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DYOM file editor (polling for interest)


NTAuthority

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NTAuthority

Hi,

 

I'm planning to make a standalone file editor/viewer for DYOM files, which could expand the possibilities of DYOM by quite a bit. For example, think of the use cases in this list:

 

- Modification of TEXT sections without chances of doing it wrong because of using a editor meant for text files

- Mission prototyping for people who develop missions the 'regular' way (perhaps even using 'templates' to directly export a copy/paste Sanny/other method section)

- Eventually, possibly a DYOM-to-usable Sanny conversion...

 

This post is just checking if there's any interest, so I won't waste my time making it. Also, it would help a lot if I could get a compiled .scm file containing Sanny's 'VARS' section, like DYOM4 had - manually trying to figure out the old var names plus new ones is a bit annoying, and only supporting DYOM4 files would also be a 'bad idea' tounge.gif

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Kratos2000

Patrick&Dutchy already workin on it. (They wrote it in the DYOM V5 Release topic/Trailer topic)

Ask them if you can join to the project

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NTAuthority
Patrick&Dutchy already workin on it. (They wrote it in the DYOM V5 Release topic/Trailer topic)

No, they have not said that in any of those two topics. However, reading through the topics did make me find out they were planning on releasing usable source code, but I haven't seen any mention of that since...

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We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

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NTAuthority

 

and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands.

Which part of 'standalone' don't you understand? Oh, or you're not even interested in somebody even making tools for your mod? I thought it shows that people care enough about your mod that much that they want to invest time in improving the experience... and creating a tool to edit an existing file format has never sounded illegal. Anyway, I've posted about a similar idea a few months ago as well, but it was simply ignored, including asking for anything I needed to note about before distributing it.

 

I could make this tool just for myself, since I need something for this type of mission prototyping for a project of mine anyway, and DYOM is the only UI that has such functions existing outside of R*.

 

 

Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

 

 

Okay, so posting an idea you have about another application/mod/whatever requires permission first? (I haven't even started writing the tool yet wink.gif ) Strange; I'm talking about a standalone application here -- what's next, posting a reply to a question requires permission? tounge.gif (just joking about that, I hope you know tounge.gif )

 

I'm sorry if I'm sound a little harsh in this reply, but I don't think you understood the idea correctly. Anyway, it doesn't even require modification of the modification itself, though the var names could be quite useful. I used the VARS section from DYOM4.1 once to have a basic impression of the file format (and made a tool able to read it), but since it's changed for DYOM5, that information doesn't make much sense anymore... by the way, are you still planning on releasing the source code for DYOM5?

 

Edit: It might be the 'appropriateness' has been caused by posting a new topic in the DYOM forum that's not about a mission, but the rules didn't say anything about this being prohibited.

Edited by NTAuthority
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and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands.

Which part of 'standalone' don't you understand? Oh, or you're not even interested in somebody even making tools for your mod? I thought it shows that people care enough about your mod that much that they want to invest time in improving the experience... and creating a tool to edit an existing file format has never sounded illegal. Anyway, I've posted about a similar idea a few months ago as well, but it was simply ignored, including asking for anything I needed to note about before distributing it.

 

No, we don't like the idea of external tools being made while the mod is still under development, if they provide functionality for our mod that we might want to incorporate in the future versions of our mod/website ourself. Another issue is that with external tools available releasing new versions (with changes in the file format) will become more cumbersome and supporting users will become harder when they have been editing their missions with external tools, which may introduce faults of their own into the mission files.

And I haven't said anywhere that creating a tool would be illegal, but I don't think it will bring you much respect in the modding community if you should proceed against the wish of the authors of the mod that you are using/extending.

 

 

I could make this tool just for myself, since I need something for this type of mission prototyping for a project of mine anyway, and DYOM is the only UI that has such functions existing outside of R*.
Using other peoples work has never been a problem if it is just for own personal use, but as soon as you plan to release or distribute it, you should have permission of the original authors.

 

 

Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

 

 

Okay, so posting an idea you have about another application/mod/whatever requires permission first? (I haven't even started writing the tool yet wink.gif ) Strange; I'm talking about a standalone application here -- what's next, posting a reply to a question requires permission? tounge.gif (just joking about that, I hope you know tounge.gif )

 

What I was trying to say is, that when you want to expand on a mod that is still being actively developed, it's more appropriate to first contact the authors to find out whether or not they have plans to add that functionality themself.

