is whether or not AS A PERSON he is likable.

Man, you have your information so mixed up and imaginated that i'm not even going to bother replying. Practically everything you've said is blatently wrong.

 

Maybe you should go play both of the games again then state opinions not originated from vague memories. I myself just finished my second playthrough of TBOGT today and definitely know that Luis was the jerkoff, not Johnny. Johnny's attitude was generally cool and optimistic.

[Thatguy238]

 

Man, you have your information so mixed up and imaginated that i'm not even going to bother replying. Practically everything you've said is blatently wrong.

 

Imagined? Okay. Let me point out everything that I KNOW to be true from my last post. You can disagree with my points, fine, but blatantly stating that my facts are wrong WITHOUT ANYTHING to back you up is a bit "whaaaaaat?"-inducing for me.

 

FACT, Luis made an attempt to be friendly to Bulgarin's henchmen. This is absolutely true. There is a particular car ride sequence in particular that you need to replay, because it is, IMO of course, ABSOLUTELY crucial to Luis's character. Luis begins to talk to the man, and he basically gets shot down. Upset, Luis lashes out, and even after he arrogantly agrees that they'll continue the car ride in silence, he can't keep his mouth shut. On the way there, he continuously states things like, "Total f*cking silence."

 

FACT, Johnny takes back over the MC immediately after Billy gets taken in. FACT, he does so off of ONE suggestion from his closest ally, Jim. FACT, the next time we see a majority of the other brothers or Brian are when they are TURNING on you. There was no middle event there, one moment Johnny takes over the MC and the next moment everyone is turning on him.

 

There's only one specific fact in my post that I can't outright prove here, and that's that Luis attempted to say a joke to Tony's group of druggy friends. I'm almost positive that it happens. It's the cutscene for the mission, "FROSTING ON THE CAKE," where everyone is gathered at Tony's place. Unfortunately, I've been looking for a transcript or video of the cutscene, but nothing short of playing the game up to that point again can find me the exact quote.

 

There. I've backed up everything that I stated as a specific example in my last post. Everything else, as opinionated comments, you're free to disagree with. I'm down for continuing this conversation (despite you getting an awkwardly serious tone I'm still having fun discussing this), and if not I feel I've made my point.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Thatguy238

[Not Volt Krueger]

Here we go.

 

 

FACT, Luis made an attempt to be friendly to Bulgarin's henchmen. This is absolutely true. There is a particular car ride sequence in particular that you need to replay, because it is, IMO of course, ABSOLUTELY crucial to Luis's character. Luis begins to talk to the man, and he basically gets shot down. Upset, Luis lashes out, and even after he arrogantly agrees that they'll continue the car ride in silence, he can't keep his mouth shut. On the way there, he continuously states things like, "Total f*cking silence."

 

What exactly do jokes or friendly tones have to do with anything? Sure here or there they were thrown in for comic relief, but look at the other side. One example is when Mauri(i think) says something about Luis women, he goes all macho tough guy and says "blah blah you talk about my hoes i'll f*cking kill you blah blah". I'm pretty sure you have to be quite a jackass to say that about women that you demine in the first place. And they weren't GF's or wifes, they were just sluts he banged. This is a straight up example of how R* put way too much into making Luis seem like some tough guy, they tried so hard in fact that he just comes off as a tool. And he certainly isn't "nicer" than Johnny. I don't recall any moments where Johnny was insulted and he roared into some life-threatening rant, because he's too cool and humble for it.

 

 

FACT, Johnny takes back over the MC immediately after Billy gets taken in. FACT, he does so off of ONE suggestion from his closest ally, Jim. FACT, the next time we see a majority of the other brothers or Brian are when they are TURNING on you. There was no middle event there, one moment Johnny takes over the MC and the next moment everyone is turning on him.

 

FACT, it's real life MC law that the VP takes over the Chapter the second the President isn't capable. FACT, he does so because that's how the Biker world works, and Jim didn't suggest it, he said "I guess this means you have to take over". FACT, the brothers only turn on you because Brian thinks (and tells them) that Johnny phoned the police on Billy. As we all learn in TBOGT though he didn't, and Billy was trying to get Johnny and Jim killed in the first place anyways so he was better off locked up.

Johnny took over the MC because that's how the real life system works, and everyone turned on him because Brian told them unconfirmed information that Johnny was a rat and only wanted to be President.

 

 

There's only one specific fact in my post that I can't outright prove here, and that's that Luis attempted to say a joke to Tony's group of druggy friends. I'm almost positive that it happens. It's the cutscene for the mission, "FROSTING ON THE CAKE," where everyone is gathered at Tony's place. Unfortunately, I've been looking for a transcript or video of the cutscene, but nothing short of playing the game up to that point again can find me the exact quote.

