Police AI

[RomanViking]

The police system should be completely remade IMO.

 

The actual AI of them should be the priority, then the whole "escape the flashing search area radius" right after.

 

Here is my list of why it needs to be redone. Please note that these are from my experiences at 4 stars or higher:

 

• Most of the time the police in their cars simply can't keep up, even if you go slowly. This results in...
• ...police consistently respawning ahead of the player. Which makes the chases...
• ...unexciting (because nobody is actually chasing you) and...
• ...frustrating (because no matter how good of a driver you are, no matter how many back alleys you take, or clever shortcuts you make - you simply can't lose them because they always respawn ahead of you!
• Also, even when you switch cars when no police are around, they'll instantly still know it's you

How to make it better:

 

• greatly improve the police car's "pathfinding", so they can actually handle swerving around traffic and going around corners without crashing EVERY SINGLE TIME.
• Stop respawning more cop cars ahead of the player! Instead make the cop cars behind the player SMARTER.
• I don't care how many fake internet sites you have to cut, make the cop cars capable of ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE PLAYER.

After 10 some years of these games, you'd think Rockstar would have gotten it's act together.

 

It's a sad day when fake internet sites are a higher priority than police AI, especially in a game called GRAND THEFT AUTO...

 

At least the SWAT guys are smart while on foot.

 

In conclusion, the police are good at gunning you down, but suck at actually chasing you. They should be good at both

 

 

[socal000]

I completely agree, after watching some of the GTA4 trailers before it's release, I got excited, like "wow look, the SWAT guys all organized and moving in a line, this will be great" but I was a bit disappointed in police AI, but yes, SWAT AI is pretty good. At least better than police.

[dragmetolibertycity]

The police system should be completely remade IMO.

 

The actual AI of them should be the priority, then the whole "escape the flashing search area radius" right after.

 

Here is my list of why it needs to be redone. Please note that these are from my experiences at 4 stars or higher:

• Most of the time the police in their cars simply can't keep up, even if you go slowly. This results in...
• ...police consistently respawning ahead of the player. Which makes the chases...
• ...unexciting (because nobody is actually chasing you) and...
• ...frustrating (because no matter how good of a driver you are, no matter how many back alleys you take, or clever shortcuts you make - you simply can't lose them because they always respawn ahead of you!
• Also, even when you switch cars when no police are around, they'll instantly still know it's you

How to make it better:

• greatly improve the police car's "pathfinding", so they can actually handle swerving around traffic and going around corners without crashing EVERY SINGLE TIME.
• Stop respawning more cop cars ahead of the player! Instead make the cop cars behind the player SMARTER.
• I don't care how many fake internet sites you have to cut, make the cop cars capable of ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE PLAYER.

After 10 some years of these games, you'd think Rockstar would have gotten it's act together.

 

It's a sad day when fake internet sites are a higher priority than police AI, especially in a game called GRAND THEFT AUTO...

 

At least the SWAT guys are smart while on foot.

 

In conclusion, the police are good at gunning you down, but suck at actually chasing you. They should be good at both

I think you underestimate the difficulty of programming a video game.

[supermortalhuman]

I agree that it could be better, in all of the ways you mention, but don't take away from one aspect to serve the correction of another I, for one, like those websites for their novelty when you first ever get bored in LC or first find the terminal.

 

I think the cops chase well and good on certain occasions, and then on others, like bridges it's most obvious, as you said ,they spawn in front of you. You can usually park and watch it move around all retarded until your meter is gone and you can zip by.

 

I'm absolutely sure that with all the things addressed from III to IV that they want to correct this or improve it, but it probably just isn't time yet - the cops DO present a pretty decent challenge, and the game is more about avoiding a wanted level than getting one, so I dunno.

[socal000]

 

The police system should be completely remade IMO.

 

The actual AI of them should be the priority, then the whole "escape the flashing search area radius" right after.

 

Here is my list of why it needs to be redone. Please note that these are from my experiences at 4 stars or higher:

 

 

Most of the time the police in their cars simply can't keep up, even if you go slowly. This results in...

 

 

...police consistently respawning ahead of the player. Which makes the chases...

 

 

...unexciting (because nobody is actually chasing you) and...

 

 

...frustrating (because no matter how good of a driver you are, no matter how many back alleys you take, or clever shortcuts you make - you simply can't lose them because they always respawn ahead of you! 