 

I'm sorry if I'm sound a little harsh in this reply, but I don't think you understood the idea correctly. Anyway, it doesn't even require modification of the modification itself, though the var names could be quite useful. I used the VARS section from DYOM4.1 once to have a basic impression of the file format (and made a tool able to read it), but since it's changed for DYOM5, that information doesn't make much sense anymore... by the way, are you still planning on releasing the source code for DYOM5?

I think I fully understand your idea, and I just happen to oppose it.

On the source code release: We have been discussing this and we haven't reached a final decision yet. The problem is that when the sources are released, it is likely that people will add their own extensions and that various (incompatible) versions of DYOM will start to circulate. And this will ruin one of the great aspects of the mod, namely that you can share the missions you've created, and that all other people can play them.

 

 

Edit: It might be the 'appropriateness' has been caused by posting a new topic in the DYOM forum that's not about a mission, but the rules didn't say anything about this being prohibited.

No, that was not the reason, as I explained above. There's room for all kind of discussion concerning DYOM in the DYOM forum.

 

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NTAuthority
No, we don't like the idea of external tools being made while the mod is still under development, if they provide functionality for our mod that we might want to incorporate in the future versions of our mod/website ourself.

Obviously, it's not like other people can read your and Dutchy's minds, so I didn't even know some of these features were even planned - the data exporting for 'regular' coding in fact seems to contradict the main purpose of DYOM.

 

 

Another issue is that with external tools available releasing new versions (with changes in the file format) will become more cumbersome and supporting users will become harder when they have been editing their missions with external tools, which may introduce faults of their own into the mission files.

 

 

Various developers make revisions to their own file formats, and any external tools need to be updated - that is a fact. But another thing is that the original application developers shouldn't need to consider any unofficial tools; even Rockstar does this, while they know there are tons of external tools.

 

The second part, this is already being done - editing parts of DYOM .dat files using a text editor, and using a tool specifically made for the binary file format leaves less room for errors. Anyway, you could just refuse support for mission files that have been edited, like is already done in the GTA Series section for modded installations.

 

 

And I haven't said anywhere that creating a tool would be illegal, but I don't think it will bring you much respect in the modding community if you should proceed against the wish of the authors of the mod that you are using/extending.

 

 

And I don't feel it's that good an idea to actively oppose this... isn't there some unwritten rule a developer should not prevent file format interoperability?

 

 

Using other peoples work has never been a problem if it is just for own personal use, but as soon as you plan to release or distribute it, you should have permission of the original authors.

 

 

I'm not modifying or redistributing the main DYOM application code, that's not an issue... file format specifications are usually exempt from this type of restrictions, just like reverse engineering is not prohibited in Europe at least... and disassembling the compiled code for interoperability purposes would likely fall under that name, even though the original code was written in a similar language as well.

 

 

What I was trying to say is, that when you want to expand on a mod that is still being actively developed, it's more appropriate to first contact the authors to find out whether or not they have plans to add that functionality themself.

 

 

... 'external' tool. wink.gif Most software developers actually support third-party extension of their applications, even when they are planning to implement some features themselves; the official implementation of that feature usually removes the need for anyone to use the external feature. And again, the data export feature seems unlikely, and the Sanny exporting is something many users have been waiting for, you might even have some code ready for that, but again, it's not known to the public anywhere - the only thing that is thought about that is 'they're not even working on it'.

 

 

I think I fully understand your idea, and I just happen to oppose it.

 

 

Which is just completely against normal logical reasoning. tounge.gif

 

 

On the source code release: We have been discussing this and we haven't reached a final decision yet. The problem is that when the sources are released, it is likely that people will add their own extensions and that various (incompatible) versions of DYOM will start to circulate. And this will ruin one of the great aspects of the mod, namely that you can share the missions you've created, and that all other people can play them.

 

 

Many applications that have been developed as open-source all along have modified versions which have incompatible file formats. It's indeed something you can't get around, but shipping a version of the source code which is not compilable (or misses the code to write the mission data with a 'correct-ish' version number, restrictions like MTA uses as well) would prevent that problem. Too bad there's no SC-compatible XML parser, that'd remove part of the compatibility issues if used sad.gif

 

 

No, that was not the reason, as I explained above. There's room for all kind of discussion concerning DYOM in the DYOM forum.

 

 

Okay, that was just a misunderstanding from my part. Anyway, that sentence might contradict your previous notice that triggered that response... ideas should be welcomed, not opposed tounge.gif

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Kratos2000
Which is just completely against normal logical reasoning. tounge.gif

 

What you don't understand about the facts that people who made modes, games or everything else, DON'T want other people to take control on they're project? they want to keep the project on they're hands.