Just because he pops a joke here or there doesn't mean he was a better person than Johnny. Overall he was over-aggressive, arrogant, and selfish. All the things Luis did were to clear depts he was connected to, all the things Johnny did were for the club or members in it. Luis was also mouthy and played macho man 24-7, where Johnny humbled himself throughout the entire game.

[CIR05]

 

"Mauri(i think) says something about Luis women, he goes all macho tough guy and says "blah blah you talk about my hoes i'll f*cking kill you blah blah".

 

 

 

 

Without any intention to offense hermano but i think you wrong there,Mori talks about Luis small "Hose" refering to Luis's Private part.not "Hoes"

 

Mori-"And i guess youre not packin a 10 inch hose"

Luis- "blah blah but you mention my hose again ill f-word-ing kill you"

 

[BrownBear]

i think that sounds fine, while personally i would prefer dlc i have no negative views towards your idea

 

maybe a police man for one story and the leader of a gang who he is trying to bring down, kind of like the wire, first finding out who he is and then hunting him down and the other doing his gang work, like mc nulty and avon barksdale

 

ps:that guy and volt krueger's argument

dont you guys think that opinion come into it? its not a fact that luis is a d**k and johnny isnt its opinion.

 

as for my opinion i havent really played either but from the videos i have seen, luis looks like a guy who doesnt get pushed around and stands up for his friends and johnny well i think his only really liking jim thing is good,i imagine bikers as being unsociable and distant, but he never really stands up for himself, i he didnt want to go to war with the angels then why did he kill more of them than any of the lost?

Edited February 9, 2010 by brownbear

[vincentmillidge]

i say a story based on either two partners in crime (Kane and Lynch, Jules and Vincent Vega, Tango and Cash, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, ) or two twisted psychotic lovers (Mickey and Mallory Knox, Bonnie and Clyde, Sid and Nancy, pumpkin and honeybunny). Both would be cool as f*ck. Also a fully co-op story line could be amazing

[Thatguy238]

 

What exactly do jokes or friendly tones have to do with anything? Sure here or there they were thrown in for comic relief, but look at the other side. One example is when Mauri(i think) says something about Luis women, he goes all macho tough guy and says "blah blah you talk about my hoes i'll f*cking kill you blah blah". I'm pretty sure you have to be quite a jackass to say that about women that you demine in the first place. And they weren't GF's or wifes, they were just sluts he banged. This is a straight up example of how R* put way too much into making Luis seem like some tough guy, they tried so hard in fact that he just comes off as a tool. And he certainly isn't "nicer" than Johnny. I don't recall any moments where Johnny was insulted and he roared into some life-threatening rant, because he's too cool and humble for it.

 

FACT, it's real life MC law that the VP takes over the Chapter the second the President isn't capable. FACT, he does so because that's how the Biker world works, and Jim didn't suggest it, he said "I guess this means you have to take over". FACT, the brothers only turn on you because Brian thinks (and tells them) that Johnny phoned the police on Billy. As we all learn in TBOGT though he didn't, and Billy was trying to get Johnny and Jim killed in the first place anyways so he was better off locked up.

Johnny took over the MC because that's how the real life system works, and everyone turned on him because Brian told them unconfirmed information that Johnny was a rat and only wanted to be President.

 

Just because he pops a joke here or there doesn't mean he was a better person than Johnny. Overall he was over-aggressive, arrogant, and selfish. All the things Luis did were to clear depts he was connected to, all the things Johnny did were for the club or members in it. Luis was also mouthy and played macho man 24-7, where Johnny humbled himself throughout the entire game.

 

As CIR05 pointed out, that quote you're talking about is simply a misunderstanding. No biggie.

 

As for Luis's lighter tone and ability to tell jokes, IMO it makes him far more personable than Johnny was. My point with the cutscene from FROSTING ON THE CAKE was that even though he despises all of those people in the room and their lifestyle, he was still friendly about it. His jokes weren't self-serving insults, they were legitimate jokes to try and ease the tension, to connect more with others, and to come off as friendly and to entertain the group.

 

You're right, that doesn't NECESSARILY make him a better person than Johnny, but it certainly makes him more likable, which was my original assertion. I was wrong to claim that Johnny had no loyalty, but that doesn't make him any less of a douche in my eyes. I do think it's a bit much as well to claim that Luis only did everything for himself; I thought it was pretty clear that he legitimately cared about Tony.

 

I think this debate has kind of run into the ground. Ultimately, it is absolutely an issue of opinion. You asserted that I made sh*t up, which is why I pursued this debate further, but other than that as brownbear stated it's mostly up to how you happened to connect with them on your playthrough.

[Doylinator]

GTA: Pulp Fiction

 

I think parallel storylines would be great.

what about "gta:sin city" ?

[vincentmillidge]

GTA: Pulp Fiction

 

I think parallel storylines would be great.

what about "gta:sin city" ?

Gta sin city would be amazing

[Wanted Assailant]

...

Edited July 5, 2010 by Wanted Assailant