 

 

Also, even when you switch cars when no police are around, they'll instantly still know it's you 

 

 

How to make it better:

 

 

greatly improve the police car's "pathfinding", so they can actually handle swerving around traffic and going around corners without crashing EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

 

Stop respawning more cop cars ahead of the player! Instead make the cop cars behind the player SMARTER.

 

 

I don't care how many fake internet sites you have to cut, make the cop cars capable of ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE PLAYER.

 

 

After 10 some years of these games, you'd think Rockstar would have gotten it's act together. 

 

It's a sad day when fake internet sites are a higher priority than police AI, especially in a game called GRAND THEFT AUTO...

 

At least the SWAT guys are smart while on foot.

 

In conclusion, the police are good at gunning you down, but suck at actually chasing you. They should be good at both

I think you underestimate the difficulty of programming a video game.

Improving police AI would be one of the easier things on a list of changes. I have made modifications for a different game and adding spawn point to appear 50ft behind player is not hard, neither is editing vehicle paths so that police will only use roads. I'm just an ordinary modder, the people making GTA are professionals who are payed to do that.

[--Insan!ty--]

@OP, good ideas.

 

I personally think the police should run alot faster, I want to be sh*tting myself worrying that a cop's gonna tackle me to the floor if I don't steal a car - pronto.

 

They should be able to vault over walls etc like real cops do if criminals take shortcuts etc.

[dragmetolibertycity]

The police system should be completely remade IMO.

 

The actual AI of them should be the priority, then the whole "escape the flashing search area radius" right after.

 

Here is my list of why it needs to be redone. Please note that these are from my experiences at 4 stars or higher:

 

 

 

Most of the time the police in their cars simply can't keep up, even if you go slowly. This results in...

 

 

 

...police consistently respawning ahead of the player. Which makes the chases...

 

 

 

...unexciting (because nobody is actually chasing you) and...

 

 

 

...frustrating (because no matter how good of a driver you are, no matter how many back alleys you take, or clever shortcuts you make - you simply can't lose them because they always respawn ahead of you! 

 

 

 

Also, even when you switch cars when no police are around, they'll instantly still know it's you 

 

 

 

How to make it better:

 

 

 

greatly improve the police car's "pathfinding", so they can actually handle swerving around traffic and going around corners without crashing EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

 

 

Stop respawning more cop cars ahead of the player! Instead make the cop cars behind the player SMARTER.

 

 

 

I don't care how many fake internet sites you have to cut, make the cop cars capable of ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE PLAYER.

 

 

 

After 10 some years of these games, you'd think Rockstar would have gotten it's act together. 

 

It's a sad day when fake internet sites are a higher priority than police AI, especially in a game called GRAND THEFT AUTO...

 

At least the SWAT guys are smart while on foot.

 

In conclusion, the police are good at gunning you down, but suck at actually chasing you. They should be good at both

I think you underestimate the difficulty of programming a video game.

Improving police AI would be one of the easier things on a list of changes. I have made modifications for a different game and adding spawn point to appear 50ft behind player is not hard, neither is editing vehicle paths so that police will only use roads. I'm just an ordinary modder, the people making GTA are professionals who are payed to do that.

right modding and programming are two different things, if rockstar could have improved police AI significantly without sacrificing too much on other aspects, they would have done so by now.

[El Vlado]

There is alot that is needed to make the chases much more pleasing, challenging and fun. In real life, the police have quite sophisticated chase techniques. I have been waiting a very long time to see the police chase mproved in the GTA series, heck since GTA III, but really the only thing that they have done is just add more guns to it. A combination of research for road blocks, smart tactical menouvres for police, spikestrips and such to stop a suspect, while the helicopter providing support should be done. On Vice City, if anyone remembers, there was spike strips. Wasn't it challenging to have all your tyres shredded because of the cops who layed them? It was quite ad-hoc, in Vice City the chases were easy as well, though the spike strips made it much more challenging.

 