 

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NTAuthority
What you don't understand about the facts that people who made modes, games or everything else, DON'T want other people to take control on they're project? they want to keep the project on they're hands.

And what do you not understand about that my plan is just a standalone, unofficial application that the DYOM developers shouldn't even have to worry about? Creating an external server management tool for game server applications using the protocol from released source code would also be 'taking over' the project? Honestly, that's not even my intention... my intention is to create a tool that works with the files created by DYOM, nothing more - and such a tool would bother the official DYOM project as much as all your missions do :\

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Asyraf File
Which is just completely against normal logical reasoning. tounge.gif

 

What you don't understand about the facts that people who made modes, games or everything else, DON'T want other people to take control on they're project? they want to keep the project on they're hands.

Maybe biggrin.gifdozingoff.gif

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  • 7 months later...
Cesar homie
Hi,

 

I'm planning to make a standalone file editor/viewer for DYOM files, which could expand the possibilities of DYOM by quite a bit. For example, think of the use cases in this list:

 

- Modification of TEXT sections without chances of doing it wrong because of using a editor meant for text files

- Mission prototyping for people who develop missions the 'regular' way (perhaps even using 'templates' to directly export a copy/paste Sanny/other method section)

- Eventually, possibly a DYOM-to-usable Sanny conversion...

 

This post is just checking if there's any interest, so I won't waste my time making it. Also, it would help a lot if I could get a compiled .scm file containing Sanny's 'VARS' section, like DYOM4 had - manually trying to figure out the old var names plus new ones is a bit annoying, and only supporting DYOM4 files would also be a 'bad idea' tounge.gif

cool,I have the same idea,can be usefull to add new things writing lines of script code

to make things wich is not posible with dyom,I could grab a code from SA script and stick it up onto my Dyom mission

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Cesar homie
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

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Kratos2000
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

You fool, he is the developer, he and Dutchy3010 created DYOM

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Cesar homie
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

You fool, he is the developer, he and Dutchy3010 created DYOM

You puto,I mean game developers,they have fired torchas and I bet if they read this stuff they wiil send their lawiers and burn your house up,and maybe smash their ginger heads too.

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Matheus Reis
I like DYOM, but a newer version would be awesome... LOL. biggrin.gif

Yeah man, a newer version would be awesome!! colgate.gif

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Drift-Kingz
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

You fool, he is the developer, he and Dutchy3010 created DYOM

You puto,I mean game developers,they have fired torchas and I bet if they read this stuff they wiil send their lawiers and burn your house up,and maybe smash their ginger heads too.

1). Your not spanish so stop trying to be all 'Spanish Gangsta' and whatnot.

 

2). Game Devolopers have absolutely no intent in DYOM. So why elucidate your statements off of something completely irrelevant?

 

3). Your bumping a 1 year old topic.

 

4). You have 2 accounts which your not allowed to have. You have 'Cesar Homie' & 'Carl CJ Johnson'. I'm reporting you for that.

 

5). Your the most youngest and dumbest kid that ever landed on the DYOM forum. Congratulations.

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Carlitos_Suarez
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

You fool, he is the developer, he and Dutchy3010 created DYOM

You puto,I mean game developers,they have fired torchas and I bet if they read this stuff they wiil send their lawiers and burn your house up,and maybe smash their ginger heads too.

1). Your not spanish so stop trying to be all 'Spanish Gangsta' and whatnot.

 

2). Game Devolopers have absolutely no intent in DYOM. So why elucidate your statements off of something completely irrelevant?

 

3). Your bumping a 1 year old topic.

 

4). You have 2 accounts which your not allowed to have. You have 'Cesar Homie' & 'Carl CJ Johnson'. I'm reporting you for that.

 

5). Your the most youngest and dumbest kid that ever landed on the DYOM forum. Congratulations.

Nice,this guy is a really ass sucker,licker,anyway the mod has not copyright so anyone can open it up and make the love with dyom code,but you cant open san andreas engine and decompile any sh*t,scripts,or other stuff,so guys go to the police and declare your self guilty,ginger mans are very apreciated on texas jails

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Drift-Kingz
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

You fool, he is the developer, he and Dutchy3010 created DYOM

You puto,I mean game developers,they have fired torchas and I bet if they read this stuff they wiil send their lawiers and burn your house up,and maybe smash their ginger heads too.