In my opinion the ideal police chase would consist of cruisers chasing the suspect vehicle, attempting PIT menouvres (as currently they do), projecting the course of the suspect to setup spikestrips, car or concrete roadblocks, and/or both (via a system of which road you are on, how fast you are travelling, possible exit/entry points, etc). The helicopter would be reconnaissance until level 4 or 5 (hence keeping you lit up) in which it will shoot if it can get a shot. The faster the vehicles, the faster the police car should chase you (for example, this could only come out 2 stars +). I.e. Infernus vs. Police Cruiser = fail, Infernus vs. Banshee = decent. Humvee's for added power for PIT menouvres. NOOSE vans would be (like rl SWAT) apparent at shootouts, and in combat. I don't think I have ever seen a SWAT van ever chase a car Each raise in wanted level would and should create an increase in the sophistication of police AI. The police system could also include, as the suspect goes further wanted, to be circulated in the radio (Weazel News) for example. Hence, some civilians if they see you in description of vehicle/appearance, might run away and call the police. Police spawns should not occur frequently, because those units in pursuit should have the capability to stay with the suspect (i.e. chasing an Infernus, they are Banshee's). If more units are requested, they should have a delay (as per the time that would take from the nearest police station, to travel there with lights and sirens on, and therefore they would appear on that route from which they came). This would allow you to shake the pursuers, using driving skills, going through alleys (where 6 cars can't travel), tough terrain, opposite sides of streets and in obstacle-riddled territory to create an opportunity to be out of site, perhaps slipping into another getaway car and continue your escape, or to just shake the attention. In my opinion that would create a really challenging and fun police chase.

 

I have seen that sometimes the police on GTA IV box you up and you can't move (probably on accident but nevertheless awesome), but I'd like to see more concerted efforts by the police in chases. The police at the moment (on GTA IV) eventually give up if you go too fast (and hence making police spawn in front of you). If you decide that you want them to actually chase you, you basically have to slow down to crawling speed, basically making the police camera on GTAIV useless; So the question is, where is the awesome high speed pursuits that we've always wanted?

 

I have seen many games have great chases, one only has to look at the latest Need For Speed series to see some really great police chases. Though the best police chases I have had was from a game called

on the xbox 360, they were extremely engaging and alot of fun. If they added some of the AI that they did on that, and with some of the awesome police chases that you can get out of Need For Speed, then it'll be great. For a great police chase system, to top up the advances that have occurred in GTA IV, it would make an extremely pleasurable experience. I'm sorry, but it is really hard to complain about programming for good police chases when you only need to look at Need for Speed III. It is old, its simple, but still had some of the best police chases I have seen in any game

 

Though to think realistically, I doubt the system for GTA will be changed, perhaps they will put some minor changes only. Why do I say this? This is because the whole system for the Police would have to change. Most likely it would be much stricter on the player (i.e. red lights, speed, etc.) and they would have to change the fact that police throughout the GTA series wanted to kill the suspect, and to now make the police aim at arresting the suspect, and only kill if dangerous I think thats probably the thing stopping any revolution of the system, because whats the use of a chase if your interest is killing the target? If you think about it now on GTA IV, the higher the wanted level, more cops, more roadblocks, etc occur. But if you removed all the firepower, it would be relatively easy, because the cops in the vehicles are hopeless. The only thing that stops you on 6 stars is the fact that every police officer, everywhere, is shooting at you And even that is relative to bypass. Hence because it has been the classic foundation of the game for so long, I doubt they will change it, however awesome it would be to have awesome police chases on a GTA game.

Edited November 25, 2009 by El Vlado

[General Goose]

Yeah, the AI needs a complete renewal. I would also appreciate the (at least partial) removal of police stupidity and overreacting-e.g resisting arrest for drunk driving should not get you shot.

[Akavari]

-i want the cops to be less bloodthirsty, like you should have to do a lot before they resort to using their pistols.

-thinner density of cops, like you will only go against 1-2 cruisers at any given time.

-they need to scrap the whole wanted radius thing, it's just bullsh*t. instead you should have to get out of their sight for like 10 seconds or maybe a scaling duration depending on how many stars you have.

-you should be able to get out of sight and switch cars, or park your car in an alley and watch the cops drive by unaware.

-for very petty crimes like hitting peds or fender-bending a cop car you should only get a fine, and then if you resist or can't pay they arrest you

[supermortalhuman]

 

"instead you should have to get out of their sight for like 10 seconds or maybe a scaling duration depending on how many stars you have."

 

That's exactly what the radius is. You can't merely get out of their site, it's too easy. They would still be searching the vicinity.

 

That radius has also been there in some form or another at least since GTA III, even if it didn't operate exactly the same (nor did it give the user visual feedback of what was occurring - probably because it didn't quite work well yet or something, but it was there in some shape or form)

 

You currently get out of their sight after leaving their radius and about ten seconds later you are free.

 

I agree it should be less cops, and the cops should be exausted entirely after you've killed enough, at least for a while.

 

In GTA right now, you can't fight them all off and buy time, every one you kill just creates another one - it's run run run, there needs to be a way to actually beat them.

 

I mean, I know the cops are not supposed to be a huge part of the game and more like a side-enemy/nuisance "just doing their job" against yours, but still.

[Mister Pink]

Yeah man.

 

I liked the Driv3r system - Face recognition and car recognition meters. They also had the original circle of police awareness except more in depth.

 

For example, the police would chase a 'black Sentinel' but so long as you dont get out of the car, they can't get a positive ID on you. If you go down an alley, hop out of the black Sentinel without the cops seeing you and hop into another vehicle they don't know what car they're looking for. The one you drive off in is not hot.

 

If you are seen exiting that black Sentinel your face recognition meter goes up.

 

Something like that would make me happy.

[RomanViking]

Thanks everyone for the responses Especially El Vlado, best response I've read in a long time

 

Okay, I don't want to disrespect anyone who enjoys GTA for the various other reasons, but:

 

For me personally, I only really play GTA for one reason, pissing off the cops & trying to lose them

 

This is basically what attracted me to GTA III in the first place, my cousin told me it was like Driver 2, only you could use guns while evading cops! While I later came to like the detailed play areas, I was always just wanting to recapture the car chase vibe from Driver for original Playstation.

 

My feelings are that Rockstar should have mastered the car chase thing long before even thinking about adding helicopters or in-game internet...

 

Is this Grand theft Auto, or Second Life?

 

ThePinkFloydSound, I think you're thinking of Driver Parallel Lines., Driv3r only had the police "vision cones". Ironically, I had more fun with Driv3r - while the police often relied on rubber band AI to keep up, at least they could keep up

[El Vlado]

No problem RomanViking It definitely needs better chases and that comprehensive post put some ideas across. So I took the time to make the post

 

Driver's chases were great as well, and really fun. Though the argument that states that GTA is less about the police then the other things in the game, is quite laughable because GTA means "Grand Theft Auto", the follow up of that is the police response. From GTA 1 the emphasis was on the police response, in lieu with the criminal actions that you did. Clear example of this is the response of dealing drugs in GTA Chinatown Wars. After the missions are completed and the story finished, the only thing that made you want to play is the thrill of the chase, and of being wanted. Some of my best memories of GTA has been 20 minute cop chases, not necessarily the missions

 

I look forward to keep reading more of the replies in this thread because of the importance of the topic, unless it dies.

[spaceeinstein]

I thought the way the police cars chases the player is perfect. Have you seen or played with lots of people online trying to chase you? They also keep on crashing and doing weird things that you would thought an AI would be doing. Improving the way they chase a little would be good enough. Improve it too much and it would suck that the police can swerve around obstacles better than you do.

 

I never had the problem of the police spawning in front of you, except the scripted ones on foot. I don't know if it's just the PC version but cop cars rarely just pop up in the radar and give chase.

Edited November 26, 2009 by spaceeinstein

[Claude4Catalina]

Faster cars is a must for Police equipment. I'm not saying use Inferni's etc, but maybe for every 5 police cruisers tailing you, there should be one Banshee in police colours, and you should only really get 5 cruisers after you in prolonged chases, not just for killing 5 civilians and attempting an esacpe. Two cops in Crown Vics could easily tackle the criminal and arrest or shoot to kill them.

[DanManUtd]

I think there should be a felony system like there was in Driver, except it deteriorates over time. So if you're driving a 'hot' car, the police will chase you.

[AnotherDave]

I think there should be a felony system like there was in Driver, except it deteriorates over time. So if you're driving a 'hot' car, the police will chase you.

Or like the system that will be used in Mafia II, where the police can recognise the vehicle you are driving and/or the clothes you're wearing.

[TheBruceter]

I'v always liked the 'hot car' idea. Would add that bit more to it

 

And yeah i agree, cops do need to be able to keep up with you, rather than just crashing, then causing a pile up of cop cars

[Mister Pink]

I agree it should be less cops, and the cops should be exausted entirely after you've killed enough, at least for a while.

 

In GTA right now, you can't fight them all off and buy time, every one you kill just creates another one - it's run run run, there needs to be a way to actually beat them.

 

I mean, I know the cops are not supposed to be a huge part of the game and more like a side-enemy/nuisance "just doing their job" against yours, but still.

Yeah man. In GTA cops are infinite. You should definately be able to buy more time if you kill all the cops in the vicinity.

[supermortalhuman]

Also, I totally agree about hot car vs car switching.