1). Your not spanish so stop trying to be all 'Spanish Gangsta' and whatnot.

 

2). Game Devolopers have absolutely no intent in DYOM. So why elucidate your statements off of something completely irrelevant?

 

3). Your bumping a 1 year old topic.

 

4). You have 2 accounts which your not allowed to have. You have 'Cesar Homie' & 'Carl CJ Johnson'. I'm reporting you for that.

 

5). Your the most youngest and dumbest kid that ever landed on the DYOM forum. Congratulations.

Nice,this guy is a really ass sucker,licker,anyway the mod has not copyright so anyone can open it up and make the love with dyom code,but you cant open san andreas engine and decompile any sh*t,scripts,or other stuff,so guys go to the police and declare your self guilty,ginger mans are very apreciated on texas jails

Whoa you seriously need a doctor! It's like your 4 year old brain has turned into raw meat! Remember idiot, it's 911 not 555 that's only for the lesser idiots Kay Sweetie?

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Dritf-Kingz
We do have ideas to develop some of these things you mentioned and we would also like to keep the development of our mod in our own hands. Also I think it would have been more appropriate if you had discussed this idea with us, as the creators of the mod, first in PM's before going public with it.

Yeah,say it to developers,and they will crash your nice face

You fool, he is the developer, he and Dutchy3010 created DYOM

You puto,I mean game developers,they have fired torchas and I bet if they read this stuff they wiil send their lawiers and burn your house up,and maybe smash their ginger heads too.

1). Your not spanish so stop trying to be all 'Spanish Gangsta' and whatnot.

 

2). Game Devolopers have absolutely no intent in DYOM. So why elucidate your statements off of something completely irrelevant?

 

3). Your bumping a 1 year old topic.

 

4). You have 2 accounts which your not allowed to have. You have 'Cesar Homie' & 'Carl CJ Johnson'. I'm reporting you for that.

 

5). Your the most youngest and dumbest kid that ever landed on the DYOM forum. Congratulations.

Nice,this guy is a really ass sucker,licker,anyway the mod has not copyright so anyone can open it up and make the love with dyom code,but you cant open san andreas engine and decompile any sh*t,scripts,or other stuff,so guys go to the police and declare your self guilty,ginger mans are very apreciated on texas jails

Whoa you seriously need a doctor! It's like your 4 year old brain has turned into raw meat! Remember idiot, it's 911 not 555 that's only for the lesser idiots Kay Sweetie?

Yes I am a ass licker and so?,am a declared fa**ot and so? any problems with that?

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Drift-Kingz

Cesar Homie your such a failure... It's sad that you dont have a real life. But then again all trolls dont have real lives.

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Kratos2000
Cesar Homie your such a failure... It's sad that you dont have a real life. But then again all trolls dont have real lives.

do you suffer from split personality

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Drift-Kingz
Cesar Homie your such a failure... It's sad that you dont have a real life. But then again all trolls dont have real lives.

do you suffer from split personality

Not really tounge.gif .

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There's a lot of "BUSTED!" accounts recently in the DYOM subforums. That guy sure never gives up, isn't he?

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Kratos2000
There's a lot of "BUSTED!" accounts recently in the DYOM subforums. That guy sure never gives up, isn't he?

Bans aren't the way to get rid of trolls, I guess IP bans are alot more useful.

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Drift-Kingz
There's a lot of "BUSTED!" accounts recently in the DYOM subforums. That guy sure never gives up, isn't he?

Bans aren't the way to get rid of trolls, I guess IP bans are alot more useful.

Yeah i'm pretty sure they IP banned him. He hasnt come back to troll for a day now.

 

And the World Cup Final is on. WTF you doing here?

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Matheus Reis

Returning to the main discussion of the topic, I think that it's very interesting, I downloaded 'General Dilemma' and flipped the script 'main', as I am now learning how to codding so, did little but I edited some things and tried, it was cool, I think it would be great if we could edit DYOM files, so enabling to create more things (like campaign and etc.), making life easier for the creators of DYOM, who won't need to create so many features to the mod, making it heavier and with more bugs.

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Kratos2000
And the World Cup Final is on. WTF you doing here?

Back in the time I posted that comment, it wasn't. sarcasm.gif

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Drift-Kingz
And the World Cup Final is on. WTF you doing here?

Back in the time I posted that comment, it wasn't. sarcasm.gif

Oh you must live in different time zone sorry.

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