 

In IV, I often find myself getting close to changing cars for that purpose and then I remember "oh wait, the cops are psychic"

 

Or, you know, every single car is locked thus every single car requires a broken window and 90% have alarms - whats up with THAT? Shouldn't there be at least a few unlocked cars (that are not unlocked just because they are there for niko or missions like cars at faustins, etc) and a few cars that are without an alarm (those exists, but not nearly enough)

[Jessica NCT]

Something I'd love to see - roadblocks that actually block the road - in GTA:CTW, I once saw a roadblack covering half the road! Now that was really hard to get past. :rolleyes:

[Akavari]

Say you are in a building with 4 stars and there is an army of police outside... once you go out and wipe them all out then there should be a period where there are no cops at all since you just killed an entire department's worth of police. I mean in real life there would be some sort of confusion in the chain of command until other departments came or national guard had to step in

[El Vlado]

 

Say you are in a building with 4 stars and there is an army of police outside... once you go out and wipe them all out then there should be a period where there are no cops at all since you just killed an entire department's worth of police. I mean in real life there would be some sort of confusion in the chain of command until other departments came or national guard had to step in

lol exactly Oh wait, thats right they parachuted from the sky and saved the day from the evil terrorists

 

The police should have time to count their losses and then again dispatch from the police department, not just randomly parachute NOOSE vans and a hundred police cars. I agree Jessica, definately roadblocks need to be fixed, its not that hard to make. The one's on CTW are flimsy, the one's on GTA IV have lots of weaknesses as well. Though I don't know about the PC version of GTA IV, but certainly on the xbox 360 the police spawn in front of you, or behind instantly. It is quite dodgy, and unrealistic.

 

I hope they do another leap in reinventing the police system, while also including the police chases as well.

[RomanViking]

BUMP! (due to lack of support for important topics, and raving over unimportant topics like yet another Vice City thread, I though I should bring this back to page one)

 

About roadblocks, I agree that they should do a better job covering the whole street, not leaving gaps at the sidewalks and such...

 

...But at the same time I want to be able to plow right through them!

 

I like crossing the Algonquin bridge, driving towards Algonquin at 4+ stars at high speed...

 

...And as you're going downhill off the bridge back into the city you have to plow right through a massive roadblock of police cars.

 

Nothing pisses me off more than trying to get through a wall off SWAT trucks, and ending up flying thru the windshield. Only police cars should be used IMO. Otherwise you can't get through without another SWAT truck or somethin.

[Lizard_King]

in the next GTA if you see a police roadblock ahead, you should literally consider turning around unless you are ready for some intense bullet dodging combat, not just drive through and laugh at them on the way out.

[Useless Dave]

BUMP! (due to lack of support for important topics, and raving over unimportant topics like yet another Vice City thread, I though I should bring this back to page one)

 

About roadblocks, I agree that they should do a better job covering the whole street, not leaving gaps at the sidewalks and such...

 

...But at the same time I want to be able to plow right through them!

 

I like crossing the Algonquin bridge, driving towards Algonquin at 4+ stars at high speed...

 

...And as you're going downhill off the bridge back into the city you have to plow right through a massive roadblock of police cars.

 

Nothing pisses me off more than trying to get through a wall off SWAT trucks, and ending up flying thru the windshield. Only police cars should be used IMO. Otherwise you can't get through without another SWAT truck or somethin.

You call this topic, such a petty complaint 'important'? Oh Lord.

 

Heaven forbid they try to stop you on the road by using tanks.

 

You complain about the game not being realistic, but then want to take that, a realistic tactic, out.

[visionist]

BUMP! (due to lack of support for important topics, and raving over unimportant topics like yet another Vice City thread, I though I should bring this back to page one)

 

About roadblocks, I agree that they should do a better job covering the whole street, not leaving gaps at the sidewalks and such...

 

...But at the same time I want to be able to plow right through them!

 

I like crossing the Algonquin bridge, driving towards Algonquin at 4+ stars at high speed...

 

...And as you're going downhill off the bridge back into the city you have to plow right through a massive roadblock of police cars.

 

Nothing pisses me off more than trying to get through a wall off SWAT trucks, and ending up flying thru the windshield. Only police cars should be used IMO. Otherwise you can't get through without another SWAT truck or somethin.

You call this topic, such a petty complaint 'important'? Oh Lord.

 

Heaven forbid they try to stop you on the road by using tanks.

 

You complain about the game not being realistic, but then want to take that, a realistic tactic, out.

How about they only use a comparable vehicle to what you are driving?

 

If you are in a car they use cars to roadblock. If you are in a truck they use SWAT vans. The game responding to the player's moves for the sake of fun challenge.

 

Think about it, the whole game could follow this formula.